Will you stop playing WvW with the new system?

[fantom.8427]

3 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

You don't say which T3 NA team you are on. That's a pretty uneven matchup, Abbaddon's Prison are getting absolutely hammered on both score and K/D (so I'm guessing you aren't on that team) while Tombs of Drascir presumably have some serious fight guilds as they are murdering everyone for K/D (1.96 ratio) and Domain of Torment presumably have either some very good PPTers or more likely strong OCX players to recap everything overnight as they are actually winning the score.

Would be interesting to get some feedback from all three teams on that matchup as it's a prime example of how poor the team making has been on some matches.

I am on T3 and you nailed our matchup pretty well.  Red (Abbaddon) has very little coverage.  They put up a fight a couple hours of the day but just get steamrolled the rest of the time.  I actually feel sorry for them as that cannot be fun.  Blue (ToD) is all fight guilds.  They care very little for objectives except to draw out a fight.  Green (DoT) has a pretty good balance of fight guilds and PPTers, but don't have the numbers or coordination to go against the best of blue. 

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Heh. Nice to see that gw2mists is accurate enough to draw some sensible conclusions 🙂

Unfortunately my team, Throne of Balthazar, has quite a lot in common with Abbaddon. There's been a few little victories when I've been on (winning any battle feels like a victory!) but overall it's pretty rough and there are plenty of unhappy people in chat (when you hear anything at all in chat, map chat is active at times but team chat is almost dead).

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Before with a server you could at least identify with the name as a baseline--and get a feel for what community existed at the moment. 

 

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

BG players used to always claim they had a good community when really all they had was being overstacked 24/7 by players who long ago exploited a transfer loophole so they could all be "winning".  It was called a "retirement server" jokingly for a reason.

You proved my point here, knowingly or unknowingly.  The point was that a feel existed whether negative or positive, this cannot be replicated under the new system as team names are just that. 

The identity will shift further to guilds, which seems like a hard thing for a new player to want to participate in right away.  I know it took me almost 8 years to find a WvW guild I actually like running with, the rest of time was just solo roaming.  That was possible as the server was the community so knew what personalities were usually where, and what links meant what.  

I can say that the week or so the new system has been around team chat is essentially dead outside 'X is tagging up tagging down' type messages.  No callouts, no personalities trolling, no random conversation, nothing.  Everything now exists in the vacuum of guilds, for better or worse.  

I've was on Darkhaven my entire GW2 time, btw.  

[Gotejjeken.1267]

<Duplicate>

Edited June 20 by Gotejjeken.1267

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, fantom.8427 said:

I am on T3 and you nailed our matchup pretty well.  Red (Abbaddon) has very little coverage.  They put up a fight a couple hours of the day but just get steamrolled the rest of the time.  I actually feel sorry for them as that cannot be fun.  Blue (ToD) is all fight guilds.  They care very little for objectives except to draw out a fight.  Green (DoT) has a pretty good balance of fight guilds and PPTers, but don't have the numbers or coordination to go against the best of blue. 

Popped on earlier and saw some massive Red Alliance guilds steam rolling everything. But yeah would agree they seem to have stacked too many in certain times. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

14 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I can say that the week or so the new system has been around team chat is essentially dead outside 'X is tagging up tagging down' type messages.  No callouts, no personalities trolling, no random conversation, nothing.  Everything now exists in the vacuum of guilds, for better or worse.  

I've was on Darkhaven my entire GW2 time, btw.  

This will take some time, and might again each re-sort. But agree far less banter going on. What's worse is you can see some server habits too. Made a scout report the other day and actually got asked, wait there were scouts on your server? lol I hope they were joking but since they actually came over got into the action got a thanks afterwards so they might not have been. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

BG players used to always claim they had a good community when really all they had was being overstacked 24/7 by players who long ago exploited a transfer loophole so they could all be "winning".  It was called a "retirement server" jokingly for a reason.

