Night capping needs to go....like 5 years ago.

[Israel.7056]

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:You are neglecting to address the fact that these players DO NOT HAVE their own regional servers. So, the claim that you have some sort of proprietary ownership right to the servers is at the very least in disagreement with ANets position on the subject.

Easy solution, Anet establishes an OCX/SEA server and locks out NA/EU timezones there so no one can night cap them and then no one can night cap us anymore either. Problem solved everyone wins.

[Israel.7056]

@Kaiser.9873 said:It's a worldwide game. I used to argue that nightcapping was a terrible abomination, robbing my server of rightful wins. Honestly who cares. They deserve their time in the Sun as much as NA players, and really winning means zip.

It is now but it doesn't have to be. They could change the game. NA players have lived with being irrelevant for so long that many NA players have just learned to not care at all about the score. The ones who do care about the score stack servers with OCX/SEA. Those have been our only two options since launch but they don't have to be.

[Israel.7056]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@"coglin.1496" said:No one is ruining your match up good sir other than yourself. You're being dishonest because if you truly cared you would spend less time on the forms and more time in the game off hours preventing those from capping your keeps. I am a NA player on an NA server. So I'm unclear what you were going on about as far as server priorities. Simply because I put employment and family over the priority of working on the schedule that you think I should doesn't mean they should rearrange the game to suit your personal needs.

Yes it does because I'm in the majority of NA players who are playing the proper NA schedule and you're not. You are an outlier and thus you don't deserve consideration in this matter. I don't care if you have a family and a job, lots of people have families and jobs. I only care that you take stuff during what is night time for the majority of NA players. You are a night capper and you shouldn't be allowed to do it anymore because it ruins matches for the larger majority of NA players. They should lockout OCX/SEA on NA and then make an OCX/SEA server and then you and everyone who plays when you do can go play there and no one will have to worry about nightcapping anymore. Problem solved completely.

I'm having some trouble locating where ArenaNet defined the "proper NA schedule".

I defined it but it's based on years of playing the game. Everyone knows when the timezones are if they've played the game. All Anet has to do is codify what's already common knowledge to players. The majority of NA players play between 12pm est and 4am est. Anything outside of that is mostly Australians and SEA players. This guy happens to be an outlier but it makes no sense to structure policy around exceptions.

[Israel.7056]

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:do you really believe all of this bullcrap you spew in this thread?

I don't think it's "bullcrap." It's a complete solution to the problem, nothing anyone else has suggested completely solves the problem. Changing the scoring does not solve the issue of nightcapping only server locking does. It's a strict measure but I believe it's the right thing to do.

[Trejgon.9367]

@Israel.7056 said:

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:do you really believe all of this bullcrap you spew in this thread?

I don't think it's "bullcrap." It's a complete solution to the problem, nothing anyone else has suggested completely solves the problem. Changing the scoring does not solve the issue of nightcapping only server locking does. It's a strict measure but I believe it's the right thing to do.

you have just said that other player "does not matter at all" only because of hours he's playing at. this is why I asked if you read or believe what you are writing here.

changing the scoring may alleviate the very issue you were claiming ("off-hours minority dictating terms of engagement for prime time majority") while locking the servers out based on arbitrary choice of hours will only alienate big chunk of playerbase - myself included and I actually mostly play in our regions prime time. but if playing was restricted to some arbitrary hours I'd definitelly go look for other game that does not limit availability to content I enjoy.

also "nightcapping" as far as my experience goes is no longer a real issue ever since skirmishes became a thing.

EDIT: I'm EU tho, so dunno how it is like for NA - the only real issue I recall in past weeks is one mexican guild on one of german servers running 20-50man blobs at the time when it starts to be problematic to raise up 15 under single banner between the maps

[ugrakarma.9416]

@coglin.1496 said:

@Dayra.7405 said:

@"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:How would you propose to solve this, without preventing people from playing WvW during the time they have free?

The community worked hard to work out many proposals for that. But it was ignored till it was to late. The skirmish system now balance it a bit. You only get a skirmish win per 2h, but you no longer get 10 times as much score-difference during the night than during primetime.

It was ignored because most of what the community offered were horrible ideas, and not a single idea that would really resolve the issue was offered at all in my opinion.

