Balance the scourge now, not when next expansion comes

[Jski.6180]

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

But its moving back to that meta its just barrier that replacing the boons and now more so that resistance becomes chill now. Scourge is in effect a worst version of the boon ball meta at least during the old boon meta you could still die as boons do not stop you from taking dmg but barrier dose.

[Dralor.3701]

They will do what they do I guess but be prepared for the sb hammertrain meta if they gut scourge.

[Rezzet.3614]

solo scourges are fairly balanced but in groups or in a guild made solely of scourges its another tale, scourge has hybrid damage , ontop of that has alot of support , scourge hardcounters melee and in groups thanks to a corruption they can also make whole zones anti projectile too wich leaves the options for fighting back against scourge groups to professions with non projectile ranged attacks or simply having even more scourges , right now scourge does Everything, Tank,Offense,Support, lets not forget shades cleanse and can apply 1k (if you choose barrier upon summon shade trait over corruption)+2k+5k barrier

[morrolan.9608]

@Hanth.2978 said:Scourge is fine and anet has done a great job with balancing them out over the months. Remember how strong they were 6 months ago? how about 3 months ago? Yeah they been getting nerfed since then constantly and rightly so. Anet has bigger problems right now, like making ALL classes viable in raids and make them feel just as important as others with a role to fill.

A class that is still 70% of a squads composition is fine? This is the WvW forum we don't care about raid balance. It is beyond unfathomable that scourges were left untouched for WvW in the recent balance patch.

[Sovereign.1093]

boon groups are in.l because resist to chill replaced imob. necros are needed more than ever now.

i run a boon comp. we rarely get killed now. you on t2 can vouch on this. if you dont got scourge, you aint gonna stop my zerg.

and we run only 1 scourge per party, lile 1 fb in a party

[Arheundel.6451]

@Sovereign.1093 said:boon groups are in.l because resist to chill replaced imob. necros are needed more than ever now.

i run a boon comp. we rarely get killed now. you on t2 can vouch on this. if you dont got scourge, you aint gonna stop my zerg.

and we run only 1 scourge per party, lile 1 fb in a party

@Sovereign.1093 said:boon groups are in.l because resist to chill replaced imob. necros are needed more than ever now.

i run a boon comp. we rarely get killed now. you on t2 can vouch on this. if you dont got scourge, you aint gonna stop my zerg.

and we run only 1 scourge per party, lile 1 fb in a party

Boon comp?...Since HoT all the dmg has been provided by necros, first with reapers and now with scourges if that wouldn't be the case a simple full zerk blob with some healing would run you over

[Sovereign.1093]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:boon groups are in.l because resist to chill replaced imob. necros are needed more than ever now.

i run a boon comp. we rarely get killed now. you on t2 can vouch on this. if you dont got scourge, you aint gonna stop my zerg.

and we run only 1 scourge per party, lile 1 fb in a party

@Sovereign.1093 said:boon groups are in.l because resist to chill replaced imob. necros are needed more than ever now.

i run a boon comp. we rarely get killed now. you on t2 can vouch on this. if you dont got scourge, you aint gonna stop my zerg.

and we run only 1 scourge per party, lile 1 fb in a party

Boon comp?...Since HoT all the dmg has been provided by necros, first with reapers and now with scourges if that wouldn't be the case a simple full zerk blob with some healing would run you over

=) and yet we do the running over.

and we do have 1 scourge per party.

i think ppl underestimate positioning.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Sovereign.1093 said:boon groups are in.l because resist to chill replaced imob. necros are needed more than ever now.

i run a boon comp. we rarely get killed now. you on t2 can vouch on this. if you dont got scourge, you aint gonna stop my zerg.

and we run only 1 scourge per party, lile 1 fb in a party

Boon comp?...Since HoT all the dmg has been provided by necros, first with reapers and now with scourges if that wouldn't be the case a simple full zerk blob with some healing would run you over

=) and yet we do the running over.

and we do have 1 scourge per party.

i think ppl underestimate positioning.

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:boon groups are in.l because resist to chill replaced imob. necros are needed more than ever now.

i run a boon comp. we rarely get killed now. you on t2 can vouch on this. if you dont got scourge, you aint gonna stop my zerg.

and we run only 1 scourge per party, lile 1 fb in a party

@Sovereign.1093 said:boon groups are in.l because resist to chill replaced imob. necros are needed more than ever now.

i run a boon comp. we rarely get killed now. you on t2 can vouch on this. if you dont got scourge, you aint gonna stop my zerg.

and we run only 1 scourge per party, lile 1 fb in a party

Boon comp?...Since HoT all the dmg has been provided by necros, first with reapers and now with scourges if that wouldn't be the case a simple full zerk blob with some healing would run you over

=) and yet we do the running over.

and we do have 1 scourge per party.

i think ppl underestimate positioning.

