WvW/PvP Skill Split v2.0 today?

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Americium.7182 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Americium.7182 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Its so sad. For the first time in ages , i thought anet goes in the right direction.

Balancing RvR gamemode only around small scale combat is right direction?

Yes. You can not make Druide usefull in Zerg Play. Thats impossible.

So why not nerf something thats OP is Small Scale Play , when it will never be viable in Zerg Play anyway?

Any arguments why druid is bad for zergs? Druid has everything to be viable. It's only a matter of numbers.I'm not saying roaming druid don't deserve a nerf. But those CD and healing changes are just straight up bad for a gamemode overall. There are dozens of other ways to nerf him (sword, celestial shadow, ancient seeds, staff damage, pets, quickening zephyr etc.)

Any nerf to druid should not also affect soulbeast and core ranger. I don't think anyone's complaining about them. The lowering of Rugged Growth's healing coefficient for example will affect any ranger build that uses Wilderness Survival, which is probably going to be most builds since WS is good for adding condi clear.

Any change to holo should likewise not affect core or scrapper as those two are already barely breathing in WvW. Anet needs to fix the problems within the actual elites, not start tinkering in core trait lines that'll have ramifications beyond the elite they're trying to fix.

[Americium.7182]

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

The Problems that Druide has are:He has no good weapon for WvW.The only weapons you COULD say are somewhat ok are Warhorn ( which is pointless because of rev ) and Staff (which has not much going for it).

This means the left side of the skillbar is complete garbage.The same goes for Warrior and Mesmer but they have skills like WoD / Veil / Portal / Gravity Well.

The right side is also not good.Go ingame and look at your utility bar.Name me one skill thats is so good in WvW that is makes the lack of good weapons not matter.

1) Staff has a waterfield + blast. Vine also is also decent. GS while not good but kinda alright for mobility and block/evade.2) You don't need a unique OP skills like aoe stability, boon corrupt or WoD/Veil to be viable. Warriors were meta since the start of the game because of their high damage output.

[Jerry CCH.9816]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@saerni.2584 said:As per above title,

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration.

Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?

We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.

Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.

Additionally, we've decided not to unsplit anything for this release. After some internal conversation, we decided to keep this release more focused. However, for next balance release, we'll be evaluating our splits to see which should be made game-wide.

Hi BenIm 5 years WvW player

1. Any plan Change at Warrior "Winds of Disenchantment" Skill (Increased the colddown or Nerf Radius)?
2. Any plan Buff Necro Signets and bring Boon Corruption back at Traits - Signets of Suffering ?
3. Any plan Nerf T3 Tower/Keep ?
4. Any plan Nerf Arrow Cart Siege Damge ?

[Jinks.2057]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@saerni.2584 said:As per above title,

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration.

Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?

We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.

Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.

Additionally, we've decided not to unsplit anything for this release. After some internal conversation, we decided to keep this release more focused. However, for next balance release, we'll be evaluating our splits to see which should be made game-wide.

Yup my hope for patch is dying.

Guess I'll be going another "quarter" w/out playing

[Americium.7182]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

Any nerf to druid should not also affect soulbeast and core ranger. I don't think anyone's complaining about them. The lowering of Rugged Growth's healing coefficient for example will affect any ranger build that uses Wilderness Survival, which is probably going to be most builds since WS is good for adding condi clear.

Any change to holo should likewise not affect core or scrapper as those two are already barely breathing in WvW. Anet needs to fix the problems within the actual elites, not start tinkering in core trait lines that'll have ramifications beyond the elite they're trying to fix.

I agree but also any nerf to roamers shoud not affect Zergs/GvG. They already killed Tempest and Scrapper both of which had a nice place.

[Turk.5460]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@saerni.2584 said:As per above title,

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration.

Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?

We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.

Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.

For clarification, PvP only changes include WvW?

Nope! Druid and Holosmith nerfs are not going to WvW for now.

That's a mistake. WvW isn't all about zerging. With ascended gear, no gear restrictions and food buffs Holosmith is completely busted in WvW.