But since some years it's irrelevant, as every Veteran sees the scoring as irrelevant, at best it is something to manipulate to meet the opponent you want to meet.

So what? If it's irrelevant why do you care? If you Proclaim none of it matters what are you worried about when something is or is not capped? If it is so irrelevant why do you care what time of day something is or is not capped?

Nightcapping is now mostly: force your primetime population into matches they cannot stand.

No it is not. As far as I can tell it is simply you trying to turn the term "Nightcapping" into a derogatory statement to use as a personal attack against anybody who cannot play the same time you can.

That's ok, as it's self regulating, i.e.

people that night-cap harm their own server

, by taking away fight-balance for the majority of the population :)

I work 12 night shifts. So many of the days I am off work I am up for 12 hours at night as I sleep during the day, and spend time in the evening hours with my wife and kids, until my family goes to bed.

The problem here is you are so self-centered that you dubbed me an evil night camper because I rather spend time with my family when you're playing, and play when it is convenient for me and enjoyable for me to play with my co-workers who work the same shift.

I make your words mine.

I have irregular schedules and I play both in NA and OCX.

Any idea of "official time" is a nonsense and punishes the hardcore players who play more than 6 to 10 hours in a row.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@"coglin.1496" said:No one is ruining your match up good sir other than yourself. You're being dishonest because if you truly cared you would spend less time on the forms and more time in the game off hours preventing those from capping your keeps. I am a NA player on an NA server. So I'm unclear what you were going on about as far as server priorities. Simply because I put employment and family over the priority of working on the schedule that you think I should doesn't mean they should rearrange the game to suit your personal needs.

Yes it does because I'm in the majority of NA players who are playing the proper NA schedule and you're not. You are an outlier and thus you don't deserve consideration in this matter. I don't care if you have a family and a job, lots of people have families and jobs. I only care that you take stuff during what is night time for the majority of NA players. You are a night capper and you shouldn't be allowed to do it anymore because it ruins matches for the larger majority of NA players. They should lockout OCX/SEA on NA and then make an OCX/SEA server and then you and everyone who plays when you do can go play there and no one will have to worry about nightcapping anymore. Problem solved completely.

I'm having some trouble locating where ArenaNet defined the "proper NA schedule".

I defined it but it's based on years of playing the game. Everyone knows when the timezones are if they've played the game. All Anet has to do is codify what's already common knowledge to players. The majority of NA players play between 12pm est and 4am est. Anything outside of that is mostly Australians and SEA players. This guy happens to be an outlier but it makes no sense to structure policy around exceptions.12pm? Who can play at that time? Children and [expletive deleted]? Why would you want to cater to "early afternoon cappers"?

[Israel.7056]

@"Manasa Devi.7958" said:12pm? Who can play at that time? Children and [expletive deleted]? Why would you want to cater to "early afternoon cappers"?

12pm is when the est NA players start to log on.

[Israel.7056]

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:you have just said that other player "does not matter at all" only because of hours he's playing at. this is why I asked if you read or believe what you are writing here.

changing the scoring may alleviate the very issue you were claiming ("off-hours minority dictating terms of engagement for prime time majority") while locking the servers out based on arbitrary choice of hours will only alienate big chunk of playerbase - myself included and I actually mostly play in our regions prime time. but if playing was restricted to some arbitrary hours I'd definitelly go look for other game that does not limit availability to content I enjoy.

also "nightcapping" as far as my experience goes is no longer a real issue ever since skirmishes became a thing.

EDIT: I'm EU tho, so dunno how it is like for NA - the only real issue I recall in past weeks is one mexican guild on one of german servers running 20-50man blobs at the time when it starts to be problematic to raise up 15 under single banner between the maps

For the purpose of this discussion he doesn't matter he's an outlier. He's even said as much. It makes no sense to try to structure policy to suit outliers because they represent a small fraction of players by definition. Their concerns shouldn't outweigh the concerns of the majority.

The numbers aren't arbitrary they're based on well established player patterns in game. On NA there are four major timezones and some separate those four into early/late but they are EU/NA/OCX/SEA. EU prime on NA is not exactly the same as EU prime on EU servers so that's a little confusing but there's large overlap on NA servers between EU/NA which is why I said 12pm est instead of 4pm est but I could see an argument for 4pm est. There's also a bit of overlap with late PST NA and OCX but most of the PST NA are logged off by 4am est. The main nightcapping on NA occurs during OCX/SEA because there are fewer of them in total across all servers and they tend to concentrate themselves which means that only certain servers have any serious OCX/SEA coverage while everyone else has almost nothing. This has been the case since launch and it's why servers like JQ and BG have been so historically dominant on NA.

