Will Mirage be better than Chrono in any situation?

[FaboBabo.3581]

@Esplen.3940 said:

@Daharahj.1325 said:Something for you guys to keep in mind; Firebrand has access to perma-quickness for the group and Renegade now has alacrity. Chrono's niche is being taken away.

For that reason alone Mirage might see more play in PvE, and let's get this misconception out of the way: Chrono does not, in any way shape or form, have more sustained condition damage than Mirage. The math doesn't add up.

What.

What.

What.

You'd trade 2 Supports (2 Chrono) for 4 Supports (2 Firebrand, 2 Renegade)? You do know the current "meta" only has 4 DPS slots, and you want to shunt that down to 2?

Also,

Core Mesmer

is the sustained Condi Damage spec, and it has relatively equal output as Mirage.

Sidenote:Firebrand perma quickness is reliant on a way to bypass the ICD of a trait.Renegade perma alacrity relies on a strict Kalla-Ventari Energy rotation meaning you have low to no damage output. It also may not actually reach 100% uptime.

Id say firebrand is a dps spec which still gives 100% quickness + mirrage dps is significantly higher then mesmer, so we dont loose 2 dps folks

[Esplen.3940]

@FaboBabo.3581 said:Id say firebrand is a dps spec which still gives 100% quickness + mirrage dps is significantly higher then mesmer, so we dont loose 2 dps folks

You can say that, but you still have to trade players in your squad. You don't magically get more slots for players because new elite specs came out.You have 10 slots.The current Raid meta is:2 Druid - Heal/Buff Support (Spotter, Frost Spirit, Sun Spirit, Glyph of Empowerment, Grace of the Land | Occasionally Nature Spirit, Protect Me)2 cPS - Boon Support (25 Might, Empowering Aura, Banner of Strength, Banner of Discipline)2 Chrono - Boon/Buff Support (Permanent Alacrity, Quickness, 1000 Breakbar Damage | Occasionally AoE Pulls, Tank)4 DPS - Damages

What you're suggesting is to change that to:2 Druid - Heal/Buff Support2 cPS - Boon Support2 Firebrand - Boon Support2 Renegade - Buff Support2 DPS - Damages

You don't magically get to keep your Chronos as they switch to Mirage. Mirage doesn't magically add copious amounts of damage. Mirage adds small damage buffs to pure melee gameplay, but it offers significant survivability options for shatter Mesmer. However, you don't want to bring a Shatter Mesmer in Raids because they fall off after the start of the fight (atypical to Mesmer ramp times).

For Firebrand, if you convert a standard DH build, you lose out on 10%, 7%, and 10% damage buffs, as well as 3 Traps which add a large amount of damage (notably Procession of Blades hitting around 12% +/-5% of your total DPS).What you gain is: 1 less Utility Slot (Forced to run Stand Your Ground), 250 Condition Damage (Imbued Haste), and a Condi Weapon (negating most of your % damage buffs from Core Guardian). Yes, it is possible to run a Burn Guardian, and it does have the utility slot to trade for SYG, but it also greatly benefits from 4 Lines (yes, 4, you already are hardpressed on which lines you want as a Core/DH Guardian). Also something to note is that Burn Guardian heavily relies on RNG for it's burn output, due to Symbolic Power.

This also assumes that the SYG + Stalwart Speed interaction doesn't get patched due to it completely bypassing the ICD.

[etiolate.9185]

Nope and that's a huge problem.

Early testing on the raid dps is underwhelming as well. It should be a tiny bump in dps, but I am not sure if its significant enough to make it viable. The dps buff really relies on dodging and your access to more dodges are dependent upon food/buffs more than your build. You give up a ton of group support for middling dps.

Mirage is terrible in WvW. It can only run old power shatter with some new gimmick, but I'm not sure its worth taking over the other shatter builds. Running anything without condi clear is death in WvW and Mirage power shatter falls under that unfortunate distinction.

Mirage in PvP is going to be a condi gank or power shatter gank so it's a matter of whether its worth taking over baseline or chrono versions of the same thing. Considering hybrid Condi Chrono can actually hold a point for a tiny bit and is far better in group fights then I doubt it becomes meta there.

They addressed some issues with the update before release (I was shocked Infinite Horizon was not made baseline though.) but I don't think ANet understands how misguided and useless Mirage is as a concept. They need to find its niche and maximize it, then go back to the drawing board to make a better elite spec for the next time around. As in, an elite spec that actually offers new styles of play for Mesmer. Mirage is Mesmer but wonky. Chrono is Mesmer but better at everything Mesmer does. There's still not been an elite Mesmer spec that feels like a new way of playing Mesmer.

By the end of the expansion cycle, Mirage will either be reworked entirely or have its condi dps buffed a large amount and then left untouched as they work on something better.

[Levetty.1279]

Well I'll check in every patch to see what they are doing but I wouldn't hold your breath about Mirage getting better. Anet absolutely hates to admit when they make a mistake so even if they do realise the mess they have made with Mirage I doubt they will change it. Hopefully next elite they will actually put effort in and listen to our feedback.

[Unknown.3976]

Did some PvE testing, Power Mirage is totally not viable (for PvE at least). If u're playing power mes, just stick with chrono or core mes, mirage is just a waste of a traitline. Ambush skills are too weak for power builds, dps output is pathetically low, it's not even a sidegrade but more of a downgrade.

[atlashugged.7642]

I'm enjoying it in PvP so far. It seems like a great upgrade to normal power chrono shatter, and might have some potential as a condition build too.

[musu.9205]

answer for this is no , a big one

[TheOneWhoSighs.7513]

1vX fights in WvW due to the amount of evasion and mobility it has.

Outside of that? Not really.

[Hlord.5940]

Staff ambush skill is pretty much a melee range skill, don't expect to hit any thing further than 400 range, the projectile is too slow.

At first I felt like jaunt is good at first but then I use blink and save my elite slot for something far more useful, plus blink has 1200 range with a cooldown of 30 sec, untraited! While jaunt has max range of 1350 and a cooldown of 60 sec!

At lease axe teleport is better than sword and is a condi weapon but the rest are bad, such as axe 3: you have to teleport then perform an attack not teleport and attack, guardian sword skill 2 and 3 combo is way better. The final insult is when I compared mesmer axe auto with warrior sword auto and you can see this gap different in damage and condition duration. Also axe ambush skill have this delay thingy too, don't know why I have to wait for the skill to hit in melee range.

Actually if you want to play a better mirage you just use chrono and put blink in your utility bar and there you have it, a better mirage than the real mirage.

[Leonhardt.8164]

chrono use to be so beastly in pvp, but they decided to nerf it down, mirage is just plain crap from the start