Firebrand Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Shadea.6251 said:Sounds like the Firebrand is getting quite some buffs and convenience improvements, very cool!

Meanwhile, the Scourge is getting nerfed already. Business as usual then. x)

tbh scourge i find wasn't nerfed as mush as some people believe. Both my condi and hybrid builds I have received more buffs than nerfs (and condi build is probably close to what most people will play)

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Abelisk.4527 said:The change above is a L2P change but 100% a buff.

Also I'm surprised at how the cast time is still being pointed out. 0.5 is really short of a cast time imo...

Mantras I feel were introduced to cover 1 utility slot, 2 at most, and maybe the heal/elite. With their small use I think they're good in their current state. Kinda like Glyphs from Druid.

Overall this is very exciting and promising! Looking forward to be playing firebrand soon. =)

0.5s is 0.5s higher than similar skills.

Attunements, Death/Reaper Shroud, Berserk, Celestial Avatar, Beast Mode, Photon Forge. All of them, every single transform/skill swap profession mechanic is instant cast. So don't tell me "oh the cast time is low enough", for other classes, the baseline is 0s, instant cast, as low as it gets. Guardian gets a minor improvement, and we are supposed to be thankful for the "buff".

Druid's glyphs don't have the same radius problems, they are 300 radius AoEs, so bad comparison. Doubly bad, because you chose the one skill type that is regularly used for every single of the 5 slots in raid builds.

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Cave Rock.4869 said:But will we not chew through the pages like nothing else. Wasn't the amount of self aegis better.

If the spammable aegis is shared with others I might consider this to be an improvement than an nerf.

It was the same with old Legendary Lore. It was not self-aegis, you gave it to all allies if you used a F3 skill. So, you still had to spent pages, it was not a plusing boon or anything. With this change, instead of giving aegis with all skills, you give it with skil 1 and skill 5, but you don't need to take a trait for it. And if you do take that trait, you also give protection.

All changes were straight buffs overall, I don't think that's debatable, it's the rest of the heap of problems left untouched that's the problem.

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Brutaly.6257 said:Yeah i think people forget to look at FB from all angles and just the angle they expected to play. The elite has huge potential as a defensive supporter but i think you forgot stability, the amount of stability this little baby can throw out is just sweet.Rune of the Firebrand and concentration in chest/legs and some seraph trinkets and we will end up with a great supporter. But there is a risk that FB needs to be carried some what.

Yes it is sweet, but strinctly for competive modes. There's no doubt that firebrand is a straight upgrade over the current wvw guardian, after F3's cd reduction.

It's firebrand pve viability as support that's questionable.

@phokus.8934 said:

@DiogoSilva.7089 said:Can we get the old tome animation back? It was a wonderful animation.No - it was just a big book in your face. We need less animations and effects in this game, not more.

Yes, they are called TOMES, no wonder it was a book. Of course the game needs visuals and especially ones like tomes that defined the identity of the class. If you want blandness, go play warrior.

[Dalorian.7386]

Good try developers, its a hard work and a advance. It's a better in some ways but still won't work. I gonna put some suggestions to the changes.

Nerf the tomes, but give them the posibility to use like a toolkit, if we leave the tome F2 with 2 pages [mantaining the CD of the 1-5 skill], don't enter the tome in cooldown, so we can change tomes without have cooldown until we used all the pages, so if the pages finish, the tome enter in coldown. We need use de f2 in some moments in the battle and in the next second we need use the f3, so we need that to be useful for the firebrand. The new CD of tomes are really good but with the other problem is still dont working.

Mantras.I used it and was really bad for the cone and range, and now still useless, in wvw include GvG, the people are spread each other like 500 mt of range, so gonna be good nerf the mantras, but be in 600 range radius, like the stand your ground. Is hard to a lot of tags, keep the people into 600 range, imagine into 300 or less.

