Balance the scourge now, not when next expansion comes

[Lenneth.7642]

Scourge shade skill shouldn't pulse on Scourge when sand shade is placed.Add a skill to call back all placed shroud back to scourge (maybe to replace F2 skill while retain it's benefits to remove condi).

[jdallen.5179]

I just spent several hours playing in a T1 match - SoS, StormBluff & Blackgate - and I watched zergs with decent commanders getting erased by "Scourge Spam". I tend to play a support guardian in zerg - I'm not a top end PvP player, but I do well with and providing support - configured for applying boons, heals and stripping conditions. Dealing with massed scourges I cannot keep up with it - I'm typically the last downed, but I simply can't take conditions off of people fast enough, or heal them enough to keep up.

When my guild havocs and we deal with groups, even 5v2 (us vs a scourge and one other) we need to play carefully - if we get bunched up or let them get too close, they'll take us down. By contrast, dealing with groups the same size and similar composition, our success rate is more like 50-50, which is what I'd expect.

This isn't newbs shedding tears - this is a serious imbalance. The only effective in-game counter to a blob of scourges is a similarly sized group of about the same composition. Power based ranged classes do not have enough range advantage to counter it - I gave my ranger a power-based build (2500+ power, 200%+ Ferocity, 50+% crit chance) to try exactly that and haven't found it effective yet, though the build is very fun to play.

Watching it play out, when dealing with large squads of scourges, other classes simply do not have enough synergy to counter to AOE/Conditions/Boon strip/Boon conversion spam they have, even when those other classes are well played. There's no finesse, no alternate strategy available to commanders to counter them with groups containing different combinations of classes. Outcomes are brute force affairs with victory pretty much based on one characteristic - which side has the most scourges.

[Roxanne.6140]

scourge really doesn't need anymore nerfs, other classes are already starting to outshine it

[Spurnshadow.3678]

The biggest flaw in the scourge is that it acts as a shade. That alone doubles the dps/support aspect. These skills are able to fire off with little cool down. No other class can effect 10 allies/enemies that much. There are only a handful of other skills in the game that effect 10 allies/ememies. WoD has a long CD. A druid healing skill, some rev skill that no one uses. Most of those only effect either allies or enemies, not both, whereas shades usually do something to both allies and enemies.Get rid of that aspect and you can actually get close to balancing again.

[apharma.3741]

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

[X T D.6458]

@apharma.3741 said:

@"X T D.6458" said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

Now you know that's not going to happen. As much as I miss the old pre-stability nerf days, there is no point in wishing for it to return. I try to learn and adapt and keep playing.

Scourge is a necessary evil in WvW because it serves a purpose, it counters the natural desire every group has to be carried by boons and try to one push everyone.

A lot of the complaints I read about Scourge come from people who clearly do not understand the mechanics or counters. I don't go out and say "git gud" or "l2p" but some people seem more consumed with complaining rather then actually trying to learn.

[jaif.3518]

@MadBomber.3719 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:Fb, sb and scourge are all super over represented right now.

tbf GWEN comps were always the most represented classes in WvW zerging. not that scourge isn't broken just that it's always been dominant in representation

So 4 of the 8 classes (no rev at the time) for zergs. Thieves, Mesmers, and Rangers roamed, with some warriors as well. One or two mesmers per zerg. Engineers were pointless. Various odd-ball roamers used by skilled players (burn guard, d/d ele, etc).

It actually wasn't bad. I'd love to see every class have a good zerg role, but honestly, it wasn't bad at the start. Now? Like the picture says, 50%+scourges, and honestly, the more the better.

-Jeff

[X T D.6458]

@jaif.3518 said:

@MadBomber.3719 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:Fb, sb and scourge are all super over represented right now.

tbf GWEN comps were always the most represented classes in WvW zerging. not that scourge isn't broken just that it's always been dominant in representation

So 4 of the 8 classes (no rev at the time) for zergs. Thieves, Mesmers, and Rangers roamed, with some warriors as well. One or two mesmers per zerg. Engineers were pointless. Various odd-ball roamers used by skilled players (burn guard, d/d ele, etc).

It actually wasn't bad. I'd love to see every class have a good zerg role, but honestly, it wasn't bad at the start. Now? Like the picture says, 50%+scourges, and honestly, the more the better.

-Jeff

Every class is different, and not every one can be optimal for each gamemode and type of playstyle because they require different things. One class might be bad for zerging, but will excel at roaming/dueling. The meta shifts over time have created a need for more aoe ranged damage, and more support builds. Therefore certain classes will be left out because they either dont perform these roles, or are outshined by other classes.

