TwiceDead.1963 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Title. Help me out, you wizards, you... Optimizing my builds right now. I need to know how to hit 100% WITHOUT using any boons of my own. EDIT: Think I found my answer. 2073 precision seems to be the number I have to hit before spotters, fury and banners to get 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Sephylon.4938 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Depends on the class. Each class has atleast 1 trait that boosts its crit chance. Example being decimate defences, righteous instincts, twin fangs, danger time etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

rng.1024 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 It's easy :)There's no need going further than 80% if you play alone, as fury will cap it.You have 5% base crit chanceSigil of accuracy gives you 7% moreEven if you don't trait for it or slot a rune, this means you'll need:80-5-7=6868×21 = 2428 points in precision.If we add a precision rune it's simply:2428-175= 2253, which is easily doable with assasins gear or get very close with ascended marauder/zerker with traits and other food/utility buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Schnuschnu.9857 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 @"TwiceDead.1963" said:Title. Help me out, you wizards, you... Optimizing my builds right now. I need to know how to hit 100% WITHOUT using any boons of my own. EDIT: Think I found my answer. 2073 precision seems to be the number I have to hit before spotters, fury and banners to get 100%. This heavily depends on the class und build you are using. Guards can gain 60% (up to 75% for 1h weapons) critical rate just from using Radiance. Renegades can get 73% from Roiling Mists (Invocation) and Brutal Momentum (Renegade). Also team comp is important. Have you access to perma fury, banners, spotter? Also also runes, sigil, food und stat conversions. The question is simply to complex to give an simple answer without knowing details. Also 100% crit chance is not needed as it depends what you have to sacrifice for this crit rate (stats).This wiki site (Average damage increase) might also be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

TwiceDead.1963 Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share Posted November 9, 2018 @Schnuschnu.9857 said:@TwiceDead.1963 said:Title. Help me out, you wizards, you... Optimizing my builds right now. I need to know how to hit 100% WITHOUT using any boons of my own. EDIT: Think I found my answer. 2073 precision seems to be the number I have to hit before spotters, fury and banners to get 100%. This heavily depends on the class und build you are using. Guards can gain 60% (up to 75% for 1h weapons) critical rate just from using Radiance. Renegades can get 73% from Roiling Mists (Invocation) and Brutal Momentum (Renegade). Also team comp is important. Have you access to perma fury, banners, spotter? Also also runes, sigil, food und stat conversions. The question is simply to complex to give an simple answer without knowing details. Also 100% crit chance is not needed as it depends what you have to sacrifice for this crit rate (stats).This wiki site (Average damage increase) might also be interesting. @Sephylon.4938 said:Depends on the class. Each class has atleast 1 trait that boosts its crit chance. Example being decimate defences, righteous instincts, twin fangs, danger time etcYeah, but... Here's what I said in my first post:@TwiceDead.1963 said:Title. Help me out, you wizards, you... Optimizing my builds right now. I need to know how to hit 100% ----> WITHOUT using any boons of my own. <-----EDIT: Think I found my answer. 2073 precision seems to be the number I have to hit before spotters, fury and banners to get 100%. So I really don't want to know how to hit 100% if I have crit-chance sources of my own. I want to know how I can hit 100% when everybody else buffs me. I know you're trying to help, but that doesn't tell me what I want to know. @rng.1024 said:It's easy :)Even if you don't trait for it or slot a rune, this means you'll need:80-5-7=6868×21 = 2428 points in precision.This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Cyninja.2954 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 @TwiceDead.1963 said:@Schnuschnu.9857 said:@TwiceDead.1963 said:Title. Help me out, you wizards, you... Optimizing my builds right now. I need to know how to hit 100% WITHOUT using any boons of my own. EDIT: Think I found my answer. 2073 precision seems to be the number I have to hit before spotters, fury and banners to get 100%. This heavily depends on the class und build you are using. Guards can gain 60% (up to 75% for 1h weapons) critical rate just from using Radiance. Renegades can get 73% from Roiling Mists (Invocation) and Brutal Momentum (Renegade). Also team comp is important. Have you access to perma fury, banners, spotter? Also also runes, sigil, food und stat conversions. The question is simply to complex to give an simple answer without knowing details. Also 100% crit chance is not needed as it depends what you have to sacrifice for this crit rate (stats).This wiki site (Average damage increase) might also be interesting. @Sephylon.4938 said:Depends on the class. Each class has atleast 1 trait that boosts its crit chance. Example being decimate defences, righteous instincts, twin fangs, danger time etcYeah, but... Here's what I said in my first post:@TwiceDead.1963 said:Title. Help me out, you wizards, you... Optimizing my builds right now. I need to know how to hit 100% ----> WITHOUT using any boons of my own. <-----EDIT: Think I found my answer. 2073 precision seems to be the number I have to hit before spotters, fury and banners to get 100%. So I really don't want to know how to hit 100% if I have crit-chance sources of my own. I want to know how I can hit 100% when everybody else buffs me. I know you're trying to help, but that doesn't tell me what I want to know. @rng.1024 said:It's easy :)Even if you don't trait for it or slot a rune, this means you'll need:80-5-7=6868×21 = 2428 points in precision.This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you :) You do realize though that the math rng.1024 did was for reaching 100% crit WITH fury boon right?80 (80% crit chance desired) - 5 (base crit chance) - 7 (Sigil of Accuracy) = 68 (68% crit chance with base crit chance and Sigil of Accuracy)Thus if you wanted to reach 100% crit without boons you would have to calculate:100 - 5 - 7 = 8888 x 21 = 2848 (base 1000 being in there)Now this does not take into account which class you play and any traits you might be using which increase crit chance beside boons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

