No more gimmick weapons for ele

[ippy.9048]

I see. I understand a bit of what you're saying now. However, please remember that not everyone plays just to achieve the highest possible damage efficiency.

It sounds like "time spent not using #5 is wasted time." Playing with that kind of obsession, I understand your point, but it seems that this does not align with the design concept. If developers intended for such rotations to always be in mind, would they set the durations so that you would have to stack utility skills to achieve it?

In short, it's not designed to always complete a perfect rotation.

The timing of using #5 is designed for players to figure out for themselves.

[rwknoll.7824]

6 hours ago, ippy.9048 said:

I am not an expert player, but from my understanding, the difficulty levels are clearly distinguished among the magic classes. The Necromancer is the easiest and most casual. Therefore, I think it's perfectly fine that you can deal a lot of damage by just pressing 1 repeatedly.

A game absolutely needs to have easy classes.

There should be variation among the classes in play style and difficulty, but higher skill ceilings and class complexity should be awarded with some kind of benefit. An easy to play build should have a lower DPS ceiling or some other limit. Elementalist shouldn’t be harder to play just for the sake of having harder classes. 

[TYTan.5246]

7 hours ago, ippy.9048 said:

Excuse me, but I think the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist might not be the right fit for you. Did you know that the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is a class concept where you play by pressing keys busily and constantly swapping elements?

It's like saying "I'm going to die because this shortcake is too sweet!" while looking at a shortcake.

Unfortunately, the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is not the same as a mage in other games. Please keep that in mind. Furthermore, the Black Mage in FF14 is even more different.

 

ELEMENTALIST IS NEVER WIZARD.

 

please note it.

I´m sorry but that doent make sence.

Thats why Anet intorduced the Specializations concept, so it can radically change the Class, look how thief with Specter is totally diferent, look how mesmer with Rifle as a totally different playstyle, how Necromancer with Reaper is "just" press shroud and kill all but with the Scourg is more tatical.

Then you get Elementalist where no matter the Spec is allways "Spam all your skills the faster you can and also besides the 20 skills you have to press to have the same effect has a necros pressing 2 skills, you have this funny mechanic where you need to press the same skill 4 times to make full use of its potential, isnt if funny?"

 

Edited June 30 by TYTan.5246

[ippy.9048]

It is unfortunate to see people spamming like you do.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

So the weapon is designed for cat-golem, I get it.

[Sarm.5923]

20 minutes ago, ippy.9048 said:

I see. I understand a bit of what you're saying now. However, please remember that not everyone plays just to achieve the highest possible damage efficiency.

It sounds like "time spent not using #5 is wasted time." Playing with that kind of obsession, I understand your point, but it seems that this does not align with the design concept. If developers intended for such rotations to always be in mind, would they set the durations so that you would have to stack utility skills to achieve it?

I feel like I'm getting mixed messages from your posts because previously, you expressed worry that people were going to make the elementalist class dumbed down and taking away the skill factor, yet you feel that the intent of spear is to promote poor play by not effectively using its abilities.

I don't think it's obsession, but expected gameplay. Throwing out some example numbers here but if one ability is responsible for half of your damage despite a 20 second cooldown, but you only use it every 25 seconds, then you've immediately nerfed your own damage by 10% (20 / 25 = .8 or 80%, half of that is 40%, the other half of your damage is 50% + that 40%). If you then fail half of your etchings because you can't get them out in time, that 40% becomes 20% and thus you're doing 30% worse than someone playing the same setup properly.

One might hope Anet wouldn't balance around perfect performance but everything I've heard suggests they do; it's why basically the only positive thing anybody can say about pistols is that they do good damage when attacking a sterile target dummy. And everybody not playing at that level suffers from a subpar experience.

[draxynnic.3719]

15 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

im okay with gimmicks, it gives new weapons a unique feel/playstyle instead of being a core weapon 2.0. what im not okay with is when the same gimmick is on every. single. attunement. and then you begin to wonder if theres still an actual weapon behind the gimmick

pve hammer is too centered on the grand finale loop while every other skill are simply filler skills and additionally made purposely weak due to the offensive orb bonuses being too strong

the gimmick on pistol takes over every skill in its kit and then most of them are just shooting some form of a projectile at a foe

spear is too centered on the etchings and could honestly be repuposed into an offhand in its current state. #3 being mostly nonskills additionally limits the filler space between etchings (leaving autoattack and #2). you could probably combine just the etchings with some existing mainhand weapons and end up with a more cohesive kit

I think that is one of the big problems with the gimmicks - it basically turns all of the attunements into different variations of "play with the gimmick", as opposed to the original design of elementalist where each attunement is supposed to have a very different playstyle and sometimes role.

