DeceiverX.8361 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Big tip for making game balance a bit easier for you guys:Remove Dire/TB from the game. I know that begs for whining but seriously, these sets are broken and have created a huge disparity between sPvP and WvW.Your WvW base is larger and you should not relegate profession balance/design to be catered to a format no longer seen to be competitive by the ESL. Unless you intend to split balance between sPvP, WvW, and PvE three ways, which demands massive nerfs to most condition specs in WvW, making all other kits completely pointless and reducing build diversity, the easiest and best solution to creating healthy gameplay across all formats is removal of these sets. The tech is there. You did this with the Magic Find stat. Nobody runs these in PvE because doubling down on damage is more valuable.Most condi complaints come more from the asinine amounts of sustain from Dire/TB in WvW than the actual builds themselves. This small change would be one of the healthiest and most game-changing things to happen to the format and better-unify PvP and WvW conceptually and numerically to reduce contrasting complaints without running into lots of nuances. It saves everyone time and effort and makes the game more fun in general.The community has criticized Dire for being overpowered for five years. It was not added to sPvP when it released because it was recognized as being obviously overpowered. I know WvW isn't "intended to be balanced," but it's the more popular format and these stat combos are making the game less fun for a lot of people and cause a lot of unnecessary nerfs to professions and general frustration as a consequence.If you're serious about balancing the competitive game modes, it's a necessary change.It's been five years of complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeLZedaR.4790 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @"DeceiverX.8361" said:Big tip for making game balance a bit easier for you guys:Remove Dire/TB from the game. I know that begs for whining but seriously, these sets are broken and have created a huge disparity between sPvP and WvW.Your WvW base is larger and you should not relegate profession balance/design to be catered to a format no longer seen to be competitive by the ESL. Unless you intend to split balance between sPvP, WvW, and PvE three ways, which demands massive nerfs to most condition specs in WvW, making all other kits completely pointless and reducing build diversity, the easiest and best solution to creating healthy gameplay across all formats is removal of these sets. The tech is there. You did this with the Magic Find stat. Nobody runs these in PvE because doubling down on damage is more valuable.Most condi complaints come more from the asinine amounts of sustain from Dire/TB in WvW than the actual builds themselves. This small change would be one of the healthiest and most game-changing things to happen to the format and better-unify PvP and WvW conceptually and numerically to reduce contrasting complaints without running into lots of nuances. It saves everyone time and effort and makes the game more fun in general.The community has criticized Dire for being overpowered for five years. It was not added to sPvP when it released because it was recognized as being obviously overpowered. I know WvW isn't "intended to be balanced," but it's the more popular format and these stat combos are making the game less fun for a lot of people and cause a lot of unnecessary nerfs to professions and general frustration as a consequence.If you're serious about balancing the competitive game modes, it's a necessary change.It's been five years of complaints.You do realize PvP is not affected by gear and mentioned stats are gone already there? Your entire first point to blame this on PvP is kinda pointless is what I’m saying lol.The staying of these stats is purely a wvw issue and I agree should be removed to improve the health of roaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @BeLZedaR.4790 said:@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Big tip for making game balance a bit easier for you guys:Remove Dire/TB from the game. I know that begs for whining but seriously, these sets are broken and have created a huge disparity between sPvP and WvW.Your WvW base is larger and you should not relegate profession balance/design to be catered to a format no longer seen to be competitive by the ESL. Unless you intend to split balance between sPvP, WvW, and PvE three ways, which demands massive nerfs to most condition specs in WvW, making all other kits completely pointless and reducing build diversity, the easiest and best solution to creating healthy gameplay across all formats is removal of these sets. The tech is there. You did this with the Magic Find stat. Nobody runs these in PvE because doubling down on damage is more valuable.Most condi complaints come more from the asinine amounts of sustain from Dire/TB in WvW than the actual builds themselves. This small change would be one of the healthiest and most game-changing things to happen to the format and better-unify PvP and WvW conceptually and numerically to reduce contrasting complaints without running into lots of nuances. It saves everyone time and effort and makes the game more fun in general.The community has criticized Dire for being overpowered for five years. It was not added to sPvP when it released because it was recognized as being obviously overpowered. I know WvW isn't "intended to be balanced," but it's the more popular format and these stat combos are making the game less fun for a lot of people and cause a lot of unnecessary nerfs to professions and general frustration as a consequence.If you're serious about balancing the competitive game modes, it's a necessary change.It's been five years of complaints.You do realize PvP is not affected by gear and mentioned stats are gone already there? Your entire first point to blame this on PvP is kinda pointless is what I’m saying lol.The staying of these stats is purely a wvw issue and I agree should be removed to improve the health of roaming. The issue there is that WvW gear has actual investment behind it. Unlike with PvP amulets that get removed, ANet can't just refund the gold cost because that gear doesn't have a set cost.Now, this wouldn't be the first time a stat combo was removed from the game (Magic Find used to be gear-based), but that's what it would be: removed from the game. These stat combos aren't causing problems for anyone outside of WvW, but why should the PvE players lose their gear? Magic Find, due to not being a combat stat, could be outsourced off of gear without much problem, but Dire and Trailblazers are all combat stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe.1807 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @Felipe.1807 said:@Shadowcat.2680 said:@witcher.3197 said:@Shadowcat.2680 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:@Vagrant.7206 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:Holo nerfs are so warranted for WvW though.Seriously you can't even get near one of these things if played well without just being autokilled unless you have allies. Bro.Engi barely exists in WvW. You want to eliminate it entirely?I think you mean it barely exists in blobs. It's extremely common otherwise.Currently, holo is commonly seen as the best 1v1 and small-group classes in the game right now. People are complaining a lot about mesmers right now, but honestly, the available counters to mirage are higher than to that of holosmith. It's relative strength in WvW is actually better than sPvP; build tweaks which work better in WvW/are not conducive to sPvP, and stat/food tweaks which can close some of its areas of weakness. It out-trades literally everything in the game if played reasonably well.Holosmith needs a little toning down with its damage but not to the extent proposed by the splits thread. The initial thread had holosmith as getting its damage nerfed more than any other profession, suggesting holosmith is the hardest hitting profession in WvW and that's simply not the case. A good mesmer or thief will