the Janthir maps are majestic.

[ugrakarma.9416]

The long era of deserts in GW2 seems finally gone(Silverwastes/LS2, POF, LS4). Also GW2 seems jinxed by deserts, whenever a desert xpac/ls come its have content drought or "change of direction" after.

Janthir wilds have a predominante temperate like climate/vegetation, and storms!!

i'm addicted to storm ambience videos:

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

I'd honestly rather deal with the content drought than have them release unfinished content full of bugs, copy/paste, no QC, and content dead zones like Janthir Syntri.  I think it would have been so much better to wait longer to get a second, quality map on the level of Lowland Shore than release Janthir Syntri in the state it's in and, if the past is any guide, will now remain in forever.

[Gehenna.3625]

I love Kodan Lowlands and Syntri may look nice but it's a terrible map besides that. Tomorrow I'll have the hearts maxed out and then I'll probably avoid that map unless I really have to be there to get something I need. 

Edited September 1 by Gehenna.3625

[PyaKura.4895]

It's funny how I really liked SotO's first map, just like I love Lowland Shore, but both Amnytas and Syntri feel really undercooked in comparison, both in terms of game loop and mood/ambiance. Amnytas lacks points of interest (and I don't mean the gameplay POIs) with everything looking really same-ish. Syntri kind of suffers from the same issue. Sure, we have a bloodstone crater and cave, and the wasteland in north west (which to me is already way better than whatever Amnytas was), but there's barely anything of note around both of those areas. Despite Skywatch being really heavy on asset recycling, each island was its own POI with its own story, and it was really cool sticking around to learn more about them. Same with Lowland Shore, all of the areas are very unique and I felt compelled to stick around to see what was going on in the village, the forest, the tundra, the hotsprings, the fishing village... where the NPCs and the environment work hand in hand to immerse the player in each of the areas.

I know Syntri is supposed to be a wasteland of sorts, but I don't think that's a good enough excuse for how barebones it is. If the goal is to explore, then make us actually explore alongside parties of Kodan and Astral Ward NPCs, set up camp near ruins, have us study them, collect artifacts, question ghosts to learn more about the area, defend camps from the oddly aggressive wildlife, etc... there's so much potential to make the map feel alive. As it stands, Syntri is a pretty decent looking map, but I don't know what the point of it is. We're barely scratching the surface in the story, but I don't really feel like the open world builds on top of what we're shown/told, unlike most other expansion/LWS maps.

I know it's not that simple and there's a reason they've moved to one release a year, but I feel like another year to do some polish would make those second maps way better, on top of giving the more invested players more replayable content.

Edited September 1 by PyaKura.4895

[AliamRationem.5172]

53 minutes ago, PyaKura.4895 said:

It's funny how I really liked SotO's first map, just like I love Lowland Shore, but both Amnytas and Syntri feel really undercooked in comparison, both in terms of game loop and mood/ambiance. Amnytas lacks points of interest (and I don't mean the gameplay POIs) with everything looking really same-ish. Syntri kind of suffers from the same issue. Sure, we have a bloodstone crater and cave, and the wasteland in north west (which to me is already way better than whatever Amnytas was), but there's barely anything of note around both of those areas. Despite Skywatch being really heavy on asset recycling, each island was its own POI with its own story, and it was really cool sticking around to learn more about them. Same with Lowland Shore, all of the areas are very unique and I felt compelled to stick around to see what was going on in the village, the forest, the tundra, the hotsprings, the fishing village... where the NPCs and the environment work hand in hand to immerse the player in each of the areas.

I know Syntri is supposed to be a wasteland of sorts, but I don't think that's a good enough excuse for how barebones it is. If the goal is to explore, then make us actually explore alongside parties of Kodan and Astral Ward NPCs, set up camp near ruins, have us study them, collect artifacts, question ghosts to learn more about the area, defend camps from the oddly aggressive wildlife, etc... there's so much potential to make the map feel alive. As it stands, Syntri is a pretty decent looking map, but I don't know what the point of it is. We're barely scratching the surface in the story, but I don't really feel like the open world builds on top of what we're shown/told, unlike most other expansion/LWS maps.

I know it's not that simple and there's a reason they've moved to one release a year, but I feel like another year to do some polish would make those second maps way better, on top of giving the more invested players more replayable content.

It's especially noticeable this time around because Lowland Shore is so good.  Everybody I've talked to is really thrilled with this map, which is saying something because I feel there was a lot of skepticism regarding the lack of a meta.  I love the map.  My only concern is long-term will that lack of a meta be an issue?  Are the unique materials and fun events going to be enough that I want to come back?  Grothmar Valley was similar.  Fun events.  No meta.  But on replayability I just don't feel much need to go back there after doing 50-something achievements!

