Class Swapping Problems

[Crab Fear.1624]

In the past Anet says the community voted to keep this. I don't know how long ago that was, I didn't know about the vote.

From my perspective here are the pros and cons of class swapping before a match begins.

Cons:

• Undermines the hard work of whoever programmed the matchmaker, and pretty much ruins the concept of having one at all.
• Over-stacking the IMBA class of the quarter+
• Sometimes swapping leads to unintentional DC

Pros:*You might be able to make a better comp and increase you chance of winning.

Anet could do one of these:

• Disallow class swapping after queue pops
• Set a hard limit to profession no matter what, if the limit has been reached players will not be able to select that class, this may allow swapping
• Leave it as is ....but at the rate of balance changes is this something anyone really wants anymore?

People voted, but do they feel different now? Do profession balance/skill changes happen often enough to justify keeping it? As the game slowly creeps towards true holy trin...

How about anet does a trial disallow at the update and see how people like it? I wish they would; I feel bad about voting without having tasted both ways.

The MM may be working as intended, but if player abuse destroys it, perhaps it is time to retire the option.

4-5 of 1 profession? That is not esport material.

[Vague Memory.2817]

I have to agree trying to match-make teams with people class swapping at start of match makes no sense at all.

[Exedore.6320]

If the main reason to not allow swapping is because a few builds are way too strong, then the problem seems like a balance issue. Maybe we should fix balance?

[pah.4931]

@Exedore.6320 said:If the main reason to not allow swapping is because a few builds are way too strong, then the problem seems like a balance issue. Maybe we should fix balance?

It's not JUST balance. One OP class might be fine if it has counters. But this game is not 1v1. It's a team game and some TEAM comps might be more OP, especially with stacking certain classes. Anet obviously doesn't want class stacking (which is why they have code in place to prevent it when forming teams)... BUT all that is bypassed by letting people swap before the match begins.

[corey.6451]

@pah.4931 said:

@"Exedore.6320" said:If the main reason to not allow swapping is because a few builds are way too strong, then the problem seems like a balance issue. Maybe we should fix balance?

It's not JUST balance. One OP class might be fine if it has counters. But this game is not 1v1. It's a team game and some TEAM comps might be more OP, especially with stacking certain classes. Anet obviously doesn't want class stacking (which is why they have code in place to prevent it when forming teams)... BUT all that is bypassed by letting people swap before the match begins.

Then swap to counter the swapper. Seem to me this is a multiple class l2p problem.

Oh and btw. Atm the "OP" class is, ranger, thief, mesmer, necro, guard, engi, warrior. That is 7 out of 9 class has competitive build.

[pah.4931]

@corey.6451 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@"Exedore.6320" said:If the main reason to not allow swapping is because a few builds are way too strong, then the problem seems like a balance issue. Maybe we should fix balance?

It's not JUST balance. One OP class might be fine if it has counters. But this game is not 1v1. It's a team game and some TEAM comps might be more OP, especially with stacking certain classes. Anet obviously doesn't want class stacking (which is why they have code in place to prevent it when forming teams)... BUT all that is bypassed by letting people swap before the match begins.

Then swap to counter the swapper. Seem to me this is a multiple class l2p problem.

Oh and btw. Atm the "OP" class is, ranger, thief, mesmer, necro, guard, engi, warrior. That is 7 out of 9 class has competitive build.

Then why did Anet take time to code the matchmaking system to prevent class stacking? Seem to me this is a you don't get it problem.

[corey.6451]

@pah.4931 said:

@corey.6451 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@"Exedore.6320" said:If the main reason to not allow swapping is because a few builds are way too strong, then the problem seems like a balance issue. Maybe we should fix balance?

It's not JUST balance. One OP class might be fine if it has counters. But this game is not 1v1. It's a team game and some TEAM comps might be more OP, especially with stacking certain classes. Anet obviously doesn't want class stacking (which is why they have code in place to prevent it when forming teams)... BUT all that is bypassed by letting people swap before the match begins.

Then swap to counter the swapper. Seem to me this is a multiple class l2p problem.

Oh and btw. Atm the "OP" class is, ranger, thief, mesmer, necro, guard, engi, warrior. That is 7 out of 9 class has competitive build.

Then why did Anet take time to code the matchmaking system to prevent class stacking? Seem to me this is a you don't get it problem.

So player have a balance match. But the skilled player should have a better chance to win.

The low skill build and class already close the gap between good and bad player, dont make that gap closer please. It is a balance problem atm.

But if it became a big problem at low skill eating, then change class switching for low skill rating only. Because we dont have problem at high lvl player, we all know how to counter a class stacking com. Ez win basicly

[LightofConduct.1693]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/25679/switching-characters-while-waiting-for-the-match-to-start-should-be-stopped-in-the-next-patch#latest

[Exedore.6320]

@pah.4931 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:If the main reason to not allow swapping is because a few builds are way too strong, then the problem seems like a balance issue. Maybe we should fix balance?

It's not JUST balance. One OP class might be fine if it has counters. But this game is not 1v1. It's a team game and some TEAM comps might be more OP, especially with stacking certain classes.If a specific comp is too strong, it's still a balance problem. However, if it's the case that the enemy team was a well-rounded team (DPS and supports) and the other isn't, then that's why character swapping

should

be allowed.

[Abazigal.3679]

@corey.6451 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@"Exedore.6320" said:If the main reason to not allow swapping is because a few builds are way too strong, then the problem seems like a balance issue. Maybe we should fix balance?

It's not JUST balance. One OP class might be fine if it has counters. But this game is not 1v1. It's a team game and some TEAM comps might be more OP, especially with stacking certain classes. Anet obviously doesn't want class stacking (which is why they have code in place to prevent it when forming teams)... BUT all that is bypassed by letting people swap before the match begins.

Then swap to counter the swapper. Seem to me this is a multiple class l2p problem.

Oh and btw. Atm the "OP" class is, ranger, thief, mesmer, necro, guard, engi, warrior. That is 7 out of 9 class has competitive build.

Most of the time, the swapper will log back when the timer ends, it's fairly hard to counter the swapper(s) except on simple guess ( i.e considering our actual setup, opponent should reroll x, so i will swap to y).

[SlimChance.6593]

I haven't touch sPvP since POF has dropped, (balance reasons).
When this vote was posted way back when, I was against allow characters swapping then and I still am.

If ranked were setup with a "team" mode(like it originally did), then yes, TEAMS should be allowed to swap professions to help counter the other team. (Same with the Automate Tournaments, its "TEAM" vs "TEAM"). Doesn't matter if one team is PUGs. Allow swapping in a TEAM mode.

But ranked is NOT a "TEAM" mode, it is a random group of solo/dual, that the match makers is TRYING to create balanced & fun matches for everyone. Allowing class swapping TOTALLY negates the match maker's algorithm. There is no point BITCHING about the MM, when players circumvent it so easily.You want to counter the other team, then change your "build"! But you should not be allowed to swap classes in ranked as it is currently setup.