Deadeye damage

[Jinks.2057]

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:

@Barzah.8019 said:Er...actually Deadeye rifle can outdamage pistol unload, and you can do it in 4 to 6 second interval. Many people still think that rifle is another straightforward weapon like pistol, just spam 3 3 3 3 3 and win the prize. When you use the rifle, you need to develop a certain rotation instead of spamming 1 or 2 button in order to achieve maximum damage output. Based on my experience, choosing between maleficent seven and quickness A.K.A be quick or be dead will affect the rifle skill rotation. Once you found your skill rotation, it will be easy for you to deal 13k to 31k damage per shot in less than 10 second.

tldr; pick maleficent seven for damage output rifle, or be quick or be killed for quick burst that also work wonder on other weapon than rifle.

Sadly that 31k hit has nothing to do with dps. It isn't the 31k hits that's the problem, it's that most of the damage is front loaded using DJ with 7 stacks. The rest of the time we are sitting ducks doing wet noodle damage. You'll never be able to take rifle into a raid until changes are made.

Who cares about rifle in raids. Use DD and a staff or another class it's fucking PvE.

You got a new spec and it's pretty damn selfish of PvE players to expect EVERY new elite to be the BEST DEEPS FOR RAIDZORS.

DE & Rifle in the grand scheme of the game is good. The importance of "meta" in PvE raids is something the dev team should never even consider in terms of game balance.

[Vindicus.2130]

1 tick of firebrand burn = 3 DJs. Balance.

[Barzah.8019]

@Riddle.2714 said:Any reason not using executioner instead of improvisation for deadly arts?Yeah, mercy's unexpectedly good. Not only for quickness, but also potential 7 inits with maleficent seven. It effectively refreshes DE's rotation, converting DE's bursty nature to a more sustained DPS. Mark is 25 secs duration, so its downtime is only 5 secs. It won't leave my utility slot now :)

Improvisation will give you two stack of the same stolen skill twice + add a bit damage, which make it count as another source of constant damage since deadeye mark refresh when the target die & mercy utility do exist.

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Sadly that 31k hit has nothing to do with dps. It isn't the 31k hits that's the problem, it's that most of the damage is front loaded using DJ with 7 stacks. The rest of the time we are sitting ducks doing wet noodle damage. You'll never be able to take rifle into a raid until changes are made.

I manage to get 7 stack of malice in 7 to 8 second without using shadow melt, and at that point i still got plenty of initiative left for 2 DJ spam (3 with roll for initiative). At this point im pretty sure that Rifle could easily achieve way higher damage than p/p on long term combat.

[Saraneth.6021]

@Amante.8109 said:

@Saraneth.6021 said:Hmm. All I can say is that it has only been a few days. Give them a chance. If you don't like something discuss it. Don't do what DeceiverX wants and stay quite. Be vocal. Being vocal about issues you are having is healthy. Just be nice about it.These types of comments are as useless as always, because they willfully ignore years of context. Thief has been neglected by the devs for a lot longer than "a few days", in fact they're currently repeating the exact same pattern of mistakes they made with Daredevil early on... actually, scratch that, Daredevil got more changes during HoT beta and release than Deadeye, which so far has been untouched from its original iteration (other than a few last minute nerfs!).

When they at least start

ACKNOWLEDGING

feedback--let alone implementing any of it--I'll start giving them the benefit of the doubt. Until then...

I'm sorry. Just trying to be as upbeat as I can :anguished:

[Riddle.2714]

@Barzah.8019 said:

@Riddle.2714 said:Any reason not using executioner instead of improvisation for deadly arts?Yeah, mercy's unexpectedly good. Not only for quickness, but also potential 7 inits with maleficent seven. It effectively refreshes DE's rotation, converting DE's bursty nature to a more sustained DPS. Mark is 25 secs duration, so its downtime is only 5 secs. It won't leave my utility slot now :)

Improvisation will give you two stack of the same stolen skill twice + add a bit damage, which make it count as another source of constant damage since deadeye mark refresh when the target die & mercy utility do exist.