rng.1024 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 No worries, with a party:Buffs from others:Fury (20%)Traited Banner of Discipline (170 precision)Spotter (100 precision)Buffs from gear:Sigil of Accuracy (7%)So you want to cap at 80%, so with fury you have 100% chance so no stats go to waste and you can put them into more damage instead. So let's deduct:100% (max crit chance) - 20% (fury)- 7% (sigil) - 5% (base crit chance) = 68% needed.Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.Time to incorporate the party buffs onto this value:2428 (current precision) - 170 (banner) - 100 (spotter) = 2158 points needed in precision to reach 100% crit chance.Time for profession specific bonuses:Ele:With Signet of Fire (2158-180=1978)With Lightning Hammer (2158-180=1978)With both (2158-180-180=1798)Thief:With Signet of Agility (2158-180=1978)Warrior:With Signet of Fury passive (2158-180=1978)With Signet of Fury Active (2158-360=1798)With traited banner (2158-(255-170 since already accounted for)85=2073)With traited banner and passive signet(2158-85-180=1893)Why not other modifiers?These values are useful in order to achieve an easy constant 100% crit rate for all classes in a regular raid/fractal scenario.There are other benefits, like thief's precision when under quickness, interrupt sigils and the like, but they sometimes don't have 100% uptime and therefore can't be relied upon in every group.Further calculations:If there are other flat crit chance modifiers you want to calculate, remember to subtract the 1000 base precision first before calculating percentages. Example:A guardian with the trait "Righteous Instincts" that give him 50% extra crit chance when under the effect of retaliation.We already calculated above that the generic class will need 2158 precision with party buffs to reach 100% crit chance.You calculate this by first subtracting the base precision (2158-1000=1158), then apply the percentage (1158×0,5=579) then add the base value again so it fits with the hero panel (579+1000=1579). A guardian with the buffs only need 1579 precision to get 100% crit chance. Remember the minor traits too, like 10% crit chance on burning enemies, 15% with one handed weapons - just add these to the percentage (here 0,5-0,1-0,15=0,25, so with those modifiers you'll only need 1158*0,25~290+1000= 1290 points in precision.Just post if you have questions, even better for a specific class and I can tailor a value for you if need be :) Edit: If you have a rune with 175 precision, use (2158-175=) 1983 as the generic value before you subtract the signet modifiers to see how much precision you'll need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Robban.1256 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 @"TwiceDead.1963"You want to reach 2305 precision (including food) before buffs which is equal to 67.142857% critchance to get to exaclty 100%Buffs= Fury(=+20%crit/420prec) +Spotter(=100 prec/4.761904%)+Banner of Discipline(170(about 8.095238%)/or (255prec/12,142857%) if you are warrior and using inspiring banner trait (+85)= 32.857143% crit chance.Critical Chance = (Precision - 895) / 21 = Crit Chance %(In other words, Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that).From the above equation it follows that 2995 Precision is enough to reach 100% Critical Chance when fully buffed + all boons)Subtract the amount you get from banner of discipline(170), spotter(100) and fury(20*21=420), and you reach 2305, which is the number we will be aiming for.49.7% base Crit Chance using ALL ascended berserker’s gear.69.8% base Crit Chance using ALL ascended assassin’s gear.Superior Sigil of Accuracy(7%) gives the equivalent of 147 precisionmeaning we will need to aim for 2158 base precision if we are using it.Superior Sigil of Perception stacking increase (+11.90% max/250prec).Source: https://discretize.eu/guides/crit-cap https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Robban.1256 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 @rng.1024 said:Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

rng.1024 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 @Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that). Remember you reach this value before lvl 80 (since attributes cap at 1000 then) meaning you get 105 extra precision at max level - which is 105/21=5% bonus that I took into account before converting crit chance into precision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Schnuschnu.9857 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 @rng.1024 said:Why not other modifiers?These values are useful in order to achieve an easy constant 100% crit rate for all classes in a regular raid/fractal scenario.There are other benefits, like thief's precision when under quickness, interrupt sigils and the like, but they sometimes don't have 100% uptime and therefore can't be relied upon in every group.I would argue that 100% uptime for Lightning Hammer is hard to achieve (other players picking it up, boss has to remain 100% of the time static) and it isn't the optimal dps choice.The Signet of Fury Active should not be listed as it has no 100% uptime, no even worse you lose the passive after the 4sec active and have 80% downtime.I also think you point about