15 hours ago, ippy.9048 said:

Excuse me, but I think the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist might not be the right fit for you. Did you know that the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is a class concept where you play by pressing keys busily and constantly swapping elements?

It's like saying "I'm going to die because this shortcake is too sweet!" while looking at a shortcake.

Unfortunately, the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is not the same as a mage in other games. Please keep that in mind. Furthermore, the Black Mage in FF14 is even more different.

 

ELEMENTALIST IS NEVER WIZARD.

 

please note it.

Except that those of us who remember elementalist as it was advertised before release know that this was not how it was supposed to be.

Attunement swapping wasn't marketed as "elementalist is a high APM profession that rewards playing your skillbar like a piano". Instead, the theme was adaptability. Each attunement was supposed to have its own traits within a given weapon, and you swapped attunements based on what you needed at the time. You can still see a summary of this on the Elementalist page on the main sight, and echoes of this in the original weapons. Earth and water are normally more defensive, fire and air normally more offensive. Within those confines, they still have different profiles. For sceptre, fire is the more AoE-focused offensive attunement, while air was more single-target. For staff, fire was, again, the more AoE-oriented option, but before staff air was powercrept out of existence, there was a degree to which fire was the go-to AoE option for clumped foes, while chain lightning is an effective tool when enemies are more spread apart, especially if you could get it to chain back and forth between two enemies. Dagger flips the script with fire projecting to a greater distance but only striking a relatively narrow cone, while air has shorter range but hits everything in a wide area.

A lot of this has been lost in practice as balancing has pushed more and more towards rotating attunements for more use of high-power cooldown skills as opposed to the original paradigm where autoattacking was supposed to be a practical option if you only cared about damage and cooldown skills had more tactical functions than simply being buttons you pressed to push a number up. I'm not sure if we can ever realistically go back to that, but the point remains: what we have now is not what elementalist was supposed to be. In that context, people who were actually drawn to the original concept have a right to feel like they've been bait-and-switched, and to be discontent as the design and balancing seems to push more and more in the "just cycle through 3-4 attunements that all feel the same" direction. 

8 hours ago, ippy.9048 said:

It is unfortunate to see people spamming like you do.

There's a bug in the forum software where occasionally it posts and doesn't update the poster to inform them that the post has been successfully made, causing the poster to press submit again, possibly multiple times, thinking that their post hasn't been posted. When you see multiple identical posts in a row, that's most likely what happened.

Forum bug aside, though, they have a point. Elite specialisations are/were the opportunity to make everyone here happy. Have an elite specialisation that rewards rapid cycling, and one that can fit in the box you're labelling "WIZARD". What we have, though, are two elite specialisations that reward rapid cycling (although in Weaver's case it's often just back and forth between two elements) and tempest which rewards sticking in one attunement long enough to overload and then switching, while also being melee focused which is not what a lot of people think with elementalist.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

1) Every classes are hitting 40-50k DPS with Spear and full boon (+weapon swap for some, sure), they sell you "glass cannon" spear for elementalist, yet you struggle like always to reach 37K, worse than staff and dagger. 
2) So now you forget quickness alacrity might, you forget punch ball, you have a range weapon with elementalist light armor low HP running in OW/PvP; and someone says you Spear isn't made to complete the designed gimmick and rotation ? You don't have the DPS, but you don't have the gameplay either ?
Stunning. You're glass cannon, but actually the cannon is lame and you can't use it anyway.

What is it for, then ?  Just draw big circles on the floor to kitten off other players ? Abuse beta bugs in WvW ?

You get trapped by visually apealling spear, but all elements have the same skills working as fillers for the same big aoe gimmick,  and you can't actually use the gimmick smoothly.
This is really sad *and not fun.

 

Edited July 1 by Zhaid Zhem.6508
and not fun !

[zeyeti.8347]

21 hours ago, ippy.9048 said:

In my opinion, if you're seeking simplicity, you should play other classes in Guild Wars 2. That's why the classes are divided. You should change your class according to your playstyle.

"It's like saying, 'Make the class fit my playstyle!' Isn't that a bit greedy?"

if this complexity was rewarded it would be okay , but it's not , ele is not number one dps , is not number one healer and is not number one support , but is largely one of the more complex core class of the game and adding elite specs whith more lairs of complexity to an already complex class should be rewarded , but there is no rewards at all.

With this weird concept of locking the dps not above X for any class how could you endorse playing something squishy and complex while you could play something easy and beefee for a better result because it's simplier. Numvbers don't lie , the class who is the least played in pve endgame is whole ele , except for this patch cause ele healers are finally given the opportunity to give fury without spequing to air , something any other healer could do with 1 skill ! ... will see in 1 month ...