burst you down quicker than a good holosmith. I'd be interested in knowing what build tweaks work better in WvW as I haven't been able to make heads or tails of holosmith builds since they split engi's sustain between Alchemy and Inventions.Holosmith needs to be butchered, not "toned down a little". Even before release it was painfully obvious to everyone just by watching the dev stream and reading the wiki that the base damage on photon forge skills is too high. You're not going to get a clear picture of how a profession plays by reading the wiki or watching streams. They'll give you some idea but nothing compares to playing or playing against the profession. Especially playing the profession yourself. Holosmiths are decently simple to counter on a number of professions once you know all their flashy tells.I dont know, a Holosmith was able to out damage my Zeal/Radiance Valk Guard, he didnt even bothered to evade or move out of Greatsword Symbol and Whirling Wrath, I was forced to dodge or else he would put me down...the passive invul did trigger, but still this shows how Holo damage is over the top, needs a huge nerf, that or remove all the mobility from it...something needs to go.If you didn't die (barely), and his elixir S procced... sounds like you guys were doing a pretty close amount of damage to each other. Since holo has the potential to self destruct, no ability to teleport, no block, and relatively low disengage, sounds about like a fair fight to me.Also, mobility, really? The only real mobility holo has comes from traited rocket boots, which A) is core and B ) Not that effective a disengage.So i decided to play Holosmith again, you know "Why instead of complain you dont play one to understand how it works?"...before going in to the results, some important info that must be said:-I was allready used to play Engi, but this was back in the Cele Meta...I was pretty good at it, but again been years since i last touched Engi in any competitive way.-I only played Holosmith during the beta week.-This is a 2 hours WvW roaming experience.-The build...I didnt bother to look for builds, basically I just searched for whatever was the Trait lines that gave me the passive invul and the mines on dodge and offcourse, Holosmith.-The Gear...5 pieces of Soldier Gear with Mercy Runes(lol was still using AC gear) and one Marauder with Holo rune(is the one you get from unlocking the spec)/2 rare cele trinkets(christmas stuff lol), 2 fine quality rings(+8 power or something), Power/Toughness/Ferocity ascended amulet(dont know the name of it), Zerker Rifle without sigils, no food or nourishments. You can say I was handicapping myself hardcore...The Utilities...Turret heal/Invul elixir/Spectrum Shield/Elixir C/Prime Light Beam.First thing...I didnt have absurds amount of mobility as I though Holos had, maybe was because all my experience as fighting Holos is as Guard, and pretty much everyone can outrun a Guardian lol that or they were hacking or something(I seen Holos running faster then Warriors).But despite my lack on experince with the profession and handicapping myself with a extremely bad build, i had 60% win against other roamers, even made a DD thief rage quit hehe I only struggled against Condi builds(Scourge) and Spellbreakers...actually I lost against all SB, thanks to my build, my damage was way to low(low for a Holo standart) so they could outheal my damage every time I was out of Holo mode and they could also trade hits with me during Holo mode and force me to escape, but that is also thanks to endure pain and balance stance immunity to crits. While i got destroyed by warriors, Thiefs didnt had a chance against me, in even managed to 1v2 against a d/p and a staff DD...not sure if Holo is a counter to Thief or they were just extremely bad(they probably were bad lol), but was so easy to predict when they would try to hit from stealth and just use Holographic Shockwave and CC combo both to death.So yeah, probably gonna quit trying to roam with Guardian and start playing with Holo more, its extremely fun to play it and really rewarding was well...its OP as I though it was? Not really, it lacked the mobility that I thinked it have, but still, even playing a build that made no sense at all, i had really great sucess with it. It could use some damage nerfs for sure, when a PVT with basically no trinkets at all is doing 4K+ damage without being buffed by other sources I would say that something is wrong, but Anet allready said that Holo on WvW will not be touched, so yeah, more reasons to play one lol. 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Shadowcat.2680 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @Felipe.1807 said:@Felipe.1807 said:@Shadowcat.2680 said:@witcher.3197 said:@Shadowcat.2680 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:@Vagrant.7206 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:Holo nerfs are so warranted for WvW though.Seriously you can't even get near one of these things if played well without just being autokilled unless you have allies. Bro.Engi barely exists in WvW. You want to eliminate it entirely?I think you mean it barely exists in blobs. It's extremely common otherwise.Currently, holo is commonly seen as the best 1v1 and small-group classes in the game right now. People are complaining a lot about mesmers right now, but honestly, the available counters to mirage are higher than to that of holosmith. It's relative strength in WvW is actually better than sPvP; build tweaks which work better in WvW/are not conducive to sPvP, and stat/food tweaks which can close some of its areas of weakness. It out-trades literally everything in the game if played reasonably well.Holosmith needs a little toning down with its damage but not to the extent proposed by the splits thread. The initial thread had holosmith as getting its damage nerfed more than any other profession, suggesting holosmith is the hardest hitting profession in WvW and that's simply not the case. A good mesmer or thief will burst you down quicker than a good holosmith. I'd be interested in knowing what build tweaks work better in WvW as I haven't been able to make heads or tails of holosmith builds since they split engi's sustain between Alchemy and Inventions.Holosmith needs to be butchered, not "toned down a little". Even before release it was painfully obvious to everyone just by watching the dev stream and reading the wiki that the base damage on photon forge skills is too high. You're not going to get a clear picture of how a profession plays by reading the wiki or watching streams. They'll give you some idea but nothing compares to playing or playing against the profession. Especially playing the profession yourself. Holosmiths are decently simple to counter on a number of professions once you know all their flashy tells.I dont know, a Holosmith was able to out damage my Zeal/Radiance Valk Guard, he didnt even bothered to evade or move out of Greatsword Symbol and Whirling Wrath, I was forced to dodge or else he would put me down...the passive invul did trigger, but still this shows how Holo damage is over the top, needs a huge nerf, that or remove all the mobility from it...something needs to go.If you didn't die (barely), and his elixir S procced... sounds like you guys were doing a pretty close amount of damage to each other. Since holo has the potential to self destruct, no ability to teleport, no block, and relatively low disengage, sounds about like a fair fight to me.Also, mobility, really? The only real mobility holo has comes from traited rocket boots, which A) is core and B ) Not that effective a disengage.So i decided to play Holosmith again, you know "Why instead of complain you dont play one to understand how it works?"...before going in to the results, some important info that must be said:-I was allready used to play Engi, but this was back in the Cele Meta...I was pretty good at it, but again been years since i last touched Engi in any competitive way.-I only played Holosmith during the beta week.-This is a 2 hours WvW roaming experience.-The build...I didnt bother to look for builds, basically I just searched for whatever was the Trait lines that gave me the passive invul and the mines on dodge and offcourse, Holosmith.