reliance on boons (like the quickness example) it a weak point to dismiss other effects. If you go down this route you have to take away fury, spotter, banners. Basically all outside sources. You can't say with 100% certanty that those will be up 100%. That's why personal modifiers are so important. Most of them can be controlled by you. If they have no 100% uptime, that's on you. The other buffs from other players are not under your controll, so they shouldn't be used for 100% uptime calculations according to your own logic. And if 100% crit rate is the way to go for all builds (even power, average damage increase and power calcs are the important points here) is questionable too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Robban.1256 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 @rng.1024 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that). Remember you reach this value before lvl 80 (since attributes cap at 1000 then) meaning you get 105 extra precision at max level - which is 105/21=5% bonus that I took into account before converting crit chance into precision.See my math above pls. Cus your math is wrong. And links if you need proofNote.(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + banner of discipline(8.095238%) +spotter (4.761904%)+fury (20%)= 88.9523% crit chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Cyninja.2954 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 @Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that). Remember you reach this value before lvl 80 (since attributes cap at 1000 then) meaning you get 105 extra precision at max level - which is 105/21=5% bonus that I took into account before converting crit chance into precision.See my math above pls. Cus your math is wrong. And links if you need proofNote.(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + banner of discipline(8.095238%) +spotter (4.761904%)+fury (20%)= 88.9523% crit chance True, at 895 precision crit chance is 0. You reach 895 precision before hitting level 80.Again, at level 80 you have 1,000 base precision without any gear or trait bonuses. Those 105 extra precision are the 5% base crit chance. When Arenanet changed the system way back, this was changed. So yes, while you are technically correct that there is no base crit chance, the fact that you are given free 105 precision above the 895 base accounts for a free 5% crit at level 80.Very easy to check, strip a level 80 character of all stats (gear and traits) and you will see that your base precision is 1,000.EDIT: the wiki even states this:In other words, Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that. Since the minimum value of Precision at level 80 is 1000, this means the minimum Critical Chance at level 80 is 5.0%. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

TwiceDead.1963 Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 @Cyninja.2954 said:@TwiceDead.1963 said:@Schnuschnu.9857 said:@TwiceDead.1963 said:Title. Help me out, you wizards, you... Optimizing my builds right now. I need to know how to hit 100% WITHOUT using any boons of my own. EDIT: Think I found my answer. 2073 precision seems to be the number I have to hit before spotters, fury and banners to get 100%. This heavily depends on the class und build you are using. Guards can gain 60% (up to 75% for 1h weapons) critical rate just from using Radiance. Renegades can get 73% from Roiling Mists (Invocation) and Brutal Momentum (Renegade). Also team comp is important. Have you access to perma fury, banners, spotter? Also also runes, sigil, food und stat conversions. The question is simply to complex to give an simple answer without knowing details. Also 100% crit chance is not needed as it depends what you have to sacrifice for this crit rate (stats).This wiki site (Average damage increase) might also be interesting. @Sephylon.4938 said:Depends on the class. Each class has atleast 1 trait that boosts its crit chance. Example being decimate defences, righteous instincts, twin fangs, danger time etcYeah, but... Here's what I said in my first post:@TwiceDead.1963 said:Title. Help me out, you wizards, you... Optimizing my builds right now. I need to know how to hit 100% ----> WITHOUT using any boons of my own. <-----EDIT: Think I found my answer. 2073 precision seems to be the number I have to hit before spotters, fury and banners to get 100%. So I really don't want to know how to hit 100% if I have crit-chance sources of my own. I want to know how I can hit 100% when everybody else buffs me. I know you're trying to help, but that doesn't tell me what I want to know. @rng.1024 said:It's easy :)Even if you don't trait for it or slot a rune, this means you'll need:80-5-7=6868×21 = 2428 points in precision.This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you :) You do realize though that the math rng.1024 did was for reaching 100% crit WITH fury boon right?Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

rng.1024 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 @Schnuschnu.9857 said:@rng.1024 said:Why not other modifiers?These values are useful in order to achieve an easy constant 100% crit rate for all classes in a regular raid/fractal scenario.There are other benefits, like thief's precision when under quickness, interrupt sigils and the like, but they sometimes don't have 100% uptime and therefore can't be relied upon in every group.I would argue that 100% uptime for Lightning Hammer is hard to achieve (other players picking it up, boss has to remain 100% of the time static) and it isn't the optimal dps choice.The Signet of Fury Active should not be listed as it has no 100% uptime, no even worse you lose the passive after the 4sec active and have 80% downtime.I also think you point about reliance on boons (like the quickness example) it a weak point to dismiss other effects. If you go down this route you have to take away fury, spotter, banners. Basically all outside sources. You can't say with 100% certanty that those will