What is Greatsword's Flavor/Identity in 2024?

[PseudoOAlias.4279]

(Other than functionally perma-fury on the base F1 and the Primal Burst (usually) doing much less damage than people think it does I mean.)

 So I want to open this by thanking the Devs for the Mace 5 reset. While the 3+3=6 targets thing is still kinda weird, the weapon also at least works as a setup weapon, now.

But if the first bit above ^ is the intended end-point for GS then I guess yeah fair enough. But if you take the F1(s) out of it, for example if you play wayyy too much Bladesworn like I do and are still c(h)oping for a rework at some point, Greatsword seems just kind of inferior to every other Weapon/Combination in every way:

 > It's not the Pure Damage' Weapon because that goes to Axes in almost every PvX situation.

 > It's not the Hybrid Damage + Mobility' weapon anymore b/c sword + Pistol moves you further, does the same damage if not more damage faster, and applies more cripple vuln and aegis.

 > It's not the Pure Mobility Weapon' because Staff moves you further and recharges faster, even if you trait GS.

 > Is it the Cleave Weapon' then? I personally like this idea. But not currently because all of Spear's skills hit at least 2 more targets in a bigger AoE (with the only exception being Arc Divider.) But design-wise being the "Big Melee Cleave' Boi" would make sense. I'd love to see some unique flavors like this added somehow, maybe up its range to something like Reaper Shroud autos or Revenant Scepter? But if not could we maybe up the target cap to 5 on all the skills, unroot 2, make the 4 not useless, or maybe get a pass at the auto-attack chain to bring it into "current year?"

If all of Greatsword's power budget needs to get leveraged on to the F1 to make it "feel like a Greatsword" then I guess I get that. But if Ranger Bows are going to get brought up so they aren't a "Flavor Fail" anymore, and if some of the Design Budget' is going to be removed from spear via consecutive nerf patches | (🔥 Take btw: I'm actually in favor of most of the spear nerfs,  because while it should not have been oversold/artificially juiced to begin with, imo you should NOT have to buy a particular expansion to stay relevant,) | it just seems like such a similar "Flavor Fail" to not have Greatsword viable in some way for just about every/any? Warrior Spec. And I'd personally love to see some of said removed "Design Carnival Tickets" added back to GS since it's like "THE" core Warrior Weapon.

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Also, & completely unrelated, can we PLEASE have some of [Eternal Champion]'s power-budget leveraged somewhere else? Maybe keep the on enter+exit functionality' on [EC], but let us cancel Berserk Mode baseline, OR move the Stability to [Savage Instinct] so that, even mechanical/lack of animation problems aside, there would be a shred of a chance of taking [King of Fires]? Even without a "detonate" animation [KoF] is a really cool (hot) trait. It just sucks that you're literally never going to take it outside of maybe PvE because the simple Quality-of-Life that you get from [EC] is way too high.

Also, also it's weird that [Spear Swipe] is only a "Movement Skill" for [Swift as the Wind] but not [Warrior's Sprint] and [Skull Grinder] still isn't a movement skill at all. Even though the same animations are considered "Movement Skills" on both Ranger, Revenant and for [Relic of the Stormsinger].
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That's just my 2 cents tho. Lmk if y'all have any thoughts!!

P.S. Please give Bladesworn an identity too and revert or fix it! Thx & thx for reading!! 😄

[Ferus.3165]

Just go through the skills and look how many of them are worth something or if you get some value out of them.

Imo:

Autoattack is a trash/mediocre skill but that is true for most autoattacks in the game.

Gs2 is outright garbage anywhere in either pve or wvw/pvp. 3.5 seconds of standing still to deal a little more damage than if you were just autoattacking normally is just garbage. It hits only three targets and has a low range, it doesn't give you any buffs and doesn't inflict any negative effect on the enemy. Also the dmg is backloaded so if you miss the last hit of the skill just autoattacking would have been better. Absolutely useless.

Gs3 is a good skill. Mobility+Evade and decent damage

Gs4 is pretty much trash too. Huge cast time and a slow moving projectile. The only saving grace here is that the dmg is alright if the skill hits the target both times.

Gs5 is decent/mediocre. The damage is fine if it lands and it offers some mobility but the cd is high and it is insanely telegraphed.

