Deadeye needs at least 1 unblockable. Here's why

Remix.2086 · December 28, 2017

A duration based unblockable is needed to make deadeye more competitive. Right now we are super weak to any class with a reflect and/or block.

Deadeye is extremely high-risk-high-reward based when doing power. You make yourself extremely vulnerable by kneeling and being 1 gap closer away from your target.

In order to win a fight against another skilled player, you need to bait out any reflects, blocks, AND invuls they might have BEFORE you go for your damage. All the while you're fighting the kneel mechanic.

If we had a 4s unblockable (like basilisk used to be), but not basilisk because then it'd be broken again on daredevils. Rather through a cantrip so it could be instant cast.

I literally stopped playing deadeye for awhile because ranger does it so much better. A 6s unblockable signet that also grants movement speed passively?! Going into beastmode grants 4s unblockable, a stun break, AND stats from your pet. Most likely 200 ferocity 100 power. Also, if you run sword/warhorn. Warhorn gives beastmode rangers another 4s unblockable, 3 stacks of might, fury, and swiftness. AND THEY HAVE ACCESS TO 2 SIGNET OF STONE'S. That's 11s of invul to physical damage.

I have a couple videos on me doing 20k+ rapid fires unblockable instantly. Zero build up of malice or anything. Here are the links to the vids. I won't give out the build because I don't want the massive amounts of soulbeasts running this build.

I already have loads of dislikes from not posting my build, so don't bother asking lol.

Anyways, I feel deadeye would be in a much better place with a duration unblockable. Make it a cantrip so you have to play deadeye to get the unblockable.

Basilisk 1 hit being unblockable is not enough. Even if you could time it to hit during a reflect like magnetic aura, it wouldn't stop the reflect from happening.

Making deadeye only have to bait out invuls will make the class much friendlier in wvw/pvp.

It doesn't make sense to allow 1 ranged class to have multiple ways to be unblockable AND mobile. While the other lacks ANY unblockable and has to be stationary to deal big damage.

It makes more sense to me that a class like ranger would have ZERO ways to be unblockable because their mobility whilst being able to deal huge numbers. And a class like deadeye would have the multiple ways to be unblockable since they're stationary.

A well played soulbeast can stealth slightly less than a deadeye without shadow arts. Also, rangers have access to two signet of stones.

I've fought multiple deadeyes on my ranger and none stood a chance. Even if I'm getting blasted, I can swap to greatsword and get well out their range with the leap and gazelle charge. Swap back to longbow, reveal them with sic 'em (also gives me 40% damage) and 1 shot them.

Hopefully my videos help show the lack of balance between deadeye and soulbeast. I really want to play deadeye again.

Asur.9178 · December 28, 2017

It's almost like I said and have been saying lb soulbeast is a better "sniper" than deadeye since the betas....

Wargameur.6950 · December 28, 2017

You already have one, that's called instant reflexes in the acro traitline :p

Turk.5460 · December 28, 2017

Deadeye needs nothing to remain competitive in small scale WvW. In PvP, this may be a different story. WvW we are fine. Not being useful in a zerg is not a deadeye-exclusive problem, and due to the nature of the Thief profession as a whole, the vast majority of Thief players would not enjoy what would have to be changed to make us zerg-viable...

Kneel is not what makes the weaponset. It enhances the weaponset when you have the advantage to be safe enough to use it. Don't try to make your entire playstyle revolve around the kneel function and you will very quickly become much better at Rifle DE.

AikijinX.6258 · December 28, 2017

At 1:16 you're literally farther away than 1500 range, which goes with my thread about 1500 range on rifle needing to be looked at. It's ridiculous.

Remix.2086 · December 28, 2017

@"Turk.5460" said:Deadeye needs nothing to remain competitive in small scale WvW. In PvP, this may be a different story. WvW we are fine. Not being useful in a zerg is not a deadeye-exclusive problem, and due to the nature of the Thief profession as a whole, the vast majority of Thief players would not enjoy what would have to be changed to make us zerg-viable...
Kneel is not what makes the weaponset. It enhances the weaponset when you have the advantage to be safe enough to use it. Don't try to make your entire playstyle revolve around the kneel function and you will very quickly become much better at Rifle DE.

Except I have ran not using kneel, and you run into the same exact problems. Any class with an auto invul turns and laughs at you and destroys you. The only success you have is against melee builds because you just auto attack them and retreat to kite. Deadeye NEEDS an unblockable. Just because you can gank a couple zerglings running to the tag. Or blow your entire initiative pool double tapping someone with quickness while standing. Doesn't make deadeye viable.

