Reveal should be absolute in WvW.

[Kitty.4806]

There should be no way to remove the revealed condition prematurely. I was running an anti-thief build with multiple reveals, but he just kept cleansing them early and stealthing. It's not good gameplay. I'm taking traits and utilities to counter something that I ultimately can't counter with maximum sacrifice.

[kash.9213]

What skill or item are they removing the Reveal with? 

[Solo.6873]

2 hours ago, Kitty.4806 said:

There should be no way to remove the revealed condition prematurely. I was running an anti-thief build with multiple reveals, but he just kept cleansing them early and stealthing. It's not good gameplay. I'm taking traits and utilities to counter something that I ultimately can't counter with maximum sacrifice.

To my knowledge, unless the thief is hacking, they have no skill that removes revealed in WvW anymore.

But I could be wrong. A thief roach cultist will be in here to  tell us definitively. 

 

[Rakan Buuyon.8576]

Thief can't remove reveal. If you are using traps, you are marking them, not revealing them. They can go stealth for a couple seconds while marked. Reveal is absolute since the nerf to Shadow Meld.

[bq pd.2148]

are you perchance running either magebane tether or DH's Light's judment trap?

both of them pulse low duration reveals, reveals do not stack in duration but might overwrite each other.  the trait/trap might overwrite longer duration reveales from the On My Mark or spear of justice.
 

i have not yet tested but on red border with the dust around stoic it might be possible to 'cleanse' reveal by stepping in and out of it again. i just usually don't fight for too long at the edge of it.

edit:
i would like to know tho what you would consider an anti thief build with multiple reveals, there are 3 classes that can have multiple to begin with. engi, warrior and dh.

engi used to be and might still be a good counter to thief in spvp because of the lock on trait, but in wvw were you have more space and time there is little reason to get hit by an engi. if they are glassy enough to actually kill a thief in the reveal time, then they will also easily be killed by the thief and many other roamers about. if they are cele/condi/generally defensive, they will lack the burst to kill the thief in the reveal time and thus would not really be 'anti thief build'

warrior has an amazing reveal in on my mark because it has 2 charges for ~12 - 15s reveal if timed properly and that skill can not be evaded. but power warrior has the same problem as engi. if they are not glassy they wont kill the thief and if they are they will just evaporate. however condi/cele war actually has decent damage and can utilize that many SA thieves have their main condi clear tied to stealth which they can block longer than the engi, still good thief should not die to that as they will have a mobility advantage and should kite.

DH again cant be too glassy and is way too slow. at least stacked traps can maybe oneshot a thief if you surprise them with it, but i wouldn't call that anti thief, just generally a gimmick build.

Edited June 14 by bq pd.2148

[Kitty.4806]

2 hours ago, Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

Thief can't remove reveal. If you are using traps, you are marking them, not revealing them. They can go stealth for a couple seconds while marked. Reveal is absolute since the nerf to Shadow Meld.

I would agree with you if I didn't see it happen multiple times today. Just for reference, many traits in the game do things they're not supposed to do anymore.

[Codename T.2847]

2 hours ago, Kitty.4806 said:

I would agree with you if I didn't see it happen multiple times today. Just for reference, many traits in the game do things they're not supposed to do anymore.

Like? 

[Sansar.1302]

They are using a mod menu to do this, alot of players in wvw are using them ( about 5% of the wvw player base )

Edited June 14 by Sansar.1302
Missing word

[Eugenides.1274]

Link the build you were running?

[Rakan Buuyon.8576]

16 hours ago, Kitty.4806 said:

I would agree with you if I didn't see it happen multiple times today. Just for reference, many traits in the game do things they're not supposed to do anymore.

Okay but there is no legitimate way to do this. I'm by no means the best thief in the universe, and maybe, just maybe, there is some weird interaction with traits and things that has some minorly weird interaction that might be a small help for a very very very specific matchup, but I can assure you something like on demand reveal cleanse wouldn't be some ancient Chinese secret. It would be common thief knowledge, not something everyone is like "yeah that can't happen".

Thief never had a trait to cleanse reveal. It was DE elite. If there was something like this that could be done on demand it would probably be huge in PvE because of how much more damage stealth attacks do in PvE. There would be some weird thief build that just spams death judgement doing 100k DPS. That doesn't exist, so there's only one other option. 

