A New PvP Mode is Coming to Guild Wars 2--We Need Your Help Developing It!

[Demonoid.1974]

My experience in push so far: https://imgur.com/a/PSow9YW 

Good mode. What's left to say? There are less complicated party splits across the map for your team to become divided, so communication and coordination are less critical to a win. Feels like a game free from abused mobility and coordination between duo teammates while still letting them play together. Many builds can now spread their wings due to not needing the conquest essentials. Now the insurmountable wall of group fighting is there to determine outcomes more than the rotations. Players will have more fun when they aren't easily isolated and beaten, and allies have an easier time protecting them. Also, seems there are fewer situations where others can blame a specific individual compared to conquest. 
Goals met? Check. 

 

feedback/suggestions: 
The damage modifier and heal reduction mechanics could come with more obvious tells such as announcements, animations, sounds, or something else besides the little blue icon. Players need more indication of when they are made of pure glass or not. 
Possibly remove the stack system on that debuff, and just set it to the simple maximum value instantly. The ramp-up is too slow to punish healers (especially multiple). 
Perhaps add an optional exit portal from the spawn area to a stronger flank position for the losing team once the capture point is on the final stretch. 
Perhaps add a damage-reducing stealth buff to channel inside of the spawn, or automatically apply it upon exiting. 
Perhaps make the push point reveal. 

[Pawlegance.7012]

Still having a lot of fun. This is exactly what I like about pvp in rpgs: Team fights.

After another ~10 games I recommend the following changes for the next beta iteration:
-Disable downed state
-Disable side objectives
-Reduce max speed of payload
-Make payload a moving obstacle on the ground which accelerates with the number of players pushing (if not contested)
-Wave respawn every x seconds to prevent players from trickling in
-Diminishing returns for both heal, boon stacking and CC
-Show which team pushed how far in scores. Removed the flags as they are more confusing.

Thank you.

[Zephyrus.9680]

Edit: I'll preface after playing 30-40 games, the matchmaking is way better (currently in Gold 3). Fights sometimes turn around and it's rarely just a 1-sided stomp anymore. My original suggestions remain but it's not nearly as bad as my first impressions. Support in particular still seems very strong, ~70% win rate with my Tempest and when I swap to a different role things don't go as well.

I'm primarily a WvW player but already like this mode more than Conquest and would continue to play it even in a pre-finished state. 

--- Original comment

It's fun, the matches are fast and it feels more casual. It's a chill pvp mode and better for new/PvE players to jump in and team fight instantly. But there's a couple big problems imo:

 

Problem 1: It's too snowbally. The first fight almost always usually determines the game. This happened in all of my first ~8 matches where it snowballs because the loss causes staggered respawns. The team that loses the first fight will have a hard time getting a proper 5v5 afterwards because their players are on different respawn timers.

Suggestions:

- Some situation triggers a Second Wind mechanic that: 

1. Instantly respawns the entire team at the same time. 

2. Causes 0 respawn timer for a short time.

3. Provides a short combat buff. The other team can choose to fight the 'second wind' buff or tactically retreat/regroup and wait it off. 

Basically this is a full combat reset (minus objective progress) with an added buff to see if they actually can turn the game around. 

- Give shorter respawns to the team on the back foot

- Allow build swapping on death so you can fill in what the team is lacking. 

On the other hand, if one team is clearly going to win, there shouldn't be enough mechanics to unnecessarily prolong it for no reason. 

 

Problem 2: In 5v5, support is inherently stronger than most other contexts. Everyone knew this already, but it's difficult to balance because in other modes, support will usually not fight with a full team. (e.g. balancing support for a 2vX or 3vX context is much different than for 5vX)

Suggestions:

- Reduce target cap on various support skills from 5 to 3 (PvP only)

- Allow limited and optional split/roaming tactics for teams struggling win the 5v5 fight. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:52 PM by Zephyrus.9680

[maxwelgm.4315]

Another suggestion:

 Mortal contest is **EXTREMELY** badly telegraphed. People must be told in more ways then one, at least a chat announcement or a huge message in the middle of the screen when they are at max stacks and it's even better if they are told explicitly to leave the point once that happens. Not leaving the point while you are channeling invulnerable so you're both stacking the debuff and preventing point capture seems like an unintended interaction, consider fixing it though it's only the person's fault.

