warrior Healing Signet

[DragonFury.6243]

change it to heal when warrior hit a foe ICD 1 second and this change wont affect him in PVEand dont defend the Healing Signet unless you are one of those player that want to play in a competitive mode when you relay on a passive healing .

[DragonFury.6243]

and why i am no longer able to enter this discussion https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/37730/nerf-spellbreaker-yep-thats-right-you-heard-me-no-more-mesmer

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

@"DragonFury.6243" said:and why i am no longer able to enter this discussion https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/37730/nerf-spellbreaker-yep-thats-right-you-heard-me-no-more-mesmer

Its been deleted or moved.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@DragonFury.6243 said:change it to heal when warrior hit a foe ICD 1 second and this change wont affect him in PVE

So kiting the warrior nullifies their healing on top of already being an effective strategy? (In addition to poison obviously)Okay, but we will need more damage to punish the people who have to come in to melee us, a healing scaling on the signet so we heal for more when we hit, and a massively reduced block time on shield so people don't just range us down without us being able to heal.

dont defend the Healing Signet

omegalul

[witcher.3197]

Are we really complaining about HS in 2018..? It's trash n its own that much has been proved already, only works with the Defense line heal over time traits for which you do need to land important hits.

Don't forget that while other classes can have 90% poison uptime on them, cleansing right before heal will result in a full heal for them, while warrior will suffer the reduction for the entire 90% uptime of poison.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

dont defend the Healing Signet

omegalul

ok so you want to get healing while doing nothing

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

dont defend the Healing Signet

omegalul

ok so you want to get healing while doing nothing

Or you can address the response to your nerf suggestion instead of putting words in my mouth~I'm open to it being changed! But it'll have to remain viable. :u

[Aza.2105]

Nah healing signet is fine......its been nerfed plenty already. I wouldn't be surprised if they one day changed it to be like signet of courage. Aka a big heal every 10 secs instead of a small heal every sec lol.

[DragonFury.6243]

well that is what the warrior healing signet do .(healing while doing nothing)are warriors that lazy ?just work for your healing like every other class signet

[DragonFury.6243]

@witcher.3197 said:Are we really complaining about HS in 2018..? It's trash n its own that much has been proved already, only works with the Defense line heal over time traits for which you do need to land important hits.

Don't forget that while other classes can have 90% poison uptime on them, cleansing right before heal will result in a full heal for them, while warrior will suffer the reduction for the entire 90% uptime of poison.

its not trash if in 90% of all warrior buildsBTW i am ok with adrenal health because it need some skill to work but i am not ok with almost 400 hp per 1 sec for doing nothing

[witcher.3197]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@witcher.3197 said:Are we really complaining about HS in 2018..? It's trash n its own that much has been proved already, only works with the Defense line heal over time traits for which you do need to land important hits.

Don't forget that while other classes can have 90% poison uptime on them, cleansing right before heal will result in a full heal for them, while warrior will suffer the reduction for the entire 90% uptime of poison.

its not trash if in 90% of all warrior builds

It's the only viable warrior healing skill in pvp.. warrior was trash in pvp for the first few seasons in HoT which is why Anet basically added a second healing signet to Defense, HS on its own was nothing after the powercreep.

[Curennos.9307]

It only really shines when stacked with Adrenal Health. If you just dodge the burst skill/FC or bother to use poison somewhere then it's relatively weak. It's also not 'free'. Really now.

But if it really bothers you that much, perhaps you have enough experience with warrior to suggest a viable alternative? Making it when-the-warr-is-hit would likely push it out of the meta , since blocks/evades/FC all mean you're -not- getting hit.

As for the 'trash' thing. There's a smol difference between using something because it's the 'least worst' option and using something cuz it's the best. Glancing over the other heals available to warr, they all seem very, veeery lackluster.

Warr also isn't as spammy as, say, ele, which manages to get good value from their heal signet because they are pretty much always casting. Warr on the other hand has FC, blocks, longer/slower skills, etc.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Curennos.9307 said:It only really shines when stacked with Adrenal Health. If you just dodge the burst skill/FC or bother to use poison somewhere then it's relatively weak. It's also not 'free'. Really now.

But if it really bothers you that much, perhaps you have enough experience with warrior to suggest a viable alternative? Making it when-the-warr-is-hit would likely push it out of the meta , since blocks/evades/FC all mean you're -not- getting hit.

As for the 'trash' thing. There's a smol difference between using something because it's the 'least worst' option and using something cuz it's the best. Glancing over the other heals available to warr, they all seem very, veeery lackluster.

