Another set of weapons, another set of disappointments

[vardeleanu.8972]

First of all, 1200 range at most on every spear. It's funny how ranger can keep stealing things like ambushes and stealth attacks from other classes but the 1500 range is so vehemently gatekept to the light green class. It's especially infuriating how they kept mentioning it during the elementalist part, as if it was some kind of reward that we finally get a "good" ranged weapon, as if it's not their fault staff is absolute cold garbage, ,hammer and pistol are placeholder weapons that literally nobody asked for, and conjures were buried in the backyard when nobody was looking. After having 3 expansions to develop a proper elementalist weapon, I'd expect more then single target 1200 range auto attack when ranger can get 1500 range piercing attacks. The fire auto attack doesn't even have burning, kitten. Not even going to touch on how it's supposed to be a dps weapon but the shortest cooldown fire field is 20 seconds, how are we supposed to keep up Persisting Flames with that ? I really expected more. The work of the art team was insane, but the work of the skill design team was the usual .

Next, warrior : the class whose ENTIRE THING is strength. That's warriors identity, they literally have nothing else than being a strong and somewhat tanky meat shield for other classes, doing big non-magical damage, and being a weapon master that brings the best non-magical aspect out of any weapon. That's their fantasy.

So doesn't it make sense that the class that whose identity is being strong weapon master should throw the spear further than, I don't know, ANYONE ELSE ? In fact, warrior spear is such a letdown that I think it speaks for itself more than anything I can say here, and it's definitely not the fault of the art team, who has once again shown that they are always getting better and it's only a matter of actually paying them to make new animations for once. It's the fault of the skill design team playing favorites again. 

Since this post started with talking about ranger gatekeeping range, let's return to that for a second : no ranged stealth attack for theif ? really ?

Ranger gets 4 options of stealth attacks, and thief gets only 1 for 2 auto attacks. Amazing. Which one of those was the assassin class anyway ? I know it's a primary melee weapon, but it just feels lazy that the normal attack has 2 forms and the stealth doesn't. Even if the ranged stealth attack would have been weaker, something that hits only once for 1/3 the conditions and damage of the melee stealth attack, it's still would have been better than getting nothing because my stealth ran out while running after my target. 

While on the topic of thief spear auto attack, I'll also mention the only complaint I have with the art for the new set of spears : Why do theifs spin their spears in melee range ? It's a spear, and we're a quick agile assassin class, just poke your target with the kitten thing. The spin worked on staff because dardevil led itself to the monk type fighter, but having a theif SPIN a spear doesn't fit thematically, is impractical (how doesn't the spear break ?  impracticality might be a recurring theme for theif with tactical strike and pistol whip, but those came out 12 years ago) and overall makes no sense. Pls replace it with a quick jab animation from the spear from one of the other classes, or the warrior sword 3 animation at least.

Also, why is revenant spear so slow ? It's aoe focused, it's a pve weapon anyway, it being so slow just makes it feel bad to use. And revenants already have 2 condition oriented sets, with torment being their choice of condition, so I think this weapon will land nicely right next to engineer shortbow in the "why would I ever use this" drawer.

That's all I had to say, since those are the classes I play and those things stuck out to me, but I can't say I'm looking forward to the weapon beta considering the preview and the history of (lack of) adjustments according to beta feedback.

Edited June 24 by vardeleanu.8972

[Dean Calaway.9718]

2 hours ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

the 1500 range is so vehemently gatekept to the light green class

Other classes got it too, nerf them!

2 hours ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

ranger can get 1500 range piercing attacks

I know, it's great, in a lot of world bosses you can target the far leg and hit both plus the head at the same time.

2 hours ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

Ranger gets 4 options of stealth attacks, and thief gets only 1 for 2 auto attacks. Amazing.

Now we just need perma stealth in WvW.

[vardeleanu.8972]

15 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Other classes got it too, nerf them!

What other classes ? deadeye that has to give up movement for it, or engineer that has the clunkiest ranged weapon known to man that's mainly used in melee for support anyway ?

15 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

I know, it's great, in a lot of world bosses you can target the far leg and hit both plus the head at the same time.