Necro has essentially remained the same in its purpose in WvW.

[Roxanne.6140]

@X T D.6458 said:

@jaif.3518 said:

@MadBomber.3719 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:Fb, sb and scourge are all super over represented right now.

tbf GWEN comps were always the most represented classes in WvW zerging. not that scourge isn't broken just that it's always been dominant in representation

So 4 of the 8 classes (no rev at the time) for zergs. Thieves, Mesmers, and Rangers roamed, with some warriors as well. One or two mesmers per zerg. Engineers were pointless. Various odd-ball roamers used by skilled players (burn guard, d/d ele, etc).

It actually wasn't bad. I'd love to see every class have a good zerg role, but honestly, it wasn't bad at the start. Now? Like the picture says, 50%+scourges, and honestly, the more the better.

-Jeff

Every class is different, and not every one can be optimal for each gamemode and type of playstyle because they require different things. One class might be bad for zerging, but will excel at roaming/dueling. The meta shifts over time have created a need for more aoe ranged damage, and more support builds. Therefore certain classes will be left out because they either dont perform these roles, or are outshined by other classes.

Necro has essentially remained the same in its purpose in WvW.

Oh you mean the healing stuff going on? And how other classes like damage heralds and weavers

[apharma.3741]

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

Now you know that's not going to happen. As much as I miss the old pre-stability nerf days, there is no point in wishing for it to return. I try to learn and adapt and keep playing.

Scourge is a necessary evil in WvW because it serves a purpose, it counters the natural desire every group has to be carried by boons and try to one push everyone.

A lot of the complaints I read about Scourge come from people who clearly do not understand the mechanics or counters. I don't go out and say "git gud" or "l2p" but some people seem more consumed with complaining rather then actually trying to learn.

Just like there will soon be no point wishing for players to return to GW2 if ANet keep on this path of power creep and spamfiesta.

As for not understanding the mechanics I think a very large part of it is that the mechanics themselves aren’t exactly well distinguised, how do I tell the fear from the first pulse of the desert shroud or the F2? Alone a scourge can be an easy kill, supported it’s annoying without ranged damage which not every class is fortunate to have like sword weaver.

[Rezzet.3614]

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

Now you know that's not going to happen. As much as I miss the old pre-stability nerf days, there is no point in wishing for it to return. I try to learn and adapt and keep playing.

Scourge is a necessary evil in WvW because it serves a purpose, it counters the natural desire every group has to be carried by boons and try to one push everyone.

A lot of the complaints I read about Scourge come from people who clearly do not understand the mechanics or counters. I don't go out and say "git gud" or "l2p" but some people seem more consumed with complaining rather then actually trying to learn.

then make the scourge a support only profession and remove its damage , right now its broken because it spams 720 radius, Fear,corrupt,Barrier,cleanse COnditions,Power damage all with no cast time, scourge rright now is playing every role at once right now and made all professions except firebrand obsolete , the aoe spam makes melee suicide, the barrier spam makes ranged attacks useless (not to mention venom corruption wich destroys projectiles) , there is simply no approaching scourge zergs , so far i have seen 6 dedicated scourge only guilds in wvw its disgusting

[X T D.6458]

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

Now you know that's not going to happen. As much as I miss the old pre-stability nerf days, there is no point in wishing for it to return. I try to learn and adapt and keep playing.

Scourge is a necessary evil in WvW because it serves a purpose, it counters the natural desire every group has to be carried by boons and try to one push everyone.

A lot of the complaints I read about Scourge come from people who clearly do not understand the mechanics or counters. I don't go out and say "git gud" or "l2p" but some people seem more consumed with complaining rather then actually trying to learn.

then make the scourge a support only profession and remove its damage , right now its broken because it spams 720 radius, Fear,corrupt,Barrier,cleanse COnditions,Power damage all with no cast time, scourge rright now is playing every role at once right now and made all professions except firebrand obsolete , the aoe spam makes melee suicide, the barrier spam makes ranged attacks useless (not to mention venom corruption wich destroys projectiles) , there is simply no approaching scourge zergs , so far i have seen 6 dedicated scourge only guilds in wvw its disgusting

Couple of things here...you can see big red circles that tell you there is a shade placed by an enemy and when that circle starts collapsing on itself it means shade skills are being used. The larger radius, cleanses, and extra barriers all have to be traited, they are not automatically enabled with the spec.