Nightcapping is still very much an issue on NA, skirmishes haven't fixed it at all. All skirmishes have done is make the scores appear closer but the conditions for winning haven't changed in the slightest because the value of nightcapping is not just the points but the strategic advantage it offers. So basically a server with offprime coverage has about 8 hours of almost completely uninterrupted time every single day to take whatever they want and upgrade everything they own. This is a massive advantage as I'm sure you can imagine.

Changing the scoring would help a little but it wouldn't actually fix nightcapping because people could still cap things at night and then upgrade them. So the servers with offprime coverage would still have a huge advantage at the beginning of every single day even if they didn't pick up as many points overnight. The proposed scoring change is just something that should obviously exist anyways but it doesn't solve the issue of nightcapping.

My solution would fix the issue of nightcapping completely.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

@"Israel.7056" said:For the purpose of this discussion he doesn't matter he's an outlier. He's even said as much. It makes no sense to try to structure policy to suit outliers because they represent a small fraction of players by definition. Their concerns shouldn't outweigh the concerns of the majority.

Honestly, a whole lot of the time and effort in civilized societies goes into protecting the minority from the "kitten you" of the majority. This policy explicitly kicks to the curb anyone who works evening shifts, or otherwise doesn't fit into a very narrow definition of when it is "acceptable" to play WvW. It is not a nice policy, or a kind policy, or an accepting one.

I don't think that this will be implemented, because ANet do care about more than your enjoyment, and are not willing to sacrifice others for it. Which is really for the best for WvW overall, honestly, even if it means some servers capture everything overnight, and others don't. Nobody really wins from making WvW harder to play, and driving away players, not even you IMO.

[River Willow.6721]

This thread should have been closed 5 years ago.There is no such thing as nightcapping nor has there ever been.If you don't want to play in a 24/7 persistent world, find another game.Changing this one to suit your mood is not an option.

[Israel.7056]

@"SlippyCheeze.5483" said:Honestly, a whole lot of the time and effort in civilized societies goes into protecting the minority from the "kitten you" of the majority. This policy explicitly kicks to the curb anyone who works evening shifts, or otherwise doesn't fit into a very narrow definition of when it is "acceptable" to play WvW. It is not a nice policy, or a kind policy, or an accepting one.

I don't think that this will be implemented, because ANet do care about more than your enjoyment, and are not willing to sacrifice others for it. Which is really for the best for WvW overall, honestly, even if it means some servers capture everything overnight, and others don't. Nobody really wins from making WvW harder to play, and driving away players, not even you IMO.

All they have to do is give them their own server and time lock ours. That way the people who nightcap on NA can go play against one another and the rest of us can finally be done with nightcapping forever.

I doubt they will change anything as well because they're probably months into development of alliances and I imagine they'll want to see how that works out before they make any other serious changes. Perhaps alliances will fix nightcapping but I doubt it.

[Dante.1763]

This thread effectively comes down to: "Im going to cry because people play when i cant."

i guess fuck the people who work evening shifts or odd hours right? which by the way in 2004, was 15 million people(Irregular schedules, Swing, evening or night shifts) according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Obviously not all of them play, but thats a fairly large chunk of people in the US this suggested change would screw over if even a small portion of them played this game.

[LetoII.3782]

@coglin.1496 said:I do not know what you're talking about in reference to MAG being a focal point of anything. Could you quote the exact section of my post in which I mentioned Magumma in any way shape or form please. As well could you show me the election results in which you were elected you speak for the entirety of Magumma?

@coglin.1496 said:Nothing is stopping anybody on your server from playing within that time. Yourself and every player on your server makes a conscious decision not to participate in play time in off peak hours in which you could literally combat those you are complaining about.You seem to have referenced my server and I multiple times here... Maybe you're confused about the meaning of the words "you" and "your"

@coglin.1496 said:It appears you do not understand what the term strawman means when referring to an argument.