-The Gear...5 pieces of Soldier Gear with Mercy Runes(lol was still using AC gear) and one Marauder with Holo rune(is the one you get from unlocking the spec)/2 rare cele trinkets(christmas stuff lol), 2 fine quality rings(+8 power or something), Power/Toughness/Ferocity ascended amulet(dont know the name of it), Zerker Rifle without sigils, no food or nourishments. You can say I was handicapping myself hardcore...The Utilities...Turret heal/Invul elixir/Spectrum Shield/Elixir C/Prime Light Beam.First thing...I didnt have absurds amount of mobility as I though Holos had, maybe was because all my experience as fighting Holos is as Guard, and pretty much everyone can outrun a Guardian lol that or they were hacking or something(I seen Holos running faster then Warriors).But despite my lack on experince with the profession and handicapping myself with a extremely bad build, i had 60% win against other roamers, even made a DD thief rage quit hehe I only struggled against Condi builds(Scourge) and Spellbreakers...actually I lost against all SB, thanks to my build, my damage was way to low(low for a Holo standart) so they could outheal my damage every time I was out of Holo mode and they could also trade hits with me during Holo mode and force me to escape, but that is also thanks to endure pain and balance stance immunity to crits. While i got destroyed by warriors, Thiefs didnt had a chance against me, in even managed to 1v2 against a d/p and a staff DD...not sure if Holo is a counter to Thief or they were just extremely bad(they probably were bad lol), but was so easy to predict when they would try to hit from stealth and just use Holographic Shockwave and CC combo both to death.So yeah, probably gonna quit trying to roam with Guardian and start playing with Holo more, its extremely fun to play it and really rewarding was well...its OP as I though it was? Not really, it lacked the mobility that I thinked it have, but still, even playing a build that made no sense at all, i had really great sucess with it. It could use some damage nerfs for sure, when a PVT with basically no trinkets at all is doing 4K+ damage without being buffed by other sources I would say that something is wrong, but Anet allready said that Holo on WvW will not be touched, so yeah, more reasons to play one lol.A few thoughts on your experience:-Holo can counter thieves fairly well.-Warriors of any variety can hit holo pretty hard without even trying if they use the trait from Strength to do 3% bonus damage per boon on a target.-Running Explosives and Alchemy would leave you vulnerable to condis with Elixir C and Healing Turret as your only condi clear.-Holo doesn't really have great mobility without traited rocket boots and like ride the lightning for eles, a holo can be killed/CCed while using them.-I'd comment on the 4k PVT, but I'm not sure what you meant by PVT. If you meant Prime Light Beam, it hits hard and has a good coefficient. My holo will usually hit for around 9k against glassy builds with it, closer to 6k against things like a bunker firebrand. I don't think its damage is overtuned for the current state of the game (might change after they go forward with splits) as 9k damage to a glass cannon after a 1 1/4 second cast time is a good elite but not overwhelming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe.1807 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @Shadowcat.2680 said:@Felipe.1807 said:@Felipe.1807 said:@Shadowcat.2680 said:@witcher.3197 said:@Shadowcat.2680 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:@Vagrant.7206 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:Holo nerfs are so warranted for WvW though.Seriously you can't even get near one of these things if played well without just being autokilled unless you have allies. Bro.Engi barely exists in WvW. You want to eliminate it entirely?I think you mean it barely exists in blobs. It's extremely common otherwise.Currently, holo is commonly seen as the best 1v1 and small-group classes in the game right now. People are complaining a lot about mesmers right now, but honestly, the available counters to mirage are higher than to that of holosmith. It's relative strength in WvW is actually better than sPvP; build tweaks which work better in WvW/are not conducive to sPvP, and stat/food tweaks which can close some of its areas of weakness. It out-trades literally everything in the game if played reasonably well.Holosmith needs a little toning down with its damage but not to the extent proposed by the splits thread. The initial thread had holosmith as getting its damage nerfed more than any other profession, suggesting holosmith is the hardest hitting profession in WvW and that's simply not the case. A good mesmer or thief will burst you down quicker than a good holosmith. I'd be interested in knowing what build tweaks work better in WvW as I haven't been able to make heads or tails of holosmith builds since they split engi's sustain between Alchemy and Inventions.Holosmith needs to be butchered, not "toned down a little". Even before release it was painfully obvious to everyone just by watching the dev stream and reading the wiki that the base damage on photon forge skills is too high. You're not going to get a clear picture of how a profession plays by reading the wiki or watching streams. They'll give you some idea but nothing compares to playing or playing against the profession. Especially playing the profession yourself. Holosmiths are decently simple to counter on a number of professions once you know all their flashy tells.I dont know, a Holosmith was able to out damage my Zeal/Radiance Valk Guard, he didnt even bothered to evade or move out of Greatsword Symbol and Whirling Wrath, I was forced to dodge or else he would put me down...the passive invul did trigger, but still this shows how Holo damage is over the top, needs a huge nerf, that or remove all the mobility from it...something needs to go.If you didn't die (barely), and his elixir S procced... sounds like you guys were doing a pretty close amount of damage to each other. Since holo has the potential to self destruct, no ability to teleport, no block, and relatively low disengage, sounds about like a fair fight to me.Also, mobility, really? The only real mobility holo has comes from traited rocket boots, which A) is core and B ) Not that effective a disengage.So i decided to play Holosmith again, you know "Why instead of complain you dont play one to understand how it works?"...before going in to the results, some important info that must be said:-I was allready used to play Engi, but this was back in the Cele Meta...I was pretty good at it, but again been years since i last touched Engi in any competitive way.-I only played Holosmith during the beta week.-This is a 2 hours WvW roaming experience.-The build...I didnt bother to look for builds, basically I just searched for whatever was the Trait lines that gave me the passive invul and the mines on dodge and offcourse, Holosmith.