be up 100%. That's why personal modifiers are so important. Most of them can be controlled by you. If they have no 100% uptime, that's on you. The other buffs from other players are not under your controll, so they shouldn't be used for 100% uptime calculations according to your own logic. And if 100% crit rate is the way to go for all builds (even power, average damage increase and power calcs are the important points here) is questionable too. I listed class specific effects (signets and conjures) because at the time we didn't know op's preferred profession. Never stated conjures and active signets have 100% uptime, they are included because you can control when they are used. The reason I then calculate with actives, is in case you can cap out without the fury boon, which is suboptimal.As for other effects: It's a whole lot easier to get a warr and ranger dropping these 2 buffs than it is to get a 100% boon duration chronomancer who knows his rotations (and a party who stick close enough to get them). The banner and spotter don't require active gameplay, and therefore stands to reason they are more easily obtainable in a group. Let's revise the quickness example:Yes a thief can get perma quick on his own. Will he then be able to do damage? No. So he need a chrono or fb. The buff isn't even party wide, why would anyone want to include it in order to cap when you don't have full uptime on yourself? Again suboptimal.According to my own logic only gear, banner, spotter, utility skills and fury can provide a reliable stable 100% crit rate. Taking into account everything else in case the stars align means you're bound to underperform at times since these factors aren't under your control. If your profession is in it for the dps - it won't have 50% boon duration.Please enlighten us on how capping out on a 100% crit-rate is questionable for achieving top dps ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Robban.1256 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 @Cyninja.2954 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that). Remember you reach this value before lvl 80 (since attributes cap at 1000 then) meaning you get 105 extra precision at max level - which is 105/21=5% bonus that I took into account before converting crit chance into precision.See my math above pls. Cus your math is wrong. And links if you need proofNote.(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + banner of discipline(8.095238%) +spotter (4.761904%)+fury (20%)= 88.9523% crit chance True, at 895 precision crit chance is 0. You reach 895 precision before hitting level 80.Again, at level 80 you have 1,000 base precision without any gear or trait bonuses. Those 105 extra precision are the 5% base crit chance. When Arenanet changed the system way back, this was changed. So yes, while you are technically correct that there is no base crit chance, the fact that you are given free 105 precision above the 895 base accounts for a free 5% crit at level 80.Very easy to check, strip a level 80 character of all stats (gear and traits) and you will see that your base precision is 1,000.EDIT: the wiki even states this:In other words, Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that. Since the minimum value of Precision at level 80 is 1000, this means the minimum Critical Chance at level 80 is 5.0%. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PrecisionWith 2073 precision you wont reach 100%. its to little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Cyninja.2954 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 @Robban.1256 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that). Remember you reach this value before lvl 80 (since attributes cap at 1000 then) meaning you get 105 extra precision at max level - which is 105/21=5% bonus that I took into account before converting crit chance into precision.See my math above pls. Cus your math is wrong. And links if you need proofNote.(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + banner of discipline(8.095238%) +spotter (4.761904%)+fury (20%)= 88.9523% crit chance True, at 895 precision crit chance is 0. You reach 895 precision before hitting level 80.Again, at level 80 you have 1,000 base precision without any gear or trait bonuses. Those 105 extra precision are the 5% base crit chance. When Arenanet changed the system way back, this was changed. So yes, while you are technically correct that there is no base crit chance, the fact that you are given free 105 precision above the 895 base accounts for a free 5% crit at level 80.Very easy to check, strip a level 80 character of all stats (gear and traits) and you will see that your base precision is 1,000.EDIT: the wiki even states this:In other words, Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that. Since the minimum value of Precision at level 80 is 1000, this means the minimum Critical Chance at level 80 is 5.0%. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PrecisionWith 2073 precision you wont reach 100%. its to littleYou need to reread what was written and which target values were aimed for.The initial calculation was for reaching 80% crit (which is obvious from the calculation of rng). The later calculations took into account more than just the fury boon.Second, it makes no difference if you calculate from 895 and 0% crit or from 1,000 and 5% crit, mathematically in relations to crit, it's the same.Third, you compare base banner of discipline (170 precision) to inspired banner of discipline (255 precision) which rng was using in his later math. On top of that rng was using 7% crit from a Sigil of Accuracy. These two issues make up the difference in your and his calculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