Indeed.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manThis argument isn't about me or my server. It's about a small minority of players dominating matchups.Your logical fallacy I.E. the strawman argument is ignoring the existence of primetime hours, when the majority of Arenanet's customers play. Instead you've attempted to frame this issue as a matter of personal choice. Yes, theoretically we can all play the game as many hours as we like. But in the real world each server has a peak playtime which is a small part of the day. Weighting primetime equally to hours when participation is much lower is not equality. It places much more power to effect matches in the hands of offprime players.And when a system is supposedly based on equality of contribution, but ends up controlled by a small minority, that is minority rule.

[Israel.7056]

@Dante.1763 said:i guess kitten the people who work evening shifts or odd hours right?

They could still play on the proposed OCX/SEA server.

which by the way in 2004, was 15 million people(Irregular schedules, Swing, evening or night shifts) according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Obviously not all of them play, but thats a fairly large chunk of people in the US this suggested change would screw over if even a small portion of them played this game.

If we assume that something like 350 million people live in the US that leaves 335 million who would fall into the more normal schedule group and if we assume the distribution of players is roughly equivalent (I'm just going along with your supposition) then that means that something like 96 percent of NA players fall within the range of normal NA play times. That's a much larger chunk wouldn't you say?

[Dante.1763]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Dante.1763 said:i guess kitten the people who work evening shifts or odd hours right?

They could still play on the proposed OCX/SEA server.

which by the way in 2004, was 15 million people(Irregular schedules, Swing, evening or night shifts) according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Obviously not all of them play, but thats a fairly large chunk of people in the US this suggested change would screw over if even a small portion of them played this game.

If we assume that something like 350 million people live in the US that leaves 335 million who would fall into the more normal schedule group and if we assume the distribution of players is roughly equivalent (I'm just going along with your supposition) then that means that something like 96 percent of NA players fall within the range of normal NA play times. That's a much larger chunk wouldn't you say?

Doesnt matter at all. That study only did full time workers, it didnt cover part time workers who work during the same periods. But at this point im done responding, you are very clearly a jaded person when it comes to this and literally nothing will change your mind. Either that, or you are trolling with this thread. The fact that you cant understand that ANET locking a player base out of WvW being bad for their business, bad for the game despite what you think, and ultimately bad for the people currently playing the game with full set up accounts and characters who simply cannot do server shifts, who have jobs during that time frame who live in the NA, and forcing them to play on a overseas server would affect their game play experience both physically because of lag and ping and then the feeling/actually being alienated from their friends, or family if they have those that play.

Goodday, jaded person/troll whichever you are.

[Blue.1207]

Welcome to Maguuma, best KDR in entire game every reset since forever and we just get nightcapped because we have absolutely 0 SEA guilds/players as well as ANET never linking us.

Sorry for actually having a life and having to work all day.

[Israel.7056]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Dante.1763 said:i guess kitten the people who work evening shifts or odd hours right?

They could still play on the proposed OCX/SEA server.

which by the way in 2004, was 15 million people(Irregular schedules, Swing, evening or night shifts) according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Obviously not all of them play, but thats a fairly large chunk of people in the US this suggested change would screw over if even a small portion of them played this game.

If we assume that something like 350 million people live in the US that leaves 335 million who would fall into the more normal schedule group and if we assume the distribution of players is roughly equivalent (I'm just going along with your supposition) then that means that something like 96 percent of NA players fall within the range of normal NA play times. That's a much larger chunk wouldn't you say?

Doesnt matter at all. That study only did full time workers, it didnt cover part time workers who work during the same periods. But at this point im done responding, you are very clearly a jaded person when it comes to this and literally nothing will change your mind. Either that, or you are trolling with this thread. The fact that you cant understand that ANET locking a player base out of WvW being bad for their business, bad for the game despite what you think, and ultimately bad for the people

currently playing the game with full set up accounts and characters who simply cannot do server shifts

, who have jobs during that time frame who live in the NA, and forcing them to play on a overseas server would affect their game play experience both physically because of lag and ping and then the feeling/actually being alienated from their friends, or family if they have those that play.

Goodday, jaded person/troll whichever you are.

No I'm not going to change my mind. It would be obviously good for business to favor the vast majority of NA players over the minority. It would be good for the game because NA players would actually matter. It would be good for the majority of people who play normal times.

