Dagger Mainhand

[Sarrs.4831]

What is this weapon supposed to be good for? Axe beats it at just about everything.Dagger is supposed to be better for sustain but staying at range is very good for sustain.The damage burst of axe 2 is better than the sustained damage that dagger brings.The boonflip on axe has half the cooldown and is an AoE effect.

It should not compete with Greatsword as a power weapon at all. ESpec weapon should be better than core weapon.It can't compete with Axe as a second-set weapon.It needs to try to fit as a 'main' weapon for core Necromancer or Scourge.

I am thinking single target lockdown/sustain weapon. With this in mind:AA chain 3 corrupts a boon. When in doubt, add a boon corrupt! Combines Scepter's slow, consistent boonflipping in the autochain with Axe's on-demand boonflip on 3. High risk as Necromancer to try to facemunch with dagger, but good Lifeforce and quick corrupts is high reward.Life Siphon pulses Cripple on the target and Resistance on the Necromancer. Resistance stops movement-impairing conditions and lets you catch up to a Crippled target. Suppressing other conditions is a nice bonus.Dark Pact also applies Weakness (3s) to help with sustain. Shorter CD (15-20sec). 25sec CD is insane for how little Dark Pact does! Maybe increased Immob+Weakness duration for each boon flipped (big maybe).Get rid of the self-bleeding stuff.

Maybe usable in PvP/WvW now. Might be okay for a Power/Healer Scourge; lots of boonflip traits.

Quickening Thirst kinda sucks. Health threshold CD reduction is eh, not an interesting identity, and movespeed is also eh when you can get good Swiftness in many other ways. Even Locust Signet isn't bad.Maybe change to "healing, damage and life leech you cause while you have Swiftness increased by 10%. Life Siphon will now grant you Swiftness per pulse, and your Dagger skills' CDs are reduced by 20%".Maybe this is just futzing about and Quickening Thirst doesn't need anything though.

[Runiir.6425]

I never used the dagger much at all. It doesn't do enough damage or life leech to warrant going into melee range for me. It would have made sense if it was a mid range casting weapon IMO. Leave the numbers alone just make it mid range casting and suddenly the damage doesn't seem too bad for a ranged weapon. Synergy issues are still there though.

[Obtena.7952]

@Sarrs.4831 said:What is this weapon supposed to be good for?

As always, that's not a valid question ... if you haven't noticed, many weapons aren't good. If you just want good, you simply play the weapon that is the best for what you want to be good in. This is how the game is designed and the reason why we have meta builds, etc...

The various weapons exist because they have a theme, not because they are 'good'. Dagger undeniably has a very obvious theme.

[Nimon.7840]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sarrs.4831 said:What is this weapon supposed to be good for?

As always, that's not a valid question ... if you haven't noticed, many weapons aren't good. If you just want good, you simply play the weapon that is the best for what you want to be good in. This is how the game is designed and the reason why we have meta builds, etc...

The various weapons exist because they have a theme, not because they are 'good'. Dagger undeniably has a very obvious theme.

The theme of being completely useless right now? ;P

[Dadnir.5038]

@Sarrs.4831 said:I am thinking single target lockdown/sustain weapon. With this in mind:AA chain 3 corrupts a boon. When in doubt, add a boon corrupt! Combines Scepter's slow, consistent boonflipping in the autochain with Axe's on-demand boonflip on 3. High risk as Necromancer to try to facemunch with dagger, but good Lifeforce and quick corrupts is high reward.Life Siphon pulses Cripple on the target and Resistance on the Necromancer. Resistance stops movement-impairing conditions and lets you catch up to a Crippled target. Suppressing other conditions is a nice bonus.Dark Pact also applies Weakness (3s) to help with sustain. Shorter CD (15-20sec). 25sec CD is insane for how little Dark Pact does! Maybe increased Immob+Weakness duration for each boon flipped (big maybe).Get rid of the self-bleeding stuff.

So you suggest to pile up more effects on skills that have already way to many effects piled up on them? Seriously this is how anet tried to improve the necromancer up till now. How many years of piling up effect are we on now? 5? 6? Does it work? No it doesn't.

I don't deny the fact that you suggest things that anet might do, the fact is that it won't do any good for the necromancer or the game as a whole to continue piling up effect on skills.

[Sarrs.4831]

@Obtena.7952 said:As always, that's not a valid question ... if you haven't noticed, many weapons aren't good. If you just want good, you simply play the weapon that is the best for what you want to be good in. This is how the game is designed and the reason why we have meta builds, etc...

The various weapons exist because they have a theme, not because they are 'good'. Dagger undeniably has a very obvious theme.

Okay so it is supposed to be the best roleplaying weapon.The AA chain should correct your spelling and deal more damage to enemies who spell poorly.3 should sit you down in a chair. Not on a floor; a chair.