I thought it has 20 secs cd?EDIT : nvm, the cd part only affects the category-refresh part

In other words, good synergy with quickness trait. This worth a try :)

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

It feels like way too much of deadeye's damage is back-loaded. The rifle skills are unremarkable in damage output... until I hit 7 malice. Then Death's Judgement hits for 25k-30k solo, upwards of 45k in groups. I've been trying to figure a way to work it into a DPS rotation, where I camp dagger auto for the first 11 seconds then swap to Rifle for a couple of quick 45k hits and shadowflare, but the coming down from that is pretty severe. It just isn't better than autos in the long run, and even when finishing off a weakened enemy heartseeker spam does more damage.

As much as I like the idea of a slow build up, in practice "eventually" just doesn't work. It is better to have a consistently good weapon than it is to have a weapon that sub-par but averages out to be good due to a single skill.

Triple shot is underpowered. At resting berserker power, unload hits for 3368 over 1.5 seconds for 3 initiative, coming to 748 dps per initiative. Three round burst hits for 2001 damage over 1 second for 4 initiative, coming to 500 dps per initiative. The difference is large, even before you consider the opportunity costs. Unload is mobile and stacks triple the might, where triple shot forcibly roots you. The payoff just isn't enough.

So I tried a few rotations on the DPS golem. I have some interesting results:

1: Deadeye and Daredevil do roughly the same melee damage. Though daredevil is more complicated and more fun, both specs hit about 29k DPS, no food, with every buff imaginable.

2: Under max buffs, both Be Quick or Be Killed and Maleficent Seven again have roughly the same damage. Came up with both being in the 29k range.

3: The rifle is slightly stronger than the pistol in a laboratory. Conserving initiative until reaching max malice, the pistol would average about 23 to 24k DPS while the Rifle would average around 24 to 25k DPS. This was a roughly 1k difference through and through. However, I'd still argue that the Rifle is Underpowered given it's high opportunity costs.

It is ironic that, with all of the crazy numbers floating around, the Deadeye is the balanced spec out of the bunch. Though one can argue that the Daredevil is a better skirmisher, due to more mobility, higher engagement time, more evades, and better access to burst, these factors do not show up on a DPS test.

[Tringsh.2380]

I've shelved DE and gone back to DD. DE just feels way to clunky and disjointed for a class that survives due to mobility and stealth. The only real skill that I love is the backwards dodge (skill 4) and being rooted on top of having to build malice is simply the bloody worst. The saddest thing about this is we aren't going to get a rework we are just going to get some buffs to core damage or a reduction on ini cost.

[Gor.3460]

After playing DE in PvE I got back that feeling of operating vanilla Thief on his first arrival in HoT - standing on the ground spamming crits and hoping to melt a mob before he or his buddies destroy you. Wasn't really viable in HoT maps for me, because you can lose full healthpool pretty fast. Daredevil was fun at first, but when you know how to play him, he becomes pretty braindead, so I really like the fact that they buffed old playstyle.The exact problems of d/d or d/p PvE for me were lack of solid ranged options (doing main damage requires being attacked in melee as well from the first second) and the actual damage of power dagger could be better.So now they gave me those instruments - a rifle to engage monsters as I please and mark with ton of boons so my hands become sewing machines. All that, and they even gave some love to stealth gameplay, which goes with the knives too. Now I can go out in the sun, on a raptor, with my Betty, with a folding stool, pick any living creature, shoot off its ankles, give it a 20k headshot, lure it in my traps and finish up close, if by any means it will still be alive. Also, daggers take care of small trash groups, as they've taken care of those since vanilla leveling.For me, I guess this was the type of gameplay they implied with this spec. I've suffered a little at first too, trying to play rifle only, as it were with Daredevil, turns out you've got to be a little more flexible, which is definitely not a boring or bad thing. And I must add, tough melee world bosses and meta feels really good now, when you shoot them with rifle and not the shortbow.There are clunky moments though, obviously, most of them were mentioned many times. For me its not the cast time of mark, not malice generation speed, but insane initiative cost of rifle skills. I almost never use triple shot, cause saving ini for full malice and 4. Also, playing with stealth kneel and without Trickery really use up all of your bar, that was probably intended, but still. And cantrip cooldowns way too high, in open world PvE you'd want to kill one mob after another, using immobilize or knokback sometimes just to play at range a little longer (its fun, hey). With cooldowns as those you're better off just plain taking signets. And autoattack of rifle could be a little better, of course.