rng.1024 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 @Cyninja.2954 said:@Robban.1256 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that). Remember you reach this value before lvl 80 (since attributes cap at 1000 then) meaning you get 105 extra precision at max level - which is 105/21=5% bonus that I took into account before converting crit chance into precision.See my math above pls. Cus your math is wrong. And links if you need proofNote.(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + banner of discipline(8.095238%) +spotter (4.761904%)+fury (20%)= 88.9523% crit chance True, at 895 precision crit chance is 0. You reach 895 precision before hitting level 80.Again, at level 80 you have 1,000 base precision without any gear or trait bonuses. Those 105 extra precision are the 5% base crit chance. When Arenanet changed the system way back, this was changed. So yes, while you are technically correct that there is no base crit chance, the fact that you are given free 105 precision above the 895 base accounts for a free 5% crit at level 80.Very easy to check, strip a level 80 character of all stats (gear and traits) and you will see that your base precision is 1,000.EDIT: the wiki even states this:In other words, Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that. Since the minimum value of Precision at level 80 is 1000, this means the minimum Critical Chance at level 80 is 5.0%. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PrecisionWith 2073 precision you wont reach 100%. its to littleYou need to reread what was written and which target values were aimed for.The initial calculation was for reaching 80% crit (which is obvious from the calculation of rng). The later calculations took into account more than just the fury boon.Second, it makes no difference if you calculate from 895 and 0% crit or from 1,000 and 5% crit, mathematically in relations to crit, it's the same.Third, you compare base banner of discipline (170 precision) to inspired banner of discipline (255 precision) which rng was using in his later math. On top of that rng was using 7% crit from a Sigil of Accuracy. These two issues make up the difference in your and his calculation.You deserve a cookie! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Schnuschnu.9857 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 @rng.1024 said:@Schnuschnu.9857 said:@rng.1024 said:Why not other modifiers?These values are useful in order to achieve an easy constant 100% crit rate for all classes in a regular raid/fractal scenario.There are other benefits, like thief's precision when under quickness, interrupt sigils and the like, but they sometimes don't have 100% uptime and therefore can't be relied upon in every group.I would argue that 100% uptime for Lightning Hammer is hard to achieve (other players picking it up, boss has to remain 100% of the time static) and it isn't the optimal dps choice.The Signet of Fury Active should not be listed as it has no 100% uptime, no even worse you lose the passive after the 4sec active and have 80% downtime.I also think you point about reliance on boons (like the quickness example) it a weak point to dismiss other effects. If you go down this route you have to take away fury, spotter, banners. Basically all outside sources. You can't say with 100% certanty that those will be up 100%. That's why personal modifiers are so important. Most of them can be controlled by you. If they have no 100% uptime, that's on you. The other buffs from other players are not under your controll, so they shouldn't be used for 100% uptime calculations according to your own logic. And if 100% crit rate is the way to go for all builds (even power, average damage increase and power calcs are the important points here) is questionable too. I listed class specific effects (signets and conjures) because at the time we didn't know op's preferred profession. Never stated conjures and active signets have 100% uptime, they are included because you can control when they are used. The reason I then calculate with actives, is in case you can cap out without the fury boon, which is suboptimal.As for other effects: It's a whole lot easier to get a warr and ranger dropping these 2 buffs than it is to get a 100% boon duration chronomancer who knows his rotations (and a party who stick close enough to get them). The banner and spotter don't require active gameplay, and therefore stands to reason they are more easily obtainable in a group. Let's revise the quickness example:Yes a thief can get perma quick on his own. Will he then be able to do damage? No. So he need a chrono or fb. The buff isn't even party wide, why would anyone want to include it in order to cap when you don't have full uptime on yourself? Again suboptimal.I never said something about the thief getting the quickness itself. That would be wasted potential. But you mentioned FB yourself. And getting 100% quickness uptime as a FB isn't really that hard. Pressing 2 buttons every couple seconds and maybe a third, depending on boonduration can't be really messed up. But that's the thing, yes the buff are easy to get, this means if you have this classes, always. And this is the problem. What if you don't have them. Either you take optimal conditions into account (right classes, 100% uptime on relevant buffs) or you don't. That's my problem with your logic. According to my own logic only gear, banner, spotter, utility skills and fury can provide a reliable stable 100% crit rate. Taking into account everything else in case the stars align means you're bound to underperform at times since these factors aren't under your control. If your profession is in it for the dps - it won't have 50% boon duration.Please enlighten us on how capping out on a 100% crit-rate is questionable for achieving top dps ^^It depends on what you need to sacrifice for the 100% crit-rate. If you take more precision oriented gear just to meet 100% critrate you might miss out on power/ condi dmg. Depending on power calcs/condi application this might lower the damage. Also by taking utilities just to meet 100% critrate you might miss out on powerful abilities which would boost your dps far more. Coming close to 100% sure, but getting 100% at all costs is questionable especially on condi builds as crit procs are not frequent enough to put 100% above all else in priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Stand The Wall.6987 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 idk bout yall but if I can get 90% crit with fury then I call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