-The Gear...5 pieces of Soldier Gear with Mercy Runes(lol was still using AC gear) and one Marauder with Holo rune(is the one you get from unlocking the spec)/2 rare cele trinkets(christmas stuff lol), 2 fine quality rings(+8 power or something), Power/Toughness/Ferocity ascended amulet(dont know the name of it), Zerker Rifle without sigils, no food or nourishments. You can say I was handicapping myself hardcore...The Utilities...Turret heal/Invul elixir/Spectrum Shield/Elixir C/Prime Light Beam.First thing...I didnt have absurds amount of mobility as I though Holos had, maybe was because all my experience as fighting Holos is as Guard, and pretty much everyone can outrun a Guardian lol that or they were hacking or something(I seen Holos running faster then Warriors).But despite my lack on experince with the profession and handicapping myself with a extremely bad build, i had 60% win against other roamers, even made a DD thief rage quit hehe I only struggled against Condi builds(Scourge) and Spellbreakers...actually I lost against all SB, thanks to my build, my damage was way to low(low for a Holo standart) so they could outheal my damage every time I was out of Holo mode and they could also trade hits with me during Holo mode and force me to escape, but that is also thanks to endure pain and balance stance immunity to crits. While i got destroyed by warriors, Thiefs didnt had a chance against me, in even managed to 1v2 against a d/p and a staff DD...not sure if Holo is a counter to Thief or they were just extremely bad(they probably were bad lol), but was so easy to predict when they would try to hit from stealth and just use Holographic Shockwave and CC combo both to death.So yeah, probably gonna quit trying to roam with Guardian and start playing with Holo more, its extremely fun to play it and really rewarding was well...its OP as I though it was? Not really, it lacked the mobility that I thinked it have, but still, even playing a build that made no sense at all, i had really great sucess with it. It could use some damage nerfs for sure, when a PVT with basically no trinkets at all is doing 4K+ damage without being buffed by other sources I would say that something is wrong, but Anet allready said that Holo on WvW will not be touched, so yeah, more reasons to play one lol.A few thoughts on your experience:-Holo can counter thieves fairly well.-Warriors of any variety can hit holo pretty hard without even trying if they use the trait from Strength to do 3% bonus damage per boon on a target.-Running Explosives and Alchemy would leave you vulnerable to condis with Elixir C and Healing Turret as your only condi clear.-Holo doesn't really have great mobility without traited rocket boots and like ride the lightning for eles, a holo can be killed/CCed while using them.-I'd comment on the 4k PVT, but I'm not sure what you meant by PVT. If you meant Prime Light Beam, it hits hard and has a good coefficient. My holo will usually hit for around 9k against glassy builds with it, closer to 6k against things like a bunker firebrand. I don't think its damage is overtuned for the current state of the game (might change after they go forward with splits) as 9k damage to a glass cannon after a 1 1/4 second cast time is a good elite but not overwhelming.PVT=Power/Toughness/Vitality, Soldier Gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueCar.1587 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I have a general request for the patch.Could you guys please fix the bugg that the dragon hunter's wings only remove imobilize when you land and not when you start jumping.If that is not a bugg please fix it anyway be cause it just doesnt make sense for a mobility skill. That is as if the warrior gs 5 would only remove imobilize after he ran for like 3 seconds on the very same place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:@saerni.2584 said:As per above title, @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration. Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.Additionally, we've decided not to unsplit anything for this release. After some internal conversation, we decided to keep this release more focused. However, for next balance release, we'll be evaluating our splits to see which should be made game-wide.So you'll be keeping the sorry state of Necro in PvE that was caused by poor balance for PvP?@Ghos.1326 said:@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:@saerni.2584 said:As per above title, @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration. Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.Additionally, we've decided not to unsplit anything for this release. After some internal conversation, we decided to keep this release more focused. However, for next balance release, we'll be evaluating our splits to see which should be made game-wide.Ben, You really need to iterate to your balance team that not everyone's opinion here really matters. Some of the changes you are not going to implement in certain environments are going to leave a few things really broken in terms of being overpowered. It is not the fault of your game, or your changes to the game made, that is ruining the wvw/pvp scene. it's the players. It's their lack of skill. Take some information into consideration, but do not take all.An example, but more for the pvp side, are all these people talking about the .5 seconds cast time for the shade skills. I pray to any god willing to listen and grant me my wish that you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT revert these changes. Because it will end up, again, being insta spam of 5 stacks of many condis each, an instant fear with no tells, which can then be followed up with more cc and more fear before you can even do anything to counter it. People hate to see their classes nerfed, especially when they've been overpowered and dominated the scene for so long. But what they don't realize is that some changes are absolutely necessary, if a chance for other players to counterplay is desperately needed.Keep this in mind, Ben, and to the balance team: You can't please everyone. So stop trying to.Maybe, in this case, you're on the field of the ones "lacking skill"? Counter play for shades is needed but honestly a "dodge now" mechanic is kind of puerile and honestly it apparently breaks WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @BeLZedaR.4790 said:@"DeceiverX.8361" said:Big tip for making game balance a bit easier for you guys:Remove Dire/TB from the game. I know that begs for whining but seriously, these sets are broken and have created a huge disparity between sPvP and WvW.Your WvW base is larger and you should not relegate profession balance/design to be catered to a format no longer seen to be competitive by the ESL. Unless you intend to split balance between sPvP, WvW, and PvE three ways, which demands massive nerfs to most condition specs in WvW, making all other kits completely pointless and reducing build diversity, the easiest and best solution to creating healthy gameplay across all formats is removal of these sets. The tech is there. You did this with the Magic Find stat. Nobody runs these in PvE because doubling down on damage is more valuable.Most condi complaints come more from the asinine amounts of sustain from Dire/TB in WvW than the actual builds themselves. This small change would be one of the healthiest and most game-changing things to happen to the format and better-unify PvP and WvW conceptually and numerically to reduce contrasting complaints without running into lots of nuances. It saves everyone time and effort and makes the game more fun in general.The community has criticized Dire for being overpowered for five years. It was not added to sPvP when it released because it was recognized as being obviously overpowered. I know WvW isn't "intended to be balanced," but it's the more popular format and these stat combos are making the game less fun for a lot of people and cause a lot of unnecessary nerfs to professions and general frustration as a consequence.If you're serious about balancing the competitive game modes, it's a necessary change.It's been five years of complaints.You do realize PvP is not affected by gear and mentioned stats are gone already there? Your entire first point to blame this on PvP is kinda pointless is what I’m saying lol.The staying of these stats is purely a wvw issue and I agree should be removed to improve the health of roaming. Yes. I specified they were never added in sPvP to begin with. Not sure how you could come to any other conclusion.I'm not blaming this on sPvP lol. I'm doing something called justifying an argument by attacking the costs and promoting the benefits of a cost-benefit analysis. And it's not a roaming-exclusive problem anymore; Dire/TB has become dominant in ZvZ play because of Scourge. Backline necro used to always be power wells in berserker gear, which meant they died pretty quickly if the frontline got penetrated. Now, you have a tanky "backline" of scourges which can be healed due to not actually using shroud with massive health and armor, on top of every single one of them getting huge amounts of barrier.It makes little sense to keep nerfing Scourge over and over as a class when the problem as to why the things won't die and deal so