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Maybe Anet have different design teams working on the first and second maps of the expansion? The A team does the first map and B team does the second map?

People do improve with experience and practice - so hopefully if this pure speculation on my part is the case then the "B team" are learning as much as they can from what the A team are doing!

[Gehenna.3625]

4 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

Maybe Anet have different design teams working on the first and second maps of the expansion? The A team does the first map and B team does the second map?

People do improve with experience and practice - so hopefully if this pure speculation on my part is the case then the "B team" are learning as much as they can from what the A team are doing!

This could very well be true. You can tell that different teams did the LW maps as well. At the same time, I doubt that the story was written by two different teams and I feel that once you get into Syntri the story also goes downhill, so I dunno 🤷‍♂️

[Futa.4375]

The new maps look nice but everything about them is very shallow and most of my friends are already back to their usual routine or another game.
Also, Syntri looks very undercooked meaning they are, once again, unable to deliver even with the new content cycle.
They're quite clearly working on something else anyway.

[PyaKura.4895]

Doubt there's a thing such as an A and B teams with such disparate skill levels. It just doesn't make sense in a game dev environment. Junior and senior devs work together in all roles. It's much more likely to be the usual culprits: lack of time, and/or lack of devs.

[Gehenna.3625]

18 minutes ago, PyaKura.4895 said:

Doubt there's a thing such as an A and B teams with such disparate skill levels. It just doesn't make sense in a game dev environment. Junior and senior devs work together in all roles. It's much more likely to be the usual culprits: lack of time, and/or lack of devs.

Yeah it wouldn't be like an A-team and a B-team, though I'm convinced there were different teams working on different maps during the Living World times. But I wonder if this is still the case. I agree with you that it's more likely that it's the lack of time because of a hard deadline.

It got me wondering about what Anet said when they said that the first map wouldn't have a meta and then the expansion came out and we learned that the second map also didn't have a meta, but just a twin world boss fight. That got me thinking that perhaps there was a meta planned that culminated in those two boss fights but that it was scrapped due to it not being ready on time. 

[Zok.4956]

54 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Yeah it wouldn't be like an A-team and a B-team, though I'm convinced there were different teams working on different maps during the Living World times.

Yes, during the LW period (at least one season) there were, according to Anet, several teams (I think three) that each worked on one episode. Otherwise the short release times would not have been possible back then. 

[Manpag.6421]

8 hours ago, PyaKura.4895 said:

It's much more likely to be the usual culprits: lack of time, and/or lack of devs.

In this case, it feels to me more like same brief, different interpretation, no communication between teams. "Make a map with 3 repeatable hearts and 4 adventures. Try to showcase the new warclaw abilities where you can, you can give renown tokens as event rewards."

Team A: "Right, well, this is the first map in the expansion, so let's go very vertical to really showcase how warclaw moves, with chilled activities because Kodan live here. Players aren't gonna want to grind the hearts too much, so let's make them progress relatively quickly and be quite liberal with the renown tokens. Let's also make the warclaw run really varied, and structure it like the skyscale target practice adventures."

Team B: "We don't want expansion content to be too easy. Those hearts are repeatable and tied to achievements, so the more we can eke them out, the more populated these maps are going to stay for a while. Renown tokens should be pretty rare, else people will just skip the hearts. Do people care about adventures much? I guess they were in the brief, so we need to put them in, but I don't think we should waste much time on them."

Ambiance-wise, Janthir Syntri is my favourite map of the two so far. It lives up to Janthir's fearsome reputation, it has plenty of lore tucked away in its tragic, blood-soaked history, and yet is also extremely beautiful. I actually love just sitting there listening to the rain, looking out through the mist. Lowland Shore is chill, has amazing verticality, and some really fun new mechanics with the waterfalls, but that makes cache hunting a lot more effortful than in Janthir Syntri. The adventures there feel a lot more diverse and inspired, though that also means some of them are a lot more frustrating (looking at you, salmon run), while Syntri's adventures are generally easier but more boring.

[Sugar Min.5834]

On 9/1/2024 at 10:15 PM, ugrakarma.9416 said:

The long era of deserts in GW2 seems finally gone(Silverwastes/LS2, POF, LS4). Also GW2 seems jinxed by deserts, whenever a desert xpac/ls come its have content drought or "change of direction" after.

Janthir wilds have a predominante temperate like climate/vegetation, and storms!!

i'm addicted to storm ambience videos:

 

Hi. Where is Sea Sounds? I couldn't find it 🙁

Edited September 2 by Sugar Min.5834

[ugrakarma.9416]

On 9/1/2024 at 12:49 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'd honestly rather deal with the content drought than have them release unfinished content full of bugs, copy/paste, no QC, and content dead zones like Janthir Syntri.  I think it would have been so much better to wait longer to get a second, quality map on the level of Lowland Shore than release Janthir Syntri in the state it's in and, if the past is any guide, will now remain in forever.