Warr also isn't as spammy as, say, ele, which manages to get good value from their heal signet because they are pretty much always casting. Warr on the other hand has FC, blocks, longer/slower skills, etc.

the problem is that the do nothing healing signet is out healing all other signet that actually require you to PLAYmay be only less than Signet of Restoration only on weaverthat does not seem rightand other healing skill for warrior is ok (9k heal with to the limit) and (heal+3 condi removed with mending) are just fine

[Curennos.9307]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@"Curennos.9307" said:It only really shines when stacked with Adrenal Health. If you just dodge the burst skill/FC or bother to use poison somewhere then it's relatively weak. It's also not 'free'. Really now.

But if it really bothers you that much, perhaps you have enough experience with warrior to suggest a viable alternative? Making it when-the-warr-is-hit would likely push it out of the meta , since blocks/evades/FC all mean you're -not- getting hit.

As for the 'trash' thing. There's a smol difference between using something because it's the 'least worst' option and using something cuz it's the best. Glancing over the other heals available to warr, they all seem very, veeery lackluster.

Warr also isn't as spammy as, say, ele, which manages to get good value from their heal signet because they are pretty much always casting. Warr on the other hand has FC, blocks, longer/slower skills, etc.

the problem is that the do nothing healing signet is out healing all other signet that actually require you to PLAYmay be only less than Signet of Restoration only on weaverthat does not seem rightand other healing skill for warrior is ok (9k heal with to the limit) and (heal+3 condi removed with mending) are just fine

Have you considered that the classes function in different ways, and a 344/sec heal signet may be appropriate for warrior but wouldn't be for weaver? Or that not all signets are equal because they all do something different? You just seem to be sprouting personal opinions and making no comparisons whatsoever/providing any support for your argument.

Take necro heal signet. It does less healing and does so on hit (though the trait buffs it to heal more per hit than warr signet), but has very nice group support on-use via the heal-when-target-struck mechanic, and both the passive (might be wrong here) and active (this I know to be true) versions do damage? It also has twice the on-use healing that HS does.

So yes, I suppose if you compare JUST the healing and take absolutely nothing else into consideration - like the entire rest of the class, perhaps - then HS is overperforming. But that's an absolutely nonsensical way to go about it. You can't compare things in a vacuum or with such heavy limitations on what is being compared. You could compare HS to JUST other warr heals, and in that it might actually look inferior, but it synergizes quite nicely with the Defense tree. And that's how metas come about. It's an optimization thing - it's not in a lot of warr builds cuz it's just absolutely amazing/OP/we on its own, it just happens to work very nicely for the most effective setup.

Okay, one more edit...Post kinda got away from me. YOu can't just keep repeating 'it's lazy! Blah!' yadda yadda, etc etc. It's not going to get you anywhere. You'd have a better start to this if you'd gone with

"The current iteration of Healing Signet may be balanced well enough against alternatives the available alternatives, but how it functions supports more passive gameplay in what is (supposed to be?) an action-y game. In order to encourage more decisionmaking and move away from an 'always on' or requiring no player involvement in its usage (****), I suggest making the signet only heal when struck, but significantly buff the heal when the warrior is struck. This would make the signet stronger if the opponent just tries to tunnel the warrior, and said warr will have superior/better sustain with the signet if their opponent doesn't switch between offense and defense at appropriate times/set up their burst properly in order to secure the kill. They could even have the signet heal for more if the warrior is struck while blocking/evades a skill, though that would require additional balancing."

Something like that. Also, the signet is not as passive as you may think - the resistance is very important, but getting the resistance buff requires giving up the heal :) It's a choice between a relatively weak heal, or giving up the heal to totally negate condis for 6 sec while you do other stuff.

[DragonFury.6243]

Have you considered that the classes function in different ways, and a 344/sec heal signet may be appropriate for warrior but wouldn't be for weaver? Or that not all signets are equal because they all do something different? You just seem to be sprouting personal opinions and making no comparisons whatsoever/providing any support for your argument.

Take necro heal signet. It does less healing and does so on hit (though the trait buffs it to heal more per hit than warr signet), but has very nice group support on-use via the heal-when-target-struck mechanic, and both the passive (might be wrong here) and active (this I know to be true) versions do damage? It also has twice the on-use healing that HS does.