[Obtena.7952]

@Sarrs.4831 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:As always, that's not a valid question ... if you haven't noticed, many weapons aren't good. If you just want good, you simply play the weapon that is the best for what you want to be good in. This is how the game is designed and the reason why we have meta builds, etc...

The various weapons exist because they have a theme, not because they are 'good'. Dagger undeniably has a very obvious theme.

Okay so it is supposed to be the best roleplaying weapon.The AA chain should correct your spelling and deal more damage to enemies who spell poorly.3 should sit you down in a chair. Not on a floor; a chair.

I don't know ... I don't RP. That doesn't change what I said though ... weapons are chosen because of theme. If the theme you want is best performance, you choose the weapon that gives you that.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Sarrs.4831 said:I am thinking single target lockdown/sustain weapon. With this in mind:AA chain 3 corrupts a boon. When in doubt, add a boon corrupt! Combines Scepter's slow, consistent boonflipping in the autochain with Axe's on-demand boonflip on 3. High risk as Necromancer to try to facemunch with dagger, but good Lifeforce and quick corrupts is high reward.Life Siphon pulses Cripple on the target and Resistance on the Necromancer. Resistance stops movement-impairing conditions and lets you catch up to a Crippled target. Suppressing other conditions is a nice bonus.Dark Pact also applies Weakness (3s) to help with sustain. Shorter CD (15-20sec). 25sec CD is insane for how little Dark Pact does! Maybe increased Immob+Weakness duration for each boon flipped (big maybe).Get rid of the self-bleeding stuff.

So you suggest to pile up more effects on skills that have already way to many effects piled up on them? Seriously this is how anet tried to improve the necromancer up till now. How many years of piling up effect are we on now? 5? 6? Does it work? No it doesn't.

I don't deny the fact that you suggest things that anet might do, the fact is that it won't do any good for the necromancer or the game as a whole to continue piling up effect on skills.

While I do feel the auto could still use a slight change (a stack of bleed on the last hit to synergize with Life Siphon, or maybe a short Regeneration boon, something small , but on-theme), I don't feel adding new effects is the right way to fix dagger either. That said, I do think people severely underestimate the sustain Life Siphon gives even in PvP environments. Just last night, I effectively got 3-4 more heal skill activations worth of healing in a two minute fight. That's a lot of healing.

[Oozo.7856]

Dagger is a melee weapon and as such it needs a port to target ability to keep up with the mobility creep that the game has seen.

[Oozo.7856]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Sarrs.4831 said:I am thinking single target lockdown/sustain weapon. With this in mind:AA chain 3 corrupts a boon. When in doubt, add a boon corrupt! Combines Scepter's slow, consistent boonflipping in the autochain with Axe's on-demand boonflip on 3. High risk as Necromancer to try to facemunch with dagger, but good Lifeforce and quick corrupts is high reward.Life Siphon pulses Cripple on the target and Resistance on the Necromancer. Resistance stops movement-impairing conditions and lets you catch up to a Crippled target. Suppressing other conditions is a nice bonus.Dark Pact also applies Weakness (3s) to help with sustain. Shorter CD (15-20sec). 25sec CD is insane for how little Dark Pact does! Maybe increased Immob+Weakness duration for each boon flipped (big maybe).Get rid of the self-bleeding stuff.

So you suggest to pile up more effects on skills that have already way to many effects piled up on them? Seriously this is how anet tried to improve the necromancer up till now. How many years of piling up effect are we on now? 5? 6? Does it work? No it doesn't.

I don't deny the fact that you suggest things that anet might do, the fact is that it won't do any good for the necromancer or the game as a whole to continue piling up effect on skills.

While I do feel the auto could still use a slight change (a stack of bleed on the last hit to synergize with Life Siphon, or maybe a short Regeneration boon, something small , but on-theme), I don't feel adding new effects is the right way to fix dagger either. That said, I do think people severely underestimate the sustain Life Siphon gives even in PvP environments. Just last night, I effectively got 3-4 more heal skill activations worth of healing in a two minute fight. That's a lot of healing.

The heal is nice, but life force is much more important for overall sustain. Dagger can't generate decent lifeforce since you can't sustain contact against more mobile classes. As it is, dagger is only good for PVE.

[Anchoku.8142]

What do you all think of MH dagger's sustain and dps on Scourge? Please describe build and game mode.

My own impression was that dagger's dps, LF generation, and the siphon heal are not sufficient on any build or game mode to support melee play on Scourge.

The condi-pressure from Scourge boon corruption and condi burst seem to far outstrip any sustain from barrier. MH dagger does not appear to add enough dps pressure or sustain to allow face-tanking, with barriers.

[Crinn.7864]

@Obtena.7952 said:weapons are chosen because of theme. If the theme you want is best performance, you choose the weapon that gives you that.Performance is not a theme.