I duo roam and solo roam 95% of the time. And deadeye does literally nothing compared to every other good roaming build. If they had 1 unblockable they would be so much more successful. When I roam duo on deadeye my buddy is normally kiting all day while I try to land a burst between mirage evade/reflect spam. Warrior shield 5 and endure pains. Rangers signets. Dragon hunters f2/3 whatever the block is. Holos stealth double invul and reflects. Acro thief auto invul and bandits defense. Deadeye has like three opportunities to deal damage. If you add an unblockable it multiplies those opportunities.

I never zerg on deadeye because you can't get close enough to do anything. If you separate yourself too much a ranger will pick you off easy.

The only success I have "roaming" with deadeye is when I party up with 4+ people and my opponents literally can't waste their time trying to find me in stealth because the other 3 will murder them.

Making an entire class only viable when you have 4+ people is a terrible idea.

I even have better success in spvp with deadeye than I do in wvw. as soon as a fight becomes outnumbered a deadeye is useless for the outnumbered side. If there's even 1 person who can peel to the deadeye, they will render him useless.

@Wargameur.6950 said:You already have one, that's called instant reflexes in the acro traitline :p

Tell me how you're acro trick deadeye rifle build does lol.

Remix.2086 · December 28, 2017

@"AikijinX.6258" said:At 1:16 you're literally farther away than 1500 range, which goes with my thread about 1500 range on rifle needing to be looked at. It's ridiculous.

Oh yeah, I abused that a ton in both my videos lol. Not to mention that "out of range" we all love to see when our target is definitely in that sweet range indicator they gave deadeyes.

alazol.8065 · December 28, 2017

I think your looking for assassin's signet...

Turk.5460 · December 28, 2017

@Remix.2086 said:
@"Turk.5460" said:Deadeye needs nothing to remain competitive in small scale WvW. In PvP, this may be a different story. WvW we are fine. Not being useful in a zerg is not a deadeye-exclusive problem, and due to the nature of the Thief profession as a whole, the vast majority of Thief players would not enjoy
what would have to be changed
to make us zerg-viable...
Kneel is not what makes the weaponset. It enhances the weaponset when you have the advantage to be safe enough to use it. Don't try to make your entire playstyle revolve around the kneel function and you will very quickly become much better at Rifle DE.

Except I have ran not using kneel, and you run into the same exact problems. Any class with an auto invul turns and laughs at you and destroys you. The only success you have is against melee builds because you just auto attack them and retreat to kite. Deadeye NEEDS an unblockable. Just because you can gank a couple zerglings running to the tag. Or blow your entire initiative pool double tapping someone with quickness while standing. Doesn't make deadeye viable.

I duo roam and solo roam 95% of the time. And deadeye does literally nothing compared to every other good roaming build. If they had 1 unblockable they would be so much more successful. When I roam duo on deadeye my buddy is normally kiting all day while I try to land a burst between mirage evade/reflect spam. Warrior shield 5 and endure pains. Rangers signets. Dragon hunters f2/3 whatever the block is. Holos stealth double invul and reflects. Acro thief auto invul and bandits defense. Deadeye has like three opportunities to deal damage. If you add an unblockable it multiplies those opportunities.

I never zerg on deadeye because you can't get close enough to do anything. If you separate yourself too much a ranger will pick you off easy.

The only success I have "roaming" with deadeye is when I party up with 4+ people and my opponents literally can't waste their time trying to find me in stealth because the other 3 will murder them.

Making an entire class only viable when you have 4+ people is a terrible idea.

I even have better success in spvp with deadeye than I do in wvw. as soon as a fight becomes outnumbered a deadeye is useless for the outnumbered side. If there's even 1 person who can peel to the deadeye, they will render him useless.

I'm sorry to say this, but the problems you are describing sound very much like an opportunity for you to learn and become a better Rifle DE. It sounds like you are tunnel-visioned in your fights and not playing as well as you could be.

We have 2 unblockables thanks to Shadow Meld. Due to superior kiting with DR and SS; Warriors, Dragonhunters (any variant of Guardian really), and Holosmiths (again, any engi) should be a free kill for you. You also hold the advantage over an acro-staff thief due to their incredibly limited range. It's good to have naturally harder to fight enemies like LB rangers, your build shouldn't counter every single other build out there...And even then, I generally win against LB Soulbeasts. Just interrupt their rapid fire with Mark and Shadow meld when their Signet of Stone is popped (roaming SlB's generally only run the passive, not the utility as well). Mercy and re-mark to interrupt followup rapid fire. All you need is some practice.

Tell me how you're acro trick deadeye rifle build does lol.

It performs equally well, and is actually preferable when you know your opponent is a 1-and-done build such as FA Weaver or Power Mesmer.

