Mesmer, Distortion, good job anet....

[Cyninja.2954]

@Halan.8951 said:

@Eldar.5146 said:

@"Amineo.8951" said:

I expect QT to leave the game because of that change, "good bye" if that happens, it's not against them but they made raiding extremely annoying for new people indirectly because of the pugs wanting to be like them.

So people wanting to improve is a bad thing now? I guess you'd rather live in a world full of idiots to feel somehow special...

Just imagine the state of pug raiding without any build guides available

. I still remember the early raid days where I did 50% of the group damage cause people had no idea how to play their classes.

I remember raiding in WoW before video-tactics became popular, and even before there was in game journal with boss ability description. And we tried, observed, made conclusions and created our own tactics for bosses.Nowadays? You are expected to watch a video before even stepping into a raid to "not waste time on blind attempts". How is it interesting? What's the point? Is was actually the last drop that made me quite WoW.

On topic - TO THE GROUND, BABY! :p

Nowadays you join a training run if you are inexperienced and don't try to tag along with more experienced raid groups. I doubt that was any different in WoW no matter when, at least I don't recall it being different.

[Halan.8951]

..........

[Cyninja.2954]

@Halan.8951 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Halan.8951 said:

@Eldar.5146 said:

@"Amineo.8951" said:

I expect QT to leave the game because of that change, "good bye" if that happens, it's not against them but they made raiding extremely annoying for new people indirectly because of the pugs wanting to be like them.

So people wanting to improve is a bad thing now? I guess you'd rather live in a world full of idiots to feel somehow special...

Just imagine the state of pug raiding without any build guides available

. I still remember the early raid days where I did 50% of the group damage cause people had no idea how to play their classes.

I remember raiding in WoW before video-tactics became popular, and even before there was in game journal with boss ability description. And we tried, observed, made conclusions and created our own tactics for bosses.Nowadays? You are expected to watch a video before even stepping into a raid to "not waste time on blind attempts". How is it interesting? What's the point? Is was actually the last drop that made me quite WoW.

On topic - TO THE GROUND, BABY! :p

Nowadays you join a training run if you are inexperienced and don't try to tag along with more experienced raid groups. I doubt that was any different in WoW no matter when, at least I don't recall it being different.When you're in close-knit guild, people do dungeons together, then go into Normal, Heroic and maybe Mythic together. Then just Raid Leader decided to get "more serious" for new tiers.I didn't like pugging or giant guilds, there was only one raid group (10-30 ppl) in my last guild. Before that, I preferred doing 10 ppl to 25 ppl.Concept of GW2 multi-guilding for specific purposes is completely puzzling to me.

/Offtopic

The same thing works here too. I have guild members with whom I do dungeons, fractals, achievements, raids, story, etc. all in 1 guild. The main issue is, many people here are so casual that they are unwilling to even join a guild and socialize or play with people regularly.

If you are part of a guild with people who raid, 90% of the forum drama does not apply to you and you will never experience many of the negative stories that get thrown around. If you are part of a guild of like minded people that is.

[musu.9205]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@musu.9205 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:I'm on the fence here... As someone that built a guardian has his main class because i wanted to tank, it's nice to see that Guardian (especially firebrand) is closer to being able to do that.On the other hand, i spent 400g gearing up a Minstrel's chrono to be more consistent on my relatively newb raid group, and just started being consistent with my distorts to see those fail right when i'm starting to do well with those... Kinda sux.Now i just need to relearn what attacks can be blocked with aegis.As for the timing, i think it will be more or less the same thing. You'll have to time it as a distort (so within 1s) because you give yourself distort not aegis. So if you do it well there shouldn't be any "junk damage" taking away the aegis. But i do think that aegis should block more than just the one hit though. As a guardian main, i can't tell you how many times i died just after casting aegis because of some weird damage tick i didn't expect.

there is no dedicated tank in this game since aggro management is non exist .chrono tank is simply due to it loses least of dps . but hey keep dream

Well, this game actually has the best aggro management out there, just have more toughness than the rest, and except in a few bosses that have randomized targeting built in, you'll be the tank. That's how KC, VG and other bosses are doable. This has been the case since release, toughness has always determined the tank. And on top of that you have taunt (not that most tank worthy classes have taunt, but hey... It exists)But yes, you're right in saying that chrono is used as the tank (by using toughness to manage aggro) because it's strength lies mostly on its support potential, so it's no loss to the group if that support is also the tank. Same thing could be said for a Firebrand. Mirage is now a very viable DPS option for mesmer (chrono wasn't), hence Firebrand becoming a promising support/tank option, since it can already maintain quickness and other boons on the party, and now that distort is aegis (which guard can output way more reliably) the only loss is alacrity, which would require a support-oriented Renegade to output consistently.

thats not meaningful aggro management thoexcept wing 5 b1there is no aggro management skill in this gameall are done by one passive stat and u will never ever lose aggro .

if we want a "proper"tank anet hast o redesign content

[Grimjack.8130]

I barely played Chrono in raids opposed to other classes, and I could distort everything but greens on VG. People act like distorting anything was extremely hard, it wasn't.