And before the white knights come down on me: Engineer is the only profession I've ever extensively played. A lot of my time was spent in WvW.

And that's where you, and a few others dueling minded players, are wrong...

This is what wvw is about. (Hint: and it’s not about 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5 players fighting over small circles to 500 points)...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

Under Trivia...

“The inspiration for World versus World came from Dark Age of Camelot's realm vs. realm battles.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Camelot

“Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC) is a 3D medieval fantasy MMORPG, released on October 10, 2001 in North America and in Europe shortly after through its partner GOA. The game combines Arthurian lore, Norse mythology and Irish Celtic legends with a dash of high fantasy. It is set in the period after King Arthur's death and his kingdom has split into three parts which are in a constant state of war with each other. DAoC includes both Player versus Environment (PvE) and Realm versus Realm (RvR) combat.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realm_versus_Realm

WvW is about whatever we players make it about. If WvW was solely Blob v. Blob pressing 1 and occasionally another button, then there wouldn't be things like guards at camps or towers, and sentries would be champions/elite instead of veterans.

I doubt you've even played DAoC or you would know that you cannot compare group-size and activity relation in RvR to WvW. The only time you saw more than a group of 8 allied players was in the extremely rare event that a realm was going for a relic. And the groups that took towers were generally...omg guess what...5 people! None of this 60 vs 60 balled up stacking on 1 person with a commander tag...

[Turk.5460]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@saerni.2584 said:As per above title,

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration.

Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?

We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.

Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.

Additionally, we've decided not to unsplit anything for this release. After some internal conversation, we decided to keep this release more focused. However, for next balance release, we'll be evaluating our splits to see which should be made game-wide.

Ben, You really need to iterate to your balance team that not everyone's opinion here really matters. Some of the changes you are not going to implement in certain environments are going to leave a few things really broken in terms of being overpowered. It is not the fault of your game, or your changes to the game made, that is ruining the wvw/pvp scene.

it's the players. It's their lack of skill. Take some information into consideration, but do not take all.

An example, but more for the pvp side, are all these people talking about the .5 seconds cast time for the shade skills. I pray to any god willing to listen and grant me my wish that you

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT

revert these changes. Because it will end up, again, being insta spam of 5 stacks of many condis each, an instant fear with no tells, which can then be followed up with more cc and more fear before you can even do anything to counter it.

People hate to see their classes nerfed, especially when they've been overpowered and dominated the scene for so long

. But what they don't realize is that some changes are absolutely necessary, if a chance for other players to counterplay is desperately needed.Keep this in mind, Ben, and to the balance team:

You can't please everyone. So stop trying to.

Whoa hold up. I don't even play Scourge and I don't think there should be a .5s activation timer on shade skills. It looks and feels clunky. I think their damage and conversion nerfs were enough. Try being a little more open minded to how they are performing now before jumping headfirst into the "keep nerfing Scourge because it at one point was super OP" bandwagon.

[Ghos.1326]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@saerni.2584 said:As per above title,

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration.

Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?

We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.

Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.

Additionally, we've decided not to unsplit anything for this release. After some internal conversation, we decided to keep this release more focused. However, for next balance release, we'll be evaluating our splits to see which should be made game-wide.

Ben, You really need to iterate to your balance team that not everyone's opinion here really matters. Some of the changes you are not going to implement in certain environments are going to leave a few things really broken in terms of being overpowered. It is not the fault of your game, or your changes to the game made, that is ruining the wvw/pvp scene.

it's the players. It's their lack of skill. Take some information into consideration, but do not take all.

An example, but more for the pvp side, are all these people talking about the .5 seconds cast time for the shade skills. I pray to any god willing to listen and grant me my wish that you

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT

revert these changes. Because it will end up, again, being insta spam of 5 stacks of many condis each, an instant fear with no tells, which can then be followed up with more cc and more fear before you can even do anything to counter it.

People hate to see their classes nerfed, especially when they've been overpowered and dominated the scene for so long

. But what they don't realize is that some changes are absolutely necessary, if a chance for other players to counterplay is desperately needed.Keep this in mind, Ben, and to the balance team:

You can't please everyone. So stop trying to.