much damage is because they're on full-tank stats dealing just as much damage from boon corruption as any other kit while in WvW. The disparity between sPvP and WvW is also massive because in a lot of cases, "Focusing the scourge" isn't actually a valid tactic in WvW because of Dire/TB gear. So it has no real counter in WvW, and people will thus complain. In its current state, scourge will never not be played. I don't think it's actually possible for ANet to add anything into the game aside from something that's just passively permanently immune to everything without boons that'd replace this spec in WvW.So people are going to keep complaining until scourge is the next reaper. Now, I hate scourge's concept, but it's stupid to ignore the Dire/TB problem further if ANet is serious about fixing their game modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @"DeceiverX.8361" said:Big tip for making game balance a bit easier for you guys:Remove Dire/TB from the game. I know that begs for whining but seriously, these sets are broken and have created a huge disparity between sPvP and WvW.Your WvW base is larger and you should not relegate profession balance/design to be catered to a format no longer seen to be competitive by the ESL. Unless you intend to split balance between sPvP, WvW, and PvE three ways, which demands massive nerfs to most condition specs in WvW, making all other kits completely pointless and reducing build diversity, the easiest and best solution to creating healthy gameplay across all formats is removal of these sets. The tech is there. You did this with the Magic Find stat. Nobody runs these in PvE because doubling down on damage is more valuable.Most condi complaints come more from the asinine amounts of sustain from Dire/TB in WvW than the actual builds themselves. This small change would be one of the healthiest and most game-changing things to happen to the format and better-unify PvP and WvW conceptually and numerically to reduce contrasting complaints without running into lots of nuances. It saves everyone time and effort and makes the game more fun in general.The community has criticized Dire for being overpowered for five years. It was not added to sPvP when it released because it was recognized as being obviously overpowered. I know WvW isn't "intended to be balanced," but it's the more popular format and these stat combos are making the game less fun for a lot of people and cause a lot of unnecessary nerfs to professions and general frustration as a consequence.If you're serious about balancing the competitive game modes, it's a necessary change.It's been five years of complaints.Disagreed entirely. Dire and TB has little to do with balance issues in WvW anymore then Soldiers Shamans and Apothecary do. Your suggested fix is a Gimmick fix which then fuels a sudden need to remove other stat combos and creates another PvP type venue which many people do NOT WANT in WvW.In various warrior and thief builds, (which I am most familiar with) I have found stats comboes that outperform DIRE by a wide margin and as far as TB goes, the entire Condition duration type builds have already seen a significant hit with little change as far as overall balance goes.In WvW there are still more power builds then Condition builds and from my observations this gap is increasing. The Condition builds that are prevalent are still of very specific classes. Given the fact DIRE and TB can be used by any class , I do not see how any can conclude this a root cause of the problem.As to 5 years of complaints , that is coming from the same group of people for thos 5 years. It a meaningless number. As to the reasons it not in PVP, you compare apples to Oranges. PvP is designed to limit tankier builds simply by the nature of the format. There all manner of sigils/runes and armors not allowed in Pvp yet accessible in WvW and this hardly means they are OP. It simply means they not suitable for the format of Pvp.By the way out of 19 builds that are primarily WvW focused I have one In Dire. It a build I do not even play. Of the builds I do play with regularity I have one in TB and that is just for duration add. The added defenses it gets in the way of Vitality and Toughness are in fact lower then many of my power builds. My power build warrior uses Wanderers and Zerker comb just as example and ends with higher vitality and tougness then does the Condition thief I have thast still in TB. The warrior is a lot harder to kill. The thief relies on stealth and dodges for sustain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @DeceiverX.8361 said:@BeLZedaR.4790 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:Big tip for making game balance a bit easier for you guys:Remove Dire/TB from the game. I know that begs for whining but seriously, these sets are broken and have created a huge disparity between sPvP and WvW.Your WvW base is larger and you should not relegate profession balance/design to be catered to a format no longer seen to be competitive by the ESL. Unless you intend to split balance between sPvP, WvW, and PvE three ways, which demands massive nerfs to most condition specs in WvW, making all other kits completely pointless and reducing build diversity, the easiest and best solution to creating healthy gameplay across all formats is removal of these sets. The tech is there. You did this with the Magic Find stat. Nobody runs these in PvE because doubling down on damage is more valuable.Most condi complaints come more from the asinine amounts of sustain from Dire/TB in WvW than the actual builds themselves. This small change would be one of the healthiest and most game-changing things to happen to the format and better-unify PvP and WvW conceptually and numerically to reduce contrasting complaints without running into lots of nuances. It saves everyone time and effort and makes the game more fun in general.The community has criticized Dire for being overpowered for five years. It was not added to sPvP when it released because it was recognized as being obviously overpowered. I know WvW isn't "intended to be balanced," but it's the more popular format and these stat combos are making the game less fun for a lot of people and cause a lot of unnecessary nerfs to professions and general frustration as a consequence.If you're serious about balancing the competitive game modes, it's a necessary change.It's been five years of complaints.You do realize PvP is not affected by gear and mentioned stats are gone already there? Your entire first point to blame this on PvP is kinda pointless is what I’m saying lol.The staying of these stats is purely a wvw issue and I agree should be removed to improve the health of roaming. Yes. I specified they were never added in sPvP to begin with. Not sure how you could come to any other conclusion.I'm not blaming this on sPvP lol. I'm doing something called justifying an argument by attacking the costs and promoting the benefits of a cost-benefit analysis. And it's not a roaming-exclusive problem anymore; Dire/TB has become dominant in ZvZ play because of Scourge. Backline necro used to always be power wells in berserker gear, which meant they died pretty quickly if the frontline got penetrated. Now, you have a tanky "backline" of scourges which can be healed due to not actually using shroud with massive health and armor, on top of every single one of them getting huge amounts of barrier.It makes little sense to keep nerfing Scourge over and over as a class when the problem as to why the things won't die and deal so much damage is because they're on full-tank stats dealing just as much damage from boon corruption as any other kit while in WvW. The disparity between sPvP and WvW is also massive because in a lot of cases, "Focusing the scourge" isn't actually a valid tactic in WvW because of Dire/TB gear. So it has no real counter in WvW, and people will thus complain. In its current state, scourge will never not be played. I don't think it's actually possible for ANet to add anything into the game aside from something that's just passively permanently immune to everything without boons that'd replace this spec in WvW.So people are going to keep complaining