TL;DR: I like the gameplay of Deadeye, its somewhat challenging, but rewarding with fat crits and the feel of having advantage over enemy. Definitely a complete new feeling to Thief, with a buff to old weapon sets gameplay. As for damage benchmark - I'm not the caring kind, if I can reliably PvE solo and can provide ranged dps on bosses - I'm all right. As for balance fixes and fluidness - I have a logical reason to calmly hope that this will be reviewed by Anet, as well as the players eventually will become better at spec and find decent builds.

[symke.3105]

I agree DE could do more damage and skills cold cost less initiative. I've tried it for a bit but found my results seriously lacking so I returned to my DD. After reading your thougths in this post I have to agree with many of them, but I do wonder: What are we prepared to sacrifice for an option to stay at 1500 range and "safely" shoot at targets? Is DE's focus on ST attacks this sacrifice?I find it very difficult to compare DD and DE. One has to stay in melee risking a lot, but does good AOE damage, the other stays far away, risking little, but has mostly ST attacks. Should they do comparable DPS?

[LazerusKI.7485]

@Barzah.8019 said:Er...actually Deadeye rifle can outdamage pistol unload, and you can do it in 4 to 6 second interval. Many people still think that rifle is another straightforward weapon like pistol, just spam 3 3 3 3 3 and win the prize. When you use the rifle, you need to develop a certain rotation instead of spamming 1 or 2 button in order to achieve maximum damage output. Based on my experience, choosing between maleficent seven and quickness A.K.A be quick or be dead will affect the rifle skill rotation. Once you found your skill rotation, it will be easy for you to deal 13k to 31k damage per shot in less than 10 second.

tldr; pick maleficent seven for damage output rifle, or be quick or be killed for quick burst that also work wonder on other weapon than rifle.

as i mentioned, sure DJ can outdamae Unload, in my case TRB was at 5k, Unload at 10k and DJ at 15k. Thats all nice and fine, but not worth using when Unload costs almost no Initiative so you can spam it, while Rifle is forced to do 2k autoattacks after your rotation where you maybe hit once or twice with DJ before you run out of Initiative all while you cant run around and cant use it in bossfights (i couldnt use Rifle in most bossfights so far because i always had to get out of fields)Not to mention that Unload can stack more effects on enemies due to the amount of hits and possible crits. Sure TRB stacks 9 Might, compared to what Unload does its nothing.TRB needs to atleast deal damage similar to Unload to even have a reason to exist, in groups there is someone else anyway who stacks might for you. The current damage is fine for the standing version of it, but not while kneeling.

And when you then consider that Firebrand deals like 5 times the damage that deadeye can...while moving around and laughing

[Zalavaaris.5329]

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:

@Barzah.8019 said:Er...actually Deadeye rifle can outdamage pistol unload, and you can do it in 4 to 6 second interval. Many people still think that rifle is another straightforward weapon like pistol, just spam 3 3 3 3 3 and win the prize. When you use the rifle, you need to develop a certain rotation instead of spamming 1 or 2 button in order to achieve maximum damage output. Based on my experience, choosing between maleficent seven and quickness A.K.A be quick or be dead will affect the rifle skill rotation. Once you found your skill rotation, it will be easy for you to deal 13k to 31k damage per shot in less than 10 second.

tldr; pick maleficent seven for damage output rifle, or be quick or be killed for quick burst that also work wonder on other weapon than rifle.

Sadly that 31k hit has nothing to do with dps. It isn't the 31k hits that's the problem, it's that most of the damage is front loaded using DJ with 7 stacks. The rest of the time we are sitting ducks doing wet noodle damage. You'll never be able to take rifle into a raid until changes are made.

Who cares about rifle in raids. Use DD and a staff or another class it's kitten PvE.

You got a new spec and it's pretty kitten selfish of PvE players to expect EVERY new elite to be the BEST DEEPS FOR RAIDZORS.

DE & Rifle in the grand scheme of the game is good. The importance of "meta" in PvE raids is something the dev team should never even consider in terms of game balance.