Remix.2086 · December 29, 2017

@alazol.8065 said:I think your looking for assassin's signet...

You mean the signet that grants 180 power passively then 540 for 5s on activation? That signet has NEVER granted unblockable. The only thing in thief history that granted a duration was basilisk. Which was promptly nerfed because that was crazy good.

bq pd.2148 · December 29, 2017

@Remix.2086 said:Please oh master thief make a video showing us you owning every holo and sb and dh. Sounds a lot to me that you don't fight anyone worth their salt. You probably jus accept it when you get smacked around on DE and don't realize that you could easily kill them with a different spec. Sure out of all those classes I listed. A vast majority are awful and can't win a fight against a decent player. But I would LOVE to see you fight Xan from vT on his holo and tell me it's a free kill. Or stawk on his holo or soulbeast and tell me that was an easy fight lol. You would be demolished in a heart beat.
good players are hard to kill on rifle deadeye as they as you descriped, can manage to avoid most of rifle deadeye damage. but you shouldnt get smacked by anyone as rifle DE as long as you dont make a mistake. there might be fights that never end but you shouldnt lose or you are to blame yourself ( speaking of 1 on 1 ).
I don't speak about shadow arts because if you ever roam in a real small group, no more than 3 and fight outnumbered not ganking solo's. You'd quickly realize that you're stealth the majority of the time not doing damage because you're the target lol. And when you're stealthed, you're not helping.
deadeye is not really valuable in a group when roaming unless he gets ignored by the opponents, i have yet to see where my enemies do that for more than 1-2 fights - but then again i rarely roam in group, mostly solo.
Saying deadeye is fine because you can gank zerglings and necro mains that don't know how to dodge is just ridiculous. You CLEARLY haven't faught anyone that plays well.
I have loads of footage of me ganking people on my deadeye. But it's in perfect situations. I have ZERO footage of me winning outnumbered fights even with a duo partner. Why is That? Because deadeye can't win outnumbered fights when the main roaming specs all have invuls,blocks, and reflects or some sort.
i must be fighting far worse opponents then you, i do get alot of kills on deadeye outnumbered tho ofc if they are too many they will just rez between the stomps or come back from spawn. or are you talking about outnumbered against decent players? you shouldnt win outnumbered against players on your skill level with any build.
I'd love to blow you up on my ranger versus your deadeye. My videos have multiple solo driver snipes. Drivers typically run full minstrel rofl. And I 1 shot them. The cast time for Mark to interrupt an already casted rapid fire from my build, you'd be dead before you got the cast off. 3k damage a hit on rapids. 7.5k auto attacks. That's more than full marauder BACKSTAB!
i also have sniped mutiple drivers solo with deadeye, tho that is pretty much their fault as they have to give me the opportunity for it and not hide behind someone else of their zerg when marked. so yes ranger is better for that, even with unblockable on deadeye the ranger would be better cause of pircing as deadeye cant reliably hit his target inside a group.Idk where you're seeing 2 unblockable thanks to shadow meld. Maybe you think 3s stealth outlast the 5s of block dh has and the 3s invul that recharges that block.
the unblockables he mentioned are Cursed Bullets i assume, but not the kind of unblockable buff you want.
And I hardly see anyone running acro staff. Staff is only good for zerging. It gets out performed by every other weapon set. And frankly gets countered by serpentine maneuver lol. Acro sword/dagger is the meta right now. Good luck kiting that around while they infiltrator strike to you from behind cover and return lol.
pretty much any thief that is not condi i have so far oneshot with backstab on deadeye, if i cant oneshot em they probably wont deal damage anyway. same with FA ele and mesmers - why would you use rifle if you can 20k+ backstab them ?
As far as I'm concerned. If you OOC during a fight. You've lost.
if none has a condition on him both will OOC at the same time, who lost then? the one that used a leap away or the one that didnt want to get kited?for me its simpe as i mostly fight in objectives, as long as i make stomps and bind people to me i won. if i get kicked/feared outside or killed i lost.
You're in a fantasy land if you think you stand a chance in a fight against a good player if youre using rifle. You say superior kiting can win against sb dh and holo lol. I'm assuming you mean shadowstep and rifle 4. Seeing as though it costs 4 init to cast retreat. And every melee class has multiple gap closers ESPECIALLY those three, you're left with saving every initiative for retreat, which means your pathetic 1.2k-2k autos in between all those invuls n blocks and reflects (I like to talk about) are simply ignored because you'll get maybe 1 or 2.
when is a player for you a good one? i mean even the best will make mistakes.. if they die to them are they then a bad player for one fight? DE doesnt die unless he makes a mistake, but yes better players can easily avoid most of DE rifle damge as it is shooting projectiles wich can make the fight last alot longer than if said deadeye was on a daredevil.
Your lack of knowledge and ignorance of deadeye is CLEAR evidence that you in fact do not fight outnumbered and most likely do not roam in the true sense of the word. A 5 man gank squad isn't roaming. Because any modern solo roamer or roamer knows in these times, the longer a fight lasts the more enemies will appear to aid their allies. If you think the time you're spending hiding in stealth to not get killed or to wait out their defenses isn't a long time. You need to actually try fighting out numbered. Youre leaving your allies to a -1 fight. So a 3vX turns into a 2vX.
you shouldnt fight outnumbered on Deadeye in a group. but 1 vs X outnumbered deadeye is fine in WvW as 99% of the players there wont dogge DJ so you can simply stealth camp and stomp one after the other sure they will rez each other and come back and get more with the time but binding alot of people to you is also very efficient.
Again. If DE had a duration unblockable it would open up so many avenues for the spec. If you like being useless and ganking completely bad players then remain off my thread. Make a thread of your own explaining why deadeye is fine and fight this same fight you're having with me, but with the rest of the thief community. I'm not going to say you're the problem, because let's be honest. You're not. You're part of the extreme minority that is blinded by the free noobcannon that deadeye is. Majority wanted those damage buffs that I'm sure your royal edginess was against as well. And it happened.
I'm simply comparing two ranged classes. And ones need for a duration unblockable.