rng.1024 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 @Schnuschnu.9857 said:@rng.1024 said:@Schnuschnu.9857 said:@rng.1024 said:Why not other modifiers?These values are useful in order to achieve an easy constant 100% crit rate for all classes in a regular raid/fractal scenario.There are other benefits, like thief's precision when under quickness, interrupt sigils and the like, but they sometimes don't have 100% uptime and therefore can't be relied upon in every group.I would argue that 100% uptime for Lightning Hammer is hard to achieve (other players picking it up, boss has to remain 100% of the time static) and it isn't the optimal dps choice.The Signet of Fury Active should not be listed as it has no 100% uptime, no even worse you lose the passive after the 4sec active and have 80% downtime.I also think you point about reliance on boons (like the quickness example) it a weak point to dismiss other effects. If you go down this route you have to take away fury, spotter, banners. Basically all outside sources. You can't say with 100% certanty that those will be up 100%. That's why personal modifiers are so important. Most of them can be controlled by you. If they have no 100% uptime, that's on you. The other buffs from other players are not under your controll, so they shouldn't be used for 100% uptime calculations according to your own logic. And if 100% crit rate is the way to go for all builds (even power, average damage increase and power calcs are the important points here) is questionable too. I listed class specific effects (signets and conjures) because at the time we didn't know op's preferred profession. Never stated conjures and active signets have 100% uptime, they are included because you can control when they are used. The reason I then calculate with actives, is in case you can cap out without the fury boon, which is suboptimal.As for other effects: It's a whole lot easier to get a warr and ranger dropping these 2 buffs than it is to get a 100% boon duration chronomancer who knows his rotations (and a party who stick close enough to get them). The banner and spotter don't require active gameplay, and therefore stands to reason they are more easily obtainable in a group. Let's revise the quickness example:Yes a thief can get perma quick on his own. Will he then be able to do damage? No. So he need a chrono or fb. The buff isn't even party wide, why would anyone want to include it in order to cap when you don't have full uptime on yourself? Again suboptimal.I never said something about the thief getting the quickness itself. That would be wasted potential. But you mentioned FB yourself. And getting 100% quickness uptime as a FB isn't really that hard. Pressing 2 buttons every couple seconds and maybe a third, depending on boonduration can't be really messed up. But that's the thing, yes the buff are easy to get, this means if you have this classes, always. And this is the problem. What if you don't have them. Either you take optimal conditions into account (right classes, 100% uptime on relevant buffs) or you don't. That's my problem with your logic. According to my own logic only gear, banner, spotter, utility skills and fury can provide a reliable stable 100% crit rate. Taking into account everything else in case the stars align means you're bound to underperform at times since these factors aren't under your control. If your profession is in it for the dps - it won't have 50% boon duration.Please enlighten us on how capping out on a 100% crit-rate is questionable for achieving top dps ^^It depends on what you need to sacrifice for the 100% crit-rate. If you take more precision oriented gear just to meet 100% critrate you might miss out on power/ condi dmg. Depending on power calcs/condi application this might lower the damage. Also by taking utilities just to meet 100% critrate you might miss out on powerful abilities which would boost your dps far more. Coming close to 100% sure, but getting 100% at all costs is questionable especially on condi builds as crit procs are not frequent enough to put 100% above all else in priority. Again, 2 passive buffs with a huge range that require you only to stay close vs. gear dependent usage of skills cast by a 2nd party with their own limitations. Anyone can plop down a banner and equip a trait, asking for more will inevitably leave you short. I'm not arguing that this is hard - even if we assume every pug group got a guardian, there will be some you can't rely on. If you want to argue opinions, I'm perfectly fine with you feeling it's all or nothing - if that's the case disregard my math and substitute your own for the benefit of all ^^The whole point of giving precision numbers was so that you could invest as little points into precision as possible for more power. 100% critrate coupled with full minor ferocity stat will always yield higher damage over time.Why on earth would a condi build care about precision? In PvE there are no cleanses, so expertise is king. If the few procs you get for precision is the bulk of your damage, then you are doing it wrong. Looking at the scenario we created above, without any investment in precision you'd already (255(banner)+100(spotter)=355/21=16,9%+5%(lvl80 crit chance)+20%(fury)~42%) crit every 2,5 hit, and since most trait procs have an internal cooldown of more than (let's be generous) 3 seconds, any further investment in precision will be a waste. 