I care... and apparently a lot of other people do as well. The fact that you are separating yourself from pve players in your message makes me think you are exclusive to other game modes. Therefore you probably care for those modes balancing. If that's the case please read my op. This entire thread is about rifle dps in raids. You are OFF TOPIC

[Ashen.4061]

@LazerusKI.7485 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:People wanted a ranged burst "sniper" stealth kit, this is what that is.It doesn't do high DPS because it isn't meant to; like ranger longbow, it's meant to burst from range and provide tools to deal with engages or apply pressure from range, rather than just spewing high numbers, and it's not going to be balanced or done well, because the very nature of the concept of a stealth-mobile-sniper can't be well-designed for what the thief is already. Rifle, as a sniper weapon in terms of general viability, is a

bad idea

when it comes to proper game design in terms of GW2. Even in PvE, there's no risk in kneeling when range in it of itself is so safe based on how aggro works etc.

If you take issue with that design concept, you should have been here earlier, objecting to the multitude of threads which popped up every single day asking for this concept to be implemented, or supporting my ES proposal which offered substantially better ranged killing potential without cheese if that was what you are/were after.

The entire concept of rifle in its overarching design is a gimmick and people need to accept that. It can't be "balanced" by design. It is not a PvE weapon.If you have other problems with other professions dealing too much damage... take it up with those other professions, not to keep infinitely powercreeping the thief.

Otherwise you're just complaining about the fact it isn't "GG-ez" OP with a low skill floor like Daredevil has.

Rangers still have the ability to move and they have a pet. Deadeye has nothing like that, he is a sitting duck, so one would expect a glasscannon. You cant even talk about burst damage since the highest hitting stuff is locked behind malice, using the 4 without it is pretty much worthless. Every single other ability deals less damage for more Initiative than other weapons (like pistols). The "range advantage" is pretty much negated through the "sitting duck" mechanic.Guildwars is also still a story driven game with lots of pve content, not a pvp focused one, so implementing a spec that is only decent in pvp is stupid. Every single weapons should be atleast decent in both modes, obviously there is always something that is "best", but in this case the rifle is worse than everything we had before...and that shouldnt be the case. Seriously, usually people say "dont use P/P, it deals not enough damage" now i read "dont use Rifle, use P/P instead"...sounds crazy right?Obviously a melee class should deal more damage than a ranged class, high risk high reward. But what did the devs say again in the Deadeye introduction? He is the only ranged class that deals as much damage as a melee class because he cant move? Nice, where can i get that spec?And its not even about powercreeping at all, take a look at the day one changes:

@"Karl McLain.5604" said:

• Three-Round-Burst (Kneeling): Reduced damage by about 16%

For the most part, it's just bug fixes. We did feel that there was a more negative push with Three-Round-Burst in that pressing Death's Judgement was a bad decision, so we ended up slightly lowering TRB's damage. We'll continue to keep an

eye

on this elite specialization, making changes and balance adjustments as necessary.

So basically "Deaths Judgement wasn strong enough, players used TRB instead, so we nerfed TRB into the abyss"

I just tested it, TRB deals around 5k damage (crit) for me. Meanwhile with the same build my Unload deals twice as much while i can still run around and recover Initiatve to spam it even more...and i dont even have damage sigils in my pistols! Oh and Deaths Judgement with 7 malice deals 15k crit while it takes several seconds before i can even reach that, usually i have exactly one use of it because i dont have Initiative anymore...where exactly is the burst damage again? oh yeah...on my pistols!

Yep. My P/P build destroys anything I can do with Rifle.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVnsMBlOhdPBeOBUGjFwCbLEtWGReBgDQDgPNGHvjA-jpxHQBA4QAMwjAw1KDoh9HI4DAghnAAA

[LazerusKI.7485]

@Ashanor.5319 said:

@LazerusKI.7485 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:People wanted a ranged burst "sniper" stealth kit, this is what that is.It doesn't do high DPS because it isn't meant to; like ranger longbow, it's meant to burst from range and provide tools to deal with engages or apply pressure from range, rather than just spewing high numbers, and it's not going to be balanced or done well, because the very nature of the concept of a stealth-mobile-sniper can't be well-designed for what the thief is already. Rifle, as a sniper weapon in terms of general viability, is a

bad idea

when it comes to proper game design in terms of GW2. Even in PvE, there's no risk in kneeling when range in it of itself is so safe based on how aggro works etc.