So yes, I suppose if you compare JUST the healing and take absolutely nothing else into consideration - like the entire rest of the class, perhaps - then HS is overperforming. But that's an absolutely nonsensical way to go about it. You can't compare things in a vacuum or with such heavy limitations on what is being compared. You could compare HS to JUST other warr heals, and in that it might actually look inferior, but it synergizes quite nicely with the Defense tree. And that's how metas come about. It's an optimization thing - it's not in a lot of warr builds cuz it's just absolutely amazing/OP/we on its own, it just happens to work very nicely for the most effective setup.

well 334/sec heal is inappropriate for any class to haveassuming a fight last for 15 sec you will get 5k health witch is same as an average healing skill but its a guaranteed healingbut if you take any other healing skill that will make you susceptible to interrupt and counter play ( aka skill ensure that your enemy use all their interrupt before healing)all i am saying is encourage ACTIVE play rather than PASSIVE play

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Curennos.9307 said:Take necro heal signet. It does less healing and does so on hit (though the trait buffs it to heal more per hit than warr signet), but has very nice group support on-use via the heal-when-target-struck mechanic, and both the passive (might be wrong here) and active (this I know to be true) versions do damage? It also has twice the on-use healing that HS does.

Signet of Vampirism passive deals no damage. It only heals you when you are struck 1/second.

[Curennos.9307]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

Have you considered that the classes function in different ways, and a 344/sec heal signet may be appropriate for warrior but wouldn't be for weaver? Or that not all signets are equal because they all do something different? You just seem to be sprouting personal opinions and making no comparisons whatsoever/providing any support for your argument.

Take necro heal signet. It does less healing and does so on hit (though the trait buffs it to heal more per hit than warr signet), but has very nice group support on-use via the heal-when-target-struck mechanic, and both the passive (might be wrong here) and active (this I know to be true) versions do damage? It also has twice the on-use healing that HS does.

So yes, I suppose if you compare JUST the healing and take absolutely nothing else into consideration - like the entire rest of the class, perhaps - then HS is overperforming. But that's an absolutely nonsensical way to go about it. You can't compare things in a vacuum or with such heavy limitations on what is being compared. You could compare HS to JUST other warr heals, and in that it might actually look inferior, but it synergizes quite nicely with the Defense tree. And that's how metas come about. It's an optimization thing - it's not in a lot of warr builds cuz it's just absolutely amazing/OP/we on its own, it just happens to work very nicely for the most effective setup.

well 334/sec heal is inappropriate for any class to haveassuming a fight last for 15 sec you will get 5k health witch is same as an average healing skill but its a guaranteed healingbut if you take any other healing skill that will make you susceptible to interrupt and counter play ( aka skill ensure that your enemy use all their interrupt before healing)all i am saying is encourage ACTIVE play rather than PASSIVE play

Assuming your opponent has some semblance of competence, they've utilized poison and that 5k heal is now...what? 3.3k? Furthermore, the other warrior heal on a 15 sec CD heals for 6.1k and cleanses 3 condis. So...HS falls short there. It heals for more than the shout, but the shout restores endurance to the warr + group + adrenaline. Natural Healing is...tbh I think it's awful xD Natural Healing outheals HS but has other drawbacks (and benefits to balance out the drawbacks, though personally I would never use it).

Don't forget that the signet also has an active which is very important (and also susceptible to interrupts and the like). So HS can be countered twice over - both by interrupts if you try to cast it and by repeated poison application (warr doesn't have enough cleanse to casually just get rid of the poison).

You're missing the point of signets - that is, managing the passive bonus vs the active. The warr has to decide/gauge whether he's better off using the active effect (say he's expecting a condi bomb, or he's about to die and needs that measly 2.3k health) or making use of the passive heal for more sustain combined with adrenal health. Healing signet at least is far, FAR from as passive as you make it out to be. It most certainly is NOT free - he's giving up the on-use portion for the passive portion, or the other way around.

In short, your analysis of the skill is very much lacking in depth. You're focusing in on the heal/sec and ignoring literally everything else. Dun do that, else someone might come aong and point out that ele gets the signet on skill use + easy regen + the regen from water, which is a tad more than 344/sec and just as 'free' as HS, if not more so :)

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:Take necro heal signet. It does less healing and does so on hit (though the trait buffs it to heal more per hit than warr signet), but has very nice group support on-use via the heal-when-target-struck mechanic, and both the passive (might be wrong here) and active (this I know to be true) versions do damage? It also has twice the on-use healing that HS does.

Signet of Vampirism passive deals no damage. It only heals you when you are struck 1/second.

Ty, checked gw2skills but coulda sworn it had a passive damage component. 'ppreciated.

[DragonFury.6243]

@"Curennos.9307" said:

Okay, one more edit...Post kinda got away from me. YOu can't just keep repeating 'it's lazy! Blah!' yadda yadda, etc etc. It's not going to get you anywhere. You'd have a better start to this if you'd gone with

"The current iteration of Healing Signet may be balanced well enough against alternatives the available alternatives, but how it functions supports more passive gameplay in what is (supposed to be?) an action-y game. In order to encourage more decisionmaking and move away from an 'always on' or requiring no player involvement in its usage (****), I suggest making the signet only heal when struck, but significantly buff the heal when the warrior is struck. This would make the signet stronger if the opponent just tries to tunnel the warrior, and said warr will have superior/better sustain with the signet if their opponent doesn't switch between offense and defense at appropriate times/set up their burst properly in order to secure the kill. They could even have the signet heal for more if the warrior is struck while blocking/evades a skill, though that would require additional balancing."