Whoa hold up. I don't even play Scourge and I don't think there should be a .5s activation timer on shade skills. It looks and feels clunky. I think their damage and conversion nerfs were enough. Try being a little more open minded to how they are performing now before jumping headfirst into the "keep nerfing Scourge because it at one point was super OP" bandwagon.

You should jump onto the "never assume ignorant stuff because of your own perceptions" bandwagon. It will do you good.

[Mikeskies.1536]

@"Turk.5460" said:

Whoa hold up. I don't even play Scourge and I don't think there should be a .5s activation timer on shade skills. It looks and feels clunky. I think their damage and conversion nerfs were enough. Try being a little more open minded to how they are performing now before jumping headfirst into the "keep nerfing Scourge because it at one point was super OP" bandwagon.

Yes, they need to revert this change. It is clunky, adds visual clutter, causes the Scourge to miss itself with its own defensive skills, and hasn't stopped noobs from standing in shades.

[Turk.5460]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@saerni.2584 said:As per above title,

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration.

Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?

We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.

Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.

Additionally, we've decided not to unsplit anything for this release. After some internal conversation, we decided to keep this release more focused. However, for next balance release, we'll be evaluating our splits to see which should be made game-wide.

Ben, You really need to iterate to your balance team that not everyone's opinion here really matters. Some of the changes you are not going to implement in certain environments are going to leave a few things really broken in terms of being overpowered. It is not the fault of your game, or your changes to the game made, that is ruining the wvw/pvp scene.

it's the players. It's their lack of skill. Take some information into consideration, but do not take all.

An example, but more for the pvp side, are all these people talking about the .5 seconds cast time for the shade skills. I pray to any god willing to listen and grant me my wish that you

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT

revert these changes. Because it will end up, again, being insta spam of 5 stacks of many condis each, an instant fear with no tells, which can then be followed up with more cc and more fear before you can even do anything to counter it.

People hate to see their classes nerfed, especially when they've been overpowered and dominated the scene for so long

. But what they don't realize is that some changes are absolutely necessary, if a chance for other players to counterplay is desperately needed.Keep this in mind, Ben, and to the balance team:

You can't please everyone. So stop trying to.

Whoa hold up. I don't even play Scourge and I don't think there should be a .5s activation timer on shade skills. It looks and feels clunky. I think their damage and conversion nerfs were enough. Try being a little more open minded to how they are performing now before jumping headfirst into the "keep nerfing Scourge because it at one point was super OP" bandwagon.

You should jump onto the "never assume ignorant stuff because of your own perceptions" bandwagon. It will do you good.

Whoa calm down there, didn't think I'd hit a trigger that hard for ya.

Anyway, doesn't your reply work well against your own initial argument anyway? Yeah, it does, you should avoid that type of hypocrisy, it will do you good.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Kahyos.1437 said:I know these changes are more on tuning numbers, but are there any plans to rework revenant and necro anytime soon?

Necro is fine.

You dont have to lie for us lol

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 , you guys realize that you nerf internal defense without nerfing any damage of some classes ?What is your real intention? To see 1-2 sec fights on both sPVP and WvW ?I am asking this because .:

1. I see most of classes (some more , some less) get nerf for their internal defense (by higher CD or less active time)
2. I see some utilities defensive skills get nerf
3. I didn't see any nerf regarding burst dps of Mirage. Atm in both sPVP and WvW (special in WvW) Mirage can 1 shot in 1 sec and after that he can escape even there are another 3-4 friends of the one who just died, due to their evade, invisibility, reflects etc. Even he didn't one shot someone in 1 sec he can fight vs 3-4 ppl and focusing on someone till that one will die , without any possibilities that all 3-4 ppl can kill him.
4. I see many ppl are complaining about druid because he is too bunker ... ok, he is when it comes about survivability, but still I didn't see any druid who fought with 3-4 enemies and kill one of them, no, usual druid can face 3-4 enemies but only runing around let's say in the way to troll them mostly than kill someone. In 1 vs 1 after a long fight yes, a druid can kill almost any class.
5. I see ppl were (at least) complaining about warrior (Spellbreaker) that he is too tanky and he is doing too much damage, still, again I didn't see warriors to kill someone when he is fighting with 3-4 enemies if the targeted one try to disengage and run away , and still warrior can be killed by those 3-4 guys because he doesn't have the same abilities like Mirage, to escape eveytime when he want.Don't get me wrong, I find ok that some classes Mirage, Deadeye can kill someone in 3-4 sec if they play zerker, but I didn't find normal that a 1 shot in 1 sec class can kill someone in 1 sec and in the same time have the abilities to escape vs many enemies. In WvW Mesmer can troll a group of 3-4 guys forever, in sPVP Mesmer can be more tanky than a warrior, the only difference is that Mesmer can kill someone even that someone try to disengage ... I don't know if you play sPVP, but if you meet 2 mesmer in enemy team ... then you can say the hell is down on the arena.

Scourge ... another cancer class in sPVP. In WvW Scourge is almost ok regarding roaming, because there classes have the possibilities to kite , disengage etc ... still even there when you are in a group of 5-6 players and you meet a group of 2 Scourge and 1 Firebrand, you can't do .... nothing. Why ? Well because in my opinion you did something wrong, something who is broken ... stacked barrier. I think you must rewrite this thing ... because it is just wrong that 2 Scourge stack their barrier and give to the whole group 5k+5k ... it is too much. I didn't see protection to be stackable ... so if you have 2 classes who share protection that protection become 33%+33% = 66% protection ...You definitely must rework this one.

Deadeye ... with him I have only one problem and only in WvW, with that build that can 1 shot you in 1 sec with 25-45 k!!! Even you are warrior, guardian, ranger, necro etc ... even you have 2k toughness (3k armor) and 27 k health, you die in just 1 sec because of those 45 k ... like toughness didn't mitigate nothing ... like is not there. I know that are not many players who play this build, but I don't care ... a build with perma stelth and with such a higher amount of damage in just 1 sec is just insane and wrong. After he shot he can go invisible in almost the same second even the Death's Judgment reveal him for 3 sec because he will use Shadow Meld. The only thing who can prevent you from death is a lucky dodge ... but when you are engaged in other fight, you don't have absolutely no chance to dodge something like that.I don't know why Anet didn't do something against this kind of builds, why they didn't nerf something on next patch after someone tell them about so this kind of build can't be used anymore?

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Kahyos.1437 said:I know these changes are more on tuning numbers, but are there any plans to rework revenant and necro anytime soon?

Necro is fine.

You dont have to lie for us lol

dam you got me, Necro needs a nerf in PvP and WvW

[hazethetiger.4806]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@saerni.2584 said:As per above title,

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration.

Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?

We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.

Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.

Additionally, we've decided not to unsplit anything for this release. After some internal conversation, we decided to keep this release more focused. However, for next balance release, we'll be evaluating our splits to see which should be made game-wide.

Ben, You really need to iterate to your balance team that not everyone's opinion here really matters. Some of the changes you are not going to implement in certain environments are going to leave a few things really broken in terms of being overpowered. It is not the fault of your game, or your changes to the game made, that is ruining the wvw/pvp scene.

it's the players. It's their lack of skill. Take some information into consideration, but do not take all.

An example, but more for the pvp side, are all these people talking about the .5 seconds cast time for the shade skills. I pray to any god willing to listen and grant me my wish that you

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT

revert these changes. Because it will end up, again, being insta spam of 5 stacks of many condis each, an instant fear with no tells, which can then be followed up with more cc and more fear before you can even do anything to counter it.

People hate to see their classes nerfed, especially when they've been overpowered and dominated the scene for so long

. But what they don't realize is that some changes are absolutely necessary, if a chance for other players to counterplay is desperately needed.Keep this in mind, Ben, and to the balance team:

You can't please everyone. So stop trying to.

Have you wondered why your opinion does not also fall under your own statement of "...not everyone's opinion here really matters..." ?