I think the greatest loyalty people have is winning lol.

As for overall sentiment in chat, it really boils down to world restructuring being great if we're steamrolling and it being terrible when not. That is what I've gathered and I can't really hold it against them.

That being said there were definitely people who did invest in their community and sometimes would put in the effort to help their team even above their own interests, however as time went on there tends to be a lot more takers than givers. But usually people tend to value the givers more, so one can speculate on who struggles me in these cases. (500 limit not withstanding)

Some good quizzes would probably be "name 3 commanders and 3 major scouts of the server"; something tells me not many are going to pass this.

Edited June 20 by ArchonWing.9480

[Zok.4956]

11 hours ago, Yolaus Kriff.3465 said:

I've played on several different servers, and the guild has moved with me. I didn't enjoy the communities of some of them. 1 died when several guilds transferred off. Nothing about those communities was worth saving, or even enjoyable in my opinion. Nothing was left that 'has grown over a long time', and it really was just a name for me at that point.

Just because you haven't made friends with any server community and have changed servers several times doesn't mean that there aren't any good server communities (or more precisely: that there weren't any). 

 

[Ronin.4501]

How am I supposed to reply to this when you're asking 2 different questions.

Do I see longevity here? 

For my guild, yes.

Will you stop playing WvW under the new system?

No.

How am I supposed to respond to this poll when 1 answer is yes and 1 answer is no? Needless to say, I didn't respond at all.

 

[Zok.4956]

8 hours ago, fantom.8427 said:

I am on T3 and you nailed our matchup pretty well.  Red (Abbaddon) has very little coverage.  They put up a fight a couple hours of the day but just get steamrolled the rest of the time.  I actually feel sorry for them as that cannot be fun.  Blue (ToD) is all fight guilds.  They care very little for objectives except to draw out a fight.  Green (DoT) has a pretty good balance of fight guilds and PPTers, but don't have the numbers or coordination to go against the best of blue. 

I'm in the same matchup. Red does have the Abaddon (only one "b", please 😉 ) server alliance community guild, organized with TS (well... 😎 ) and Discord but then it seems there is only one other com (using a different discord) that is using discord-voice, sometimes. Everyone else seems to be unorganized randoms or single player guilds without any voice coordination or public com that are just killfeeding blue and green and don't read chat. The map/team chat is mostly in English, with a little bit of German and Spanish. I haven't seen French or other languages yet.

Blue seems to be well organized and can deliver good fights when they are not absent and red is not absent. Green seems to consist more of clouds and small ganker groups that target individual players and want to farm players. 

It's a very strange line-up. I have never seen so many disorganized and inexperienced players (when there were linkings) on my server.

 

Edited June 20 by Zok.4956

[Morvran.8265]

1 hour ago, Zok.4956 said:

Just because you haven't made friends with any server community and have changed servers several times doesn't mean that there aren't any good server communities (or more precisely: that there weren't any). 

 

That's generally the vibe I'm getting from WR supporters in these threads.

"I didn't like my server community so everyone else should lose theirs"

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I think the greatest loyalty people have is winning lol.

I would counter this, but knowing you this isn't targeted at me, so will send a /wave instead, Good hunting!

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Just because you haven't made friends with any server community and have changed servers several times doesn't mean that there aren't any good server communities (or more precisely: that there weren't any). 

 

This is a pretty fair ball.

[TheGrimm.5624]

13 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

You don't say which T3 NA team you are on. That's a pretty uneven matchup, Abbaddon's Prison are getting absolutely hammered on both score and K/D (so I'm guessing you aren't on that team) while Tombs of Drascir presumably have some serious fight guilds as they are murdering everyone for K/D (1.96 ratio) and Domain of Torment presumably have either some very good PPTers or more likely strong OCX players to recap everything overnight as they are actually winning the score.

Would be interesting to get some feedback from all three teams on that matchup as it's a prime example of how poor the team making has been on some matches.