until scourge is the next reaper. Now, I hate scourge's concept, but it's stupid to ignore the Dire/TB problem further if ANet is serious about fixing their game modes.I focus the scourge in WvW and kill it. I do not see how you can claim it does not work. The issue with ZvZ play is that the builds plus able to deal with Scourge in such a setting (ranged builds like DE and Ranger which can wreck a scourge) are hard to integrate into a zerg and this again has nothing to do with Dire. It just how group skills work in Concert with one another and how stacking "on the tag" provides exponential benefits.Case in point and that WOD on warrior. This skills is sub par when it used by a roamer as it provides little in the way of benefits to the Warrior in a 1v1. It does not matter what armor the warrior in. If this used in a Zerg Fight that bubble provides tremendous benefits to the group and is a must have for any warrior in that group irrespective of armor worn.To those Scourges roaming in dire and TB, they are easy kills for a DE or ranger. The dire does not help them. It is not the dire armor providing their defenses. It is the inability to engage at melee due to the conditions they can apply. If my DE meets a roaming Scourge in the world you envision, one where Dire not wearable, that scourge would become even an easier kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @Felipe.1807 said:@Felipe.1807 said:@Shadowcat.2680 said:@witcher.3197 said:@Shadowcat.2680 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:@Vagrant.7206 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:Holo nerfs are so warranted for WvW though.Seriously you can't even get near one of these things if played well without just being autokilled unless you have allies. Bro.Engi barely exists in WvW. You want to eliminate it entirely?I think you mean it barely exists in blobs. It's extremely common otherwise.Currently, holo is commonly seen as the best 1v1 and small-group classes in the game right now. People are complaining a lot about mesmers right now, but honestly, the available counters to mirage are higher than to that of holosmith. It's relative strength in WvW is actually better than sPvP; build tweaks which work better in WvW/are not conducive to sPvP, and stat/food tweaks which can close some of its areas of weakness. It out-trades literally everything in the game if played reasonably well.Holosmith needs a little toning down with its damage but not to the extent proposed by the splits thread. The initial thread had holosmith as getting its damage nerfed more than any other profession, suggesting holosmith is the hardest hitting profession in WvW and that's simply not the case. A good mesmer or thief will burst you down quicker than a good holosmith. I'd be interested in knowing what build tweaks work better in WvW as I haven't been able to make heads or tails of holosmith builds since they split engi's sustain between Alchemy and Inventions.Holosmith needs to be butchered, not "toned down a little". Even before release it was painfully obvious to everyone just by watching the dev stream and reading the wiki that the base damage on photon forge skills is too high. You're not going to get a clear picture of how a profession plays by reading the wiki or watching streams. They'll give you some idea but nothing compares to playing or playing against the profession. Especially playing the profession yourself. Holosmiths are decently simple to counter on a number of professions once you know all their flashy tells.I dont know, a Holosmith was able to out damage my Zeal/Radiance Valk Guard, he didnt even bothered to evade or move out of Greatsword Symbol and Whirling Wrath, I was forced to dodge or else he would put me down...the passive invul did trigger, but still this shows how Holo damage is over the top, needs a huge nerf, that or remove all the mobility from it...something needs to go.If you didn't die (barely), and his elixir S procced... sounds like you guys were doing a pretty close amount of damage to each other. Since holo has the potential to self destruct, no ability to teleport, no block, and relatively low disengage, sounds about like a fair fight to me.Also, mobility, really? The only real mobility holo has comes from traited rocket boots, which A) is core and B ) Not that effective a disengage.So i decided to play Holosmith again, you know "Why instead of complain you dont play one to understand how it works?"...before going in to the results, some important info that must be said:-I was allready used to play Engi, but this was back in the Cele Meta...I was pretty good at it, but again been years since i last touched Engi in any competitive way.-I only played Holosmith during the beta week.-This is a 2 hours WvW roaming experience.-The build...I didnt bother to look for builds, basically I just searched for whatever was the Trait lines that gave me the passive invul and the mines on dodge and offcourse, Holosmith.-The Gear...5 pieces of Soldier Gear with Mercy Runes(lol was still using AC gear) and one Marauder with Holo rune(is the one you get from unlocking the spec)/2 rare cele trinkets(christmas stuff lol), 2 fine quality rings(+8 power or something), Power/Toughness/Ferocity ascended amulet(dont know the name of it), Zerker Rifle without sigils, no food or nourishments. You can say I was handicapping myself hardcore...The Utilities...Turret heal/Invul elixir/Spectrum Shield/Elixir C/Prime Light Beam.First thing...I didnt have absurds amount of mobility as I though Holos had, maybe was because all my experience as fighting Holos is as Guard, and pretty much everyone can outrun a Guardian lol that or they were hacking or something(I seen Holos running faster then Warriors).But despite my lack on experince with the profession and handicapping myself with a extremely bad build, i had 60% win against other roamers, even made a DD thief rage quit hehe I only struggled against Condi builds(Scourge) and Spellbreakers...actually I lost against all SB, thanks to my build, my damage was way to low(low for a Holo standart) so they could outheal my damage every time I was out of Holo mode and they could also trade hits with me during Holo mode and force me to escape, but that is also thanks to endure pain and balance stance immunity to crits. While i got destroyed by warriors, Thiefs didnt had a chance against me, in even managed to 1v2 against a d/p and a staff DD...not sure if Holo is a counter to Thief or they were just extremely bad(they probably were bad lol), but was so easy to predict when they would try to hit from stealth and just use Holographic Shockwave and CC combo both to death.So yeah, probably gonna quit trying to roam with Guardian and start playing with Holo more, its extremely fun to play it and really rewarding was well...its OP as I though it was? Not really, it lacked the mobility that I thinked it have, but still, even playing a build that made no sense at all, i had really great sucess with it. It could use some damage nerfs for sure, when a PVT with basically no trinkets at all is doing 4K+ damage without being buffed by other sources I would say that something is wrong, but Anet allready said that Holo on WvW will not be touched, so yeah, more reasons to play one lol.Thank you for trying it. As I've said before, it needs a damage shave, range reduction on autoattack, and maybe increased heat generation, but it's not far from where it should be in terms of balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 Baba, Dire was excluded from sPvP since its inception, despite there being tank stats in the format prior such as Soldier's, because it was mathematically seen as too overpowered to include in the format since it was released. That is ANet's claim. The removal of tank stats was a motion made after HoT because bunkers were unkillable from powercreep and because the format lacks in offensive stat capabilities + the nature of the format.It seems like you ignored the entirety of my post content. The problem isn't confined to roaming anymore.And don't even try to compare Soldier's gear to Dire/TB. The difference is so astronomical it's insane.Your Wanderer/Zerk warrior