Concerning your above comment:

"But what they (they being the scourge players lacking in skill I'm assuming you mentioned a few sentences prior) don't realize is that some changes are absolutely necessary, if(for?) a chance for other players to counterplay is desperately needed."

So what was needed so desperately to be counter played? I do not understand how people missed a HUGE RED CIRCLE you could easily see where you KNEW the shade skills could happen. You also KNEW the scourge itself applied the same skills on themselves.

But wait! They can hit all their buttons and if I'm in that HUGE red circle I'm going to get hit with them all with no chance to get away or dodge!!

Don't go in the circle if you are not prepared to clear condi OR bait the spam by just dodging into the circle.

But WAIT!!! Sand Savant can cover the entire PvP node how can I counter that?!?

Do you not have a ranged class in your PvP match up? Have you not seen how much of a joke Scourge are to any range class? It's silly, honestly, how poor scourge are to any range what so ever, I love fighting against them when I'm on my ranger.

Now what I think you are getting at, aside from jabbing at scourge players and their "Lack of skill" is you don't like how melee classes have to actually get up and take a punch to the face on the super slow moving scourge to engage them. One of the best describers of scourge is they are a turret class, very low mobility, very few options for escapes, and reliant on that area of denial. As I said in my initial post, I'd even welcome further re-workings of the actual effects of the shade skills just to get rid of that jarring aspect. I don't mind lowering down the insane amount of dps scourge had originally but I think they hit that mark with the countless nerfs up until this one (but you know woohoo we are going to get more anyways on those cool down increases from what was released with the PvP WvW splits so yay there) but still I'd rather take a another tuning to the condi and condi damage than mess with how the entire kit is played with all together.

What I think you should do is go and play a class and then imagine you get hit with lag every time you want to use one of your core abilities, it's not bad lag mind you, but it's very noticeable and just irritating through and through. This is a complaint on how the class play now feels, not on the drop of dps or the apparent new counter play that came from it, I still hit dang near the same amount of people with my shades as I did before. It's not due to a lack of skill that I complain about this change, it's just a bad change that made the kit not fun to play with.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Kahyos.1437 said:I know these changes are more on tuning numbers, but are there any plans to rework revenant and necro anytime soon?

Necro is fine.

You dont have to lie for us lol

dam you got me, Necro needs a nerf in PvP and WvW

LOL

[sweetrules.8359]

Please don't split the druid nerf from WvW. They may cry, but they need something different to survive Zergs. Right now, bunker druids are cancer for roamers. Throw in any kind of warrior or other damage survivable option and you just can't counter them without bringing a larger group of people. and they will still probably get away after bursting a couple people. Unless they are just terrible players. Also, will you you guys please consider un-nerfing Reaper shroud uptime for WvW only at least? At the current rate, it doesn't even last maybe two seconds in a zergfight, and even roaming, It might last me a good five seconds before poof, gone. Yet you buffed one survivability option outside of that, and it was the vampiric trait. Damage buffs to the reaper shroud don't matter if you can't use them. I enjoyed playing my reaper before, even if literally everything else outdamaged me when built power in WvW. It was fun. Now it's not fun to play Reaper, and the damage buffs are minimal because you barely get to use them.

[Twyn.7320]

Ngl, correct me if I'm wrong: If Scourge's Sand Shades had Health Bars, you could counter Scourge by defeating the Shades? So, why not add Health to the Shades? Unless they already do? :P

[otto.5684]

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@saerni.2584 said:As per above title,

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration.

Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?

We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.

Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.

Additionally, we've decided not to unsplit anything for this release. After some internal conversation, we decided to keep this release more focused. However, for next balance release, we'll be evaluating our splits to see which should be made game-wide.

That sounds good. Hopefully condi rev (renegade or otherwise) gets something useful. We keep getting these less 5 energy on a skill. Not that energy cost of some skills is not an issue.Vast majority of condi rev issues are cast time related. It would really make a huge difference if mace 2 &3, renegade utilities and mallyx elite cast times are reduced to 0.5 secs.