Don't remove duoQ

[Endo.1652]

Could do like a 6v6 mode thats all for duo queues (cause to fill that 5th slot someone would have to queue solo in a duo q whuch doesnt make sense) while only uses the largest pvp maps along with a couple new ones that could be designed, and then also keep the 5v5 mode for pure solo queue.

[notamain.2839]

8 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Why should I have to Q as a duo to be remotely effective as a support?

Because you need someone to do dmg and focus the right targets in a tf. If your pugs are bad and tank everything or cant kill the enemy, you are useless as a support. 

If you fight a 3v3, for example you(support) + 2 random pugs (that are not able to kill the enemy), you cant do anything to carry them. You cant outheal all the damage and they will die eventually. If you are a good support you will be able to disengage, but its still a loss atp. 

But when you play a dps instead of a support in the same scenario fight. You have the chance to carry those pugs. 

Now if you would duoQ with support and tf dps, and you both have a good synergy and comnunication. You could literally win this 2v3. 

 

8 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

with people fighting off points

FiGhT oN nOdE!11!!!!1 (sorry i had to do it lol)

Edited August 11 by notamain.2839

[Zekent.3652]

1 hour ago, notamain.2839 said:

10 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

with people fighting off points

FiGhT oN nOdE!11!!!!1 (sorry i had to do it lol)

The node in question: 3 necro staff marks, 2 traps, 5 power AoEs, pulsating blinds

[notamain.2839]

30 minutes ago, Zekent.3652 said:

The node in question: 3 necro staff marks, 2 traps, 5 power AoEs, pulsating blinds

Meanwhile dps downstate on node: "Support youre so bad, heal me wtf!!!!!!!!"

[maxwelgm.4315]

The 3v3 (fiasco) mAT heavily weights on favor of @jdawgie.1835's proposal of having a 2v2 and 3v3 queue. After watching the matches in fact I actually warmed up to the idea myself and would probably join a 3v3 ranked group if that was a thing. I still think DuoQ is a bad compromise for both parties, but aside from Anet's messing the whole thing up with months to prepare, the turnover was excellent in the AT and there is clearly a meaningful group of people who would actively partake in a 3v3/2v2 leaderboard - I mean, it's not even hard to still allow people to take the risk of SoloQ to fill on such a mode, knowing fully that it is explicitly meant for premades, while having an actual SoloQ for people who just want the pips and the ranked aspect of 5v5 conquest (in lack of a properly premade 5v5 queue that I don't see being implemented after 10 years).

I don't think it's a good justification to say that it's just people complaining about their low rank on the SoloQ though. The people who complain actively want to improve the mode because they enjoy the gameplay, not everything has to be seen as bad faith - in fact a lot of the people wanting the DuoQ to stay also want the game mode to improve, they're not advocating for no changes whatsoever most of the time. Lack of communication by Anet might be true culprit here as we are left to fend of for ourselves and do a lot of guesswork as to what is going on half of the time.

[Flowki.7194]

8 hours ago, notamain.2839 said:

Because you need someone to do dmg and focus the right targets in a tf. If your pugs are bad and tank everything or cant kill the enemy, you are useless as a support. 

If you fight a 3v3, for example you(support) + 2 random pugs (that are not able to kill the enemy), you cant do anything to carry them. You cant outheal all the damage and they will die eventually. If you are a good support you will be able to disengage, but its still a loss atp. 

But when you play a dps instead of a support in the same scenario fight. You have the chance to carry those pugs. 

Now if you would duoQ with support and tf dps, and you both have a good synergy and comnunication. You could literally win this 2v3. 

 

FiGhT oN nOdE!11!!!!1 (sorry i had to do it lol)

The problem is not "need somebody to do damage" The problem and fix is to reduce the MMR range so that ALL 4 of my team mates, every single game, are around the same skill level.. so that I am not supporting low gold dps vs high gold/plat dps, as you hinted.

 

Or let me put it this way, if DPS had very low healing/mitigation/utility, and were not viable unless duo Q with a devent support.. people would sharp change there attitude on MMR (to get similar skilled solo supports on there team). The players left in this game are mostly DPS, since support is so unplayable.. leading to this echo chamber where more importance is placed on dps than support. This litterally makes people dismissive to the fact that supports should be viable to Q solo, just like roamers, and that the wide MMR is the direct reason for this.