Your build isn't as good at countering stealth as you think it is, or you aren't that good at playing it. Either the skills you are using aren't reveals, you are missing the reveals, or you are expecting reveals to last way longer than they actually do. I've been a thief since day one, and most of my hours of this game have been spent in WvW. Everyone who doesn't main thief constantly say thieves are cheating. I'd bet everything I own on this just being another case of someone fundamentally not understanding the core basics of the class if its a problem you keep running into with every thief.

Most classes just don't really have much to counter a stealth build. Tether warrior running on my mark can be scary if there is someone with burst who can burst you down in a few seconds, or lands a tether on you, but even they can miss their reveals and just be more or less a sitting target. Everything else has like one reveal, and can easily miss it, or even when they land it, simply just wait it out for a few seconds and then not have to worry about reveals anymore. 

But yeah, post your build. Let's check it out cause I have a feeling you are expecting something to work in a way that it just doesn't.

[Kitty.4806]

32 minutes ago, Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

Okay but there is no legitimate way to do this. I'm by no means the best thief in the universe, and maybe, just maybe, there is some weird interaction with traits and things that has some minorly weird interaction that might be a small help for a very very very specific matchup, but I can assure you something like on demand reveal cleanse wouldn't be some ancient Chinese secret. It would be common thief knowledge, not something everyone is like "yeah that can't happen".

Thief never had a trait to cleanse reveal. It was DE elite. If there was something like this that could be done on demand it would probably be huge in PvE because of how much more damage stealth attacks do in PvE. There would be some weird thief build that just spams death judgement doing 100k DPS. That doesn't exist, so there's only one other option. 

Your build isn't as good at countering stealth as you think it is, or you aren't that good at playing it. Either the skills you are using aren't reveals, you are missing the reveals, or you are expecting reveals to last way longer than they actually do. I've been a thief since day one, and most of my hours of this game have been spent in WvW. Everyone who doesn't main thief constantly say thieves are cheating. I'd bet everything I own on this just being another case of someone fundamentally not understanding the core basics of the class if its a problem you keep running into with every thief.

Most classes just don't really have much to counter a stealth build. Tether warrior running on my mark can be scary if there is someone with burst who can burst you down in a few seconds, or lands a tether on you, but even they can miss their reveals and just be more or less a sitting target. Everything else has like one reveal, and can easily miss it, or even when they land it, simply just wait it out for a few seconds and then not have to worry about reveals anymore. 

But yeah, post your build. Let's check it out cause I have a feeling you are expecting something to work in a way that it just doesn't.

I hear you, but I'm a warrior main of 12 years and I know what I'm doing. I know the duration of the reveals, I can see them on the enemy's condition bar, and yes, I am using revealing abilities.
 

I had a whole chat with 10 other players in WvW last night about it, and they each had a recent story of the same thing happening. There's probably an exploit or a bugged trait interaction (god knows warrior has a bunch of those, so why wouldn't thief?)

[bq pd.2148]

5 hours ago, Kitty.4806 said:

There's probably an exploit or a bugged trait interaction (god knows warrior has a bunch of those, so why wouldn't thief?)

not to my knowledge, but in that case it would be useful to know what the overlap of the thieves builds were so we can keep an eye out for weird interactions to report.
do you know perchance the traitlines they did run? or at least the elite spec and weapon?

one other thing that can cut reveal short that i didn't mention above:
stealth attacks apply reveal on hit, most stealth attacks you wont really hit while you are visible except for rifle Death's Judgement.
the skill applies reveal on cast and again on hit. if you were to apply your reveal when they pop out of stealth and then get hit by their shot, the reveal time will be cut down.

Edited June 15 by bq pd.2148

[MysteryDude.1572]

Deadeye can remove reveal with elite skill 🙄

Edited June 15 by MysteryDude.1572

[Weezy.9570]

So was it a THIEF or DEADEYE? Because core thief cannot remove stealth, but a DE can. If it wasn't a DE then it seems fishy. But if not a DE, it's a L2P issue.