Like I have repeated over and over, Scourge is there to counter melee boonspam groups. Firebrand and Mesmer counter Scourge, If a group does not understand that timing, positioning, and proper comps are key to countering Scourges then they deserve to get farmed. There are too many players that get carried by boons, and get arrogant enough to think they can one push every group they encounter.

People will always use what is most effective, if its not Scourge its going to be something else and people will find a way to maximize its effectiveness. Metas shift over time, either learn to adapt, or continue complaining.

[X T D.6458]

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

Now you know that's not going to happen. As much as I miss the old pre-stability nerf days, there is no point in wishing for it to return. I try to learn and adapt and keep playing.

Scourge is a necessary evil in WvW because it serves a purpose, it counters the natural desire every group has to be carried by boons and try to one push everyone.

A lot of the complaints I read about Scourge come from people who clearly do not understand the mechanics or counters. I don't go out and say "git gud" or "l2p" but some people seem more consumed with complaining rather then actually trying to learn.

Just like there will soon be no point wishing for players to return to GW2 if ANet keep on this path of power creep and spamfiesta.

As for not understanding the mechanics I think a very large part of it is that the mechanics themselves aren’t exactly well distinguised, how do I tell the fear from the first pulse of the desert shroud or the F2? Alone a scourge can be an easy kill, supported it’s annoying without ranged damage which not every class is fortunate to have like sword weaver.

Any class can counter Scourge, it doesn't rely on something like stealth which only few classes have access to any counter skills. If less people would stop relying on boons to carry them and actually tried to play smarter, they wouldn't have such problems.

As far as skills go, the f2/3/4 skills dont do damage on their own, it relies on the shade/Scourge' proximity to the target. If you stand lets say 600 range away from me and I use a shade skill without using manifest sand shade, it wont do any damage to you. People seem to forget that Scourge loses access to Shroud which is the Necro's second life bar, the ability to quickly access your shade skills is important to keep you alive. The f2-5 skills are important for damage and sustain and are all reliant on life force, which is also why Manifest Sand Shade uses the ammo system to function kind of like an auto attack.

[Coldtart.4785]

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge is there to counter melee boonspam groups.

X is a counter to Y gets said a lot when people are calling things overtuned and the question that always seems to go unasked is 'why does Y need a counter?' A lot of range players like to pretend that melee having reliable boons makes them invincible but it doesn't. Are boon sources overtuned right now? Probably, but so is boon removal and each one can 'justify' the other. The real solution is to nerf both of them and stop power creeping forever. The highest levels of play I've seen in the current meta are utterly brainless spamfests compared to when I used to gvg in vanilla and it kills my interest in the game when it's so absurdly easy to play.

[X T D.6458]

@Coldtart.4785 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge is there to counter melee boonspam groups.

X is a counter to Y gets said a lot when people are calling things overtuned and the question that always seems to go unasked is 'why does Y need a counter?' A lot of range players like to pretend that melee having reliable boons makes them invincible but it doesn't. Are boon sources overtuned right now? Probably, but so is boon removal and each one can 'justify' the other. The real solution is to nerf both of them and stop power creeping forever. The highest levels of play I've seen in the current meta are utterly brainless spamfests compared to when I used to gvg in vanilla and it kills my interest in the game when it's so absurdly easy to play.

Boon corrupt is not the only thing Scourge does, it is there to enforce area control through ranged pressure to make it harder for such groups to just stand in one spot spamming boons on themselves and being unkillable. Boon spam is a lot more prevalent than boon corruption, for one thing you cant control what boons you remove. Boon spam has been a huge problem since HoT and I wasn't the only one complaining about that godawful meta either.

I like seeing this focus on balancing around counterplay. Is it any less brainless than seeing 2 groups ball up and spam boons on each other with no way to counter it?

[Sovereign.1093]

just remove the lag inducing light show.

[RedShark.9548]

@MUDse.7623 said:as a mainly thief and roamer i think scourge is super weak, still wonder why i run into so many of them while roaming. they become annoying if they got a babysitter because downstate + rez trait is a little OP when you outnumber your opponent, but thats for any class.they got low chance to win a fight while roaming so i am ok with them dealing half as much damage as my ele in a zerg fight, while stripping boons to boost my damage.

the scourges you encounter alone are mist likeley zerg player that are either running to their zerg or just currently have no zerg available and dont know which other class to play in wvwthief has enough mobility to get in and out vefore the scourge can apply his condis and thus wins by kitinganyways if you read the post youd know its not about roaming the op was talking about, its about zerging and i want to see you killing scourges in a zerg.im a roamer myself but i dont think anyone gives a kitten about balancing thise smallscale fights, zergs impact alot more ppl than roaming and this should be balanced. nobody cares that you as a thief can easily kill a single scourge. they are a problem for zergfights and thats what they should be balanced for, not for roaming.