Trust me I'm upset I might have to do greens on VG now, but if good things come from it (being better balance) I'm okay with it. Lets save the anger for when ArenaNet doesn't make the best of the chance they have now.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Grimjack.8130 said:I barely played Chrono in raids opposed to other classes, and I could distort everything but greens on VG. People act like distorting anything was extremely hard, it wasn't.

Trust me I'm upset I might have to do greens on VG now, but if good things come from it (being better balance) I'm okay with it. Lets save the anger for when ArenaNet doesn't make the best of the chance they have now.

Your quickness and alacrity up time was over 90%? If so, congratulations, you are better than 90% of the chronos I've seen in PUG groups. Then again, how many fights where you distort besides VG was there?

Fights where you would distort:

• VG green
• Gorseval slam and retaliation
• Sloth shake
• Samarog wave
• Deimos circle attack or as cover for aegis against strip from tears

Which fights were you distorting on if not at VG?

[Grimjack.8130]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Grimjack.8130 said:I barely played Chrono in raids opposed to other classes, and I could distort everything but greens on VG. People act like distorting anything was extremely hard, it wasn't.

Trust me I'm upset I might have to do greens on VG now, but if good things come from it (being better balance) I'm okay with it. Lets save the anger for when ArenaNet doesn't make the best of the chance they have now.

Your quickness and alacrity up time was over 90%? If so, congratulations, you are better than 90% of the chronos I've seen in PUG groups. Then again, how many fights where you distort besides VG was there?

Fights where you would distort:

• VG green
• Gorseval slam and retaliation
• Sloth shake
• Samarog wave
• Deimos circle attack or as cover for aegis against strip from tears

Which fights were you distorting on if not at VG?

Gorseval Slams and Blacks. Sloth Shakes. KC Slams. Samarog swipes and spears on CM. Slams on Deimos. Hell I learned to distort the Hurricane/Vortex Slash on Soulless Horror in less than a day.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Grimjack.8130 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Grimjack.8130 said:I barely played Chrono in raids opposed to other classes, and I could distort everything but greens on VG. People act like distorting anything was extremely hard, it wasn't.

Trust me I'm upset I might have to do greens on VG now, but if good things come from it (being better balance) I'm okay with it. Lets save the anger for when ArenaNet doesn't make the best of the chance they have now.

Your quickness and alacrity up time was over 90%? If so, congratulations, you are better than 90% of the chronos I've seen in PUG groups. Then again, how many fights where you distort besides VG was there?

Fights where you would distort:

• VG green
• Gorseval slam and retaliation
• Sloth shake
• Samarog wave
• Deimos circle attack or as cover for aegis against strip from tears

Which fights were you distorting on if not at VG?

Gorseval Slams and Blacks. Sloth Shakes. KC Slams. Samarog swipes and spears on CM. Slams on Deimos. Hell I learned to distort the Hurricane/Vortex Slash on Soulless Horror in less than a day.

So basically every fight I mentioned besides wing 5 and Deimos as support chrono. Yes, once you have a feeling for the distortion skills it became an automatism and adapting to new attacks was easy (I was distorting Soulless Horror attacks within less than 30 minutes as Minstrel Tank). That doesn't change the fact that compared to what any other class has to bring rotation wise it was some of the most complex rotation and required knowledge of every boss mechanic and attack.

Nothing is hard once you master it. You need to keep a clean perspective though and compare the performance demanded to everyone in the field. On that basis, distortion and a proper rotation from chrono was high skill gameplay because most dps rotations were vastly easier.

[Henry.5713]

People are kidding themselves if they assume the personal skill level of the majority of "pugs" is going to increase now. This change simply moves some of the pressure off the chronomancer and back to the druid. Basically, the way it was before we got used to using distorts instead of well timed burst healing. I am still not a fan of the removal of anything that requires more than just the practice of a certain rotation against the golems.

That said, doubt too much will change in the end. Replacing a musthave support such as the chronomancer with the proposed duo of musthaves (firebrand + renegeade) is questionable. This leaves you with even less flexibility as far as compositions are concerned. Only worth it if they totally overperformed in comparison which they do not from what I have seen so far.

[Cyninja.2954]

@"Henry.5713" said:People are kidding themselves if they assume the personal skill level of the majority of "pugs" is going to increase now. This change simply moves some of the pressure off the chronomancer and back to the druid. Basically, the way it was before we got used to using distorts instead of well timed burst healing. I am still not a fan of the removal of anything that requires more than just the practice of a certain rotation against the golems.

That said, doubt too much will change in the end. Replacing a musthave support such as the chronomancer with the proposed duo of musthaves (firebrand + renegeade) is questionable. This leaves you with even less flexibility as far as compositions are concerned. Only worth it if they totally overperformed in comparison which they do not from what I have seen so far.

This guy gets it. Pretty much what I am expecting to happen too. Let's wait and see.

[Gaile Gray.6029]

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:Balance feedback for mesmers belongs in the mesmer profession forum.