True, it's a bit too strong, we should just remove ranger longbow entirely instead of trying to balance other classes around 1500 range. Seems like an easy and quick fix 😄

15 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Now we just need perma stealth in WvW.

Oh, my bad, thought ranger already had that, since druids seem to have permanent stealth PvP already  

Edited June 24 by vardeleanu.8972

[Dean Calaway.9718]

8 minutes ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

druids seem to have permanent stealth PvP

Druids are played by people who read their horoscope and drink kombucha, we don't count them as Rangers.

[Supernova Starr.2069]

It wasn't mentioned, but guardian spear looks bad as well

My hype for this expac was butchered

[Nash.2681]

Won't join the rant, it's too early for that. What I'd really like to know is the purpose of spears. It's unclear to me wether they are more like a gimmick we have to use in JW to get certain mechanics done, but are more or less irrelevant outside of that? Or are they ment to be a full 2-handed alternative to existing weapons on par with them and ought to be viable across the board? 

[Mungo Zen.9364]

55 minutes ago, Nash.2681 said:

Won't join the rant, it's too early for that. What I'd really like to know is the purpose of spears. It's unclear to me wether they are more like a gimmick we have to use in JW to get certain mechanics done, but are more or less irrelevant outside of that? Or are they ment to be a full 2-handed alternative to existing weapons on par with them and ought to be viable across the board? 

They are intended to be fully realized weapons that will compete with or replace existing weapon sets for some eSpecs.

They will hit the mark with some I am sure, but this is like the last round of new weapons for professions, some are not going to be viable in multiple game modes and with multiple eSpecs.  Most likely Spear gets pigeonholed into a single build/eSpec/game mode for most professions.

[Atoclone.4810]

On 6/24/2024 at 3:06 PM, vardeleanu.8972 said:

, ,hammer and pistol are placeholder weapons that literally nobody asked for

I love the drama on this, yeah I presume you didn't want pistol, and yeah it was a bit of a damp squib but there were quite a few people who wanted it.

 

And to be fair, after a few months I've decided I quite like it. Of course the animations have been completely phoned in, the sound design is still terrible and the bullets can be awkward to keep track of but it's definitely getting used. Hammer hasvits faults too but it's an interesting concept and pretty comfortable to play.

 

But yeah, literally no one asked for them...

[vardeleanu.8972]

4 minutes ago, Atoclone.4810 said:

were quite a few people who wanted it.

I remember the new weapon polls, and at the top were longbow and double pistol. If we were to get only 1 pistol it could have at least been a ranged offhand to go with scepter, since we still don't have one of those, but nope

Edited June 25 by vardeleanu.8972

[Atoclone.4810]

2 minutes ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

I remember the new weapon polls, and at the top were longbow and double pistol. If we were to get only 1 pistol it could have at least been a ranged offhand to go with scepter, since we still don't have one of those, but nope

BUT LITRALLY NOONE ASKED FUR IT

I can understand that it takes longer to do a 1 hander for ele compared to other classes but i really wanted to be a dual wielding arcane gunslinger. Personally i think thats a lot more interesting than an arcane archer

[StraightPath.3972]

At this point as a warrior I'm just happy they didn't rework Rifle to be used as a club with 130 range..
No ranged stealth attack on spear that has ranged autos? MIND BLOWN..
I really want to make a thief tbh, that's a bit of salty news for me ...


 

[Juka.9103]

Comment removed edited

Edited June 25 by Juka.9103
Comment was not beneficial

[draxynnic.3719]

I can recognise envy over 1500 range skills, but I don't think spears thrown by hand was really the time you'd expect to see them pop out a weapon that outranged most bows and firearms in the game.

[vardeleanu.8972]

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I can recognise envy over 1500 range skills, but I don't think spears thrown by hand was really the time you'd expect to see them pop out a weapon that outranged most bows and firearms in the game.

You would, if the person throwing it was all muscle. Also the warrior spears are based on the sunspears of Elona, who chose them for some reason over bows. So either the desert people never heard of a longbow, or there must be some benefit to using a full ranged spear like warrior has.