Something like that. Also, the signet is not as passive as you may think - the resistance is very important, but getting the resistance buff requires giving up the heal :) It's a choice between a relatively weak heal, or giving up the heal to totally negate condis for 6 sec while you do other stuff.

i didn't represent it formally because i doubt AN will react to this post its more of a player to player disscusionand if warrior don't have condi on them they rather die than activate HS they will use the cast time to try disengage or dps

[nicknamenick.2437]

Mending does 434 hps. HS does 344 hps

So why even nerf it more..

[DragonFury.6243]

@nicknamenick.2437 said:Mending does 434 hps. HS does 344 hps

So why even nerf it more..

mending have counter play interrupt HS dont

[Curennos.9307]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@nicknamenick.2437 said:Mending does 434 hps. HS does 344 hps

So why even nerf it more..

mending have counter play interrupt HS dont

Psst, I'm still here. I shall not let you get away with this. HS does have counterplay in the form of poison + boonrip/poison/interrupt for the active.

[DragonFury.6243]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

Assuming your opponent has some semblance of competence, they've utilized poison and that 5k heal is now...what? 3.3k? Furthermore, the other warrior heal on a 15 sec CD heals for 6.1k and cleanses 3 condis. So...HS falls short there. It heals for more than the shout, but the shout restores endurance to the warr + group + adrenaline. Natural Healing is...tbh I think it's awful xD Natural Healing outheals HS but has other drawbacks (and benefits to balance out the drawbacks, though personally I would never use it).100% up time poison builds are rather rare plus warrior have other source of resistanceand the passive healing effect of HS can be abused with the block and 0 dmg taken and FC

[nicknamenick.2437]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@nicknamenick.2437 said:Mending does 434 hps. HS does 344 hps

So why even nerf it more..

mending have counter play interrupt HS dont

Yes thats why HS already does less healing compared to other warrior healing skills. So again why erf HS even more?

Just because you dont like passive? Some do like it. I prefer mending but HS is nice also.

Your idea would dubble nerf warrior..

Killing warriors is about kiting. And you want to kite there healing also? Not a good idea.Also warrior is slow and not a fast multihit ele

[nicknamenick.2437]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

Assuming your opponent has some semblance of competence, they've utilized poison and that 5k heal is now...what? 3.3k? Furthermore, the other warrior heal on a 15 sec CD heals for 6.1k and cleanses 3 condis. So...HS falls short there. It heals for more than the shout, but the shout restores endurance to the warr + group + adrenaline. Natural Healing is...tbh I think it's awful xD Natural Healing outheals HS but has other drawbacks (and benefits to balance out the drawbacks, though personally I would never use it).100% up time poison builds are rather rare plus warrior have other source of resistanceand the passive healing effect of HS can be abused with the block and 0 dmg taken and

Rangers go into stealth > pop trolls urgent..Gets health

What your gonna do about it?

Other classes can go stealth or blink away to get a save heal also..

Your forgetting that warrior is not the same as ... class

[Curennos.9307]

@DragonFury.6243 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@DragonFury.6243 said:

Assuming your opponent has some semblance of competence, they've utilized poison and that 5k heal is now...what? 3.3k? Furthermore, the other warrior heal on a 15 sec CD heals for 6.1k and cleanses 3 condis. So...HS falls short there. It heals for more than the shout, but the shout restores endurance to the warr + group + adrenaline. Natural Healing is...tbh I think it's awful xD Natural Healing outheals HS but has other drawbacks (and benefits to balance out the drawbacks, though personally I would never use it).100% up time poison builds are rather rare plus warrior have other source of resistanceand the passive healing effect of HS can be abused with the block and 0 dmg taken and FC

You don't need 100% poison uptime. Just because you cannot do something 100% doesn't mean it's totally worthless or ineffective. Poison still works. As for other sources of res, it seems I must be the first to inform you that warrior has other skills and buttons to press that do other things. Sometimes similar things. Opponents also have other sources of boonrip. Your point is...?

Unblockables also exist. There's a difference between abuse and 'this is how something in the game functions'.

Block lasts 3 sec according to gw2skills. Oh no. Your opponent will have gained a grand total of 1032 health, about the damage of one auto attack. They also can't do anything else while blocking and condis will continue to tick (you might have even applied poison to them before they started blocking).