Norns

[Drakezul.9102]

So I have notice that the Norns are nothing but humans just larger. There is nothing special about them at all, which when I brought this up with a guild mate, she told me Norns could transform into animal creatures I was excited to hear this and need proof of such a feat and sure enough all class for the Norn can do this except on the Rev. Which this greatly displeases me as it makes the Rev Norn basically a human Rev. I would like if the Devs could fix this issues as to allow the Norn Revs to have the ability of their race rather then exclude them from it. Which brings me to my next question does the other races have special abilities and does their revs not have those abilities? If they do that would mean that only the Norns suffer from this, if not then it makes sense making it even across the broad for all the species within the game.

[TheWolf.1602]

revenants can´t use any racial abilities

[Elva.6372]

Hey Drake, here's the wiki page for racial skills:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Racial_skill

I find some skills to be more useful than others, and less so after level 80, but they do add a lot of flavor and I enjoy using the Sylvari skill Summon Druid Spirit for my Druid.

[Thornwolf.9721]

The Rev's should be able to use their racial abilities I agree, but first they need to make the racial abilities WORTH using as a whole. The norn racial eliets are trash, and hardly work at all for any given time... They used to be "Decent" but they removed that because they dont want race to matter. Which in my honest opinion is a huge mistake and missed opportunity; You dont need to have stats effected but racial skills should be one of the things to consider when making your character.

In guild wars 1 the norn ALWAYS shifted to beast mode when in battle, and fought you as a werebear/werebeast creature which made them not only intimidating but also very powerful opponents. It would be nice to be given this treatment and allow us to really step into the role of our race, a charr fighting dirty is how they roll and a human using the power of their gods should be viable. (Especially since the Rev and in the case of the rev being more tied to the mists.)

Sylvari and their plants, asura and their tech... its all there in their basic design... let us use them and let them be viable options or simply remove them so they are not there to remind us that "Well you could of had useful racial abilities, but instead we just said nawh because we cant handle the issues that might come along with it." Hell "Rampage" on the warrior is basically the same thing as the norn forms, but its way more viable and way more fun to use..... I don't know why they feel the need to dumb down skills that should be used and should be applicable.

[DeanBB.4268]

Simple answer: elitism. IF a particular race had an advantage, then not only would a profession be desirable, but also a race, further excluding players. So if a norn warrior could deal 2% more damage than a charr warrior, it would be the norn warriors called for in a team.

Other than the issue with revenants, there is nothing preventing anyone from using the racial skills for flavor in their open world wandering.

[joneirikb.7506]

Revenants unfortunately can't use any racial skills, I honestly don't know if this is an oversight, or a decision because every other skill Rev has uses energy, so having access to skills without energy usage, might be an advantage in many cases.

And as others have stated, Race skills can't be "good", because then races becomes "meta", ANet really wanted people to play the race they wanted because of the looks, fashion, lore, preference etc. Not what is "the best" at something. Which I think is a good ideal.

That being said, I wish they did make a few QoL changes, especially to Norn elites (and the similar human Avatar of Melandru), at the very least disable the duration and let us stay in the form until we leave it again (by clicking the elite again), and then set it to the CD. That way, at least we could enjoy the mode in all it's weakness, instead of just bashing all the buttons before it goes away. (Might disable this in WvW, since Bear and Snow Leopard does have some good mobility to run away from stuff, though I'd love that too!)

[starlinvf.1358]

@"joneirikb.7506" said:Revenants unfortunately can't use any racial skills, I honestly don't know if this is an oversight, or a decision because every other skill Rev has uses energy, so having access to skills without energy usage, might be an advantage in many cases.

And as others have stated, Race skills can't be "good", because then races becomes "meta", ANet really wanted people to play the race they wanted because of the looks, fashion, lore, preference etc. Not what is "the best" at something. Which I think is a good ideal.

That being said, I wish they did make a few QoL changes, especially to Norn elites (and the similar human Avatar of Melandru), at the very least disable the duration and let us stay in the form until we leave it again (by clicking the elite again), and then set it to the CD. That way, at least we could enjoy the mode in all it's weakness, instead of just bashing all the buttons before it goes away. (Might disable this in WvW, since Bear and Snow Leopard does have some good mobility to run away from stuff, though I'd love that too!)

Its 100% intentional. Rev was meant to have an extremely rigid skill set; and initially wasn't even allowed to reorder utility skills.

Also.... theres a reason they're disabled in PvP. Some of those skills are insanely powerful in a situation that allows for it- and I'm surprised they haven't just whole sale removed those skills considering since they have no desire to maintain them. Bear and Snow Leopard have the same Charge skill as flesh Golem..... the parent skill is more awkward, but if it wasn't, I can tell you I'd spend most of my time in it just for the massive CC potential on a 20 sec CD. It was actually less useful before Breakbars, since Defiance stacks required too much precision and coordination to exploit.

Players have been asking for Racial skills to get a proper QOL pass, and repurpose them for better defined entertainment value. Some skills need to scraped or redone entirely, while others need some tweaks. I've even contemplated a more standardized format for skill types, to address the distribution problem with races.

1 Heal, 3 Utilities (Ranged, AOE, and Melee), and 2 Elites (one summon, one transform). Most already line up with this, some will need additions to flesh the set out, and a few skills can be consolidated. Have the end goal of the full skill set feeling competent, but not particularly effective in solo situations. Intending them for casual group oriented fights is probably the best way to balance them in Core. For HOT and POF, the inherent risk factors should discourage their use.

For instance.... reduce the cool down of racial transforms and summons to 3 minutes across the board. Increase transform life span to 60 seconds across the board. Transforms should include 1 or 2 impactful skill (likely to be the CC ones) and make sure they're on a 25 second cool down. That gives you enough time to play around with them, have a strong opening, but suffer attrition in drawn out fights. Summons should be 45 seconds, and summon 2 minions.

To consolidate the Norn Transforms- utilize 2 effects. "Shapeshift" effect is the primary timer, and triggers on the first transform. "Become the X" is a 2 second effect triggered by toggling the Elite skill to cycle through the 4 types of forms. When the effect expires, the player transforms into that form. The delay is allow the player to flip through the list to find the form they want. To exit the form early, the dismiss skill is moved to the Heal slot, and ends the Shapeshift effect.

Norn utility skills can be filled out using the Lesser Spirits. Owl exists as a ranged attack. Ox can act as a heal skill, Wolverine for melee, and Eagle's Cry as AOE support (vul + swiftness, and a play up of Avian pet skill). The Elite summon made Call Wurm, summoning 2 Wurms with Ranged and burrow.

etc.....

[Danikat.8537]

All races have special racial skills which the others can't use. None of them are very powerful or effective because Anet wanted race to be a cosmetic choice - so no one can tell you that you picked the 'wrong' race and you have to make a new character to be allowed into their groups. (Which is good since you can't change your race.)

The norn elite skills are probably the most dramatic - they change into animal forms (bear, raven, snowleopard and wolf). Charr can summon their warband to help and use a bunch of extra weaponry, sylvari can summon plant allies and a druid spirit, asura get golems to help them and humans can use spells themed around their gods.

Unfortunately revenants can't use any of these, no matter what race they are, because they have a totally unique skill system. It's annoying, and part of the reason I made my norn revenant into a necromancer (I really liked the raven theme I had going and wanted to be able to use the elite skill) and made a charr revenant instead (I don't care if she can't use her racial skills).

(Also culturally there are a lot of differences between the norn and humans. In a lot of ways the norn are more like charr, but less organised. But you have to get into the lore to see that, if you're just concerned with how your character looks then yes they are just taller humans with different hair options and tattoos.)