Let's say, theoretically, I wanted to refund Janthir Wilds...

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

NO, that's NOT the point of the thread. The point of the thread was that the OP asked the forum if they thought they were entitled to a refund. 

they are, any purchase made within 30 days is refunded, pretty much automatically if you look at the terms.  OP is complaining that he doesnt like the nerf, and I dont either.  Hes also nice enough to share why hes dissatisfied and asking for a refund.

Edited September 14 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

5 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

This perhaps a time to walk away. Balance changes and their ilk are not only part and parcel of every live game service, they are part of the contractual agreement signed up for when joining the game. Every game company knows that balance changes will ALWAYS upset some and aid others. They know this better than anyone

I'm not sure what is being gained by goung round in circles arguing. The OP got their refund. It's Saturday night peeps, go have some fun 😉

i completely agree but people on here cant seem to accept that players are dissatisfied with the nerf.  They just dont want to accept it and they want to attack anyone who has a problem with it.  I dont know why they care so much, i guess they must own anet stock or something.  You would think their views would be more in line with the dissatisfied playerbase, since they are in fact players themselves.

Edited September 14 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

they are, any purchase made within 30 days is refunded, pretty much automatically if you look at the terms. 

OK so this if this information is available,  yet for SOME reason, the OP make a thread about a 'theoretical' situation where they ask for one what would happen ... to average players that have no authority on what's a refundable condition. 

1 minute ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

OP is complaining that he doesnt like the nerf, and I dont either.

That's the dig ... the thread ISN'T a complaint about the nerf. It's a ruse. 

Edited September 14 by Obtena.7952

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK so this if this information is available,  yet for SOME reason, the OP make a thread about a 'theoretical' situation where they ask for one what would happen ... to average players that have no authority on what's a refundable condition. 

 

I had no idea that the information was available, I thought it prudent to ask here as I'm sure at least someone has wanted to refund an expansion pack and may have had a quick rundown of how it went.

This was unexpected.

Quote

That's the dig ... the thread ISN'T a complaint about the nerf. It's a ruse. 

I never come here to complain, Obtena; you know that very well.

Plus there's no point in doing so, anet can set the terms of their balance however they'd like. 

[Darklord Roy.2514]

13 hours ago, Eater of Peeps.9062 said:

I have looked everywhere in the T&C and I can find nothing that says anything about removal of functionality as a basis for refund. Not sure where you are getting that

Suppose I should have been more specific, since I'm referring to false advertising (the hot topic of this thread). What I mean is that if, say, Janthir Wilds is advertised as the expansion that brings land spears to every class, then in the first balance patch after release they decide to remove spear from all but 3 classes. That's the removal of functionality I'm talking about, because that would be considered false advertising. They can't just advertise something like that, open up prerelease sales, then after release completely go back on their word.

13 hours ago, Eater of Peeps.9062 said:

Also, GW has repeatedly removed content, functionality, advertised features (such as running with a squad in wvw - which you frequently can't do unless you're "invited"), etc. Not sure why this is a point of contention.

I have no idea what this means. They never removed the ability for people to run with squads in WvW unless invited, literally every time I play WvW I join a public squad, you may be having trouble finding them depending on your server but that doesn't mean that feature was "removed." The only instance I can think of that genuinely removed any content from the game was when LWS1 was releasing, but nobody paid for that content and they already told us it was going to be temporary content (and now it's back permanently). When have they genuinely "repeatedly" removed content/functionality/advertised features in an expansion?

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

im sorry where did I say that the spear nerf was illegal?  I dont ever recall saying that, please show me where I said that since you love quoting so much. 

Here's just a few from when you decided to jump into this thread:

On 9/11/2024 at 6:49 AM, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

the OP has a point gatcha games are not allowed to release new units/characters and then after you spend money on them, they nerf them into oblivion

On 9/11/2024 at 8:14 PM, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

On 9/11/2024 at 9:56 AM, Manpag.6421 said:

For that example to be relevant though, they would have had to have specifically advertised the expansion on the premise "Get warrior spear and dominate your foes in PvP!". Spears in general are a selling point, and OP got what they paid for. To expect anything to remain totally unchanged in a MMORPG, much less something that's dominating a competitive mode, is lunacy, and OP should've 100% known better. If they bought an entire expansion solely on an overpowered weapon for a single profession, that was a poor financial decision on their part.

and yet what your describing CANNOT be done in gatcha games, please explain why its different in MMOs

On 9/11/2024 at 8:33 PM, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

gw2 is not a gatcha game, but it is a videogame with online purhcases the same as a gatcha game.  So what is the difference? I mean are you saying that if one game is a real time strategy and sells items online and one is a first person shooter and sells items online, that they have different laws regulating it? I dont think so, they're both online games.