Then at last you have the f1 which is the only real cleave and burst you have on this weapon. The skill can hit five targets and the damage is good and the aoe is decent. It also gives you permanent fury if you hit the skill consistently. This is imo the best skill on warrior greatsword. And even if the zerker variant doesn't provide fury the dmg and the improved aoe still make it a good skill.

If you play bladesworn and for that reason remove the f1 skill from greatsword the remaining skills are not worth it imo. The only useful skills are gs3 and gs5 and that is not enough either in pve or in wvw/pvp

Especially gs2 needs an update because this is the "bread and butter" skill of this weapon and it is stuck in the past and is one of the worst if not the worst skill in the entire game.

[WingSwipe.3084]

The only real change id like on Greatsword for warrior is:

• Some more auto attack damage (Dagger hits harder... dagger).
• Unrooting and improved cast time of 100b with current scaling.
• Faster projectile with GS4.
• Restore Arc Divider to 3-hit state, literally just revert it to its previous iterations.

After that id be very happy to use the weapon again, but for now even post-nerf spear offers more.

[Suyheuti.1732]

5 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

The only real change id like on Greatsword for warrior is:

• Some more auto attack damage (Dagger hits harder... dagger).
• Unrooting and improved cast time of 100b with current scaling.
• Faster projectile with GS4.
• Restore Arc Divider to 3-hit state, literally just revert it to its previous iterations.

After that id be very happy to use the weapon again, but for now even post-nerf spear offers more.

Everything was good until Arc Divider part. Arc Divider wont be reverted, it is stated and for me it is fine. 
1- More Autoattack damage will be nice. 
2- 100blades is really garbage skill. I think just unrooting wont save it. Damage scale should be similar with Axe5. 
3- Definitely.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

GS:

Make the AA chain also grant might for 3s, 1 stack on each strike with 2 on the last strike.

Reduce the cast time on 100B to 2s, increase its range to 240, and number of targets to 5. Extra Spicy change: gain a small amount of barrier on each hit, like 100 barrier. 

Speed up the attack on Bladetrail, make it bounce off of terrain.

For Rush make it cleave.

[Lucentfir.7430]

20 hours ago, Suyheuti.1732 said:

Everything was good until Arc Divider part. Arc Divider wont be reverted, it is stated and for me it is fine. 
1- More Autoattack damage will be nice. 
2- 100blades is really garbage skill. I think just unrooting wont save it. Damage scale should be similar with Axe5. 
3- Definitely.

A couple of friends and I were discussing how bad and outdated 100b was, and we had the funny suggestion of what if the final hit of 100b finished opponents/downed players. Honestly though to make 100B usable again, they'd half to undo the backloading damage to the final strike change, or reduce the cast time. You won't ever hit someone with a full channel unless the stars align or you're cooking with generous amounts of quickness.  

[Invoker.5462]

I havent played in a hot moment but GS hasn't been good since launch.

I remember it was cool back then, fighting on a bridge in WvW and see GS warriors flying through the frontline with the foward spin. That used to be a nice aspect of the game - warriors i mean.

The original vision of a frontline all-around bruiser class could have been the pre-emptive cure for the blob fests we have now. Think about it, if Warrior still had that strength from launch, we'd be playing an entirely different game.

Fast foward to todays greatsword warrior 

You've got a big wet noodle to fling around, and the foward spin? It's used as a tool for escape now, not bruiser-ing.

The only silver lining to using this weapon is, if you don't care about being strong or relevant (and are okay with being weak and dying easily), it can be fun to take the greatsword down to the jungles of magumma and hack and slash through those bug things on the last map (in heart of thorns). 

[Witch Engine.2305]

I do like the mobility that greatsword has but 2 shouldn't root you.

[Kinzu.5820]

On 10/13/2024 at 7:15 AM, Witch Engine.2305 said:

I do like the mobility that greatsword has but 2 shouldn't root you.

I do wish that it forced a dodge by pulling someone in, gently, or slowed by default to make sure more players can land hits with it, it'd make greatsword warrior a little more friendly to play.

As an alternative having it reflect frontal projectiles for it's first couple of swipes is also an idea that I'd put above any movement mechanic changes, personally. You swing the thing like it was meant to, anyway!

Edited October 15 by Kinzu.5820

[Mungrul.9358]

On 10/11/2024 at 7:25 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

For Rush make it cleave.