[Rezzet.3614]

@X T D.6458 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

Now you know that's not going to happen. As much as I miss the old pre-stability nerf days, there is no point in wishing for it to return. I try to learn and adapt and keep playing.

Scourge is a necessary evil in WvW because it serves a purpose, it counters the natural desire every group has to be carried by boons and try to one push everyone.

A lot of the complaints I read about Scourge come from people who clearly do not understand the mechanics or counters. I don't go out and say "git gud" or "l2p" but some people seem more consumed with complaining rather then actually trying to learn.

then make the scourge a support only profession and remove its damage , right now its broken because it spams 720 radius, Fear,corrupt,Barrier,cleanse COnditions,Power damage all with no cast time, scourge rright now is playing every role at once right now and made all professions except firebrand obsolete , the aoe spam makes melee suicide, the barrier spam makes ranged attacks useless (not to mention venom corruption wich destroys projectiles) , there is simply no approaching scourge zergs , so far i have seen 6 dedicated scourge only guilds in wvw its disgusting

Couple of things here...you can see big red circles that tell you there is a shade placed by an enemy and when that circle starts collapsing on itself it means shade skills are being used. The larger radius, cleanses, and extra barriers all have to be traited, they are not automatically enabled with the spec.

Like I have repeated over and over, Scourge is there to counter melee boonspam groups. Firebrand and Mesmer counter Scourge, If a group does not understand that timing, positioning, and proper comps are key to countering Scourges then they deserve to get farmed. There are too many players that get carried by boons, and get arrogant enough to think they can one push every group they encounter.

People will always use what is most effective, if its not Scourge its going to be something else and people will find a way to maximize its effectiveness. Metas shift over time, either learn to adapt, or continue complaining.

there is no counterplay to scourge zergs, got sick of it so i went and tried the profession myself it takes No skill whatsoever to play scourge even less on mass , enemies used blocks? use unblockable marks and wells, enemies use boons? corrupt them, enemies fighting back make your allies immortal via condi and barrier spam , you are a bandwagoner liar if you think scourge is only threatening Boon spamming Warriors ,also you speak as if scourges cant cast while moving when they clearly stampede dumping red circles of death

also Boy do i ever see the gosh darned red circles im swimming in them thanks to scourge guilds :

https://i.imgur.com/5GrDcFX.png

[apharma.3741]

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

Now you know that's not going to happen. As much as I miss the old pre-stability nerf days, there is no point in wishing for it to return. I try to learn and adapt and keep playing.

Scourge is a necessary evil in WvW because it serves a purpose, it counters the natural desire every group has to be carried by boons and try to one push everyone.

A lot of the complaints I read about Scourge come from people who clearly do not understand the mechanics or counters. I don't go out and say "git gud" or "l2p" but some people seem more consumed with complaining rather then actually trying to learn.

Just like there will soon be no point wishing for players to return to GW2 if ANet keep on this path of power creep and spamfiesta.

As for not understanding the mechanics I think a very large part of it is that the mechanics themselves aren’t exactly well distinguised, how do I tell the fear from the first pulse of the desert shroud or the F2? Alone a scourge can be an easy kill, supported it’s annoying without ranged damage which not every class is fortunate to have like sword weaver.

Any class can counter Scourge, it doesn't rely on something like stealth which only few classes have access to any counter skills. If less people would stop relying on boons to carry them and actually tried to play smarter, they wouldn't have such problems.

As far as skills go, the f2/3/4 skills dont do damage on their own, it relies on the shade/Scourge' proximity to the target. If you stand lets say 600 range away from me and I use a shade skill without using manifest sand shade, it wont do any damage to you. People seem to forget that Scourge loses access to Shroud which is the Necro's second life bar, the ability to quickly access your shade skills is important to keep you alive. The f2-5 skills are important for damage and sustain and are all reliant on life force, which is also why Manifest Sand Shade uses the ammo system to function kind of like an auto attack.

Lol well I assume a player is at least smart enough to realise they need a shade on you for shade skills to hit, seriously what kind of argument is that? It’s like saying CoR doesn’t one shot you if the rev doesn’t equip a hammer.

[Roxanne.6140]

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

Now you know that's not going to happen. As much as I miss the old pre-stability nerf days, there is no point in wishing for it to return. I try to learn and adapt and keep playing.