That's the whole point : the scourges have increased target cap aoe- they apply barriers in the thousand, they do the dmg- they rip/convert the boons....that's why everybody and his dog run full scourge/FB zerg because they basically do everything...and ofc this is what gw2 players want

[Tongku.5326]

This thread makes me wanna come back to the game and hop on my scourge !!!!!

Scourge aroundScourge aroundScourge upScourge upthen Scourge down

[X T D.6458]

@Jski.6180 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

But its moving back to that meta its just barrier that replacing the boons and now more so that resistance becomes chill now. Scourge is in effect a worst version of the boon ball meta at least during the old boon meta you could still die as boons do not stop you from taking dmg but barrier dose.

Barrier is not the same as boons, and there is little equivalency. Scourge and Spellbreaker were designed to fill a role, which is to counter the HoT boonball meta and enforce area control. The counter to Scourge is Firebrand and Mesmer. By itself Scourge is not hard to counter, but because of what the spec brings to WvW the effective strategy is to stack a group with Scourges to counter the boon spam of the opposing team and bring support to your group.

The shade spam is the only way Scourge will kill anything, none of its skills do enough damage on its own. Shades are also tied to your defenses like barriers and cleanses and consume life force, and the most effective way to regain life force is through quick kills in large numbers, basically zerging. This puts Scourges at a large disadvantages in solo/small scale fights and highly dependent on group support, timing is everything because often you only have once chance to land your burst which also leaves you vulnerable because you cannot use your shade skills for defense. Keep in mind that Scourge also gives up Shroud which is the Necro's second health bar in exchange for barrier. A Scourge' main defense is through offense, since the class has also always lacked mobility and proper sustain skills. Bad positioning is the best way to get yourself killed on a necro.

Is Scourge powerful? Yes, but people need to also look at the other side, it has a lot of disadvantages as mentioned above.

[mixxed.5862]

For me WvW is the most fun when there is a healthy balance between melee and ranged classes, it also allows for the most build diversity. The current meta game on the other hand is stale and heavily restrictive. The pirate ship just isn't very fun for anyone and the ranged focus of zergs deems all melee focused builds other than spellbreaker unviable. Simply buffing a few skills on the unwanted professions won't help. It's crucial to look into ways to reduce the effectiveness of the one build that dictates the play style in large scale right now: Scourge!

In an optimal zerg setup you currently bring 2 or more Scourges per party, because stacking them is so powerful. Scourge offers everything you need in WvW:

• Good damage in condi, power or hybrid setups with bursts of AoE damage from range. (At least now there are relevant cds.)
• Enough boon corrupts to deal with its one counter: Resistance. Especially so when stacking enough scourges.
• Very sturdy build and outstanding support (in celestial). Especially when stacked.
• A huge amount of soft CC: Cripple, cripple, cripple and chill from corrupting resistance. (But no immob anymore =) )
• Range of 900. A radius of 300 !!!
• In close range shade skills hit up to 10 targets !!!

In fact the main reason you even bother pushing in zerg fights is to profit from the increased target limit of your Scourges. 10 targets is too much. It destroys all hope of boarding the pirate ship. The melee hate of the Scourge trains will blow you up when you come close.

tldr: Scourge is the biggest balance problem in WvW. It's still incredibly overpowered in large scale. Anet needs to finally take a look at what makes it this dominant and meta defining in WvW specifically.

Suggestions:

• Don't let the radius and number of targets increase from Sand Savant apply to the effect around the Scourge.
• Reduce the radius increase of shades on Sand Savant.
• Stop shade skills from ticking around the Scourge altogether and completely redesign the spec. I like the OP's suggestions. But honestly I doubt a rework will ever happen.

[Awe.1096]

Scourges are fine. I am pretty sure this thing above is just a strange coincidence/sarcasm

[Roxanne.6140]

@"Awe.1096" said:Scourges are fine. I am pretty sure this thing above is just a strange coincidence/sarcasm

comps like that usually get run over by coordinated guild groups

[Aeolus.3615]

@"Awe.1096" said:Scourges are fine. I am pretty sure this thing above is just a strange coincidence/sarcasm

Balanced for ANet & plz report something with decent information, that proves nothing :D or lacks information.

Move along sir, move along.... next expantion will be worse... sicne it needs to atrack players to ignore HoT and PoF elite traits and feel forced to get the new toys wich is most what gw2 is about.. kek.

[Dawdler.8521]

There is a soulbeast in that pic. It's faked.

[Jski.6180]

@X T D.6458 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Scourge might be strong, but w/o it we go back to HoT style boonball meta, and....kitten that crap.

But its moving back to that meta its just barrier that replacing the boons and now more so that resistance becomes chill now. Scourge is in effect a worst version of the boon ball meta at least during the old boon meta you could still die as boons do not stop you from taking dmg but barrier dose.