 

 

Edited August 11 by Flowki.7194

[notamain.2839]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The problem and fix is to reduce the MMR range so that ALL 4 of my team mates, every single game, are around the same skill level

The algorithm tries to do exactly this, but because of a incredible low population it does not work (especially during off hours and higher rating). The only fix for that would be to bring in new players so matchmaking will work again. If you reduce the MMR range you would increase the Q time of every player drastically to a point where people would sit in Q for hours since it would not be possible to find 10 plat players at 10 am. People will not deal with this, you can already see this when pvp streamers get to the a 10 mins Q time. They literally will alt + f4 and go do something else. 

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The players left in this game are mostly DPS, since support is so unplayable

Support is not unplayable. There are maps/comps where a team with support will heavily win vs a team without support. But again in ranked, where its basically a not organized clown fiesta, a DPS will always be a better option to carry matches. DPS can get fast kills, kills get map pressure and map pressure wins objectives. 

[Flowki.7194]

3 minutes ago, notamain.2839 said:

The algorithm tries to do exactly this, but because of a incredible low population it does not work (especially during off hours and higher rating). The only fix for that would be to bring in new players so matchmaking will work again. If you reduce the MMR range you would increase the Q time of every player drastically to a point where people would sit in Q for hours since it would not be possible to find 10 plat players at 10 am. People will not deal with this, you can already see this when pvp streamers get to the a 10 mins Q time. They literally will alt + f4 and go do something else. 

Support is not unplayable. There are maps/comps where a team with support will heavily win vs a team without support. But again in ranked, where its basically a not organized clown fiesta, a DPS will always be a better option to carry matches. DPS can get fast kills, kills get map pressure and map pressure wins objectives. 

The algorythm works fine for gold, the pop handles it.  Plats get thrown in becuase they would rather farm low golds than wait for equally matched games.

 

Solo support doesnt work, you know it, I know it, and support representation backs it up. Anybody arguing against that are just trying to argue, or have never played support long enough to see how bad it is with a low gold + plat dps mix.

Edited August 11 by Flowki.7194

[notamain.2839]

12 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Plats get thrown in becuase they would rather farm low golds than wait for equally matched games.

Its the same for low silvers getting thrown into gold matches. Again people would rather not play the game than spending 10+mins in a Q. Locking MMR would mean that even more people will not play ranked and the situation will get worse and worse.

 

12 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Solo support doesnt work, you know it, I know it, and support representation backs it up. Anybody arguing against that are just trying to argue, or have never played support long enough to see how bad it is with a low gold + plat dps mix.

Support works in solo q. There is less carry potential with support and sometimes a match would be a win if you would play a dps instead of a support.

 

Edit: especially in lower gold matches, support can hard carry, because people are bad at dealing damage and most supports can throw alot of healing very easily

Edited August 11 by notamain.2839

[Flowki.7194]

4 hours ago, notamain.2839 said:

Its the same for low silvers getting thrown into gold matches. Again people would rather not play the game than spending 10+mins in a Q. Locking MMR would mean that even more people will not play ranked and the situation will get worse and worse.

 

Support works in solo q. There is less carry potential with support and sometimes a match would be a win if you would play a dps instead of a support.

 

Edit: especially in lower gold matches, support can hard carry, because people are bad at dealing damage and most supports can throw alot of healing very easily

Most of the playerbase are silver/gold, they would not be +10 min queing on peak. Fairer games would increase sPVP playerbase, or do you think being farmed by players twise as good at the game is a good business plan for player retention?

[Last Crab.6054]

5 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Most of the playerbase are silver/gold, they would not be +10 min queing on peak. Fairer games would increase sPVP playerbase, or do you think being farmed by players twise as good at the game is a good business plan for player retention?

most of the duo lords are actually -200 the rating they obtain when solo, which is why NONE of them participated in the solo q past 1600, they couldn't make it there.