I dont have a problem if the mantra of lore, one of the best for me, get nerfed condis cleaned 2 to 1 in opening passage, and keep the clarified conclusion same. but increasing the range. the same with all mantras. Because in wvw don't gona be used if keep in that way. the tomes are powerfull maybe too OP, but the mechanic won't work for me like a commander, and i command a guild, imagine a pugmander with the people more spread, is more hard. I hope workteam read this, and keep up updating well. Sorry for my bad english. Thanks for all.

[Atticus.7194]

@pelle ossa.9705 said:firebrand was clunky and will still be clunky... gj really...

Sadly that was my take away as well, especially the tomes. Phew those clearly needed to be able to be used and put away like an engineer kit.

Even with these changes the mantras are still far too small and the axe symbol far too slow.

I dunno, steps in the right direction but kinda feels like they're trying to cobble this into being acceptable without addressing the core issues that are causing the problems.

[REKKRAP.1759]

This is awesome! Thank you ANet! I think these changes are going to make the FB feel really awesome to play. I can't wait for tomorrow!!!

[Malthurius.6870]

@Dalorian.7386 said:Good try developers, its a hard work and a advance. It's a better in some ways but still inviable. I gonna put some suggestions to the changes.

Nerf the tomes, but give them the posibility to use like a toolkit, if we leave the tome F2 with 2 pages, don't enter the tome in cooldown, so we can change tomes without have cooldown until we used all the pages, so if the pages finish, the tome enter in coldown. We need use de f2 in some moments in the battle and in the next second we need use the f3, so we need that to be useful for the firebrand. The new CD of tomes are really good but with the other problem is still dont working.

This is a terrible idea. Nothing would feel worse than going into tome of resolve, using 4 pages, dropping it, using it again, and getting the full CD after casting 1 more skill... even more so if they make the tome weaker to compensate for more availability.

I'm much happier with tomes being big impactful cool downs (resolve being not very different functionally to druid's astral form) than being kits that can be switched to on a whim.

[Selendile.9106]

For the love of everything that is good in this world, drop the AoE on mantras and just make them 600 range! They should behave just like Shield #4. They should behave just like tome #1. Please give some darn consistency to our skills!

And while you're at it, fix staff. Make Staff #2 a 240 radius ground based target that heals and applies light aura. Staff is a mess as it is. Some skills are 300 range, some are 1200...it's absurd. No one uses Staff #2 for damage, just let it be a support weapon in it's entirety.

Sele

[Abelisk.4527]

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:The change above is a L2P change but 100% a buff.

Also I'm surprised at how the cast time is still being pointed out. 0.5 is really short of a cast time imo...

Mantras I feel were introduced to cover 1 utility slot, 2 at most, and maybe the heal/elite. With their small use I think they're good in their current state. Kinda like Glyphs from Druid.

Overall this is very exciting and promising! Looking forward to be playing firebrand soon. =)

0.5s is 0.5s higher than similar skills.

Attunements, Death/Reaper Shroud, Berserk, Celestial Avatar, Beast Mode, Photon Forge. All of them, every single transform/skill swap profession mechanic is instant cast. So don't tell me "oh the cast time is low enough", for other classes, the baseline is 0s, instant cast, as low as it gets. Guardian gets a minor improvement, and we are supposed to be thankful for the "buff".

Druid's glyphs don't have the same radius problems, they are 300 radius AoEs, so bad comparison. Doubly bad, because you chose the one skill type that is regularly used for every single of the 5 slots in raid builds.

Spear of Justice is 0.75 cast time. Wings of Resolve is 1 second cast time. Tomes are 0.5 second cast time. Tomes offer more than DH virtues.

Elixir X? 1 second. Tornado 1 second.

Thing is we have access to three tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.

[phokus.8934]

@Abelisk.4527 said:

Thing is we have access to three tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.You're going to have to explain how they would be OP. Because I'd agree with you to some extent if the majority of the tome skills were instant cast but they're not. They're primarily 3/4 cast time or longer.

[Sao.7146]

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:The change above is a L2P change but 100% a buff.

Also I'm surprised at how the cast time is still being pointed out. 0.5 is really short of a cast time imo...

