Microsoft Xp.9438 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Let me first just say that I have been an avid fan of guild wars for going on 11 years now... I have watched both games grow Guild Wars 1 & 2. I have been actively playing in the pvp world of guild wars for about 6 of those years on and off.. I've played early Tomb of the primeval king and went to halls with the old necro spikes and IWAY groups. To watch it grow into Heroes Ascent and play a lot more balanced builds there. I've played GVG; even got to get destroyed against teams like The Last Pride and Esoteric Warriors. I played random arenas team arenas. Even hero battles one of my most favorite PVP games from gw1. I played that game at its prime for many years and watched it slowly fade with the everyone anticipating and waiting for gw2 and yes we did wait for a very very long time after the initial hype... It did take me a bit to buy gw2 I think I waited a year after its initial release to purchase the game. I played it non stop for about a year got my ranger to 80 beat all the quests got my legendary did some other fun stuff and jumped into PVP. I must say when I first went into PVP I was a little sad to only see 5v5 coming from former 8v8, 4v4, (1v1's with heroes). Thinking back to GW1 that was one of the most fun and memorable experiences of the game sitting in a ventrillo or Teamspeak Server with all your friends talking smack and telling jokes all the while always playing seriously and ready to win! I soon found a group of about 7-8 people that I really enjoyed PVP with in GW2 we would all rotate and take turns and we had a blast doing it. Fortunately for myself I was able to climb the leaderboards all the way to the top 10 and remained there until the end of the test season. Eventually I took a break from the game where I hadn't played for about 1-2 years. I returned only to jump straight back into PVP. At first let me say I was a little blown back with all the new changes. I was excited I said ooh more loot that's cool... oh and they do seasons now that's pretty cool too and tournaments all this stuff! I started playing again playing all these matches felt like every team I joined I was on the winning team win after win after win I think i got like a solid 15-20 wins with no losses. Was having a great time getting all of these wins everyone was talking having a good time in chat. Than one day I log on go to play my normal routine and bam.... all the sudden its like im in a losing streak now I think at one point I lost like 10 games in a row... Coming from someone who has competitively played gw1 and gw2 and tried to climb GVG, HB, and PVP Leaderboards this was bit disappointing for me. I kept playing I thought maybe it was my build!?! So I switched it up I tried everything..... Class after class I started to realize it didn't matter what I was playing it was who I was playing with.... The amount of toxic I'm better than you are attitudes in PVP is just so absurdly wrong its not even fun to play it anymore. Don't get me wrong its PVP aren't we supposed to have those attitudes? The problem is that we have these toxic people on our own teams that will purposely and don't care if they ruin it for other people. I just don't even know what to say for PVP anymore I don't see myself on this game much longer as I've seen just about everything I love in gw1 and gw2 slowly diminish and plunder. As for advice on how to bring pvp back? I don't think I have any one right answer to solve this dilemma. The few problems I currently see:The rewards are way to much we have a lot of people in here just for the rewards and they don't care if they win or they lose. (I was able to make about 200g in not long of playing pvp again.)The matchmaking is not balanced... No matter what you say about rating having one bad person on the team can make you lose that match... I myself even though I'm currently in the Gold Tier find myself in bronze matches half of the time...Why on earth did we take teams out of PVP games are not fun when you play them by yourself its much more fun to have a group to yell and rage at and make sure we're not making the same mistakes time after time.. I know I know I can play tournaments tho? and wait for special intervals to play that? nah i have a job I have a life When I have free time I wanna play...Honestly at the current state I feel like I'm playing with people who are botting.. I have guys on my team who know there are 4 opposing players on that point and they will still run into it by themselves... I dk why they think 1v4 is ever an intelligent move. They still run in though... They Try to do something?Lastly the amount of rage. I feel like the general consensus is that no one is happy with the current state. At the start of the game the 4 rushing mid we lose the mid fight one splits off to go take far and I have someone saying in my team chat GG why are u going far we lose now. 9/10 times it starts a fight resulting in 1 person afking for the rest of the game.... (LOL I wish I was kidding...)I really hope this opens up more discussions and maybe more suggestions on how to fix PVP and bring the competitive feel back to it.Thank you for reading,Microsoft Xp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flauvious.6195 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 The gold rewards are fine, the way it's supposed to be is bad people flood in for rewards, get wrecked by people who play regularly for competition, and go crawling back to pve when their loss streak barely moves the rewards bar.The problem is now we have things like scourge to carry bad players through reward tracks and chests without even knowing what their skills do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velimere.7685 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I've been changing channels; I don't see them on the TV shows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon.6743 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I feel exactly the same. And I think the current system is punishing good players. The matchup algorithm should be something like to calculate the average ability of a team.So for example, you get constantly top stats then you have higher hidden scores, each time the macthup