Spiteful Spirit?

[Acyk.9671]

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[Axl.8924]

The problem is: Reaper's damage is already counterable and having high burst is necessary for where it is. If it can't deal damage, it cannot pressure, and thus it becomes non meta for pvp. I understand reaper hurts a lot, but you can cc him and he is slow.

A lot of things would need a overhaul as well in necro to make it viable enough for longer fights, because less damage means longer fights, longer fights mean more necessity of sustain, because reaper sacrificed sustain.

You want to lower damage of this era to heart of thorns, that would be nice actually, but you also need mechanics to make it viable as a group control of enemies.

Thing is: I am legit worried that reaper will be gutted no other class will be nerfed, and reaper and necro in general will be back in the trash bin.

[Acyk.9671]

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[Axl.8924]

Group of enemy players. Reapers are made for collaborating in pressuring enemies to get off a point. They do not possess the necessary sustain to roam, nor the mobility to escape bad situations. Quickness is more of a thing for catching enemies.

Changes of pvp can also have severe consequences on pvp, and changing how skills work could break a class in pve if not careful.Reaper is still weaker Than every pure dps class out there.

[Acyk.9671]

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[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

Come to think of it, I wonder if I caused this nerf last week. We had an anet player on HoD BL and I took him and 2 others out at swc sentry, then killed him at least 3 more times. Or maybe that's just a little arrogant to consider. :p

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Acyk.9671" said:Yes i get your point but i don't think you understand my hypothetical point.Each elite spec is approximately made the same way:-1 trait line is about replacing/ giving alternative to core "elite" spec (soul reaping for necro)

• 1 trait line enhance/ replace a spec (first trait line of reaper is tied to blood magic/personal sustain)
• 1 trait line is new mechanic or replace/enhance an existing spec ( middle trait line of reaper is tied to spite)

I disagree with your statement here. Core spec will always be available to the professions, which mean that they will automatically stack with e-specs. You can't imagine an e-spec that replace those specs because it's obvious that if you design an e-spec like that you will make the spec that it replace almost mandatory to take in order to stack the bonus and lean toward an extrem that will outperform everything else. In essence your theoretical point would only lead to a loss of build diversity which isn't the point of the e-specs.

In solo content you will most likely chose a spec that is different from your elite spec trait line, that's what Anet expects from you (you still have some room though). So almost no chance you pick both Soul Reaping for Death Perception and Reaper's Onslaught at the same time.

Nope. In solo content (open PvE/LS instance) you'll play the most effective build 9 time out of 10 because in GW2 the best defense is offense. And it's unfortunately especially true for the necromancer. Most of the time the defensive trait are there to satisfy PvP purpose.

For example if you pick Reaper's Onslaught trait line in reaper (last one tied to soul reaping), you will pick specs like Blood Magic and Spite to have some damage/sustain/corrupt.

You won't, really... Blood magic will mostly favor grouplay, as long as there is more damage loaded in another traitline, this traitline will be disregard in solo content. The sustain in solo content isn't something that players will naturally seek.

In group content, you pick a class as what's best at, you are a role. So if firebrand/chrono/scrapper take care of sustain role you can specialize Reaper as full damage + corrupt where you would pick both death perception and Reaper's Onslaught + Spite spec line. Blood magic only becomes a choice if increasing group damage/sustain is more efficient than optimizing your own personal damage (Pve Raid being the extreme). It is a real balance problem that's why I said reaper might need a ferocity nerf in WvW. You can keep +300/+300 ferocity for pvp and pve.

The issue is that your theory relie on a basis where the reaper is dealing massively more damage than other profession when in fact the reaper, even with it's 600 ferocity buff can't even dream of reaching the damage potential of other professions.

In reality, the real issue isn't ferocity, I'll even go as far as saying that the 600 ferocity buff is totally fine. The real issue is where half the ferocity buff is. The problem is that a trait with 33% crit chance also grant 300 point of ferocity. The 300 ferocity need to go elsewhere, ideally they change/remove dhuumfire which is also a problem child and put the 300 ferocity there.