Edited June 15 by Weezy.9570
Mistype

[Solo.6873]

51 minutes ago, MysteryDude.1572 said:

Deadeye can remove reveal with elite skill 🙄

Unless their is a bugged interaction with something, I just tested this...It does not remove revealed in WvW

[Eugenides.1274]

2 hours ago, MysteryDude.1572 said:

Deadeye can remove reveal with elite skill 🙄

 

1 hour ago, Weezy.9570 said:

So was it a THIEF or DEADEYE? Because core thief cannot remove stealth, but a DE can. If it wasn't a DE then it seems fishy. But if not a DE, it's a L2P issue.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld

See the February 14, 2023 patch note.

> This skill no longer removes revealed in PvP and WvW.

Without seeing Kitty's build we can't really say for sure.
They mention being a warrior so if it is "On My Mark!" revealed that they are removing, then yes. There is something fishy going on.

[Jski.6180]

We need more animations of skills landing an hit on "something" that you cant see. So aoe fields should have an trigger animations when it hits an stealth target even if its just an very short person appears for an moment with out losing stealth and not applying reveal. Unsteady Ground dose this where it will do an small animation when any one crosses it. Its a very good way to know when some one is coming your way marks and traps work the same way though they are one hit effects of the trip.

[Rakan Buuyon.8576]

12 hours ago, MysteryDude.1572 said:

Deadeye can remove reveal with elite skill 🙄

No they can't 🙄

[Solo.6873]

My advice is, if you see someone cheating them record it. OBS is free, and simple to set up. Record the player, then send the vid to anet. People have gotten way to comfortable cheating  and that needs to change.

[GrayListen.3587]

I do think there are some bugs around revealed, my one reveal (Gaze of Darkness) is supposed to be 5s, and I've revealed several thieves only to have them stealth ~1s later.  Literally just fought a deadeye, stealthed - revealed him out of stealth (had them little Gaze of Darkness eyes above him and everything), stealthed again right after.  Don't think he was cheating, this just happens regularly.  Messed around with him for a bit and my reveal just seemed inconsistent, I'd watch for it and sometimes it wouldn't last for more than 1s.

Possible bugs aside, I do think reveals should have two key changes:

• A reveal skill should apply "Reveal" when someone is not currently in stealth.  There's nothing about putting a target on someone that should require you to not be able to see them for it to take effect, and reveals in general are so exceedingly rare in this game that me being able to Reveal someone every 25 seconds will still do very little to impede them.
• Reveal skill should ignore Blindness.  Because when the enemy is stealthed... you... can't see them.  At all.  How the hell is me being blind going to impede my ability to hit an invisible target?

My one reveal is largely useless in a thief fight because it can be evaded (and thieves totally don't dodge all that often or anything), it can be blocked, it will miss if I'm blind, it only applies revealed if I'm lucky enough to guess at where the invisible target is (rather than me being able to hit it to prevent a stealth following an attack), half the time it fails to apply for the appropriate amount of time and it's on a 25s cooldown.

I'm actually not all that bothered by where thieves are at right now, all considered I think Anet's done an admirable job at allowing folks who want to feel like thieves to really play like thieves, and they're not so overwhelmingly problematic that it ruins my day.  But I do think the one counter to stealth could stand to be a bit more reliable.

[bq pd.2148]

9 hours ago, GrayListen.3587 said:

I do think there are some bugs around revealed, my one reveal (Gaze of Darkness) is supposed to be 5s, and I've revealed several thieves only to have them stealth ~1s later.  Literally just fought a deadeye, stealthed - revealed him out of stealth (had them little Gaze of Darkness eyes above him and everything), stealthed again right after. 

a while ago anet gave a visual indicator for revealed. those eyes are not tied to Gaze of Darkness, they are just the indicator for the Revealed effect, in the new spear video you can even see them at the end of the thief section, after the stealth attack.
 

9 hours ago, GrayListen.3587 said:

A reveal skill should apply "Reveal" when someone is not currently in stealth.  There's nothing about putting a target on someone that should require you to not be able to see them for it to take effect, and reveals in general are so exceedingly rare in this game that me being able to Reveal someone every 25 seconds will still do very little to impede them.

for gaze of darkness i agree. especially as its the only stunbreak on that legend, using your only stunbreak to maybe reveal a stealthed target is just very stupid.

spellbreakers sight beyond sight also works like that and should stay as it is, as they already have unavoidable skill "on my mark!" to apply revealed to visible targets.

Edited June 16 by bq pd.2148