Barrier is not the same as boons, and there is little equivalency. Scourge and Spellbreaker were designed to fill a role, which is to counter the HoT boonball meta and enforce area control. The counter to Scourge is Firebrand and Mesmer. By itself Scourge is not hard to counter, but because of what the spec brings to WvW the effective strategy is to stack a group with Scourges to counter the boon spam of the opposing team and bring support to your group.

The shade spam is the only way Scourge will kill anything, none of its skills do enough damage on its own. Shades are also tied to your defenses like barriers and cleanses and consume life force, and the most effective way to regain life force is through quick kills in large numbers, basically zerging. This puts Scourges at a large disadvantages in solo/small scale fights and highly dependent on group support, timing is everything because often you only have once chance to land your burst which also leaves you vulnerable because you cannot use your shade skills for defense. Keep in mind that Scourge also gives up Shroud which is the Necro's second health bar in exchange for barrier. A Scourge' main defense is through offense, since the class has also always lacked mobility and proper sustain skills. Bad positioning is the best way to get yourself killed on a necro.

Is Scourge powerful? Yes, but people need to also look at the other side, it has a lot of disadvantages as mentioned above.

Each scourge you add to a group it in turns support 10 targets and hit 10 targets. It is THE blob jobs and makes groups stronger the bigger. Its every thing ppl hate in wvw right now and it is op and far worst then the boon meta.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Dawdler.8521 said:There is a soulbeast in that pic. It's faked> @joneirikb.7506 said:Almost making me wish they'd adopt a proper Rock/Scissor/Paper format instead.... and I hate that system.

Anet tried, they realized they could not balance it nor maintain it, cause they dont understand on how to balance the classes that need to make players strong rather otherwise.

So they decided to make broken gameplay and counter it with more broken gameplay and hopeplayer call that balance.In theory and paper is, on the pracctice dont work like it looks.

[Dralor.3701]

Fb, sb and scourge are all super over represented right now.

[Mokk.2397]

The core classes were never properly balanced to begin with.Then came HOT which compounded the problem.Now PoF has thrown the whole game so far out of wack ,I doubt it will ever be put straight .As I said before ,the professions should never have exceeded the the core classes but only allowed a broader choice to the player .The core classes should have just as much an equal footing as any of the professions in any aspect of the game.When you have a META where 60% of the classes are excluded from game play there is a serious problem. How many Posts need to be made?How many have to leave WvW? How loud do people need to scream before ANET listens? HELLO!!! ANET!!!! ARE you Awake ?How about some input !

[XenesisII.1540]

Anet is not going to balance the new specs to the core ones, I think everyone should see that by now, despite them saying they would try to keep all of them balanced but just giving you a new way to play the class. There's currently 27 specs to balance, you think they bother doing that every balance pass? lol no, it'll be 9 at a time, the newest 9 and their meta, because next expansion they will release another 9 to build a new meta around.

The only changes to be had now are damage ones, and they already did that to conditions to the point that power is now back to being the meta, the only drastic mechanic changes to a class will probably come from a rework like the mesmer and deadeye recently got (but not really needed in front of other classes like renegade), doubt they would touch scourge much now.

They made the mistake of dumping shields on scourge to help with support, it really should have went to another class that needed some time in the meta like I dunno maybe engineers. Also the mistake of giving them shades for "area control" but making them way too powerful to begin with, like we needed more fire in the pirate shipping dump.

[Dralor.3701]

If/when you balance scourge please balance the other fotm classes so we see more than three classes in a zerg. Ty.

[MadBomber.3719]

@Dralor.3701 said:Fb, sb and scourge are all super over represented right now.

tbf GWEN comps were always the most represented classes in WvW zerging. not that scourge isn't broken just that it's always been dominant in representation

[Dralor.3701]

@MadBomber.3719 said:

@Dralor.3701 said:Fb, sb and scourge are all super over represented right now.

tbf GWEN comps were always the most represented classes in WvW zerging. not that scourge isn't broken just that it's always been dominant

I don’t disagree, I just think the power creep has made it worse.

[Kovu.7560]

@Dawdler.8521 said:There is a soulbeast in that pic. It's faked.Those scourges can enjoy some Dolyak Stance stab.Once. Then that Soulbeast will die. It doesn't have the sustain of a Firebrand.

~ Kovu

[Soggy Biscuit.9372]

@Roxanne.6140 said:

@"Awe.1096" said:

Scourges are fine. I am pretty sure this thing above is just a strange coincidence/sarcasm

comps like that usually get run over by coordinated guild groups

Does coordination matter at all? Even if it's a pug, that's 19 scouges throwing down 100ish AoEs in a matter of seconds whilst corrupting your boons 24/7, running right into your face as you get perma-rooted because boon conversion negating resistance/stab without any form of diminishing returns is reasonable.