[coro.3176]

I just lost 5 games in a row.

• first game someone d/c-ed for the first teamfight and then reconnected, but we'd already lost..
• second game someone gave up and went afk
• third game was just a loss
• fourth game another d/c that reconnected but we'd already lost..
• fifth game was an afk after they got a deep-ish push

Feels pretty bad losing ~100 rating to this BS

How, after over a decade, do we not have idle detection, or punishment for D/C? I think if you disconnect at all, your team should not be punished, especially in this game mode. If you're missing for 1 minute, that's a HUGE chunk of the game. I honestly, don't give a skritt if you had to reset your modem, or your kid spilled juice on your computer or whateverthekitten. If you disconnect, you cause a loss 90% of the time.

Edited Saturday at 06:51 PM by coro.3176

[Weindrasi.3805]

Okay here's my feedback after playing 10 matches: it's very simple. It isn't bad--a decent mode for when I want to do mindless pvp grind--but overall, I prefer 2v2, 3v3, and typical conquest. Push is way too fast paced for strategy, there's no chance to out-maneuver or out-think the enemy team, no discussion or planning aside from calling targets. I go in with a tanky build, I engage in mindless murder for a few minutes, and it's done.

The little bonuses around the map aren't worth paying attention to. You've got two that--what?--buff your team a bit? And one that just neutralizes the push node for a few seconds. They aren't worth going for because, 9/10 times, the match outcome is decided within the first 30 seconds of gameplay.

One thing that I do really like is the facial expressions made by the cloud over the push node. I guess it's a SAB thing--I never tried SAB--but the cloud's angry face when it's moving made me laugh. I hope they keep it.

[coro.3176]

Have now played 150 games (might be the most so far? just looking at the leaderboard)

Game continues to be WAAAY too much about down state. This part sucks. Players hate being down, and they hate finishing downs. Why do we have to do it? It's not exciting, it feels random and tedious. The difference between winning and losing a game is often "did we down the target before or after one of ours was about to bleed out?" and if we downed them just slightly before, that effort is wasted because they insta-res. Again, no one likes this. Game mode would be better with a 400% damage increase on downed targets, or just no downstate at all and longer respawns? I don't know. Something.

 

• 2 hours ago, Zephyrus.9680 said:

  Problem 2: In 5v5, support is inherently stronger than most other contexts. Everyone knew this already, but it's difficult to balance because in other modes, support will usually not fight with a full team. (e.g. balancing support for a 2vX or 3vX context is much different than for 5vX)

  Not only support - anything that hits 5 targets, especially CC. Reaper Elite is probably the biggest offender here. CCing the entire other team for 3-4 seconds multiple times per fight per reaper is busted. It hits through all the objectives on the map, through walls, and feels like it has absurd range.

Edited Saturday at 07:09 PM by coro.3176

[Woop S.7851]

On 9/5/2024 at 9:39 AM, Guy.9207 said:

Probably too early to ask, but could this open up the possibility of having 3 or more teams in the same match?

That's a great point, and I agree. In GW1, there was a 4v4v4 format, so for this new game mode:

• A 5v5v5 structure could allow for a diamond-shaped waypoint layout, similar to the halma/diamond game.
• It would also help avoid one-sided wipes right from the start, as some have mentioned above.
• The map size and capture point distance could be adjusted to increase or decrease travel time, enabling different map designs and variations in match intensity and duration.
• A feature like "Dishonored" from GW1 would be great in case of multiple quits or conscious sabotage of a match
• In a 3-team structure, if players on one team quit, they should still be able to earn points or improve their chances of winning by capturing control points.
• Support gear could use a polish or comeback, as it helps counter player scattering and encourages teamwork among the five players.
• Guild tournaments, weekend bonuses, or even guild 'rush' events would be fantastic! These could lay the foundation towards self-taught 5-person group builds later utilized WvW.