[Markus.6415]

7 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

1) Every classes are hitting 40-50k DPS with Spear and full boon (+weapon swap for some, sure), they sell you "glass cannon" spear for elementalist, yet you struggle like always to reach 37K, worse than staff and dagger. 
2) So now you forget quickness alacrity might, you forget punch ball, you have a range weapon with elementalist light armor low HP running in OW/PvP; and someone says you Spear isn't made to complete the designed gimmick and rotation ? You don't have the DPS, but you don't have the gameplay either ?
Stunning. You're glass cannon, but actually the cannon is lame and you can't use it anyway.

What is it for, then ?  Just draw big circles on the floor to kitten off other players ? Abuse beta bugs in WvW ?

You get trapped by visually apealling spear, but all elements have the same skills working as fillers for the same big aoe gimmick,  and you can't actually use the gimmick smoothly.
This is really sad *and not fun.

 

Don't hang yourself over the dps numbers in a weapon beta. It's clearly not the final state and theres enough data for Anet available now, that they have to increase the damage drastically. I actually enjoyed playing with the spear a lot. It still feels great despite the flaws we have pointed out already and I'm positive that it will be better at launch.

[TIM.3064]

Hey you hammer/dagger cata/temp crutchers want to share the love with the other half of the profession? Scepter hasn't left the couch in a couple of months, weaver is on life support, and I think core is sticking their head into a microwave oven.

 

Also I can't find non heal-piggy staff mains anywhere, and last I saw he was wearing a leather coat and listening to pumped up kicks so I'm a bit concerned.

 

Also apparently spear might be on the spectrum so be nice.

Edited July 1 by TIM.3064

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

2 hours ago, Markus.6415 said:

Don't hang yourself over the dps numbers in a weapon beta. It's clearly not the final state and theres enough data for Anet available now, that they have to increase the damage drastically. I actually enjoyed playing with the spear a lot. It still feels great despite the flaws we have pointed out already and I'm positive that it will be better at launch.

I agree it is still "beta" and we can expect some changes. But when you see the status of elem, pistol and spear, What changes can be expected ?

They laid land Spear probably thinking "should be correct" and advertising "Glass cannon" when obviously it has serious issues.  This isn't like they forgot a comma, or didn't see an exploit.
I can't believe a developper had played elementalist with sword, dagger, scepter...  then coded landspearwith  the same AA , #2 and #3 on every elements without noticing any problem.
Or tried it few minutes in OW, pvp, and expressed "Glass Cannon". Or he said "Glass", but marketing team insisted on embellishing the thing.

I'm not even mad, I play weaver in WvW, sometimes PvP, I made peace with it.
But I am amazed and perplexed Anet keep sinking into denial.

[Markus.6415]

1 hour ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

I agree it is still "beta" and we can expect some changes. But when you see the status of elem, pistol and spear, What changes can be expected ?

They laid land Spear probably thinking "should be correct" and advertising "Glass cannon" when obviously it has serious issues.  This isn't like they forgot a comma, or didn't see an exploit.
I can't believe a developper had played elementalist with sword, dagger, scepter...  then coded landspearwith  the same AA , #2 and #3 on every elements without noticing any problem.
Or tried it few minutes in OW, pvp, and expressed "Glass Cannon". Or he said "Glass", but marketing team insisted on embellishing the thing.

I'm not even mad, I play weaver in WvW, sometimes PvP, I made peace with it.
But I am amazed and perplexed Anet keep sinking into denial.

Maybe the spear skills just aren't your type of coffee the? I don't understand whats so glaringly bad about it for you. I honestly like how it turned out. 

And dear god I was wishing anet will never release another weapon to ele after I saw the total crap pile wich is the pistol. There has never been a more disgustingly lazy and problametic skilldesign in my opinion.

Maybe its because im speaking from a pure PvE point of view and (wich i can understand) the huge frustration comes from the competitive modes. Build up of the etchings must be terrible for the fast paced combat.

[Artemis.8034]

On 6/30/2024 at 9:31 AM, ippy.9048 said:

ELEMENTALIST IS NEVER WIZARD.

No its a shaman!

[ippy.9048]

While I understand the opinion that there is a lack of skill diversity, personally, I like the current focus almost entirely on offense. My main dissatisfaction is that the final skill of #5 seems a bit weak. In reality, the fire #5 deals considerable damage. However, only the fire #5 can truly be called an ultimate move. The others are not as strong, so it might be better to use other skills instead of going out of your way to set up these skills.

 

Well, influenced by a certain manga, I do like close-combat mages, so I love the hammer as well. But the spear is really good.