doesn't ignore armor nor do its disabling effects have increased durations. This is what matters more in WvW play right now than anything.If there are better options for other classes, then that's fine. It's a problem on Scourge. And it makes balance harder. I don't see then how this is a problem to just remove it if apparently nobody else is using the stat setup and if it fixes a huge balance disparity.Every single mainstream oppressive condi build in the history of WvW has had one thing in common: Dire/TB. Grenade engi, Trapper thief. Condi mes. D/D DB thief.Mace Berserker. Reaper. To be honest, it doesn't matter what you specifically run. Perhaps the possibility of you being a good player has allowed you to play more aggressive builds with more offensive pressure and lower defenses. At the moment, these stat configs are just massive stat-sticks that break a lot of attempts to balance the mode which half the time end up getting professions nerfed in areas that don't need them which affects more builds than just the dire/tb condi ones.If the answer to combating a stat configuration is to reroll a ranged DPS class, that is a problem. Dire/TB makes scourge win all melee trades as of current because they can straight-tank them.Maybe if there are fears about condition builds being too weak or a class being too weak because of its removal, they could actually have room to buff and fix a number of builds. Scourge now under-performing because it can be killed in melee? Good, its damage access can be bumped or its self-barrier and healing power coefficients improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:@Turk.5460 said:@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:@saerni.2584 said:As per above title, @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 has mentioned a plan to receive feedback and post an updated list of changes for consideration. Is this still the plan or is that likely next week?We're still working on some additions. It's taking a bit longer than we hoped, but still planning on revising the list on the forums next week.Quick preview:Druid nerfs are changing to PvP only.Holosmith nerfs are changing to PvP only.In progress: Evaluating Thief changes.In progress: Evaluating Mesmer changes.For clarification, PvP only changes include WvW?Nope! Druid and Holosmith nerfs are not going to WvW for now.Sure hope you keep the Ranger Signet of Stone active duration nerf in WvW. 6s of immunity to direct damage is ridiculous.That one is still on the list. It's more of a side-grade than a nerf.U guys need to bring back the old aegis :) instead of 6s or imunity u guys could go with the 6s of aegis xD, still would feel strange to have aegis on a ranger and on a signet ._. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 @"DeceiverX.8361" said:Baba, Dire was excluded from sPvP since its inception, despite there being tank stats in the format prior such as Soldier's, because it was mathematically seen as too overpowered to include in the format since it was released. That is ANet's claim. The removal of tank stats was a motion made after HoT because bunkers were unkillable from powercreep and because the format lacks in offensive stat capabilities + the nature of the format.It seems like you ignored the entirety of my post content. The problem isn't confined to roaming anymore.And don't even try to compare Soldier's gear to Dire/TB. The difference is so astronomical it's insane.Your Wanderer/Zerk warrior doesn't ignore armor nor do its disabling effects have increased durations. This is what matters more in WvW play right now than anything.If there are better options for other classes, then that's fine. It's a problem on Scourge. And it makes balance harder. I don't see then how this is a problem to just remove it if apparently nobody else is using the stat setup and if it fixes a huge balance disparity.Every single mainstream oppressive condi build in the history of WvW has had one thing in common: Dire/TB. Grenade engi, Trapper thief. Condi mes. D/D DB thief.Mace Berserker. Reaper. To be honest, it doesn't matter what you specifically run. Perhaps the possibility of you being a good player has allowed you to play more aggressive builds with more offensive pressure and lower defenses. At the moment, these stat configs are just massive stat-sticks that break a lot of attempts to balance the mode which half the time end up getting professions nerfed in areas that don't need them which affects more builds than just the dire/tb condi ones.If the answer to combating a stat configuration is to reroll a ranged DPS class, that is a problem. Dire/TB makes scourge win all melee trades as of current because they can straight-tank them.Maybe if there are fears about condition builds being too weak or a class being too weak because of its removal, they could actually have room to buff and fix a number of builds. Scourge now under-performing because it can be killed in melee? Good, its damage access can be bumped or its self-barrier and healing power coefficients improved. Again your entire post refers to The Scourge, one singular profession and then makes the illogical conclusion that the issues with Scourge related to Dire.I do not play Scourge enough to comment on it but I have little doubt I can design a build using a set other then Dire or TB and have a scourge equally as effective and just as sustainable and in particular if it part of a Zerg. Your comment on "every single opporessive condition build in wvw " having dire/tb in common is simply incorrect and is misleading at best. The reason those condition builds are oppressive is because of the Conditions and traits available to the build NOT the armor. That most might be in Dire or TB is not because this the focus of the build, it is because there no REASON to take any other types of armor because there are few traits or utilities or skills in those builds that can take advantage of another set of stats.Again. One of the most complained about builds from a Condition perspective was the WvW thief DB build using Dagger Dagger. I absolutely 100 percent assure you that a build using d/d DB Condition and in come combination of Shamans/Apothecary and settlers out performed one in dire or TB this againt both that Thief using the same build in Dire and against other classes. Such a build had marginally lower toughness and raw condition damage but more then made up for it with incoming heals. I would 1 v 5 people on this build and prevail while using NO stealth something I could not do if in a dire version. (and no I am not a "highly skilled" player)The reason this build worked better with healing was because of SOM and the 9 attacks that a DB could provide. The payback on those heals was more then you could get as payback by being in dire. You could pump out virtually the same damage per DB while drawing in well over 2k healing per DB.The reason I no longer use that build is that it became boring to play , and was rather easily countered once the player base learned its weaknesses and those Counters (immobs kiting stuns etc) worked equally as well against the version in Dire as the version in some other combination of armor and those counters lead to that thief being equally dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K THEN.5162 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" Would it be possible if you could look at the interaction between the master of manipulation trait in the chaos specialization and Mass Invisibility? In it's current state, when you finish casting mass invisibility and are running that trait then it "buffs" you with projectile reflection and if you do in fact reflect a projectile, then it reveals you, rendering the entire skill useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americium.7182 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 @Felipe.1807 said:@Shadowcat.2680 said:@witcher.3197 said:@Shadowcat.2680 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:@Vagrant.7206 said:@DeceiverX.8361 said:Holo nerfs are so warranted for WvW though.Seriously you can't even get near one of these things if played well without just being autokilled unless you have allies. Bro.Engi