Example reference of the GW1 map Grenz Frontier with a 4v4v4 structure:

 

Edited Saturday at 07:55 PM by Woop S.7851

[Ludwigvontreu.6840]

So I take back everything I said about this mode. It's awful. Nothing casual nor friendly here. Same ol' broken pvp. Not even sure if I'll be able to bear this for the tittle. 

[coro.3176]

One thing preventing comebacks fairly often is this:

• One team wins first fight and gets a deep push
• Other team struggles to regain control since they're trickling back and facing a support/boonball
• Eventually they start getting kills
• at this point, the tranquility buff spawns
• winning team gets it for free on the way back

[Fenris.8563]

I like the idea of this mode, but playing it is kind of having a negative effect for me.  I was under the impression that the map mechanics were basically supposed to take a back seat and be less important, allowing people to focus more on simply fighting other players vs focusing on map mechanics.  If anything, the map mechanics are MORE important in this mode because the match can end in seconds if you ignore them.  Granted, it is clearly much more simple. No doubt about that.  I think tweaks need to be done to make this a better experience, though.

If you have AOE specs on your team, you're absolutely dominating. If you don't, and the other team does, you are absolutely getting stomped.  In most situations.  This is due to the fact that the capturing points are so small, that anyone can just flood the capturing points with their AOE, and you have absolutely no choice (unless you're ranged) but to fight them in their AOE.  

Either AOEs need to be toned down in general, or these capturing points need to be much bigger to allow for space inside of them without being forced to just......stand in opp AOE.  And dying immediately in the process for the most part.  Especially playing as Untamed Ranger, my pets just get deleted right away even when I don't. 

We shouldn't be forced to play ranged, or simply watch the other team just capture the points and win.  

I was hoping (and under the impression) that this mode was going to be much more about "our skill vs theirs" rather than "let's just lay puddles and run to the finish line".  

[coro.3176]

6 hours ago, coro.3176 said:

I just lost 5 games in a row.

• first game someone d/c-ed for the first teamfight and then reconnected, but we'd already lost..
• second game someone gave up and went afk
• third game was just a loss
• fourth game another d/c that reconnected but we'd already lost..
• fifth game was an afk after they got a deep-ish push

again! Just had someone disconnected for the entire match and still lost rating for it. wtf?

[jeferson.5679]

I don't understand what happens with this game mode, if the enemy team push the circle further, and my team retakes more than the mid  line, do we lose even if we pushed it further than the mid? 😡

[foxtrot.6902]

Ton of fun, digging 5v5.

I agree w/comments about addressing CC spam (granted this is something I think is an issue across pvp/wvw so I might be in minority). CC is out of control when most builds roll with 2+ short cd stuns without even building for. Would love to see it become more tactical in use vs "I'm going to win by unplugging your controller". Add stability stacks to using a stun break or would love to see some items with -dmg taken while stunned etc etc. 

Other than that, I think adding a single use environmental hazard or trap for loosing side at checkpoints to create more potential of a volley/turn around versus a steamroll win could be a lot of fun. Give me an Indiana Jones style bolder to roll down the final path that's a giant choya and KOs enemies it hits lol 

But long and short, having a blast. Go wild with maps, keep it silly and fun and I think this is a mega win. 

[Marxx.5021]

Unfun game mode. As long as there is no match making that can create propper matchups there is no improvement which would make this a success.

[Chaos God.1639]

I think killing a player should matter more when it happens near the cloud. If a player gets killed then it should either slowdown the cloud or push it faster depending on who is controlling the cloud.

I also think that it should be harder for a winning team to come back to the cloud after they get killed near the opponent's base. Maybe they could remove one of the roads that is basically a short-cut for when you get killed and when the cloud is further from your base. The short-cut road could be replaced by obstacles or something else. This way the losing team will have higher chances for the comeback.

its good to have a new game mode, because even experienced players can learn something new from it, like trying a different class,...

Edited Sunday at 06:44 PM by Chaos God.1639

[arazoth.7290]

8 hours ago, jeferson.5679 said:

I don't understand what happens with this game mode, if the enemy team push the circle further, and my team retakes more than the mid  line, do we lose even if we pushed it further than the mid? 😡

If the node for your team somewhere in the entire duration of match traveled the furthest then u win. Even if enemy team is moving it further then in current spot but still not as far as you done, u still win.