Actually, how about it hitting every enemy in its path towards the final target?

[Smoothpine.1895]

9 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Actually, how about it hitting every enemy in its path towards the final target?

I second this. That needs to be added!

[Mungrul.9358]

I did immediately think after posting that it would make it almost identical to Whirlwind Attack functionally, so maybe not the best idea. But it would certainly feel better and do something to justify the 20 second cooldown.

[WingSwipe.3084]

kitten it, give me a 3 hit Arc Divider looking attack instead of 100b. Just make it do similar damage to 100b.

Boom, greatsword is instantly better. Every part of warrior would benefit and it would give GS a melee cleave role baseline as well as restoring the “cool” factor to the weapon.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

kitten it, give me a 3 hit Arc Divider looking attack instead of 100b. Just make it do similar damage to 100b.

Boom, greatsword is instantly better. Every part of warrior would benefit and it would give GS a melee cleave role baseline as well as restoring the “cool” factor to the weapon.

Anet would nerf the F out of it if it had the same damage modifier as 100B. Just do the 3 Spin version of Arc Divider, turn the flame effects into a larger version of our normal blade trail effect, maybe normalize the range on all three strikes to be the same range. Something like 360 range on all three strikes.

[WingSwipe.3084]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Anet would nerf the F out of it if it had the same damage modifier as 100B. Just do the 3 Spin version of Arc Divider, turn the flame effects into a larger version of our normal blade trail effect, maybe normalize the range on all three strikes to be the same range. Something like 360 range on all three strikes.

Good suggestion, still would make a much better experience then 100b.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Good suggestion, still would make a much better experience then 100b.

It would.

[choovanski.5462]

replacing bladetrail with a block, counter, or cc would be massive.

add some utility to the weapon, & make 100b a cool spin you can move with, then you have a weapon thats almost as good as rev & ranger GS.

[WingSwipe.3084]

6 hours ago, choovanski.5462 said:

replacing bladetrail with a block, counter, or cc would be massive.

add some utility to the weapon, & make 100b a cool spin you can move with, then you have a weapon thats almost as good as rev & ranger GS.

Another cleaving attack would be welcome instead of a ranged one otherwise. Could be a block flip into a massive frontal cleave with 300 range

Really cement the weapon as the cleave tool of choice.

Id honestly just take another massive frontal cleave instead of bladetrail.

[Captain Crapface.7528]

6 hours ago, choovanski.5462 said:

replacing bladetrail with a block, counter, or cc would be massive.

&

11 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Id honestly just take another massive frontal cleave instead of bladetrail.

I understand where thease opinions are coming from, but It should not be underestimated how tailored towards controlling the spacing game greatsword is.

Whirlwind attack used in mele, puts you outside the mele range, and Bladetrail lets you harras from outside mele, making it easier to cath up to foes, or to kite them due to cripple, and helps you maintain the health advantage in between your cooldowns. - the more strategically you play the more value Bladetrail has.

If the skill was replaced with something, I think it should be similiar to Ranger's GS4 where block allows you to kick as a sequence skill. - In this case current Bladetrail would be the sequence skill cast from the block. - or at least that's what makes sense.

[WingSwipe.3084]

4 minutes ago, Captain Crapface.7528 said:

If the skill was replaced with something, I think it should be similiar to Ranger's GS4 where block allows you to kick as a sequence skill. - In this case current Bladetrail would be the sequence skill cast from the block. - or at least that's what makes sense.

Just getting a block into GS kit for warrior would be pretty ballin'.

If anything, id just like the Bladetrail projectile to be faster.

[Kinzu.5820]

On 10/16/2024 at 4:11 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

Actually, how about it hitting every enemy in its path towards the final target?

This, and/or make it float your target or target(s). The animations make it look like it should've, by default!

Edited Wednesday at 12:18 AM by Kinzu.5820

[Captain Crapface.7528]

TBH, the fact that we can't jump mid [Rush] is probably the biggest hindurance holding it back.
 
You can't scale a bloody rock, or a gap in terrain you could easily jump over otherwise, you get stuck on everything, and you're just at the mercy of terrain most of the time you play.
Such a bloody waste it is.

Edited Wednesday at 09:54 AM by Captain Crapface.7528