If you take issue with that design concept, you should have been here earlier, objecting to the multitude of threads which popped up every single day asking for this concept to be implemented, or supporting my ES proposal which offered substantially better ranged killing potential without cheese if that was what you are/were after.

The entire concept of rifle in its overarching design is a gimmick and people need to accept that. It can't be "balanced" by design. It is not a PvE weapon.If you have other problems with other professions dealing too much damage... take it up with those other professions, not to keep infinitely powercreeping the thief.

Otherwise you're just complaining about the fact it isn't "GG-ez" OP with a low skill floor like Daredevil has.

Rangers still have the ability to move and they have a pet. Deadeye has nothing like that, he is a sitting duck, so one would expect a glasscannon. You cant even talk about burst damage since the highest hitting stuff is locked behind malice, using the 4 without it is pretty much worthless. Every single other ability deals less damage for more Initiative than other weapons (like pistols). The "range advantage" is pretty much negated through the "sitting duck" mechanic.Guildwars is also still a story driven game with lots of pve content, not a pvp focused one, so implementing a spec that is only decent in pvp is stupid. Every single weapons should be atleast decent in both modes, obviously there is always something that is "best", but in this case the rifle is worse than everything we had before...and that shouldnt be the case. Seriously, usually people say "dont use P/P, it deals not enough damage" now i read "dont use Rifle, use P/P instead"...sounds crazy right?Obviously a melee class should deal more damage than a ranged class, high risk high reward. But what did the devs say again in the Deadeye introduction? He is the only ranged class that deals as much damage as a melee class because he cant move? Nice, where can i get that spec?And its not even about powercreeping at all, take a look at the day one changes:

@"Karl McLain.5604" said:

• Three-Round-Burst (Kneeling): Reduced damage by about 16%

For the most part, it's just bug fixes. We did feel that there was a more negative push with Three-Round-Burst in that pressing Death's Judgement was a bad decision, so we ended up slightly lowering TRB's damage. We'll continue to keep an

eye

on this elite specialization, making changes and balance adjustments as necessary.

So basically "Deaths Judgement wasn strong enough, players used TRB instead, so we nerfed TRB into the abyss"

I just tested it, TRB deals around 5k damage (crit) for me. Meanwhile with the same build my Unload deals twice as much while i can still run around and recover Initiatve to spam it even more...and i dont even have damage sigils in my pistols! Oh and Deaths Judgement with 7 malice deals 15k crit while it takes several seconds before i can even reach that, usually i have exactly one use of it because i dont have Initiative anymore...where exactly is the burst damage again? oh yeah...on my pistols!

Yep. My P/P build destroys anything I can do with Rifle.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVnsMBlOhdPBeOBUGjFwCbLEtWGReBgDQDgPNGHvjA-jpxHQBA4QAMwjAw1KDoh9HI4DAghnAAA

thats what im using too now. tried to replace Trickery with Deadly Arts for a while, but i dont like that Mug breaks stealth, i also like the extra Initiative from Trickery more because that means more skills before i run dry.

[Gor.3460]

@symke.3105 said:I agree DE could do more damage and skills cold cost less initiative. I've tried it for a bit but found my results seriously lacking so I returned to my DD. After reading your thougths in this post I have to agree with many of them, but I do wonder: What are we prepared to sacrifice for an option to stay at 1500 range and "safely" shoot at targets? Is DE's focus on ST attacks this sacrifice?I find it very difficult to compare DD and DE. One has to stay in melee risking a lot, but does good AOE damage, the other stays far away, risking little, but has mostly ST attacks. Should they do comparable DPS?

I see that with right traits and rotation timing I deal satisfying damage to single targets and burst them down pretty quickly. Compared to DD - don't rly feel any difference in speed, so if its there, its negligible. Being melee doesn't make DD less safe, because he can escape any situation with ease, whereas on DE it could be troublesome. So you gotta be patient and tactical, and you'll have for yourself a nice gameplay with lots of options how to play, rather than spam 3 buttons.