[notamain.2839]

9 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Most of the playerbase are silver/gold, they would not be +10 min queing on peak

They already get close to that which is really bad. Ive also looked a bit into reddit and I saw people ask why they are in Q for 5 mins (in other games). People dont wanna spend that time waiting and they already start complaining once reaching like 5 mins Q times. Thats why the matchmaker does not lock the MMR rating, so people are able to play in a considerable "short" Q time. If you like that or not, thats the only reason this game is still playable. 

I recently made a test run of throwing 10 placement matches to see how the games are at lower silver. Turns out that I get 6-8 mins Q time. You can that be if you say there are so many players?

9 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Fairer games would increase sPVP playerbase, or do you think being farmed by players twise as good at the game is a good business plan for player retention?

You also need to understand that there are way more of the bad players than those who are insanely better. The probability of a new player getting vs a top plat player/duo is super low. It happens but its not like you get vs them 10x in a row. And honestly they dont even understand whats going on or why they might die so fast.

Fairer games would not increase pvp playerbase. Maybe 7-8 years ago there was a high population with fair and balanced matches. People quit the game cuz Anet does not give a single kitten about this mode. Like look at the latest 3v3 tournament. Do you think a new player watching this on twitch would think: "Woah this looks so fun, Im gonna try pvp!". They stop playing pvp before they even got to the point of getting farmed by a plat tryhard.

 

If you would lock MMR and silver/gold Q times would be the same, but plat player would be literally unable to Q. What would you think would happen?

Yeah, plat players would make gold alts to be able to Q again. Meaning silver/gold players will now get farmed by plat players on gold accounts, instead of plat players on plat accounts. 

 

Edited August 12 by notamain.2839

[Supernova Starr.2069]

On 8/10/2024 at 4:41 PM, notamain.2839 said:

never change a running system

I bet if they try to remove it, they would destroy entire pvp system lol

So it's a win-win for everyone

[notamain.2839]

21 minutes ago, Supernova Starr.2069 said:

So it's a win-win for everyone

If you dislike pvp so much that you want it to be gone, theres a solution. Hit the pvp menu and press leave Hotm.

[Saiyan.1704]

On 8/10/2024 at 3:41 PM, notamain.2839 said:

never change a running system

I bet if they try to remove it, they would destroy entire pvp system lol

To be fair the algorithm works better if every single person was solo. The 1% of players would rage but that doesn't effect the majority of pvp players.

Also the individuals who are consistently in the top 25 with 250 games played and only 10 losses, will still manage to get into top 25 because they can still do what they have always done 😉

I'm not voting to remove duoQ... I think most people already know where I stand about it.

[notamain.2839]

2 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Also the individuals who are consistently in the top 25 with 250 games played and only 10 losses, will still manage to get into top 25 because they can still do what they have always done

So people want duoQ removed because there are some players who abuse it to get top ranked titles and ruin the pvp experience for everyone. Now you tell me that they still gonna do it, so people still gonna suffer because of it. Whats the point of removing duoQ then?

[arazoth.7290]

7 minutes ago, notamain.2839 said:

So people want duoQ removed because there are some players who abuse it to get top ranked titles and ruin the pvp experience for everyone. Now you tell me that they still gonna do it, so people still gonna suffer because of it. Whats the point of removing duoQ then?

more chance for them to fail because no duo partner can be extra set up

[notamain.2839]

Just now, arazoth.7290 said:

more chance for them to fail because no duo partner can be extra set up

It is easier to wintrade with soloQ.

[arazoth.7290]

2 minutes ago, notamain.2839 said:

It is easier to wintrade with soloQ.

explain, because this looks now some desperate attempt to defend duo queue

[notamain.2839]

11 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

explain, because this looks now some desperate attempt to defend duo queue

You would need 3 players in a basic setup. One of the accounts is the one getting boosted. What you wanna do now is simply snipe that account. Wintrading isnt all about winning matches, but more importanly about not losing rating in matches that cant be won. Thats possible if one of the accounts gets on the boosted accounts team and simply dc's. Not losing rating is important because it will mostlikely be something like -50 while a win just give 1-3 rating. Accounts that get on the enemy team gonna throw and accounts getting on your team simply tryhard then.