And logically if the node reaches their base first, u win too

[jeferson.5679]

4 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

If the node for your team somewhere in the entire duration of match traveled the furthest then u win. Even if enemy team is moving it further then in current spot but still not as far as you done, u still win.

And logically if the node reaches their base first, u win too

force us to be in the circle at all times.
if a team can stay in the circle and push it at the end and win then congratulations,

but to last 10mn in a game where both teams fight so that the circle does not advance beyond the middle, the team that manages to keep the circle on its side should win. 

[Cutting Razor.5983]

On 9/13/2024 at 6:45 PM, Deus Fatorum.2473 said:

Bugs I have seen,

• On red team you can hop out of map by walking over the hut and behind base
• On blue team you can hop out of map by climbing the tower and leaping out
• If game starts while leaving map it can bug and perma force you into spawn by constantly sliding your character into the back of spawn, forcing a /stuck or leave and rejoin
• There are some perma stuck spots on the scaffolding on either side of the center where you get stuck in a perma falling animation, forcing a /stuck or rejoin.

On blue team it's even possible to hop out of the map and navigate all the way inside red base where the game will push you against the wall. I've done this a few times during the "warmup" period with mesmer using blink and Mirage sword ambush to bypass the pushback effect base boundaries have. You could theoretically spawn camp doing this since you're still able to attack enemy team and deal normal damage.

[Zily.3152]

So I don't know the answer to solving this, but most of my matches have been paired with players who do not play the objective at all which gives the other team, basically a guarantee win whenever I die as i tend to be the only one doing the objective (with the rare times i queue with a partner, then theres at least one more doing objective with me). I keep getting your basic stereotypical pvp partner who only wants to smooth brain run into a group of 5, die and then complain they aren't winning while they are making zero effort to play the objective.

[arazoth.7290]

5 hours ago, jeferson.5679 said:

force us to be in the circle at all times.
if a team can stay in the circle and push it at the end and win then congratulations,

but to last 10mn in a game where both teams fight so that the circle does not advance beyond the middle, the team that manages to keep the circle on its side should win. 

mmm haven't seen that before

[jeferson.5679]

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

mmm haven't seen that before

there are real battles where they don't push the circle past the base, or you push and they come back, most of my games end in 10 mins where no one could push it all the way but you struggle between moving it on both sides.

but in this game mode we are forced to stay in the circle,
if you split up to go fight or help your team and one of the enemy manages to move it a little further and then you go and retake the circle for your team, you lose regardless of the effort and how good the battle is. 

I suggest that if neither team can finish the game and time runs out, the side with the circle wins. 

[vodka.5208]

Great PvP mode lots of fun. Just feels little clunky (beta) but simple and I think way more friendly to new players. I think objectives need get highlighted better and flag movement. I do think it needs to be its own selectable game mode. I don't enjoy the randomness of unranked map even if you have little check to enable and disable a game mode. This game mode might be good way to test downstate options. Rally and downstate skills can effective whole fight based on the class. Maybe make down state skills gone least for pvp and wvw even.

[Kervv.6039]

After playing the map all weekend it has really grown on me. It's fast paced and I like that.

I do agree with others that the score at the top should represent how far you've gotten on the map. This way you can tell at a glance if you are winning or losing. I've had a few maps that I was sure we got further but lost the map. So I'm assuming the match was close and they squeaked it just a bit further than us.

If this game mode gets smoothed out I'd love to see a couple more maps of this.

[Kervv.6039]

19 hours ago, Zily.3152 said:

So I don't know the answer to solving this, but most of my matches have been paired with players who do not play the objective at all which gives the other team, basically a guarantee win whenever I die as i tend to be the only one doing the objective (with the rare times i queue with a partner, then theres at least one more doing objective with me). I keep getting your basic stereotypical pvp partner who only wants to smooth brain run into a group of 5, die and then complain they aren't winning while they are making zero effort to play the objective.

Welcome to sPvP in general 🙂