[LazerusKI.7485]

@Gor.3460 said:

@symke.3105 said:I agree DE could do more damage and skills cold cost less initiative. I've tried it for a bit but found my results seriously lacking so I returned to my DD. After reading your thougths in this post I have to agree with many of them, but I do wonder: What are we prepared to sacrifice for an option to stay at 1500 range and "safely" shoot at targets? Is DE's focus on ST attacks this sacrifice?I find it very difficult to compare DD and DE. One has to stay in melee risking a lot, but does good AOE damage, the other stays far away, risking little, but has mostly ST attacks. Should they do comparable DPS?

I see that with right traits and rotation timing I deal satisfying damage to single targets and burst them down pretty quickly. Compared to DD - don't rly feel any difference in speed, so if its there, its negligible. Being melee doesn't make DD less safe, because he can escape any situation with ease, whereas on DE it could be troublesome. So you gotta be patient and tactical, and you'll have for yourself a nice gameplay with lots of options how to play, rather than spam 3 buttons.

the whole "stay far away, risking little" is wrong to begin with. its true for the ranger who has a pet that can tank for him, but not for the deadeye who has enemies in range in just a few seconds. you can hold off melees with the immobilize on 2, but remember that its only 1500 range and there are enough weapons and enemies with 1200+ range that can and will hit you, maybe even with fields that you have to avoid.

the main difference i felt when compared to P/P or D/D was that rifle runs out of energy fast while on P/P i can chain Unload basically forever, i dont have to stop, re-mark targets, or sit down, all while my killspeed if faster

[babazhook.6805]

When speaking to DE it important that rifle be seperated from the rest of the Spec. DE works well across all other weaponsets. Only limited tuning needed. Rifle requires a bit more attention. All traitlines syngerize very nicely with DE and allow a wide range of build types. So far I have found very fun and effective builds with s/p , s/d , pd and p/p. I have yet to try d/d or d/p although I am quite certain they can me made to work and made to work well. (d/d power next on my to do)

I am finding the SPEC itself is a lot of fun.

[Tringsh.2380]

@LazerusKI.7485 said:

the whole "stay far away, risking little" is wrong to begin with. its true for the ranger who has a pet that can tank for him, but not for the deadeye who has enemies in range in just a few seconds. you can hold off melees with the immobilize on 2, but remember that its only 1500 range and there are enough weapons and enemies with 1200+ range that can and will hit you, maybe even with fields that you have to avoid.

I totally agree with this, I've dropped DE for DD and I can close in on other DE's so damn fast it's unreal. Not only that but I can usually drop them in seconds due to them being prone. It's the same when going against other classes the risk vs reward just isn't there. I can't stealth up and mark someone to build some malice without them knowing either.

I feel like the devs have made this spec to look good on paper and work around a concept but the implementation doesn't marry up. You really hit the mark (excuse the pun) when you said the ranger has it's pet, the thief has been built for mobility and stealth as it's survival mechanic, rooting us in place works directly against that.

[babazhook.6805]

The "root in place" is just something people have to adapt to. While I still feel more needed on the Kneel (specifically more range and even fasrer projectiles) that kneel is not something one should do at every instance. It very much a time and place thing. It not something that will work overly well in a 1v1 when you are identified as the sole target. It more a who is the guy in that group I can single out mark at range and down from distance.

Now ideally when someone closes the DE with Rifle would do a Deaths retreat. The problem here is the skills used in such a matter still feel awkward and just consume too much INI. In addition to that range of 1800 , this why I feel the INI on both DR and DJ need lowering. You are having to pay for that kneel after a DR and it just too much to make the skill flow properly.(An aletrnative might be allowing endurance gain on DR as well)

[LazerusKI.7485]

@babazhook.6805 said:When speaking to DE it important that rifle be seperated from the rest of the Spec. DE works well across all other weaponsets. Only limited tuning needed. Rifle requires a bit more attention. All traitlines syngerize very nicely with DE and allow a wide range of build types. So far I have found very fun and effective builds with s/p , s/d , pd and p/p. I have yet to try d/d or d/p although I am quite certain they can me made to work and made to work well. (d/d power next on my to do)

I am finding the SPEC itself is a lot of fun.

true, the spec itself is great and synergizes well with other traits and weapons. its just the rifle that needs attention

[SkyShroud.2865]

i believe this is about pve?deadeye is strong in other modes

[kash.9213]