Mantras I feel were introduced to cover 1 utility slot, 2 at most, and maybe the heal/elite. With their small use I think they're good in their current state. Kinda like Glyphs from Druid.

Overall this is very exciting and promising! Looking forward to be playing firebrand soon. =)

0.5s is 0.5s higher than similar skills.

Attunements, Death/Reaper Shroud, Berserk, Celestial Avatar, Beast Mode, Photon Forge. All of them, every single transform/skill swap profession mechanic is instant cast. So don't tell me "oh the cast time is low enough", for other classes, the baseline is 0s, instant cast, as low as it gets. Guardian gets a minor improvement, and we are supposed to be thankful for the "buff".

Druid's glyphs don't have the same radius problems, they are 300 radius AoEs, so bad comparison. Doubly bad, because you chose the one skill type that is regularly used for every single of the 5 slots in raid builds.

Conjure Flame Axe 0.25s Conjure Frost Bow 0.25s Conjure Lightning Hammer 0.75s Conjure Earth Shield 0.75s Conjure Fiery Greatsword 1s

[Abelisk.4527]

@phokus.8934 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:

Thing is we have access to

three

tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.You're going to have to explain how they would be OP. Because I'd agree with you to some extent if the majority of the tome skills were instant cast but they're not. They're primarily 3/4 cast time or longer.

Well, first of all, FB has sources of quickness. Mantras, traits etc. These are meant to couple the skills so that they could be used easier.

Second, the skills are big. Huge effects. You can't place a 0.25 cooldown on a skill that increases heal effectiveness and cleans 5 condis. Plus, Quickness alleviates that. Take Rune of the Leadership for even more Quickness, boom.

[Manimarco Devil.1790]

They addressed most of the issues involving tomes. Mantras may be ok now even if we must be melee to proc them. The mantra immob trait and slow grandmaster trait still have no place but w.e

This didn't really address the bugs in Firebrand though, so I hope those got fixed. Also can we get a response that weapon swapping while using RF is intended to cancel RF? This means RF cannot be used as a panic button while in a tome because that tome will not get refreshed.

[Haoasakura.5784]

Nice changes, it's a start, but i was disappointed that the skill 1 of axe didn't get a range increase, I mean right now it feels that the animation has more range of the actual skill

[CptAurellian.9537]

I'm not yet convinced that 120 aoe range make mantras usable in pve, but at least it is a step in the right direction. I'd still prefer 240 or more. Just don't increase the cone range at the expense of aoe, that would be beyond stupid.

[Eldarion the Warden.1437]

So Healer's Retribution is intended not to proc on the activated mantra heals skills?

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Abelisk.4527 said:Spear of Justice is 0.75 cast time. Wings of Resolve is 1 second cast time. Tomes are 0.5 second cast time. Tomes offer more than DH virtues.DH virtues have cast times, but you get immediate result when the cast time is over. When you finish casting the tomes, you get nothing, you have to cast another skill to start benefiting from them. The cast time is accumulative, resulting in cases like needing a full second to cast the F3 bubble, which is too late if you under fire.

Elixir X? 1 second. Tornado 1 second.Those are skills, not profession mechanics.

Thing is we have access to three tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.The 3 tomes replace our profession mechanic, they are not free. Meanwhile, Druids get a completely new set of skills on top of their existing profession mechanic.

@Sao.7146 said:Conjure Flame Axe 0.25s Conjure Frost Bow 0.25s Conjure Lightning Hammer 0.75s Conjure Earth Shield 0.75s Conjure Fiery Greatsword 1sAnd none are profession mechanics. They also create 2 transforms, not 1.

[otto.5684]

@Abelisk.4527 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:The change above is a L2P change but 100% a buff.

Also I'm surprised at how the cast time is still being pointed out. 0.5 is really short of a cast time imo...

Mantras I feel were introduced to cover 1 utility slot, 2 at most, and maybe the heal/elite. With their small use I think they're good in their current state. Kinda like Glyphs from Druid.

Overall this is very exciting and promising! Looking forward to be playing firebrand soon. =)

0.5s is 0.5s higher than similar skills.