 

Yeah, totally nothing about laws and online game regulations. And it's not like you tried linking some sites to keep pushing for that exact "legal" claim, which is also exactly what the person I quoted tried bringing up again. 🤦‍♂️ 

Edited September 14 by Sobx.1758

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Here's just a few from the start of you hopping into this thread:

 

Yeah, totally nothing about laws and online game regulations. And it's not like you tried linking some sites to keep pushing for that exact "legal" claim, which is also exactly what the person I quoted tried bringing up again. 🤦‍♂️ 

yah see i said absolutely nothing about the spear in gw2 being nerfed being illegal, I didnt think so.  So please stop making things up as I didnt say this, and as usual you take things out of context.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

yah see i said absolutely nothing about the spear in gw2 being nerfed being illegal, I didnt think so.  So please stop making things up as I didnt say this, and as usual you take things out of context.

You kept saying those games are "not allowed to do it" in relation to nerfing purchased content, then continued with vague mentions of online games regulations, proceeded to link some irrelevant things you probably never even read in your life but expected other people to make an argument for you... then tried saying it has anything to do with "false advertising" aaand on top on all of this nonsense you wrote in this thread which you now try to lie about, here's another one of your posts directly claiming it's against the law but people should google the reasoning you don't have:

On 9/11/2024 at 8:42 PM, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

On 9/11/2024 at 8:41 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

On 9/11/2024 at 8:41 PM, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

more like you dont have a point since you countered with nothing and I said it is a law, and you asked for it and i showed you what its under.  You however have 0 argument and have shown me nothing to suggest that its ok.

So it's not against any law. If you think it is, quote it, thanks.

no why not educate yourself. its all right there.  just google it.  You could become a legal scholar just think.

 

What a terrible attempt to backpedal on what you kept writing for a few pages 😂 

Edited September 14 by Sobx.1758

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You kept saying those games are "not allowed to do it" in relation to nerfing purchased content, then continued with vague mentions of online games regulations, proceeded to link some irrelevant things you probably never even read in your life but expected other people to make an argument for you... then tried saying it has anything to do with "false advertising" aaand on top on all of this nonsense you wrote in this thread which you now try to lie about, here's another one of your posts directly claiming it's against the law but people should google the reasoning you don't have:

 

What a terrible attempt to backpedal on what you kept writing for a few pages 😂 

the gacha community doesnt allow them to do it and companies usualy capitulate to the playerbase in similar situations, because the playerbase is vocal about their dissatisfaction with it.  MMo' players react the way they do on this thread as well as how you react so nothing changes and companies do what they like which was my entire point.  Depending on the circumstances of the nerf in a gacha game, and the country the playerbase is in, and said countries laws, gacha developers cannot do similar things involving nerfs depending on the circumstances.  I went on to clarify that this scenario with the spear in my opinion wasn't illegal.  So again you're putting words in my mouth and attempting to act like im backpedaling when IM NOT my message has been consistent this entire time.  I was simply showing the extent to which gatcha communities go in the face of nerfs or balance changes that they dont like.

You asked me what laws these gacha players are raising to challenge similar situations legally and I said false advertising laws which you then refused to look up yourself and began your own train of thought asking for endless legal quotes and straight one to one comparisons to gw2 spear nerfs (an issue I NEVER RAISED).  A ridiculous request,  especially since its not even my position, so why would I help you with your random take on the information that I presented that you deliberately misconstrued, im not going to educate you and you refuse to educate yourself, so continue being ignorant I dont care.