Now with duoQ the boosted account would still lose rating when dc'ing. Theres also a bunch of top players who will start sniping the cheaters once they get caught. Sniping a duo is way easier then sniping someone soloQ. 

The only reason duoQ is used to get titles is because of silver Q'ing. That means you would duo with an account that is super low rated which will give you worse enemies and better teammates in general. Combine that with Q'ing off hours and every plat 1 player can get to 1900 rating with 95% winrates because you will just fight bots (not actual bots but insane bad players). Thats why restricting the rating difference when duoQ'ing is one of the most important changes, Anet needs to address.

 

Edited August 12 by notamain.2839

[arazoth.7290]

27 minutes ago, notamain.2839 said:

You would need 3 players in a basic setup. One of the accounts is the one getting boosted. What you wanna do now is simply snipe that account. Wintrading isnt all about winning matches, but more importanly about not losing rating in matches that cant be won. Thats possible if one of the accounts gets on the boosted accounts team and simply dc's. Not losing rating is important because it will mostlikely be something like -50 while a win just give 1-3 rating. Accounts that get on the enemy team gonna throw and accounts getting on your team simply tryhard then.

Now with duoQ the boosted account would still lose rating when dc'ing. Theres also a bunch of top players who will start sniping the cheaters once they get caught. Sniping a duo is way easier then sniping someone soloQ. 

The only reason duoQ is used to get titles is because of silver Q'ing. That means you would duo with an account that is super low rated which will give you worse enemies and better teammates in general. Combine that with Q'ing off hours and every plat 1 player can get to 1900 rating with 95% winrates because you will just fight bots (not actual bots but insane bad players). Thats why restricting the rating difference when duoQ'ing is one of the most important changes, Anet needs to address.

 

well rating/titles will forever stay a joke/meaningless I guess 

[notamain.2839]

1 minute ago, arazoth.7290 said:

well rating/titles will forever stay a joke/meaningless I guess

Yeah

So why take away the option that the average player could have fun playing with a friend just to punish a handfull of players (while at the end it wouldnt even punish them).

[arazoth.7290]

Just now, notamain.2839 said:

Yeah

So why take away the option that the average player could have fun playing with a friend just to punish a handfull of players (while at the end it wouldnt even punish them).

yeaa, well I am at this point idc about rating anymore. 

And also too bad I will never be able to join weekly tourney because of weird timing it starts..., I do like my extra rewards 🥲

[notamain.2839]

1 minute ago, arazoth.7290 said:

yeaa, well I am at this point idc about rating anymore

Most of them do this to sell the accounts for money, so they dont need to get a job. Am I right @Zyn?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

22 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Most of the playerbase are silver/gold, they would not be +10 min queing on peak. Fairer games would increase sPVP playerbase, or do you think being farmed by players twise as good at the game is a good business plan for player retention?

You can just say you want anyone in plat and above to have to wait 30 mins to an hour to get an all plat game or decay back into gold and get one curbstomp match. They won't do that though. 

Quote

plat players would make gold alts to be able to Q again. Meaning silver/gold players will now get farmed by plat players on gold accounts, instead of plat players on plat accounts. 

they'll smurf or throw to de rank.

Your solution can't be excluding parts of the community from being able to play the game, especially if that exclusion is based on being competent. 

Like I said in other threads, the best way to approach this is to say "plat and above cant duo", then pit the handful of plat players against each other on gold teams.

It doesnt have to be all or nothing.  If the plat players are good enough to earn that on their own merit, they will play matches vs other plat players of similar rating to climb leaderboard.

Forcing them to not play (or into a queue no sane person with a life would wait in) is short sighted at best and makes wintrading easier at worst, because now plat duos will be able to control precisely what opponents they get (only plat players), which may make team sabotage more effective. 

Since everyone's mostly in gold, just disallowing queue duo for plat would let mmr function properly. If two plat players are in the pool? Congrats, one on each team.  If one? They get one or two lower mmr golds, higher mmr gold on the other team. Three? One waits 5 more mins.

Edited August 12 by Azure The Heartless.3261