Scourge is a necessary evil in WvW because it serves a purpose, it counters the natural desire every group has to be carried by boons and try to one push everyone.

A lot of the complaints I read about Scourge come from people who clearly do not understand the mechanics or counters. I don't go out and say "git gud" or "l2p" but some people seem more consumed with complaining rather then actually trying to learn.

Just like there will soon be no point wishing for players to return to GW2 if ANet keep on this path of power creep and spamfiesta.

As for not understanding the mechanics I think a very large part of it is that the mechanics themselves aren’t exactly well distinguised, how do I tell the fear from the first pulse of the desert shroud or the F2? Alone a scourge can be an easy kill, supported it’s annoying without ranged damage which not every class is fortunate to have like sword weaver.

Any class can counter Scourge, it doesn't rely on something like stealth which only few classes have access to any counter skills. If less people would stop relying on boons to carry them and actually tried to play smarter, they wouldn't have such problems.

As far as skills go, the f2/3/4 skills dont do damage on their own, it relies on the shade/Scourge' proximity to the target. If you stand lets say 600 range away from me and I use a shade skill without using manifest sand shade, it wont do any damage to you. People seem to forget that Scourge loses access to Shroud which is the Necro's second life bar, the ability to quickly access your shade skills is important to keep you alive. The f2-5 skills are important for damage and sustain and are all reliant on life force, which is also why Manifest Sand Shade uses the ammo system to function kind of like an auto attack.

Lol well I assume a player is at least smart enough to realise they need a shade on you for shade skills to hit, seriously what kind of argument is that? It’s like saying CoR doesn’t one shot you if the rev doesn’t equip a hammer.

I'm going to pretend you didn't assume that equipping a hammer is different from laying a shade first before casting the shade skills due to the very obvious cast time needed and the extra step. Unless you are one of the special few who has something non-hammer equipped all the time and only equip hammer right before casting hammer skills. I don't think weapon swap is comparable to having to cast shade before the rest of the skills.

There's only one other class who faced so much rubbish on a forum and that class is nearly nowhere in sight in wvw.

[Ragnarox.9601]

scourge aoe is too strong...make them 240 radius and you will see the difference.

[Roxanne.6140]

@Ragnarox.9601 said:scourge aoe is too strong...make them 240 radius and you will see the difference.

Only if you give scourge the same survival skills as your loved firebrand/warrior classes as I see you love to play. Maybe more defiant stances, stability, block skills etc. Then perhaps we truly know the role that the devs want scourge to play. I'm curious what the description for each class is like in wvw, like is there an intended role somewhere?

[apharma.3741]

@Roxanne.6140 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

Now you know that's not going to happen. As much as I miss the old pre-stability nerf days, there is no point in wishing for it to return. I try to learn and adapt and keep playing.

Scourge is a necessary evil in WvW because it serves a purpose, it counters the natural desire every group has to be carried by boons and try to one push everyone.

A lot of the complaints I read about Scourge come from people who clearly do not understand the mechanics or counters. I don't go out and say "git gud" or "l2p" but some people seem more consumed with complaining rather then actually trying to learn.

Just like there will soon be no point wishing for players to return to GW2 if ANet keep on this path of power creep and spamfiesta.

As for not understanding the mechanics I think a very large part of it is that the mechanics themselves aren’t exactly well distinguised, how do I tell the fear from the first pulse of the desert shroud or the F2? Alone a scourge can be an easy kill, supported it’s annoying without ranged damage which not every class is fortunate to have like sword weaver.

Any class can counter Scourge, it doesn't rely on something like stealth which only few classes have access to any counter skills. If less people would stop relying on boons to carry them and actually tried to play smarter, they wouldn't have such problems.

As far as skills go, the f2/3/4 skills dont do damage on their own, it relies on the shade/Scourge' proximity to the target. If you stand lets say 600 range away from me and I use a shade skill without using manifest sand shade, it wont do any damage to you. People seem to forget that Scourge loses access to Shroud which is the Necro's second life bar, the ability to quickly access your shade skills is important to keep you alive. The f2-5 skills are important for damage and sustain and are all reliant on life force, which is also why Manifest Sand Shade uses the ammo system to function kind of like an auto attack.

Lol well I assume a player is at least smart enough to realise they need a shade on you for shade skills to hit, seriously what kind of argument is that? It’s like saying CoR doesn’t one shot you if the rev doesn’t equip a hammer.