 

[Sobx.1758]

As proven by the posts I quoted, you kept clearly insisting this is also a legal issue and kept saying people should go look for it themselves. No amount of backpedalling will change what can be clearly seen in your posts, some of which I quoted above. 🤷‍♂️ 

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

As proven by the posts I quoted, you kept clearly insisting this is also a legal issue and kept saying people should go look for it themselves. No amount of backpedalling will change what can be clearly seen in your posts, some of which I quoted above. 🤷‍♂️ 

oh what really show me where I said gw2 spear nerf was illegal show it  🤷‍♂️ because I went out of my way to clarify that i thought it wasnt right up front, you can insinuate/nitpick and misconstrue all you want its what you do on most threads here with just about anyone who doesnt like something about the game.

 

You have yet to state your own opinion on the OP point, you just attack peoples stances no matter what it is.

Edited September 14 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Sobx.1758]

I already quoted your posts in this thread, talking specifically about wht this thread is about and balance changes themselves. I'll simply quote again what I already included on the previous page because it probably can't get any clearer what you meant than you literally reminding "I said it is a law, and you asked for it and i showed you what its under":

On 9/11/2024 at 8:41 PM, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

more like you dont have a point since you countered with nothing and I said it is a law, and you asked for it and i showed you what its under.  You however have 0 argument and have shown me nothing to suggest that its ok.

If you're getting amused by trolling like this than good for you. But it can't be any more clear what you're doing here. 🤦‍♂️ 

 

Anyways, done getting baited, thanks for obviously showing you were just making up nonsense as you were going. 🙋‍♂️

Edited September 14 by Sobx.1758

[Kulvar.1239]

On 9/10/2024 at 7:29 PM, Farohna.6247 said:

You eat your meal at a restaurant then complain and want a refund too don't you

Except the restaurant only has a "starter, main course, dessert" as a single menu item, you pay first then you get served, and arriving at the dessert, there's a dead rat in the plate but they say it's non-refundable so they direct you to just eat around the dead rat or skip dessert.

[UNDEAD.6108]

2 hours ago, Eater of Peeps.9062 said:

Who says it makes no sense? It's not a hard concept to understand and you have been provided numerous examples/analogies that show that content is lost when they nerf skills/builds/dps/armor strength, weapons, etc. Who says it's dishonest? To quote one of your comrades, where's your proof, your citation, your evidence that it's dishonest? I think you are personally attacking another player when you call them dishonest (i.e. - a LIAR!).

Well only one here attacking other users is you when you keep getting angry and start claiming that nerfing is same thing then "removing content" to anyone who says that nerfing is not same thing then content being removed.

Also if you search about meaning of nerf in gaming, then you can find lots of sources that nerf means making something (skill, character, weapon, item and etc.) less powerful and nothing about content being removed.

 

Edited September 15 by UNDEAD.6108

[Bladestrom.6425]

2 hours ago, Eater of Peeps.9062 said:

Who says it makes no sense? It's not a hard concept to understand and you have been provided numerous examples/analogies that show that content is lost when they nerf skills/builds/dps/armor strength, weapons, etc. Who says it's dishonest? To quote one of your comrades, where's your proof, your citation, your evidence that it's dishonest? I think you are personally attacking another player when you call them dishonest (i.e. - a LIAR!).

ofc the damage number 10  = content, the damage number 9 does not makes no sense.  there is also 30 years of precedent in this type of game. I also did not see Anet advertising that wilds would be the first  perfectly balanced expansion in the history of mmorpgs. 

I dont think people are being liars, but like the OP, some are being disingenuous and self entitled.

Edited September 15 by Bladestrom.6425

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

I also did not see Anet advertising that wilds would be the first  perfectly balanced expansion in the history of mmorpgs. 

I dont think people are being liars, but like the OP, some are being disingenuous and self entitled.

I mean...

I'm sorry I expect the spear to work reasonably well (I'm not, but-)? If that's disingenuous and self-entitled then you may apply those labels if you wish. I imagine that my satisfaction as a customer counts for something though.

I have never expected Anet to perfectly balance their game. But I do think that there is a certain degree of reasonableness in expecting how weapons you pay for may change in service of that balance, and if that change makes the weapon significantly less serviceable, you should be able to return it given that what you purchased the weapon for is no longer what you have access to.

People keep making assertions that I expect the weapon to be unbalanced or overpowered, I don't. I do expect it to not ship usable, then quickly be reworked so that the use cases it applied to no longer exist because of a problem not central to the spear. If they'd just made it hit less hard and addressed the bug causing it to overperform on spellbreaker, I would not have come here at all. 