@LazerusKI.7485 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:When speaking to DE it important that rifle be seperated from the rest of the Spec. DE works well across all other weaponsets. Only limited tuning needed. Rifle requires a bit more attention. All traitlines syngerize very nicely with DE and allow a wide range of build types. So far I have found very fun and effective builds with s/p , s/d , pd and p/p. I have yet to try d/d or d/p although I am quite certain they can me made to work and made to work well. (d/d power next on my to do)

I am finding the SPEC itself is a lot of fun.

true, the spec itself is great and synergizes well with other traits and weapons. its just the rifle that needs attention

I get the other complaints about rifle on here but I can get by I think if rifle auto didn't feel like a slow wobbly Nerf gun bullet. Maybe have something that breaks up to similar damage but in three stages like pew, pew, pppewww so it at least feels like something is happening there. I'm fine with Kneel, just like getting in and out of crouch in most shooters. It feels like DE is supposed to encourage us to drop Trickery to mix other stuff like DA and SA but Trickery and DA together feels close to what I think rifle should be doing with sustained and burst damage. Any other combo makes me want to stay on melee set to kill stuff.

[Ashen.4061]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:i believe this is about pve?deadeye is strong in other modes

Rifle isn't. Also, what Deadeye specs are you talking about that are so strong in sPvP?

[KrHome.1920]

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:I want to go to a dummy and see the dps match a staff daredevil. I want to go to my raid with my rifle and not hold my group back.Rifle is is a ranged weapon. Staff is not.

These PvE'ers....

Kind of naive to expect a 1200 range (let's ignore the kneel mechanic at this point) weapon to be DPS competitive to melee weapons.

And it's not that you can't use any melee weapons with deadeye.

Focusing on burst was the only non-game-breaking thing Anet could do with the rifle. And they did a pretty good job.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:I want to go to a dummy and see the dps match a staff daredevil. I want to go to my raid with my rifle and not hold my group back.Rifle is is a ranged weapon. Staff is not.

These PvE'ers....

Kind of naive to expect a 1200 range (let's ignore the kneel mechanic at this point) weapon to be DPS competitive to melee weapons.

And it's not that you can't use any melee weapons with deadeye.

Focusing on burst was the only non-game-breaking thing Anet could do with the rifle. And they did a pretty good job.

No let's not ignore the kneel mechanic. The kneel mechanic was the entire reason they were able to deliver competitive damage. Well the damage isn't competitive. So yea, maybe it would be naive to expect a 1200 range weapon to be competitive with melee. When you take away that straw man and go back to the topic of a planted turret, the damage should at least be comparable to the stronger melee weapons like staff. And again... these pvers? This entire topic is about raid dps with rifle... If you're here to argue for the sake of a pvp mode it isn't welcome as it's off topic. I'm not saying I don't care about pvp balance. I personally feel they should be separate, but that's an entirely different subject. I as well as many others wanted rifle to be a competitive weapon for pve.. ok we get it... you disagree. We get it. Thanks for the input.

[LazerusKI.7485]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Zalavaaris.5329 said:I want to go to a dummy and see the dps match a staff daredevil. I want to go to my raid with my rifle and not hold my group back.Rifle is is a ranged weapon. Staff is not.

These PvE'ers....

Kind of naive to expect a 1200 range (let's ignore the kneel mechanic at this point) weapon to be DPS competitive to melee weapons.

And it's not that you can't use any melee weapons with deadeye.

Focusing on burst was the only non-game-breaking thing Anet could do with the rifle. And they did a pretty good job.

ignoring the kneel mechanic is like ignoring conditions on condition based classes, pets on rangers, elements on elementalist...its a core mechanic that was meant to give Deadeye damage like a melee class in trade for mobility (against a single target).

As some others allready tested, it fails at that point. It even fails against other ranged weapons, P/P has a far bigger burst in a shorter time, sure the range is shorter, but it rarely happens that you can shoot at 1500 anyway. not to mention that the gap is closed very fast and there are enough enemies that can attack at range too or force a kneeling deadeye to move away or die.Its not even about range vs melee, of course you can use melee as a deadeye, but that doesnt change the fact that the rifle is garbage when compared to literally every single other weapon.