in WvW i still kill alot of people and yes also outnumbered. daredevil is stronger against 1 good player, deadeye is stronger against an army or noobs. in WvW i mostly see huge groups of noobs so deadeye is better in that mode. and i am oke with fights against a better player lasting a bit longer in return.

so while i would also love a deadeye to get unblockable and ability to hit his target inside a group reliably, i know that i already do pretty well at roaming with it and am kind of afraid of the amount of QQ this would cause wich then again would lead to nerfs etc.

i personally would love Hidden Killer to grant unblockable instead of crit chance. because the only thing CS line does is increase damge and as far as i know very few non deadeyes use this in WvW / spvp. if on top of that our rifle bullets would ignore targets on their way to our target if it is marked, then DE would also be more usefull in groupfights.

but as said i would also do without those changes- i see only noobs, i am fine :D

Remix.2086 · December 29, 2017

@MUDse.7623 said:
@"Remix.2086" said:Please oh master thief make a video showing us you owning every holo and sb and dh. Sounds a lot to me that you don't fight anyone worth their salt. You probably jus accept it when you get smacked around on DE and don't realize that you could easily kill them with a different spec. Sure out of all those classes I listed. A vast majority are awful and can't win a fight against a decent player. But I would LOVE to see you fight Xan from vT on his holo and tell me it's a free kill. Or stawk on his holo or soulbeast and tell me that was an easy fight lol. You would be demolished in a heart beat.
good players are hard to kill on rifle deadeye as they as you descriped, can manage to avoid most of rifle deadeye damage. but you shouldnt get smacked by anyone as rifle DE as long as you dont make a mistake. there might be fights that never end but you shouldnt lose or you are to blame yourself ( speaking of 1 on 1 ).
I don't speak about shadow arts because if you ever roam in a real small group, no more than 3 and fight outnumbered not ganking solo's. You'd quickly realize that you're stealth the majority of the time not doing damage because you're the target lol. And when you're stealthed, you're not helping.
deadeye is not really valuable in a group when roaming unless he gets ignored by the opponents, i have yet to see where my enemies do that for more than 1-2 fights - but then again i rarely roam in group, mostly solo.
Saying deadeye is fine because you can gank zerglings and necro mains that don't know how to dodge is just ridiculous. You CLEARLY haven't faught anyone that plays well.
I have loads of footage of me ganking people on my deadeye. But it's in perfect situations. I have ZERO footage of me winning outnumbered fights even with a duo partner. Why is That? Because deadeye can't win outnumbered fights when the main roaming specs all have invuls,blocks, and reflects or some sort.
i must be fighting far worse opponents then you, i do get alot of kills on deadeye outnumbered tho ofc if they are too many they will just rez between the stomps or come back from spawn. or are you talking about outnumbered against decent players? you shouldnt win outnumbered against players on your skill level with any build.
I'd love to blow you up on my ranger versus your deadeye. My videos have multiple solo driver snipes. Drivers typically run full minstrel rofl. And I 1 shot them. The cast time for Mark to interrupt an already casted rapid fire from my build, you'd be dead before you got the cast off. 3k damage a hit on rapids. 7.5k auto attacks. That's more than full marauder BACKSTAB!
i also have sniped mutiple drivers solo with deadeye, tho that is pretty much their fault as they have to give me the opportunity for it and not hide behind someone else of their zerg when marked. so yes ranger is better for that, even with unblockable on deadeye the ranger would be better cause of pircing as deadeye cant reliably hit his target inside a group.Idk where you're seeing 2 unblockable thanks to shadow meld. Maybe you think 3s stealth outlast the 5s of block dh has and the 3s invul that recharges that block.
the unblockables he mentioned are Cursed Bullets i assume, but not the kind of unblockable buff you want.
And I hardly see anyone running acro staff. Staff is only good for zerging. It gets out performed by every other weapon set. And frankly gets countered by serpentine maneuver lol. Acro sword/dagger is the meta right now. Good luck kiting that around while they infiltrator strike to you from behind cover and return lol.