So what I am seeing is sides stacking a time zone and then losing when they didn't consider a 24x7 game. On  top of that is initial placements. So its a bit gray.

 

 

[Zok.4956]

19 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

So what I am seeing is sides stacking a time zone and then losing when they didn't consider a 24x7 game. On  top of that is initial placements. So its a bit gray.

An alliance/guild can stack up to a certain prime time / time zone, but an entire server cannot normally plan this in advance - unless Anet's server composition does exactly that. The fact that the players adapt after the initial composition and change their playing times, or stay away altogether, is only a consequence of the initial server composition. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

An alliance/guild can stack up to a certain prime time / time zone, but an entire server cannot normally plan this in advance - unless Anet's server composition does exactly that. The fact that the players adapt after the initial composition and change their playing times, or stay away altogether, is only a consequence of the initial server composition. 

Time of play should be a factor in sorts, been one of those that have been touching on when they open discussions on the topic. They said they were adding, did they? Not sure since we didn't get a more detailed post pre this launch.

Edited June 20 by TheGrimm.5624
spelling

[Zok.4956]

25 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Time of play should be a factor in sorts, been one of those that have been touching on when they open discussions on the topic. They said they were adding, did they? Not sure since we didn't get a more detailed post pre this launch.

Yes, at first only activity (play time in WvW) was to be taken into account. Later, it was planned that language, times of day/week, commander coverage, etc. would also be taken into account. If I remember correctly, a post with details was planned before the final WR introduction - but I haven't seen it yet. 

 

[Chaba.5410]

15 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

The point was that a feel existed whether negative or positive,

My point was that the "feel" was an illusion all along.  This "feel" is the result of subsets of players.

You mentioned Dragonbrand.  Do you recall when Expandas got a bandwagon going on it (before server links)?  He heard too many times from others that the problem with "losing" servers was they didn't have "good" communities (which he later called a sardonic joke).  So he went about and did just that.  Do you recall the outcome?  DB had a nice "feel" which got toxic with the bandwagoners.  Yea, it changed that fast.  Then DB hit up against the T2 wall and some commanders quit.  The nice part of DB probably continued playing after the server's population imploded.  Make note here that these groups that made the nice "feel" and the groups that made the toxic "feel" weren't enough to fill up an entire server on their own.  Who knows if they would even be able to fill an entire 500 man alliance guild today?
 

16 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

this cannot be replicated under the new system as team names are just that. 

The identity will shift further to guilds, which seems like a hard thing for a new player to want to participate in right away.

Somewhat contradictory statements.  It is replicated through the use of an alliance guild.  Old servers like BG that started out overstacked are going to have a hard time simply because the sheer numbers of players who transferred there for the community (easy wins) exceeds 500 players.  Also, new players wouldn't know any server "feels" so why would it be harder than before for them?  They still have to perform due diligence.

16 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I know it took me almost 8 years to find a WvW guild I actually like running with, the rest of time was just solo roaming.  That was possible as the server was the community so knew what personalities were usually where, and what links meant what. 

Now players have a wider variety of options pulled from the entire playerbase rather than the lower number of options on individual servers.  And they don't have to spend any gems to try these options out and find their subset.  Find your subset.

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Ronin.4501 said:

How am I supposed to reply to this when you're asking 2 different questions.

Do I see longevity here? 

For my guild, yes.

Will you stop playing WvW under the new system?

No.

How am I supposed to respond to this poll when 1 answer is yes and 1 answer is no? Needless to say, I didn't respond at all.

 

The OP did need a 'we are waiting and will see' option.

[Ronin.4501]

22 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

You don't say which T3 NA team you are on. That's a pretty uneven matchup, Abbaddon's Prison are getting absolutely hammered on both score and K/D (so I'm guessing you aren't on that team) while Tombs of Drascir presumably have some serious fight guilds as they are murdering everyone for K/D (1.96 ratio) and Domain of Torment presumably have either some very good PPTers or more likely strong OCX players to recap everything overnight as they are actually winning the score.