They could have at least given the burst and berserk burst skills 1500 range  like deadeye has on death judgment : the rifle stealth attack has 1500 range even when not kneeling and all the other skills have 1200 range.

[draxynnic.3719]

The Sunspears had the spear as their symbol, but they were a diverse group in GW1 which had archers as well. Spear-throwers were also a common skirmisher type which coincided with bows for a long time despite having shorter range, due to advantages such as being able to use a shield and generally being more mobile. And warbows pretty much require being "all muscle" to use effectively as it is (English longbowmen can actually be identified from their skeletons due to how much strength they needed to develop), so no, you're not going to get someone throwing a spear further than someone similarly physically adept with a suitable bow.

[Beddo.1907]

If warrior can throw a spear so hard, it turns into a frag grenade, they can throw at 1500 range.

[Purple Effects.2503]

20 hours ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

You would, if the person throwing it was all muscle. Also the warrior spears are based on the sunspears of Elona, who chose them for some reason over bows. So either the desert people never heard of a longbow, or there must be some benefit to using a full ranged spear like warrior has

They wouldn’t of wielded like a warrior, 

why? Because you can only throw a spear once, lol. That’s just factual I’m afraid. The likelihood the spear was popular was because its melee offensive ability, ease of building and having ranged capability, and without the requirement of ammunition could be carried along side swords when it had been expended. 

longbows are cool, but they’re also resource intensive, something people under siege wouldn’t of been able to afford. 

so spears were the go to. 

the way warrior uses spear simply doesn’t make sense, because a all ranged spear doesn’t make sense. But it works that way for gameplay reasons. I.E Anet wanted you to have a ranged power weapon.

also, as draxy said above, the spear was the logo, not the deterministic weapon of choice. 

spearman would also want to be closer then max range. As they’d have to recover the spear, running 1500 yards into combat to get it would be insane. 

Edited June 27 by Magmi.6723

[Purple Effects.2503]

1 hour ago, Beddo.1907 said:

If warrior can throw a spear so hard, it turns into a frag grenade, they can throw at 1500 range.

Or maybe the tips just laced with shrapnel explosives to begin with.

canach is a warrior who utilises explosives. 

and u got gunblade lol 

[Dadnir.5038]

On 6/25/2024 at 8:43 PM, StraightPath.3972 said:

At this point as a warrior I'm just happy they didn't rework Rifle to be used as a club with 130 range..

It migth have been good...

1 hour ago, Beddo.1907 said:

If warrior can throw a spear so hard, it turns into a frag grenade, they can throw at 1500 range.

Well, they can make spears rain on top of the head of their foes for a few seconds... If that's not "magical" then nothing on the other professions spear skills is.

 

All in all, I'll say that I agree with the op that spears are disappointing but for different reasons. 😉

My first reason is that most of those spears aren't even close to give anything needed to the professions that will receive them. (The irony being that the poorly received warrior spear is the closest out of the 9 spears to provide it's profession with something it need. In this case it's ranged aoe gameplay)

My second reason would be that we got many mechanics in game that aren't even close to be properly exploited despite being thematically fitting for some professions and yet the devs find in themselves to adds more new mechanics that are bound to lack support from traits or gear.

My third and last reason is that the devs live in another world where they can just use cheat codes to make a weapon look like it's performing well.

[Purple Effects.2503]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

y first reason is that most of those spears aren't even close to give anything needed to the professions that will receive them. (The irony being that the poorly received warrior spear is the closest out of the 9 spears to provide it's profession with something it need. In this case it's ranged aoe gameplay

Dunno Mesmer spear gives the class access to cleave, which it hasn’t had much of anything at all in regards to, 

otherwise eh, I don’t think stand alone weapons should be aimed to cover something the professions needed, Soto tried this and it really didn’t work out well for them. I just don’t think a singular weapon has enough cogs to turn to make functional if the current existing builds can’t support it, unless smaller alike this, such as giving a melee class more ranged options. 