pretty much any thief that is not condi i have so far oneshot with backstab on deadeye, if i cant oneshot em they probably wont deal damage anyway. same with FA ele and mesmers - why would you use rifle if you can 20k+ backstab them ?
As far as I'm concerned. If you OOC during a fight. You've lost.
if none has a condition on him both will OOC at the same time, who lost then? the one that used a leap away or the one that didnt want to get kited?for me its simpe as i mostly fight in objectives, as long as i make stomps and bind people to me i won. if i get kicked/feared outside or killed i lost.
You're in a fantasy land if you think you stand a chance in a fight against a good player if youre using rifle. You say superior kiting can win against sb dh and holo lol. I'm assuming you mean shadowstep and rifle 4. Seeing as though it costs 4 init to cast retreat. And every melee class has multiple gap closers ESPECIALLY those three, you're left with saving every initiative for retreat, which means your pathetic 1.2k-2k autos in between all those invuls n blocks and reflects (I like to talk about) are simply ignored because you'll get maybe 1 or 2.
when is a player for you a good one? i mean even the best will make mistakes.. if they die to them are they then a bad player for one fight? DE doesnt die unless he makes a mistake, but yes better players can easily avoid most of DE rifle damge as it is shooting projectiles wich can make the fight last alot longer than if said deadeye was on a daredevil.
Your lack of knowledge and ignorance of deadeye is CLEAR evidence that you in fact do not fight outnumbered and most likely do not roam in the true sense of the word. A 5 man gank squad isn't roaming. Because any modern solo roamer or roamer knows in these times, the longer a fight lasts the more enemies will appear to aid their allies. If you think the time you're spending hiding in stealth to not get killed or to wait out their defenses isn't a long time. You need to actually try fighting out numbered. Youre leaving your allies to a -1 fight. So a 3vX turns into a 2vX.
you shouldnt fight outnumbered on Deadeye in a group. but 1 vs X outnumbered deadeye is fine in WvW as 99% of the players there wont dogge DJ so you can simply stealth camp and stomp one after the other sure they will rez each other and come back and get more with the time but binding alot of people to you is also very efficient.
Again. If DE had a duration unblockable it would open up so many avenues for the spec. If you like being useless and ganking completely bad players then remain off my thread. Make a thread of your own explaining why deadeye is fine and fight this same fight you're having with me, but with the rest of the thief community. I'm not going to say you're the problem, because let's be honest. You're not. You're part of the extreme minority that is blinded by the free noobcannon that deadeye is. Majority wanted those damage buffs that I'm sure your royal edginess was against as well. And it happened.
I'm simply comparing two ranged classes. And ones need for a duration unblockable.

in WvW i still kill alot of people and yes also outnumbered. daredevil is stronger against 1 good player, deadeye is stronger against an army or noobs. in WvW i mostly see huge groups of noobs so deadeye is better in that mode. and i am oke with fights against a better player lasting a bit longer in return.

so while i would also love a deadeye to get unblockable and ability to hit his target inside a group reliably, i know that i already do pretty well at roaming with it and am kind of afraid of the amount of QQ this would cause wich then again would lead to nerfs etc.

i personally would love Hidden Killer to grant unblockable instead of crit chance. because the only thing CS line does is increase damge and as far as i know very few non deadeyes use this in WvW / spvp. if on top of that our rifle bullets would ignore targets on their way to our target if it is marked, then DE would also be more usefull in groupfights.

but as said i would also do without those changes- i see only noobs, i am fine :D

Idk what your point was with this reply... You basically agreed and reconfirmed with everything I said. But some of your counters sound like youre permastealthing on deadeye, which makes your argument invalid because as I said before. That's useless and you're allowing your allies to get killed.

I don't need to wait for a driver to open himself up for a snipe on ranger. And even after they've been sniped once and keep reflects and projectile hate on themselves, I can still snipe because 6s unblockable.