Would be interesting to get some feedback from all three teams on that matchup as it's a prime example of how poor the team making has been on some matches.

I'm on Tombs of Drascir as a member of the PAN guild, and you're exactly right. We consist almost entirely of fight/havoc guilds that cover NA/SEA/OCX (we have no EU coverage but who does?) and do very little ppting unless we think it's going to get us a fight. But we're having a lot of fun. Some nights we're running under the alliance guild tag with one commander and a mix of alliance members, other nights we split up and do guild runs separately. The only two issues we're having are 1) getting everyone together on a map as we generally have queues on every map during NA time and 2) finding good content to fight. Abbadon's Prison only seems to have 1-2 large guilds and Domain of Torment has several, but when we encounter Domain of Torment their large guilds are almost always running together as one large blob and sometimes we just don't have the numbers to match (often due to queues preventing everyone from getting on the same map).

But I think another week or two of the servers/shards sorting themselves out and the content should vastly improve.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Somewhat contradictory statements.  It is replicated through the use of an alliance guild.  Old servers like BG that started out overstacked are going to have a hard time simply because the sheer numbers of players who transferred there for the community (easy wins) exceeds 500 players.  Also, new players wouldn't know any server "feels" so why would it be harder than before for them?  They still have to perform due diligence.

You want to replicate an entire server through one alliance guild? Remember we cannot pick what guilds form teams, so at the moment these team names are nothing but entropy. 

I'd disagree about the amount of chaos transfers cause as well, BG, Mag, and DB were always known for specific things the entire time I can remember WvW.  BG liked to stack, and people transferred there as they had the most pop, Mag liked to troll, eventually just devolving into SMC trolling, and DB was never taken seriously and always a bottom of t4 server that no one wanted to get linked with and that attracted some interesting personalities.  

Now, can you tell me what Moogaloo, or First Haven, or whatever is like? That's my point on new players--they could figure out if the server they randomly selected at account creation fit with how they wanted to play WvW, and if not, transfer.  Now even if they find a guild they like there's no guarantee the RNG gods are going to put them with guilds they actually want to play with.  

[Chaba.5410]

3 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You want to replicate an entire server through one alliance guild?

I didn't say that.  You were referring to "feel", as if it can't be replicated.  Then I used DB to illustrate how subsets of servers create "feels".

[Chaba.5410]

10 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Now even if they find a guild they like there's no guarantee the RNG gods are going to put them with guilds they actually want to play with. 

That doesn't make sense.  When guilds want to play together with other certain guilds, they create an alliance guild.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

34 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

I didn't say that.  You were referring to "feel", as if it can't be replicated.  Then I used DB to illustrate how subsets of servers create "feels".

Long running subsets; you will agree that transfers helped create this feel and that cannot be replicated now? You must choose a guild to represent and are locked to it for duration...transfer could happen anytime with specific penalties.

27 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

That doesn't make sense.  When guilds want to play together with other certain guilds, they create an alliance guild.

Not at large scale--this only works up to 500 players.  That was the point, you can't represent a server with a guild of 500 and you can't choose what alliances to create a team (multiple guilds of 500). 

To put it another way, no guarantee if I create a darkhaven community guild that RNG won't link me with leftover mag troll guilds--these are the 'other guilds' I'm speaking of, as you can't win a match across all timezones with one 500 guild. 

Now, if you could choose multiple darkhaven or whatever community guilds to ally into an actual team, it would make way more sense to me.  

[Chaba.5410]

4 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Not at large scale--this only works up to 500 players.  That was the point, you can't represent a server with a guild of 500 and you can't choose what alliances to create a team (multiple guilds of 500).

Look at all the complaints about "alliance stacking".  Large-scale exacerbates problems with the game mode.  IMHO it's good that it's not large scale.  The size of chunks to be placed on teams directly sets the tone for mitigation of those problems.