Attunements, Death/Reaper Shroud, Berserk, Celestial Avatar, Beast Mode, Photon Forge. All of them, every single transform/skill swap profession mechanic is instant cast. So don't tell me "oh the cast time is low enough", for other classes, the baseline is 0s, instant cast, as low as it gets. Guardian gets a minor improvement, and we are supposed to be thankful for the "buff".

Druid's glyphs don't have the same radius problems, they are 300 radius AoEs, so bad comparison. Doubly bad, because you chose the one skill type that is regularly used for every single of the 5 slots in raid builds.

Spear of Justice is 0.75 cast time. Wings of Resolve is 1 second cast time. Tomes are 0.5 second cast time. Tomes offer more than DH virtues.

Elixir X? 1 second. Tornado 1 second.

Thing is we have access to

three

tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.

This is cherry picking at its finest. SoC, the most important of the virtues, for surviving, has 0.25 sec cast and yet you did not mention it at all. SoJ used to be 0.25 till very recently. It does not require "stowing" and is unblockable. The comparison with ToJ, that requires initial stowing, blocks all your other damage skills and the other 2 Tomes, is just wrong on every level.

The tomes promise you higher reward if you stow them and spend the time using. See the "time" is the key here. Yes, if I cast "all" ToR skills I will probably get better reward than WoR. But when you factor in the time, the lock out your weapon skills and other tomes, the trade-off has been significantly in favor of virtues (DH or Core).

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Abelisk.4527 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:

Thing is we have access to

three

tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.You're going to have to explain how they would be OP. Because I'd agree with you to some extent if the majority of the tome skills were instant cast but they're not. They're primarily 3/4 cast time or longer.

Well, first of all, FB has sources of quickness. Mantras, traits etc. These are meant to couple the skills so that they could be used easier.

Second, the skills are big. Huge effects. You can't place a 0.25 cooldown on a skill that increases heal effectiveness and cleans 5 condis. Plus, Quickness alleviates that. Take Rune of the Leadership for even more Quickness, boom.

Quickness is supposed to be a bonus, not mandatory for the spec to not feel clunky.

And it is a bonus for every single spec and build in the game, even for chrono that has as much quickness as firebrand. Firebrand on the other hand gets super long cast times, even on weak skills like the axe symbol, because quickness somehow makes up for it. Not to mention that chrono didn't get super long cooldowns because rthey had alacrity either.

And no amount of quickness will makes a 0.5s cast faster or equal to an instant-cast. And this is what other classes get baseline, no quickness needed.

[Brutaly.6257]

I understand that people are upset about tomes not being instant and i support that. BUT i dont think tomes were never ever intended to be like kits or ele attunement but infact as Tomes.

You know those klunky situational elite skills we had back in the day that could be superpowerful in certain situations. I think i understand what anet want to achieve with them and tbh i think they are close to achieving it. But here is the thing, we shouldnt be asking for reduced casting on the tomes (they are situational now and i believe its intended) but we should ask for reduced casting on some of the skills and more power. ToJ is already there, its a great setup of skills with a very good punch and hopefully ToR will be there with the buffs.ToC is also very powerful and i bet i will get some annoyed pm:s in pvp when i run my aegis spam build,

Going into a tome is an investment you do and you are pretty much stuck there and the payoff should be a huge impact instead of instant spells.

Players that evaluate the situation correct should be rewarded and the ones just spamming buttons should be penelized. I actually think this is what anet aims for.

I bet my kitten that we will see some really powerful players with FB in just a couple of weeks and the gap between bad players and good one will be very obvious, remember were you heard this first.

Sure they need to fix the mantras, what they did wasnt enough and they should adress mobility (not swiftness, fb has tons of it) for engage and disengage but i will have an open mind when i try the new tomes and a new playstyle and if it works remotely as well as it did in beta for me i will be a happy puppy.

I dont think we can compare tomes to attunements, the tomes are much more powerful, i think its more correct to compare them to overload tbh.

[RabbitUp.8294]

Anet, Stoic Demeanor is a boring trait. And it's pretty bad, too. It's not GM worthy.