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Robban.1256 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 @Cyninja.2954 said:@Robban.1256 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that). Remember you reach this value before lvl 80 (since attributes cap at 1000 then) meaning you get 105 extra precision at max level - which is 105/21=5% bonus that I took into account before converting crit chance into precision.See my math above pls. Cus your math is wrong. And links if you need proofNote.(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + banner of discipline(8.095238%) +spotter (4.761904%)+fury (20%)= 88.9523% crit chance True, at 895 precision crit chance is 0. You reach 895 precision before hitting level 80.Again, at level 80 you have 1,000 base precision without any gear or trait bonuses. Those 105 extra precision are the 5% base crit chance. When Arenanet changed the system way back, this was changed. So yes, while you are technically correct that there is no base crit chance, the fact that you are given free 105 precision above the 895 base accounts for a free 5% crit at level 80.Very easy to check, strip a level 80 character of all stats (gear and traits) and you will see that your base precision is 1,000.EDIT: the wiki even states this:In other words, Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that. Since the minimum value of Precision at level 80 is 1000, this means the minimum Critical Chance at level 80 is 5.0%. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PrecisionWith 2073 precision you wont reach 100%. its to littleYou need to reread what was written and which target values were aimed for.The initial calculation was for reaching 80% crit (which is obvious from the calculation of rng). The later calculations took into account more than just the fury boon.Second, it makes no difference if you calculate from 895 and 0% crit or from 1,000 and 5% crit, mathematically in relations to crit, it's the same.Third, you compare base banner of discipline (170 precision) to inspired banner of discipline (255 precision) which rng was using in his later math. On top of that rng was using 7% crit from a Sigil of Accuracy. These two issues make up the difference in your and his calculation.Inspiring Battle Standard stats increase only applies to you not allies. Which means you need to be warrior to benefit from it, and in some places for example fractals its better to have Sigil of Impact (+10% damage vs stunned or knocked down foes) to benefit from frequently broken defiance bars.And from the wiki page as you linked ''At level 80, the formula relating Precision to Critical Chance via the Hero Panel is:Critical Chance = (Precision - 895) / 21''Warrior player(including food)= (2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + Banner of Discipline with Inspiring battle standard(255prec/12,142857%) +Spotter (100/4.761904%)+fury (20x21=420/20%)+ Sigil of Accuracy(147/+7%)=2995 Precision/ 100% Crit chancePlayers who can not benefit from banner trait(including food)=(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + Banner of Discipline (170/8.095238%) +Spotter (100/4.761904%)+Fury (20x21=420/20%)+ Sigil of Accuracy(147/+7%)= 2910 Precision/95.952380% Crit chancePlayers who can not benefit from banner trait(including food)=(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + Banner of Discipline (170/8.095238%) +Spotter (100/4.761904%)+Fury (20x21=420/20%)+Sigil of Perception stacking increase (+11.90% max/250prec)= 3013 Precision/100.857142% Crit chance which is to much.Players who can not benefit from banner trait (including food)2305 precision=(2305-895)/21=67.142857% crit chance + Fury(=+20%crit/420prec) +Spotter(=100 prec/4.761904%)+Banner of Discipline(170(about 8.095238%)= 2995 Precision/100% Crit Chancei.e ( 2995precision-895)/21= 100%.Before the Spotter nerf (May 08, 2018) when it did give 150 precision all that matters is that you did hit 2255 Precision, but now its at 100 precision which leaves us to where we are today at 2305 Precision (before buffs)Heres an video before the May 8th 2018 patch (when we would want to have 2255)- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Robban.1256 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 @Schnuschnu.9857 said:@rng.1024 said:@Schnuschnu.9857 said:@rng.1024 said:Why not other modifiers?These values are useful in order to achieve an easy constant 100% crit rate for all classes in a regular raid/fractal scenario.There are other benefits, like thief's precision when under quickness, interrupt sigils and the like, but they sometimes don't have 100% uptime and therefore can't be relied upon in every group.I would argue that 100% uptime for Lightning Hammer is hard to achieve (other players picking it up, boss has to remain 100% of the time static) and it isn't the optimal dps choice.The Signet of Fury Active should not be listed as it has no 100% uptime, no even worse you lose the passive after the 4sec active and have 80% downtime.I also think you point about reliance on boons (like the quickness example) it a weak point to dismiss other effects. If you go down this route you have to take away fury, spotter, banners. Basically all outside sources. You can't say with 100% certanty that those will be up 100%. That's why personal modifiers are so important. Most of them can be controlled by you. If they have no 100% uptime, that's on you. The other buffs from other players are not under your controll, so they shouldn't be used for 100% uptime calculations according to your own logic. And if 100% crit rate is the way to go for all builds (even power, average damage increase and power calcs are the important points here) is questionable too. I listed class specific effects (signets and conjures) because at the time we didn't know op's preferred profession. Never stated conjures and active signets have 100% uptime, they are included because you can control when they are used. The reason I then calculate with actives, is in case you can cap out without the fury boon, which is suboptimal.As for other effects: It's a whole lot easier to get a warr and ranger dropping these 2 buffs than it is to get a 100% boon duration chronomancer who