barely exists in WvW. You want to eliminate it entirely?I think you mean it barely exists in blobs. It's extremely common otherwise.Currently, holo is commonly seen as the best 1v1 and small-group classes in the game right now. People are complaining a lot about mesmers right now, but honestly, the available counters to mirage are higher than to that of holosmith. It's relative strength in WvW is actually better than sPvP; build tweaks which work better in WvW/are not conducive to sPvP, and stat/food tweaks which can close some of its areas of weakness. It out-trades literally everything in the game if played reasonably well.Holosmith needs a little toning down with its damage but not to the extent proposed by the splits thread. The initial thread had holosmith as getting its damage nerfed more than any other profession, suggesting holosmith is the hardest hitting profession in WvW and that's simply not the case. A good mesmer or thief will burst you down quicker than a good holosmith. I'd be interested in knowing what build tweaks work better in WvW as I haven't been able to make heads or tails of holosmith builds since they split engi's sustain between Alchemy and Inventions.Holosmith needs to be butchered, not "toned down a little". Even before release it was painfully obvious to everyone just by watching the dev stream and reading the wiki that the base damage on photon forge skills is too high. You're not going to get a clear picture of how a profession plays by reading the wiki or watching streams. They'll give you some idea but nothing compares to playing or playing against the profession. Especially playing the profession yourself. Holosmiths are decently simple to counter on a number of professions once you know all their flashy tells.Holo damage is over the top, needs a huge nerf, that or remove all the mobility from it...something needs to go.Just nerf his CD on Holo Leap and Rocket boots from 2s to something like 6s. That would be a decent nerf for roamers without affecting too much on his role in wvw/gvg.Also some of those trait nerfs would be completely fine for zerg players (Aim Assisted Rocket, Minesweeper).We need targeted nerfs for his roaming aspect, but "completely deleting" his role in zergs by nerfing all damage is not okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I hate to be the one to break it to you, but holosmith does not have a role in zergs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americium.7182 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 @DeceiverX.8361 said:I hate to be the one to break it to you, but holosmith does not have a role in zergs.I'm mostly talking about top guilds not public ebg commanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Druide will not get nerfed in wvw?Can i ask why?Its to strong in small scale(waaaaaay to strong)And by design useless in Zerg Play. ( You cant change that)A nerf in WvW would make sense.Its so sad. For the first time in ages , i thought anet goes in the right direction.Only to find out that the balance patch will come later than expected and good changes are taken out for no reason.Hope/Hype Train is slowing down fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styxxis.9025 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Yo can Soulbeast's please get a shared cd pet swap mechanic? the way it is now is pointless and feels half baked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americium.7182 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 @DanAlcedo.3281 said:Its so sad. For the first time in ages , i thought anet goes in the right direction.Balancing RvR gamemode only around small scale combat is right direction? @DanAlcedo.3281 said:A nerf in WvW would make sense.You can easily nerf roaming druid without having any effect on zergs. Nerf pets (they are completely useless in large scale anyway) and stealth thait.Healing and CD nerf is a step in a wrong direction and i'm glad they won't take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 @Americium.7182 said:@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Its so sad. For the first time in ages , i thought anet goes in the right direction.Balancing RvR gamemode only around small scale combat is right direction? Yes. You can not make Druide usefull in Zerg Play. Thats impossible.So why not nerf something thats OP is Small Scale Play , when it will never be viable in Zerg Play anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americium.7182 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 @DanAlcedo.3281 said:@Americium.7182 said:@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Its so sad. For the first time in ages , i thought anet goes in the right direction.Balancing RvR gamemode only around small scale combat is right direction? Yes. You can not make Druide usefull in Zerg Play. Thats impossible.So why not nerf something thats OP is Small Scale Play , when it will never be viable in Zerg Play anyway?Any arguments why druid is bad for zergs? Druid has everything to be viable. It's only a matter of numbers.I'm not saying roaming druid don't deserve a nerf. But those CD and healing changes are just straight up bad for a gamemode overall. There are dozens of other ways to nerf him (sword, celestial shadow, ancient seeds, staff damage, pets, quickening zephyr etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 @Americium.7182 said:@DanAlcedo.3281 said:@Americium.7182 said:@DanAlcedo.3281 said:Its so sad. For the first time in ages , i thought anet goes in the right direction.Balancing RvR gamemode only around small scale combat is right direction? Yes. You can not make Druide usefull in Zerg Play. Thats impossible.So why not nerf something thats OP is Small Scale Play , when it will never be viable in Zerg Play anyway?Any arguments why druid is bad for zergs? Druid has everything to be viable. It's only a matter of numbers.I'm not saying roaming druid don't deserve a nerf. But those CD and healing changes are just straight up bad for a gamemode overall. There are dozens of other ways to nerf him.Ok. Lets get started.Druid is not "bad" for zergs , but there are 6 classes more viable than Druid.Also druide has a lot of problems/weaknesses that the other 6 classes have not.The question should always be: If you have the choice between x and y , which do you chose?Firebrand Vs Druide = FirebrandScourge Vs Druide = ScourgeChrono Vs Druide = ChronoWeaver Vs Druide = WeaverWarrior VS Druide = WarriorRevenat Vs Druide = RevenantYou only have 50 Spots in a Zerg and you want the best possible picks for it.Druide is not a " Allround carefree packet" like Firebrand or scourge.Druide is not a "BIG DICK AOE CRIT " Class like Rev and Weaver.Druide has no " essential wvw skills " like Mesmer and Warrior.The Problems that Druide has are:He has no good weapon for WvW.The only weapons you COULD say are somewhat ok are Warhorn ( which is pointless because of rev ) and Staff (which has not much going for it).This means the left side of the skillbar is complete garbage.The same goes for Warrior and Mesmer but they have skills like WoD / Veil / Portal / Gravity Well.The right side is also not good.Go ingame and look at your utility bar.Name me one skill thats is so good in WvW that is makes the lack of good weapons not matter.CA is just not good enough to make Druide usefull.Burst Healing in general is not good. You only need Burst Healing if a player is on 10-15% Life.But that means he go hit by a Bomb and survived.That means the player sucks for getting hit by a Bomb and/or the enemy Zerg has not enough dmg to kill people.So Burst Healing is only good if your people are bad or the enemy zerg is bad.A viable Pug Zerg is :10 Firebrands (mandatory)0 - 10 Revs2-4 Chronos (mandatory)2-4 Spellbreaker (mandatory)2-4 Weaver20 - 30 Scourges (mostly mandatory)Can a druide compete with any of these classes when Rev and Weaver only barely make in into viable picks?You cant make Druide good for Zerg Play.They would have to created 2 complete new weapons or give druide mandatory utility skills.Thats not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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