It's a clear decision on who left the fight for an OOC. If you stealthed and ran OOC while your opponent is standing there waiting to fight. You've given up. Don't be one of "those" thieves that OOC's everytime they get wrecked to recharge cd's and come back over and over.

You kept saying you don't fight outnumbered on deadeye because they cant. And that's a huge problem. I have footage of me 1v4'ing on power d/d daredevil. I also have loads of footage on ranger 1v3'ing. Shoot, my second vid shows a 1v3 that lasted like 10s.

I clearly stated that the issue lies in small scale lol. Of course you could pew pew inside a zerg and as long as you didn't go Rambo, you'd survive a long time. Probably won't get nearly as many kills as the golden boy ranger. But you'd get like 1/3rd the bags.

What I meant for outnumbered is 2v3,4,5. My duo bud and I love fights. We win more of those type of fights than we lose. For you to just want to run away because you're outnumbered is a clear sign that you lack confidence in deadeye, or your abilities with deadeye.

But then you follow it with how deadeye is fine and as long as you can kite you're good. So tell me about the fights in close quarters where you can't spam retreat. And if you stealth you're still in aoe. How do those fights fare for you? Because every other thief spec or roaming spec exceeds in that type of combat.

That's the easiest way to win outnumbered is grouping them up and aoe'ing them all. And deadeye just dies. Maybe get some damage off on a kid that is only there because he saw allies. If you don't get body blocked by the other roaming group.

You sound like one of the thieves that just runs from every fight you know you won't win. You don't challenge yourself to see if you can. And you've basically said you can't challenge yourself because of how bad deadeye is.

If you're concerned about nerfs if this does become a thing. Remember those ranger vids I posted? It's like justification for these buffs or something. Weird. And both you and Turk missed the point of my OP.

Why allow ranger to do what we were designed to do, but not allow us to do it.

Everyone that has fought a permastealth DE knows the best thing to do is to simply walk away to force his cooldowns to keep up with you, then when he pops DJ for the 30k bomb invul/dodge and go get him. Or just keep walking, they can't keep up. Just like old trap thieves. So if that's your concern that they'd need your permastealth build if you could have a few seconds of unblockable, I doubt ANet would care.

We could either get buffed or nerf rangers if we bring up enough threads about my OP. I'm fine with either. But don't sit here struggling to play deadeye while ranger has godmode snipe stats and tools. Did you watch those ranger vids? You're fine with those? Lol because I haven't seen a deadeye do that. Nor will I ever.

Turk.5460 · December 29, 2017

@OP there is no need to be so defensive. Forget your pride for a moment and try to see the bigger picture. I have nothing to gain from lying about what I can or cannot win against. I don't want to make a video, because I don't care enough to; I want to play the game, not prove to someone on the forums that they are not as good as they think they are, especially if they are having any troubles with DH and Holosmiths. Spellbreakers I admit are slightly more tedious if they have bull's charge equipped, but you still hold the advantage over them.

Holo roamers have nothing to catch up to you save Jump Shot, which has quite the cooldown, their only ranged is going to be their rifle auto, which will not out-damage your rifle. If you get caught by a Holo-Forge burst, that is on you, as you have every tool to easily avoid it every time. The range on Photon Blitz is far too short to reach you if you are playing even remotely conscious, and Holo Leap can only cover 600 units, and on a 2s cooldown, wheras you have DR, Withdraw, RFI, and SS.

I don't even know how you are dying to DH's, unless you are failing to dodge the incredibly large tell that comes along with Spear of Justice. And even if you fail to dodge it, after over 2 years of DH hard-countering Thieves, your first reaction should be to ShadowStep far enough away to break the tether. Here's how this fight goes. Engage with mark, burst. Now they had to use RF. Mercy - re-mark. Did they use Shield of Courage? Great, they think they're safe, now shadow meld and use Cursed Bullet to make them panic. Shield of Courage has now run out - mark - burst. The moment they port to you with either Symbol of Blades or JI you should be hitting DR twice. Don't be afraid to use Withdraw as an extra evade, even if you don't need any healing, especially if you are using it to avoid something like True Shot or Spear of Justice. Did they use shield bubble? Great, swap weapons and go in for melee - having s/p as secondary is for these types of anti-projectile scenarios.

Like I said, you need some practice. Two of the specific professions you mentioned you are having difficulty with are practically hard-countered by Rifle DE. Also, as I believe I mentioned before, I do not use Shadow Arts. I only disengage OOC if I am not the one to start the fight, and they get the engage first. I determine when the fight starts. As a Thief we have that privilege.