I'm going to pretend you didn't assume that equipping a hammer is different from laying a shade first before casting the shade skills due to the very obvious cast time needed and the extra step. Unless you are one of the special few who has something non-hammer equipped all the time and only equip hammer right before casting hammer skills. I don't think weapon swap is comparable to having to cast shade before the rest of the skills.

There's only one other class who faced so much rubbish on a forum and that class is nearly nowhere in sight in wvw.

It’s the same level of silly arguement, that’s the point. When shades themselves cannot be traited to apply conditions and corrupt boons then it may possibly be an arguement that they need to be cast first but when that cast comes with such a large benefit already it’s becomes almost a moot point. Hence the hammer rev analogy, that the hammer itself is being the only ranged option so equipping it to use is a moot point as there’s no downside to it unless in small scale.

[Ragnarox.9601]

@Roxanne.6140 said:

@Ragnarox.9601 said:scourge aoe is too strong...make them 240 radius and you will see the difference.

Only if you give scourge the same survival skills as your loved firebrand/warrior classes as I see you love to play. Maybe more defiant stances, stability, block skills etc. Then perhaps we truly know the role that the devs want scourge to play. I'm curious what the description for each class is like in wvw, like is there an intended role somewhere?

srry but currently scourges are too easy to play in groups,cause of huge aoe pulsing fields, ppl are abusing them for that, and yes, scourge is even strong in 1v1 situation with their aoes and condi dmg. I am up for some def skills buffs if they give them proper nerf damage/condi wise.

[Roxanne.6140]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Roxanne.6140 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

Here’s an idea, let’s go back to pre specialisation where boon (and skill) spam wasn’t as big an issue, ofc with current stab not the no ICD CC removal stab we had that made for pirate ships.

Now you know that's not going to happen. As much as I miss the old pre-stability nerf days, there is no point in wishing for it to return. I try to learn and adapt and keep playing.

Scourge is a necessary evil in WvW because it serves a purpose, it counters the natural desire every group has to be carried by boons and try to one push everyone.

A lot of the complaints I read about Scourge come from people who clearly do not understand the mechanics or counters. I don't go out and say "git gud" or "l2p" but some people seem more consumed with complaining rather then actually trying to learn.

Just like there will soon be no point wishing for players to return to GW2 if ANet keep on this path of power creep and spamfiesta.

As for not understanding the mechanics I think a very large part of it is that the mechanics themselves aren’t exactly well distinguised, how do I tell the fear from the first pulse of the desert shroud or the F2? Alone a scourge can be an easy kill, supported it’s annoying without ranged damage which not every class is fortunate to have like sword weaver.

Any class can counter Scourge, it doesn't rely on something like stealth which only few classes have access to any counter skills. If less people would stop relying on boons to carry them and actually tried to play smarter, they wouldn't have such problems.

As far as skills go, the f2/3/4 skills dont do damage on their own, it relies on the shade/Scourge' proximity to the target. If you stand lets say 600 range away from me and I use a shade skill without using manifest sand shade, it wont do any damage to you. People seem to forget that Scourge loses access to Shroud which is the Necro's second life bar, the ability to quickly access your shade skills is important to keep you alive. The f2-5 skills are important for damage and sustain and are all reliant on life force, which is also why Manifest Sand Shade uses the ammo system to function kind of like an auto attack.

Lol well I assume a player is at least smart enough to realise they need a shade on you for shade skills to hit, seriously what kind of argument is that? It’s like saying CoR doesn’t one shot you if the rev doesn’t equip a hammer.

I'm going to pretend you didn't assume that equipping a hammer is different from laying a shade first before casting the shade skills due to the very obvious cast time needed and the extra step. Unless you are one of the special few who has something non-hammer equipped all the time and only equip hammer right before casting hammer skills. I don't think weapon swap is comparable to having to cast shade before the rest of the skills.

There's only one other class who faced so much rubbish on a forum and that class is nearly nowhere in sight in wvw.

It’s the same level of silly arguement, that’s the point. When shades themselves cannot be traited to apply conditions and corrupt boons then it may possibly be an arguement that they need to be cast first but when that cast comes with such a large benefit already it’s becomes almost a moot point. Hence the hammer rev analogy, that the hammer itself is being the only ranged option so equipping it to use is a moot point as there’s no downside to it unless in small scale.

lol, in order for hammer and shade to be compared, make all damage and conditions be obtainable upon laying down the shade. I don't see why hammer needs to be brought in at all, do you always equip and unequip hammer in the midst of battle? just curious.