Janthir Syntri is perfect as it is, in concept isn't a copy paste of what we already have.

The variety of map is another gem of GW2, and "imperfect" maps are welcome.

would make no sense a very dangerous zone like Janthir Syntri be heavy populous and filled like the "bear nation".

[ugrakarma.9416]

50 minutes ago, Sugar Min.5834 said:

Hi. Where is Sea Sounds? I couldn't find it 🙁

in the video? theres some wave-like sound.

[Manpag.6421]

12 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

Janthir Syntri is perfect as it is, in concept isn't a copy paste of what we already have.

I agree that the map itself is perfect as it is, I do think that event timing/heart contribution needs some numerical tweaks to ease the frustration, nothing drastic.

[Sugar Min.5834]

20 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

in the video? theres some wave-like sound.

🤨 The way you put it in your first post sounds like there is a location in Janthir Wilds named Sea Sounds....

[Gaiawolf.8261]

On 9/1/2024 at 8:05 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's especially noticeable this time around because Lowland Shore is so good.  Everybody I've talked to is really thrilled with this map, which is saying something because I feel there was a lot of skepticism regarding the lack of a meta.  I love the map.  My only concern is long-term will that lack of a meta be an issue?  Are the unique materials and fun events going to be enough that I want to come back?  Grothmar Valley was similar.  Fun events.  No meta.  But on replayability I just don't feel much need to go back there after doing 50-something achievements!

You don't go back for regular METAL LEGION concerts? WTF!

[Sugar Min.5834]

On 9/1/2024 at 11:49 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'd honestly rather deal with the content drought than have them release unfinished content full of bugs, copy/paste, no QC, and content dead zones like Janthir Syntri.  I think it would have been so much better to wait longer to get a second, quality map on the level of Lowland Shore than release Janthir Syntri in the state it's in and, if the past is any guide, will now remain in forever.

100% this. idk seems like ANet has been rushing to release xpacs since SotO. A lot of bugs and unpolished work. Take the Wintersday Gift Tree as one of the many examples of rushed work. First that tree, among others, is missing in our homestead. When they finally give it to us, it's rushed work too, they can't even do a decent job of putting it straight up 😑 All of the tree ornaments are hanging in the air. And, Wisteria cat's bloodstone node is not with her anymore. I know these are trivial matters but too many of them and they add up. There is a topic somewhere on the bugs, glitches and missing stuffs in our homestead somewhere. Still more than half of them is not fixed despite having a few follow patches. Why?? Quality over Quantity please.

Edited September 3 by Sugar Min.5834

[Tofu.1865]

JW Maps are so beautiful but the rose-tinted glass is starting to fade and now I am getting annoyed with the Engi Spear 2 bug and spvp is flooded with Spear Guardian, Revenant and Warrior.

[Randulf.7614]

Janthir Syntri seems... unfinished? It def feels like a different map team. It lacks all the content, variety, verticality, cool features and interesting things to explore that map 1 had. It feels quite barren with a few identical repeating events that pop across the map. I admit I've only done the southern half, but it's largely empty. It makes for a nice wilderness, but not for a nice gameplay map.

I get Janthir is meant to be abandoned, but they chose Janthir as the expansion. After the brilliance of map 1, I'm a little disappointed with what feels more like Nayos round 2

[Manpag.6421]

2 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Janthir Syntri seems... unfinished? It def feels like a different map team. It lacks all the content, variety, verticality, cool features and interesting things to explore that map 1 had.

Content and cool features, yes; as you say, the events aren't varied much at all, and neither the map nor the events do anything particularly innovative (outside of the world bosses). The landscape itself is decently varied though, with the coastline, forest, bloodstone crater, White Mantle ruins, and sulphurous volcanic region — and imo they feel more distinct than Lowland Shore (where I keep forgetting which bit of which river has the sawmill, or the fish preparation, etc).

I'm actually glad it's a bit less vertical, because there was always a danger all maps would be unrealistically and needlessly vertical just because they could and skyscale exists. It's a forest/coastal map in an expansion featuring a mount that does better with smaller vertical jumps than sheer cliffs, so it seems fitting. Between the tall hills and the huge shattered cathedral to the north, and the buried bloodstone crystal in the cave, it feels vertical enough without being another Amnytas or Nayos imo, both of which have a lot of verticality just to justify the use of skyscale there. Assuming the next maps are to the north, where the terrain is already getting steep again, they're likely to again have more verticality without it feeling forced.