My build is:DA mid/mid/mid, Trickery, DE mid/mid/mid.Mix of Marauder's and Zerk gear (14.5k hp) - Pack Runes - Power infusions.Rifle: Sigil of Force/AirSword/Pistol: Sigils of Rage/BloodlustFood: Oysters with Cocktail Sauce (this is incredibly helpful) -10% Damage Taken, 70 PrecisionUtility: Superior Sharpening StoneWintersday Earmuffs (to help against Chill....................j/k, even though I shouldn't have to add a j/k)

I should also add that I do not use Death's Judgement or Kneel unless I am defending an objective on top of a wall.

kash.9213 · December 29, 2017

You're doing something and/or another coming out of stealth though right? You're not just running around or anything. Rifle is pretty strong coming out of stealth and even if you don't get to full malice by Death's Judgment, DJ itself piles on and Revealed Malice is nice with rifle and Cloak and Dagger. Can't say I know what I'm doing out there but I just kind of slowly pour out my rifle while turning or dragging people and let them walk into my stuff or go to s/d and try to push them out of their chosen ground. I'm not about to chase people across a map or have a half hour fight with people, that's dumb, we got a reward track to think about.

Remix.2086 · December 29, 2017

@kash.9213 said:You're doing something and/or another coming out of stealth though right? You're not just running around or anything. Rifle is pretty strong coming out of stealth and even if you don't get to full malice by Death's Judgment, DJ itself piles on and Revealed Malice is nice with rifle and Cloak and Dagger. Can't say I know what I'm doing out there but I just kind of slowly pour out my rifle while turning or dragging people and let them walk into my stuff or go to s/d and try to push them out of their chosen ground. I'm not about to chase people across a map or have a half hour fight with people, that's dumb, we got a reward track to think about.

Too bad a half hour fight is what happens when you fight a good player. Because you don't have anything to make them pay for mistakes. So those long fights are definitely against the better players. A good player isn't going to let a deadeye just freely pew pew them lol. If a deadeye starts getting pressured, the DE can't deal damage. That's a whole other issue. Right now I'm talking about how much more competitive a DE would be with 1, 4s duration unblockable.

Those long fights wouldn't be very long anymore if you timed your unblockable well.

Turk.5460 · December 29, 2017

No, I don't make videos, nor do I want to take the time to, nor do I have anything to prove to you. Please calm yourself and act more mature. However, if you'd like to show us a video of you roaming, since you have already made videos and seem to like doing so, we here can critique it and tell you what you are doing wrong.

I almost exclusively roam solo on DE, I highly doubt that each of the hundreds of other solo roamers I encounter and defeat weekly have been "noobs." I'm not even an amazing player, I do lose some 1v1's, but not nearly as much as I win. And I have not lost lost 1v1 to a DH or Holo while playing Rifle DE since before a few weeks after PoF dropped. I've said my piece, I know it to be true, but believe what you will. You are clearly not as good of a player as you think you are, and are far too defensive of that delusion to reason with. Good luck out there, I hope you improve your DE skills and look back on your posts here. :+1:

Edit: I just came across some of OP's other posts in the Ranger subforum. I recommend nobody else entertain him further, he is not receptive to criticism at all.

kash.9213 · December 29, 2017

How good are those good players if they take a half hour to kill a guy who's not doing damage with a rifle? I kind of get what your op is about but your arguments are really convoluted and confusing considering you're taking a masterful tone but refuse to talk about builds or any details as to why you're not making DE or rifle work for you. If you want another unblockable whatever throw it on Binding Shadow maybe since that's a single target cantrip. Not many people use that Utility but those few who do claim it works well for what it does though it could get a little overpowered with everything else it does.