We are many many more than them our interests should take priority over theirs not the other way around.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Dante.1763 said:i guess kitten the people who work evening shifts or odd hours right?

They could still play on the proposed OCX/SEA server.

which by the way in 2004, was 15 million people(Irregular schedules, Swing, evening or night shifts) according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Obviously not all of them play, but thats a fairly large chunk of people in the US this suggested change would screw over if even a small portion of them played this game.

If we assume that something like 350 million people live in the US that leaves 335 million who would fall into the more normal schedule group and if we assume the distribution of players is roughly equivalent (I'm just going along with your supposition) then that means that something like 96 percent of NA players fall within the range of normal NA play times. That's a much larger chunk wouldn't you say?

Doesnt matter at all. That study only did full time workers, it didnt cover part time workers who work during the same periods. But at this point im done responding, you are very clearly a jaded person when it comes to this and literally nothing will change your mind. Either that, or you are trolling with this thread. The fact that you cant understand that ANET locking a player base out of WvW being bad for their business, bad for the game despite what you think, and ultimately bad for the people

currently playing the game with full set up accounts and characters who simply cannot do server shifts

, who have jobs during that time frame who live in the NA, and forcing them to play on a overseas server would affect their game play experience both physically because of lag and ping and then the feeling/actually being alienated from their friends, or family if they have those that play.

Goodday, jaded person/troll whichever you are.

No I'm not going to change my mind. It would be obviously good for business to favor the vast majority of NA players over the minority. It would be good for the game because NA players would actually matter. It would be good for the majority of people who play normal times.

We are many many more than them our interests should take priority over theirs not the other way around.

Persecution syndrome is real. There is no priority. It's a game of whatever happens happens. 24/7 up-time regardless of who plays when.

[Israel.7056]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:It's a game of whatever happens happens. 24/7 up-time regardless of who plays when.

Nonsense it's a game of whoever has the most OCX/SEA wins. NA coverage doesn't matter if you don't have OCX/SEA and it doesn't matter at all if you have enough OCX/SEA to overwhelm the enemy servers and it's been this way since launch, skirmishes or no skirmishes. If you don't have OCX/SEA you will lose to the servers who do. If you do have some OCX/SEA but the enemy has more you will lose. Every time. Guaranteed.

We don't matter on our own regional servers and we never have so NA players have always had two options: play on a server with OCX/SEA and have a chance of winning or play on any other server and lose for sure.

[Trejgon.9367]

@Israel.7056 said:My solution would fix the issue of nightcapping completely.

you know what would also fix it completely? World restructuring that is in development. And without kicking fellas that for whatever reason cannot play the mode at hours you'd want them to play.

by the way:I am quite confident that there is a window when OCX/SEA is already going to sleep and the primetime NA is still not playing (in work/school/sleeping whatever) I bet that would be very nice moment to recap and reset those t3s.....

[LetoII.3782]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

by the way:I am quite confident that there is a window when OCX/SEA is already going to sleep and the primetime NA is still not playing (in work/school/sleeping whatever) I bet that would be very nice moment to recap and reset those t3s.....

.. You mean EU?You'd suggest EU players abandon their own server cluster to come nightcap on NA?Or maybe everyone that can't fit on BG or JQ should go nightcap EU's servers?

Personally, I wish Anet had borrowed some space on CCP's servers in Iceland and the two were combined.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Night capping? No such thing. Learn and adapt.

[starhunter.6015]

I know numerous people who work nights and play all night on their day offs, WvW has 24 hr coverage. Some servers just stacked to cover it better is all. The new alliance system should help fix some of those issues.

[Trejgon.9367]

@LetoII.3782 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

by the way:I am quite confident that there is a window when OCX/SEA is already going to sleep and the primetime NA is still not playing (in work/school/sleeping whatever) I bet that would be very nice moment to recap and reset those t3s.....

.. You mean EU?You'd suggest EU players abandon their own server cluster to come nightcap on NA?Or maybe everyone that can't fit on BG or JQ should go nightcap EU's servers?

Personally, I wish Anet had borrowed some space on CCP's servers in Iceland and the two were combined.

dunno can't be bothered to actually calculate those timezones.....

but hey deso can have mexican guilds in it, so I wouldn't be surprised to see germans on some of yer (NA) servers as well....