Are Mantras "dead"?

[musu.9205]

@OriOri.8724 said:The problem with the on charge effects is that they were put in specifically because mesmer mantras "are designed to be charged while in combat", yet we still have a 2.25 second charge time on them, which is asinine if you want to do it in combat.

If Anet would reduce the charge time another 0.5 seconds, down to 1.75 second charge time, it would be significantly better while still providing a very long cast time when in combat.

even then the effect from healing or condi removal mantra are not worth it .short duration aegis and resistance don't really have much use when you have to cast mantra for 1.75s .

[OriOri.8724]

I agree that the on charge effects need to be looked at, but the concept is nice, in theory. And the charge times need to come down regardless, since we are supposed to be charging them in combat.

[Jeknar.6184]

The gutted Healing Mantra is worthless unless you are running healing power gear and you cannot even use it as a condi cleanse because Mender's Purity was nerfed in favor of Power Cleanse buff (Which became mandatory).

Mantra of Distraction still see some use on builds running Confunding Suggestions to secure a full mindwrack on target.

I never see anyone else run the other mantras, unless it's a Boon Bot Bitch running the stability one because the group is lacking guardians.

[Kain Francois.4328]

With the exception of Healing Mantra (which is still good), it seems like Mantras were buffed, if anything.

Mantra of Pain remains meta for Power Mesmer, and for Healing builds if have the trait Restorative Mantras it heals allies a huge amount.

Mantra of Recovery is also decent still if traited for Inspration. Massive heal on cast, with a 10s cd. If traited, then it heals allies on preparation too.

As for other mantras, they are more utility than technically meta. However, Mantra of Concentration is an accessible stunbreak/stability on you and allies, Mantra of Distraction recharges diversion and aoe dazes (useful for clearing trash mobs in dungeons), and Mantra of Resolve is good when you know you need a cheap condi removal.

I don't see the issue.

[draxynnic.3719]

If you compare them to their untraited forms, yeah, technically they're buffed.

In practice, though, what you want out of the mantras is generally something you can reactively use now, not something that will give you a benefit after a couple of seconds of charging. Consider Concentration, for instance: if you're worried about CC, you really want to have that mantra UP. 5s of aegis and stability might help for the couple of seconds after you re-enter the fight (you didn't try to charge the mantra in a fight where you were expecting to need CC protection, did you?), but not much more than that. Resolve gives you 2s of resistance after 2s of copping whatever the conditions are already doing to you... I guess it means that once you've charged the mantra, you have some grace period before you fire off the first charge? Distraction... the charge effect there might do exactly nothing.

In each case, I would definitely take a third charge over any of the on-charge effects.

[OriOri.8724]

One of my gripes with our current mantras is the ammo system itself. It allows for much more flexibility than the old charge system had. Some mantras would be better off with 3 charges, even if each charge was slightly weaker. And now that we have the ammo system, ANet has the tech to give some of our mantras 3 charges, and keep some of them at 2 charges, and still keep it balanced.

[Aetatis.5418]

want more range for cleanse mantra and stab mantra FOR YEARS (wvw player) - so that mesmer is able to be a wannabe guard q.qyet mantras got not much love, just another way in being not too good. yay

[Curunen.8729]

Heal Mantra is kitten without Restorative Mantras. the 50% conditional nerf really hurt.

Recovery is solid right now, but not entirely necessary if taking say Elusive Mind and Jaunt with other condi removal options. Distraction is always decent, and I don't have enough experience with Concentration, not being a group/organised wvw player.

[Llethander.3972]

I use Mantra of Resolve/Power Cleanse and Mantra of Pain/Power Spike regularly in PvE. I really do miss the third cast of Mantras, though... Firebrand's mantras feel way more impactful. I am not a fan of the effect gained upon charging our mantras.

[Cyninja.2954]

Between the guardian mantras (faster ammo recharge, final use effect increase, 3 charges, longer cooldown) and the mesmer mantras (on channel effect, slower ammo recharge, 2 charges, shorter cooldown) with both having a 2.25 channel time, I clearly prefer the guardian ones.

The entire combat casting idea is nice in theory, but falls short in reality. Not to mentioned that guaridan mantras feel like mantras on steroids comapred to our mantras.

I do hope they'll give mantras a rework or at least adjustment with the next balance patch. As of right now, they are at best niche (condi cleanse backup on Sloth for example) or just trash (mantra of pain). The fact that MoP gets any use at all is more due to our terrible damage utility skills compared to it being in any way useful.

[OriOri.8724]

Guard mantras have a 2.75sec cast time. But yea in almost every way they are better than mesmer mantras. We really need to get 3 charges on at least a few of ours, even if the third charge isn't any stronger. I mean as they are used, we might as well not have the charge time or the ammo system, and just have the charged skill on its charge CD. Because that's how MoP is used in raids anyway. You only use the one charge so you don't have to recharge it.

[Cyninja.2954]

@OriOri.8724 said:Guard mantras have a 2.75sec cast time. But yea in almost every way they are better than mesmer mantras. We really need to get 3 charges on at least a few of ours, even if the third charge isn't any stronger. I mean as they are used, we might as well not have the charge time or the ammo system, and just have the charged skill on its charge CD. Because that's how MoP is used in raids anyway. You only use the one charge so you don't have to recharge it.

My bad, wasn't paying attention. Still being able to precast the mantra and not really worry about recasting it (with faster ammo recharge and big final omph if needed) on the power level of guardian stills feels a lot better than mesmer mantras.

Guess we will have to wait and see what arenanet decides.

[musu.9205]

guard mantras are harder to land on allies . we do have to consider that .but it usually doesn't make too much difference .i feel if anet could set different value of mantra for allies and mesmer themselves .we could get better "buff ". especially for things like stability mantra or healing mantra .make healing mantra offer some utilty for aillies like regen or vigor while has more raw healing for mesmer .

[Alveen.7239]

I wouldn’t say they’re dead but overall they aren’t as good as they used to be, the 3 charges were what made them worth slotting in imo. Hopefully they become 3 baseline like FB.

[draxynnic.3719]

@OriOri.8724 said:Guard mantras have a 2.75sec cast time. But yea in almost every way they are better than mesmer mantras. We really need to get 3 charges on at least a few of ours, even if the third charge isn't any stronger. I mean as they are used, we might as well not have the charge time or the ammo system, and just have the charged skill on its charge CD. Because that's how MoP is used in raids anyway. You only use the one charge so you don't have to recharge it.

Which is actually one of the interesting consequences of having three charges. With two charges, you either wait until you've got both charges ready (in which case any time you spend after the recharge is wasted) or you blow the mantra and have to re-prepare it. With three, you have a 'middle ground' where you have two charges ready: firing it then doesn't blow the mantra, but as long as you fire it before the third one completes, you have no wasted recharge time either.