bq pd.2148 · December 29, 2017

@Remix.2086 said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@Remix.2086 said:Please oh master thief make a video showing us you owning every holo and sb and dh. Sounds a lot to me that you don't fight anyone worth their salt. You probably jus accept it when you get smacked around on DE and don't realize that you could easily kill them with a different spec. Sure out of all those classes I listed. A vast majority are awful and can't win a fight against a decent player. But I would LOVE to see you fight Xan from vT on his holo and tell me it's a free kill. Or stawk on his holo or soulbeast and tell me that was an easy fight lol. You would be demolished in a heart beat.
good players are hard to kill on rifle deadeye as they as you descriped, can manage to avoid most of rifle deadeye damage. but you shouldnt get smacked by anyone as rifle DE as long as you dont make a mistake. there might be fights that never end but you shouldnt lose or you are to blame yourself ( speaking of 1 on 1 ).
I don't speak about shadow arts because if you ever roam in a real small group, no more than 3 and fight outnumbered not ganking solo's. You'd quickly realize that you're stealth the majority of the time not doing damage because you're the target lol. And when you're stealthed, you're not helping.
deadeye is not really valuable in a group when roaming unless he gets ignored by the opponents, i have yet to see where my enemies do that for more than 1-2 fights - but then again i rarely roam in group, mostly solo.
Saying deadeye is fine because you can gank zerglings and necro mains that don't know how to dodge is just ridiculous. You CLEARLY haven't faught anyone that plays well.
I have loads of footage of me ganking people on my deadeye. But it's in perfect situations. I have ZERO footage of me winning outnumbered fights even with a duo partner. Why is That? Because deadeye can't win outnumbered fights when the main roaming specs all have invuls,blocks, and reflects or some sort.
i must be fighting far worse opponents then you, i do get alot of kills on deadeye outnumbered tho ofc if they are too many they will just rez between the stomps or come back from spawn. or are you talking about outnumbered against decent players? you shouldnt win outnumbered against players on your skill level with any build.
I'd love to blow you up on my ranger versus your deadeye. My videos have multiple solo driver snipes. Drivers typically run full minstrel rofl. And I 1 shot them. The cast time for Mark to interrupt an already casted rapid fire from my build, you'd be dead before you got the cast off. 3k damage a hit on rapids. 7.5k auto attacks. That's more than full marauder BACKSTAB!
i also have sniped mutiple drivers solo with deadeye, tho that is pretty much their fault as they have to give me the opportunity for it and not hide behind someone else of their zerg when marked. so yes ranger is better for that, even with unblockable on deadeye the ranger would be better cause of pircing as deadeye cant reliably hit his target inside a group.Idk where you're seeing 2 unblockable thanks to shadow meld. Maybe you think 3s stealth outlast the 5s of block dh has and the 3s invul that recharges that block.
the unblockables he mentioned are Cursed Bullets i assume, but not the kind of unblockable buff you want.
And I hardly see anyone running acro staff. Staff is only good for zerging. It gets out performed by every other weapon set. And frankly gets countered by serpentine maneuver lol. Acro sword/dagger is the meta right now. Good luck kiting that around while they infiltrator strike to you from behind cover and return lol.
pretty much any thief that is not condi i have so far oneshot with backstab on deadeye, if i cant oneshot em they probably wont deal damage anyway. same with FA ele and mesmers - why would you use rifle if you can 20k+ backstab them ?
As far as I'm concerned. If you OOC during a fight. You've lost.
if none has a condition on him both will OOC at the same time, who lost then? the one that used a leap away or the one that didnt want to get kited?for me its simpe as i mostly fight in objectives, as long as i make stomps and bind people to me i won. if i get kicked/feared outside or killed i lost.
You're in a fantasy land if you think you stand a chance in a fight against a good player if youre using rifle. You say superior kiting can win against sb dh and holo lol. I'm assuming you mean shadowstep and rifle 4. Seeing as though it costs 4 init to cast retreat. And every melee class has multiple gap closers ESPECIALLY those three, you're left with saving every initiative for retreat, which means your pathetic 1.2k-2k autos in between all those invuls n blocks and reflects (I like to talk about) are simply ignored because you'll get maybe 1 or 2.
when is a player for you a good one? i mean even the best will make mistakes.. if they die to them are they then a bad player for one fight? DE doesnt die unless he makes a mistake, but yes better players can easily avoid most of DE rifle damge as it is shooting projectiles wich can make the fight last alot longer than if said deadeye was on a daredevil.
Your lack of knowledge and ignorance of deadeye is CLEAR evidence that you in fact do not fight outnumbered and most likely do not roam in the true sense of the word. A 5 man gank squad isn't roaming. Because any modern solo roamer or roamer knows in these times, the longer a fight lasts the more enemies will appear to aid their allies. If you think the time you're spending hiding in stealth to not get killed or to wait out their defenses isn't a long time. You need to actually try fighting out numbered. Youre leaving your allies to a -1 fight. So a 3vX turns into a 2vX.
you shouldnt fight outnumbered on Deadeye in a group. but 1 vs X outnumbered deadeye is fine in WvW as 99% of the players there wont dogge DJ so you can simply stealth camp and stomp one after the other sure they will rez each other and come back and get more with the time but binding alot of people to you is also very efficient.
Again. If DE had a duration unblockable it would open up so many avenues for the spec. If you like being useless and ganking completely bad players then remain off my thread. Make a thread of your own explaining why deadeye is fine and fight this same fight you're having with me, but with the rest of the thief community. I'm not going to say you're the problem, because let's be honest. You're not. You're part of the extreme minority that is blinded by the free noobcannon that deadeye is. Majority wanted those damage buffs that I'm sure your royal edginess was against as well. And it happened.
I'm simply comparing two ranged classes. And ones need for a duration unblockable.