You're right, and I've moved it here now. :)

[Abelisk.4527]

Doesn't this change make Chrono not a must in literally every raid encounter? That's a plus in my book.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Abelisk.4527 said:Doesn't this change make Chrono not a must in literally every raid encounter? That's a plus in my book.

Unless Firebrand+Revenant can outperform mesmer+full dps, nothing will change.

If fb+rev are equal, why try to get 2 specialized classes when you can take 1 mesmer and be done with alacrity and quickness?

If fb+rev are superior you still need to fill 2 specialized slots now versus 1.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

@Gaile Gray.6029 said:

@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:Balance feedback for mesmers belongs in the mesmer profession forum.

You're right, and I've moved it here now. :)

Aaaaand you didn't notice the second statement conceding that a thread focused on pve-wide effects should remain in the pve forum. Thanks.

[apharma.3741]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:Doesn't this change make Chrono not a must in literally every raid encounter? That's a plus in my book.

Unless Firebrand+Revenant can outperform mesmer+full dps, nothing will change.

If fb+rev are equal, why try to get 2 specialized classes when you can take 1 mesmer and be done with alacrity and quickness?

If fb+rev are superior you still need to fill 2 specialized slots now versus 1.

Well it can be an option for those wanting to try different things but really the problem is if you run FB and renegade you miss out on perma protection, vigor, swiftness, the FB being the healer excludes the druid from the party so they either have to use CA5 for the might on both parties or they probably need the war in the group to ensure no gaps in the might uptime. You also still need ranger spirits so regardless you’ll still want a harrier druid which requires the Chrono otherwise as you say you need to fill 2 slots to do what the Chrono does.

It just doesn’t slot together quite as well as Chrono and druid then stack whatever you want, heck if you have a heal ele the druid can slack off on healing as 1 heal ele can usually keep an entire 10 player squad healthy on their own, I know I can on heal ele if people don’t facetank too hard. I dunno it feels like Chrono is just too good at its support, I’m not saying it needs to be nerfed, just that it’s a hard truth everyone is going to have to deal with.

[thrag.9740]

@"musu.9205" said:

and your idea distortion after aegis . i like how guard main : distortion share was op and broken , but let's give guard something so they can pretty much invuln entire fight without any thought . sure lets do it .

I like how you make yourself look like bad with incorrect assumptions. I'm not a guardian main, in fact if you look at my LI breakdown:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/302790230576988160/391046778016759809/unknown.png

You'll see I have a lot of interest in chrono, and almost no interest in guard. So put on your tin foil hat, and go play outside, the adults are trying to have a conversation.

[musu.9205]

@thrag.9740 said:

@"musu.9205" said:

and your idea distortion after aegis . i like how guard main : distortion share was op and broken , but let's give guard something so they can pretty much invuln entire fight without any thought . sure lets do it .

I like how you make yourself look like bad with incorrect assumptions. I'm not a guardian main, in fact if you look at my LI breakdown:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/302790230576988160/391046778016759809/unknown.png

You'll see I have a lot of interest in chrono, and almost no interest in guard. So put on your tin foil hat, and go play outside, the adults are trying to have a conversation.

i just wanted to joke .coz i don't feel like changing all aegis to 1s distortion after its block is worth to have an adults conversation .

[musu.9205]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:Doesn't this change make Chrono not a must in literally every raid encounter? That's a plus in my book.

Unless Firebrand+Revenant can outperform mesmer+full dps, nothing will change.

If fb+rev are equal, why try to get 2 specialized classes when you can take 1 mesmer and be done with alacrity and quickness?

If fb+rev are superior you still need to fill 2 specialized slots now versus 1.

Well it can be an option for those wanting to try different things but really the problem is if you run FB and renegade you miss out on perma protection, vigor, swiftness, the FB being the healer excludes the druid from the party so they either have to use CA5 for the might on both parties or they probably need the war in the group to ensure no gaps in the might uptime. You also still need ranger spirits so regardless you’ll still want a harrier druid which requires the Chrono otherwise as you say you need to fill 2 slots to do what the Chrono does.

It just doesn’t slot together quite as well as Chrono and druid then stack whatever you want, heck if you have a heal ele the druid can slack off on healing as 1 heal ele can usually keep an entire 10 player squad healthy on their own, I know I can on heal ele if people don’t facetank too hard. I dunno it feels like Chrono is just too good at its support, I’m not saying it needs to be nerfed, just that it’s a hard truth everyone is going to have to deal with.

i think it's more to do with fb + rev can't play much of their strength in current raid , we tried to force them into chrono role , but they do have their own niche .what fb does better than other support : stability + condition removal + aegis + good individual dps + mobile (better than chrono if with good group )+ access to resistancewhat rev healer does better : ranged heal , highest raw heal in game .

none of those are desired in current raid maybe stability in cairn , and ranged healer in dhuum.

chrono alone is fine . but soi combined with druid spirit , two slot could cover most useful boons in game.

things like spirit and banner still need a total rework , they are too rewarding for such passive gameplay . also chrono will have to choose to play chaos line or have far less boon covered