Edited Sunday at 02:16 PM by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Obtena.7952]

8 hours ago, Eater of Peeps.9062 said:

I will make sure to pm you with all my inquiries about game content and  T & C 

Sure, PM me about your inquiries about game content. It appears you need the help. 

Edited Sunday at 02:59 PM by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

9 hours ago, Eater of Peeps.9062 said:

Pretty sure you're confused. It is what the thread is. I smell a ruse and intentional distraction.

That doesn't make sense ... what are you saying the thread is about and what ruse are you referring to? Explain yourself ... then we can have a discussion. 

Edited Sunday at 04:40 PM by Obtena.7952

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I mean..People keep making assertions that I expect the weapon to be unbalanced or overpowered, I don't. I do expect it to not ship usable, then quickly be reworked so that the use cases it applied to no longer exist because of a problem not central to the spear. If they'd just made it hit less hard and addressed the bug causing it to overperform on spellbreaker, I would not have come here at all. 

I didn't apply that strawman.   What you are saying is you wouldn't feel entitled for a refund if Anet just got balancing perfect really quickly.  Well 25 years of precedent makes it clear that's not how mmorpg works and that's why its disingenuous, you are a veteran and like other experience players we buy knowing balance is likely to be an ongoing issue. 

Balance and balance fix cadence has been an issue in Gw2 since it was first released, why did you think think this expansion would be any different?

Edited Sunday at 03:14 PM by Bladestrom.6425

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

Balance and balance fix cadence has been an issue in Gw2 since it was first released, why did you think think this one would be any different?

I didn't, but I do think that if a product gets adjusted in a way that makes it no longer suitable for the reason it was bought, customers should be allowed to return that product and reconsider when the cadence has found its feet. Tolerating an issue for a long time doesn't mean you should always do so.  

 

Edited Sunday at 03:18 PM by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Bladestrom.6425]

4 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I didn't, but I do think that if a product gets adjusted in a way that makes it no longer suitable for the reason it was bought, customers should be allowed to return that product and reconsider when the cadence has found its feet. 

 

Again, you say you are a veteran but then you don't seem to understand the mmorpgs.

edit, i.e the cadence is the same as it was 12 years ago, it is not reasonable to expect that Anet have secretly decided to solve that problem with this expansion, and therefore let you down.

Edited Sunday at 03:23 PM by Bladestrom.6425

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

I'm sorry I expect the spear to work reasonably well

 

Your definition and Anet's definition of "reasonably well" appear to be quite different.  Pretty sure Anet finds that it works reasonably well; otherwise, they probably would not have released it into production.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

20 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Your definition and Anet's definition of "reasonably well" appear to be quite different.  Pretty sure Anet finds that it works reasonably well; otherwise, they probably would not have released it into production.

Cool. 

I'm sure most companies think their releases work reasonably well, but then are incorrect anyway.  Companies can be wrong. Look at Concord. 

Sometimes you need feedback to temper your releases for the people that are your target audience, and sometimes feedback is refunds. 

Edited Sunday at 03:47 PM by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

22 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

edit, i.e the cadence is the same as it was 12 years ago, it is not reasonable to expect that Anet have secretly decided to solve that problem with this expansion, and therefore let you down.

That's fine, I'm not expecting a solving of the balance cadence issues. That does not mean I need to tolerate the balance cadence issues if they affect content I just bought to the point that it no longer works in the game mode I enjoy. 

You don't need to affix a larger scope than what I am claiming to it. Spear ship good, I buy. Spear change to be bad, I refund. It's not any bigger than that. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

6 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

That's fine, I'm not expecting a solving of the balance cadence issues. That does not mean I need to tolerate the balance cadence issues if they affect content I just bought to the point that it no longer works in the game mode I enjoy. 

You don't need to affix a larger scope than what I am claiming to it. Spear ship good, I buy. Spear change to be bad, I refund. It's not any bigger than that. 

there is nothing to 'tolerate'   I personally find that the self entitled 'its not my fault' culture is extremely damaging, and that is why it is called out.   As I said Anet were very generous in giving you a refund, good for them. 

I bought an orange once, and it was just way more bitter than I expected, so therefore i'm entitled to a refund!   Extrapolate out if everyone done this.  

Edited Sunday at 03:53 PM by Bladestrom.6425