will calculate the two teams based on this score. So it means the better you are, more chances you will be put in a below average team. I cannot say I have proof of this, but the win rate on my 3 toons told me this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobin.8509 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Yet without reward tracks no one plays spvp at all. They could tighten up the matchmaking but that means longer queue times which will also result in rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microsoft Xp.9438 Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 Regardless of the queue times the current state isn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 The rewards arent really "alot" they just arent really tied with u know "being gud" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 @Demon.6743 said:I feel exactly the same. And I think the current system is punishing good players. The matchup algorithm should be something like to calculate the average ability of a team.So for example, you get constantly top stats then you have higher hidden scores, each time the macthup will calculate the two teams based on this score. So it means the better you are, more chances you will be put in a below average team. I cannot say I have proof of this, but the win rate on my 3 toons told me this.Top stats aren't an indicator of good play. Actually, thinking that they are demonstrates poor play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volrath.1473 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Where'd all the good people go?I've been changing channelsI don't see them on the TV showsWhere'd all the good people go?We got heaps and heaps of what we sowThey got this and thatWith a rattle a tatTesting one two,Man, what you gonna do?Bad news, misused,Got too much to loseGimme some truthNow whose side are we on?Whatever you sayTurn on the boob tubeI'm in the mood to obeySo lead me astrayAnd by the way, nowWhere'd all the good people go?I've been changing channelsI don't see them on the TV showsWhere'd all the good people go?We got heaps and heaps of what we sow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abazigal.3679 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 @Microsoft Xp.9438 said:We've always had builds that are easy for scrubs to learn. I still think the rewards are too high...I do agree with the builds part unfortunately. I share the same experience you do, 11 years player, played Heroes Ascent on Iway time, then hero battles mostly at quite a high level. i played countless games there, probably over 15000. Enjoyed playing builds that couldn't do everything, whether it was running dual melder with no damage or triple packers with no healing. So far, even until most recently in GW2, i appreciated trying to find tactics in solo queue in order to revert situations or even finding a way to win safely. Since PoF, you hardly can do anything. It's about chasing one target over and over, same setups ( scourges, spellbreakers and firebrands) that have no explicit counter. Quarterfinals in AT all do run that setup. Hopefully, there are still fun matchs, but builds i mentionned do ruin the game, and there is no strategy involved anymore. That's pretty much why i guess players are leaving. Probably same as me or you that played the old system or guild wars 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartarus.1082 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Honestly I don't think the rewards are either to high nor are they especially relavent to the current state of pvp. Otherwise I mostly agree.If they nerf the rewards then why play pvp it's not like the state of the game is particularly entertaining with the current balance. In fact the gold reward isn't even that significant compared to some of the better pve gold farms.The real problem is a stale game mode, limited dev investment, and lazy balance. Players only invest into "getting good" if the gameplay is enjoyable and none of the top players left because "the rewards are to good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon.6743 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 @DaShi.1368 said:@Demon.6743 said:I feel exactly the same. And I think the current system is punishing good players. The matchup algorithm should be something like to calculate the average ability of a team.So for example, you get constantly top stats then you have higher hidden scores, each time the macthup will calculate the two teams based on this score. So it means the better you are, more chances you will be put in a below average team. I cannot say I have proof of this, but the win rate on my 3 toons told me this.Top stats aren't an indicator of good play. Actually, thinking that they are demonstrates poor play.Do you know what those indicators mean? I'm so tired of ppls do not know what they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelisk.4527 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 @Demon.6743 said:@DaShi.1368 said:@Demon.6743 said:I feel exactly the same. And I think the current system is punishing good players. The matchup algorithm should be something like to calculate the average ability of a team.So for example, you get constantly top stats then you have higher hidden scores, each time the macthup will calculate the two teams based on this score. So it means the better you are, more chances you will be put in a below average team. I cannot say I have proof of this, but the win rate on my 3 toons told me this.Top stats aren't an indicator of good play. Actually, thinking that they are demonstrates poor play.Do you know what those indicators mean? I'm so tired of ppls do not know what they are talking about.If you and the opposing team member fight on far all day long on a neutral point the whole game and you get top offense/defense how is that considered good play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 To answer the title: The "good" people left because they got tired of a game that was balanced to carry bad players and make them feel better rather than having them practice to get better. Lack of competitive focused balance created a ton of issues and annoyances which they eventually decided they were done dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 i stopped playing pvp altogether back in 2016 when i seen changes happen i did not like at all. and the changes i seen since then makes me happy i stopped playing pvp when i did for me the real thing that i hated the most was the end game pedestals winners and losers on the ground thing that one after i stopped playing and seen anet put that into the game . made me even more happy i stopped pvp altogether as a whole !!! :/ i am just lucky i got to level 20 when i stopped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggityzog.7389 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Condition and spam wars 2 after HoT turned alot of people off of pvp. There were so many man single cuts along the way that hurt pvp and pushed some people away. Going from the good old days of GLORY and not having pvp rewards for just pvp ruined alot because the pve reward hunters swarmed in for free stuffs. Condition wars 2 with Hot and Condition Wars 2.5 with PoF turned even more away.P.S this is just one issue on top of stale gameplay, match manipulation, bots...... .... .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xar.1387 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Its simple. No esport = No PvP these days.Even WoW (PvE game) got their e-sport championships and stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 @Xar.1387 said:Its simple. No esport = No PvP these days.Even WoW (PvE game) got their e-sport tournaments and stuffyou must be new to the game . back when anet tried to force e-sports down the player base mouth . well that went over really so well the player base then stopped playing the game altogether every time they seen coming across the log in and in game play screens the hey come watch our esl e-sports pvp event going on . anet tries to do that again well it be more worse than the last time they tired it you can take that to the bank :# :# :# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon.6743 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 @Abelisk.4527 said:@Demon.6743 said:@DaShi.1368 said:@Demon.6743 said:I feel exactly the same. And I think the current system is punishing good players. The matchup algorithm should be something like to calculate the average ability of a team.So for example, you get constantly top stats then you have higher hidden scores, each time the macthup will calculate the two teams based on this score. So it means the better you are, more chances you will be put in a below average team. I cannot say I have proof of this, but the win rate on my 3 toons told me this.Top stats aren't an indicator of good play. Actually, thinking that they are demonstrates poor play.Do you know what those indicators mean? I'm so tired of ppls do not know what they are talking about.If you and the opposing team member fight on far all day long on a neutral point the whole game and you get top offense/defense how is that considered good playTop stats mean fight on far? Again, so many trolls, you are a typical one for those bad players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finkle.9513 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Due to all the hacking and speed hacks that are immune from any skills that effect movement speed, i login for dailies win 1 game then log off. Im sure a lot do this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Nobody has ever had to be "good" to excel at GW2 PvP. Everyone left because the game is fundamentally flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microsoft Xp.9438 Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 I think another huge piece I left out from all of this is the different game types we are used to now we have one mode and mode only RANDOM ARENA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggityzog.7389 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 After playing all of gw1 then coming to gw2 i can say Ranked does feel like random arena and you have a rng style feel of either getting bad players or bots. Now in gw2 its bots, bad people that don't care, match manipulators, and afks/pve reward hunters. Funny thing is compared to the first few seasons where it was some decently competitive pvp with 1 - maybe 3. Unranked stronghold feels more like ranked now. Conq is zzz ZZZ zzz Roll bow teef #5 win games. Then you have all the trash listed above.Unranked is quite nice all year round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I don't think the rewards are necessarily too high compared to time invested... But I do think that adding ascended (and ESPECIALLY legendary) gear to the PvP venders is somewhat of a mistake. First off, you don't even use gear in sPvP, so it's a little out of place... And while I guess being able to farm out ascended gear is a good motivating factor to get people to keep queueing, the Legendary Armor has brought in a whole slew of new terrible people and bots who don't even have the desire to get better. They see it as a way to get their Legendary Armor without having to get good enough to raid, and if they can't be bothered to get good enough to raid, they CERTAINLY won't be able to get good enough to be competitive in PvP.IMO PvP rewards should just be things like unique skins, mini's, titles, MOUNT SKINS, and things like that... I mean, bad people will still come in to farm them if they're cool enough, but it at least won't be seen as a way for people to obtain things that they're not good enough to get in PvE, since you get them win or lose, trying or afk'ing, via PvP/WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microsoft Xp.9438 Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 Look at hero battles for example... It was great like really they added in rewards over time and over time the rewards got really out of hand... and then what happened it turned into a huge /resign game with people creating second accounts so they could just queue and /resign together. Hero battles then had to be taken out completely... PVP isn't about in game rewards PVP is about being competitive and climbing a leader boards to be able to say that you are the best of the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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