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Magmi.6723 said:

Dunno Mesmer spear gives the class access to cleave,

I'm sure both mesmer's sword and axe cleave, thought. Dagger and greatsword pierce. Staff have a bouncing attack (which something that's becoming pretty rare in the game). Scepter and riffle are single target.

What mesmers have always drooled over are damaging skillsets with a lot of area of effect, something that riffle would have fulfilled if the power budget of the weapon wasn't so heavily invested in support. Cleave? They've long had access to that.

1 hour ago, Magmi.6723 said:

I don’t think stand alone weapons should be aimed to cover something the professions needed

Look, I'm not overly greedy.

Elementalist and Engineer deserve the AA that have skills for both range and melee. That is what those 2 professions "need".

Necromancer "need" a melee condi weapon, not something that let him top the dps meter, just something that can compete on equal ground with scepter and pistol. 

Warrior "need" 1 or 2 MH ranged weapon. Something that can be paired with off hand sword to allow him to kite efficiently.

Thief need OH weapons. Anything, really. Just to be able to experience something else than dagger and pistol off-hand. I'm not an avid thief player but I'm sick of this OH choice.

Those example are what I mean by "need". ANd I don't think it would be outrageous to offer such things to those professions.

[Purple Effects.2503]

43 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Elementalist and Engineer deserve the AA that have skills for both range and melee. That is what those 2 professions "need

I can agree with that. 

44 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Necromancer "need" a melee condi weapon, not something that let him top the dps meter, just something that can compete on equal ground with scepter and pistol

When there’s no ranged vs melee balancing, melee is pointless with all the ranged condi weapons. 

we needed a ranged power weapon, that’d hold a far greater improvement especially with how kite centric we are in spvp environments 

45 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Warrior "need" 1 or 2 MH ranged weapon. Something that can be paired with off hand sword to allow him to kite efficiently.

Thief need OH weapons. Anything, really. Just to be able to experience something else than dagger and pistol off-hand. I'm not an avid thief player but I'm sick of this OH choice

Tbh we knew this was gonna be spear, although sure woulda been cool if warriors unique spear thing was it to be 1handed. 

 

[vardeleanu.8972]

8 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

so no, you're not going to get someone throwing a spear further than someone similarly physically adept with a suitable bow.

I see, so a moa tamer is "similarly physically adept" to a warrior/solider/berserker now. lmao. It still makes no sense that the warrior spear and longbow have the same range, one should be longer than the other. good lore tho

Edited June 27 by vardeleanu.8972

[vardeleanu.8972]

3 hours ago, Magmi.6723 said:

Dunno Mesmer spear gives the class access to cleave, which it hasn’t had much of anything at all in regards to, 

Staff mirage and sword/focus or dagger/focus chrono have plenty of cleave, not to mention that mesmer's core mechanic is pretty much huge aoe cleave, with  clones exploding everywhere. Honestly I have no idea where this mesmer has no cleave so we can use spear for that now idea comes from. Sounds like cope to make the spear seem like it was needed.

Edited June 27 by vardeleanu.8972

[Purple Effects.2503]

1 hour ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

Staff mirage and sword/focus or dagger/focus chrono have plenty of cleave, not to mention that mesmer's core mechanic is pretty much huge aoe cleave, with  clones exploding everywhere. Honestly I have no idea where this mesmer has no cleave so we can use spear for that now idea comes from. Sounds like cope to make the spear seem like it was needed.

We don’t need to. 

we already have Anet stating they intend to make boon power mirage a thing with spear, which is something that doesn’t exist or is available right now. 

there’s no need to cope, because trig already stated this lol if anything g it was ironically the only weapon that got announcement like this 

staff is a condi weapon, spear is a power weapon, so I don’t understand the relation there.

main hand sword / focus, isn’t used in competitive pve builds. So pretty irrelevant also.  
 

shatters are great, however aren’t very good for a lot of situations where monsters die super fast due to the requirement of CDs and also not being immediately available 

I don’t get why absolutely everything in the game must only ever be absolutely needed lol,  classes don’t need to do absolutely everything.  Every class can already do so much lol it’s gonna have to overlap at some point 

Edited June 27 by Magmi.6723