How about using that slot to give a unique toy to Firebrand, eh? Transfer the slow to Mantra of Truth, it could use a bit more utility, since it's primarily focused on damage mitigation thruogh conditions, and slow fits to that.

NEW: Stoic DemeanorWhen aegis you apply blocks an attack, it will continue blocking for 0.75s

[Yakez.7561]

Added a 0.5s delay before you can use 'stow tome' upon entry into a tome.

Now please remove WvW skill lag, I love you.

[Hellmasker.1649]

@Ghotistyx.6942 said:Mantras are fine even without the 240 radius. If anything maybe a 450 cone but I wouldn't need it. Good notes on the coefficient changes. I'm a fan of everything on this list.

@Hellmasker.1649 said:

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

• Legendary Lore: Tome of Courage effect is now 4s protection in place of 5s of aegis.

And just like that, my hype for PoF is all but shattered.

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

• Unflinching Charge: This ability now grants 4s aegis in addition to its previous effects.
• Unbroken Lines: This ability now grants 4s of aegis in addition to its previous effects.

You still have Aegis spam, its just on ToC 1 and 5 untraited now, which is pure benefit.

! Also, don't think I didn't see that

pun

.

AAAAAAND REJOICE.Thank you, I did notice that but not until quite a while after I initially posted. This does, admittedly, seem a bit more balanced. Thank you though. :smile:

[Abelisk.4527]

@otto.5684 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

@Abelisk.4527 said:The change above is a L2P change but 100% a buff.

Also I'm surprised at how the cast time is still being pointed out. 0.5 is really short of a cast time imo...

Mantras I feel were introduced to cover 1 utility slot, 2 at most, and maybe the heal/elite. With their small use I think they're good in their current state. Kinda like Glyphs from Druid.

Overall this is very exciting and promising! Looking forward to be playing firebrand soon. =)

0.5s is 0.5s higher than similar skills.

Attunements, Death/Reaper Shroud, Berserk, Celestial Avatar, Beast Mode, Photon Forge. All of them, every single transform/skill swap profession mechanic is instant cast. So don't tell me "oh the cast time is low enough", for other classes, the baseline is 0s, instant cast, as low as it gets. Guardian gets a minor improvement, and we are supposed to be thankful for the "buff".

Druid's glyphs don't have the same radius problems, they are 300 radius AoEs, so bad comparison. Doubly bad, because you chose the one skill type that is regularly used for every single of the 5 slots in raid builds.

Spear of Justice is 0.75 cast time. Wings of Resolve is 1 second cast time. Tomes are 0.5 second cast time. Tomes offer more than DH virtues.

Elixir X? 1 second. Tornado 1 second.

Thing is we have access to

three

tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.

This is cherry picking at its finest. SoC, the most important of the virtues, for surviving, has 0.25 sec cast and yet you did not mention it at all. SoJ used to be 0.25 till very recently. It does not require "stowing" and is unblockable. The comparison with ToJ, that requires initial stowing, blocks all your other damage skills and the other 2 Tomes, is just wrong on every level.

The tomes promise you higher reward if you stow them and spend the time using. See the "time" is the key here. Yes, if I cast "all" ToR skills I will probably get better reward than WoR. But when you factor in the time, the lock out your weapon skills and other tomes, the trade-off has been significantly in favor of virtues (DH or Core).

That's subjective. Think of it as dipping in, dipping out--use the tome, stow the tome. It's not like you'll constantly be using tomes--they even have CDs.

I admit removing cooldowns on tomes would feel better, but 0.5 seconds is barely anything... it's so trivial that it shouldn't hamper the ability to use the tomes like ya'll are exaggerating.

Yes, some of the tome skills feel slow, but others are faster (ToC).

Quickness is mostly baseline (unlike Chrono) because it's made to quickly cast tome skills, them dip out. Because it's baseline, ANet made it clear that the intention was to "dip in/out" not camp in the tomes.

So, yes. The tome cast time may not be necessary. But it's trivial in my opinion.