Honnestly, the issue isn't the ferocity numbers or even the damage that the reaper can dish out. The issue is that the reaper is at the point where he don't need to gear himself toward damage to deal damage.

And in case of spiteful spirit nerf, the issue is that ANet really want to push onto the necromancer a design where procs lead to other procs which end up in a mess for both Condi spec and Power specs. The issue isn't damage it's the way the necromancer is designed from head to toes. This design is bound to create situationnal "imbalance" when playing against players and at the same time it is also bound to have low effectiveness in PvE situations.

At this point, unless there is a full revamp of all necromancer's trait and a rework of it's defensive mechanism, PvPers will always perceive the necromancer as OP despite being at the bottom of the barrel in damage, support and, ironically, defense (the defense of a necromancer isn't great, it can't match the potential defense of any other profession. It's just a bunch of limited health points where other professions can nullify an unlimited amount of damage.)

So, in essence, while I can't agree with your analysis, I agree that there is a lot of work needed on the necromancer in order for him to stop being seen as an OP profession by other professions when he is pit against them.

[KrHome.1920]

Reaper is simple: Marauder/Demolisher Spite/SR/Reaper is the most effective basis and this basis means: BURST! End of story.

If you want to mess around with Blood Magic or Curses: go for Scourge or even Core. Reaper does not offer viable variation in its playstyle. Offensive Blood Magic (dagger, warhorn, condi celanse) cripples the damage and defensive Blood Magic (heal, revive) misses the point as the spec is all about melee pressure. Curses wastes a whole traitline for weakness and a few more unreliable (because of the delayed impact of RS2 and WS) corrupts. Death Magic is not worth mentioning.

On that Reaper base build your chances against various encounters are for 100% determined by the mix of your 3 utility skills:Spellbreaker: Corrupt Boon, Spectral Armor, Spectral WalkCondi Mesmer: Suffer!, Well of Power, Plague Signet (yes you need that overkill in condi cleanse, but then you will succeed)Guardian: NCSY!, Spectral Armor, Spectral Walk...Exception: open field hardcounters: LB-Ranger, Rifle-Deadeye: break LOS or die!

That's the only positive thing I can say about Reaper these days: Utility skills are game changers! So technically we have options. The QoL change in the last balance patch that lets us change utility skills when they are on cooldown were great in this context. I have to change my utility skills every few minutes to pull an acceptable amount of competitiveness out of the spec.

[Nimon.7840]

@foste.3098 said:they nerfed it for the exact same reason chill of death was nerfed, and why Charged Mists for revenant got reworked: they want passive and no animation burst traits to be less effective.This trait was not exactly a passive proc but it had no animation, and no way for anyone to know when the necro will pop shroud and chunk you.

As an aside i expect Primal Echoes for druid to get reworked as well since it is a hard cc with no tell in the same vein spiteful spirit is a no tell attack.

You will also have no clue, if an invisible Charakter Like thief is coming to oneshot backstab you. That's really no argument.

[Milan.9035]

"The issue is that your theory relie on a basis where the reaper is dealing massively more damage than other profession when in fact the reaper, even with it's 600 ferocity buff can't even dream of reaching the damage potential of other professions."

Speaking just in pvp i believe no one come close to the burst a reqper can do. You can jump on a point and drop 14k aoe on everyone very easy. I cant even imagine the numbers you can do with wvw stats.

This change was pointless in the end and has no real effect on necro in pvp or wvw.

[Acyk.9671]

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[Anchoku.8142]

It is past time to get rid of traits that only proc when the Necro or opponent is low on health.

[Daquan.2387]

Dang, Spiteful Spirit was epic in wvw... way more useful than Close to Death. Dropping my dmg down from 5k per hit to 2.5k per hit.... pfffffttttttttttt