knows his rotations (and a party who stick close enough to get them). The banner and spotter don't require active gameplay, and therefore stands to reason they are more easily obtainable in a group. Let's revise the quickness example:Yes a thief can get perma quick on his own. Will he then be able to do damage? No. So he need a chrono or fb. The buff isn't even party wide, why would anyone want to include it in order to cap when you don't have full uptime on yourself? Again suboptimal.I never said something about the thief getting the quickness itself. That would be wasted potential. But you mentioned FB yourself. And getting 100% quickness uptime as a FB isn't really that hard. Pressing 2 buttons every couple seconds and maybe a third, depending on boonduration can't be really messed up. But that's the thing, yes the buff are easy to get, this means if you have this classes, always. And this is the problem. What if you don't have them. Either you take optimal conditions into account (right classes, 100% uptime on relevant buffs) or you don't. That's my problem with your logic. According to my own logic only gear, banner, spotter, utility skills and fury can provide a reliable stable 100% crit rate. Taking into account everything else in case the stars align means you're bound to underperform at times since these factors aren't under your control. If your profession is in it for the dps - it won't have 50% boon duration.Please enlighten us on how capping out on a 100% crit-rate is questionable for achieving top dps ^^It depends on what you need to sacrifice for the 100% crit-rate. If you take more precision oriented gear just to meet 100% critrate you might miss out on power/ condi dmg. Depending on power calcs/condi application this might lower the damage. Also by taking utilities just to meet 100% critrate you might miss out on powerful abilities which would boost your dps far more. Coming close to 100% sure, but getting 100% at all costs is questionable especially on condi builds as crit procs are not frequent enough to put 100% above all else in priority. @Cyninja.2954 @rng.1024Yeah only for power based build/proffesion you want to have 100% crit chance, Condition Damage cannot critically strike.Consequently, condition damage gains no benefit from precision or critical damage modifiers.A character's chance of critical cannot become higher than 100%.For condi builds you want to have 100%condi duration + 555 expertise.For every 15 points of expertise, you gain 1% condition duration.For every 15 points of concentration, you gain 1% boon duration.Power based builds= Its possible that some proffesion will get slightly higher affective power with less than 100% crit chance however from quality of life perspective having exatly 100% is very desirable in even if potentially the dps is 0.000001% sub optimal , many proffesions have traits thats convert certain precent of stats X to stats Y, says convert Precision to Ferocity, your stats from gear and food contribute to this but not from signets or buffs. 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Schnuschnu.9857 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 @rng.1024 said:Why on earth would a condi build care about precision?That's the point. You wanted to know why 100% crit rate could be questionable (you made no difference between condi or power in your posts). But I'm out of this discussion. It leads to nothing of value. Thank you for your time anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Cyninja.2954 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 @Robban.1256 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Robban.1256 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that). Remember you reach this value before lvl 80 (since attributes cap at 1000 then) meaning you get 105 extra precision at max level - which is 105/21=5% bonus that I took into account before converting crit chance into precision.See my math above pls. Cus your math is wrong. And links if you need proofNote.(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + banner of discipline(8.095238%) +spotter (4.761904%)+fury (20%)= 88.9523% crit chance True, at 895 precision crit chance is 0. You reach 895 precision before hitting level 80.Again, at level 80 you have 1,000 base precision without any gear or trait bonuses. Those 105 extra precision are the 5% base crit chance. When Arenanet changed the system way back, this was changed. So yes, while you are technically correct that there is no base crit chance, the fact that you are given free 105 precision above the 895 base accounts for a free 5% crit at level 80.Very easy to check, strip a level 80 character of all stats (gear and traits) and you will see that your base precision is 1,000.EDIT: the wiki even states this:In other words, Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that. Since the minimum value of Precision at level 80 is 1000, this means the minimum Critical Chance at level 80 is 5.0%. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PrecisionWith 2073 precision you wont reach 100%. its to littleYou need to reread what was written and which target values were aimed for.The initial calculation was for reaching 80% crit (which is obvious from the calculation of rng). The later calculations took into account more than just the fury boon.Second, it makes no difference if you calculate from 895 and 0% crit or from 1,000 and 5% crit, mathematically in relations to crit, it's the same.Third, you compare base banner of discipline (170 precision) to inspired banner of discipline (255 precision) which rng was using in his later math. On top of that rng was using 7% crit from a Sigil of Accuracy. These two issues make up the difference in your and his calculation.Inspiring Battle Standard stats increase only applies to you not allies. Which means you need to be warrior to benefit from it, and in some places for example fractals its better to have Sigil of Impact (+10% damage vs stunned or knocked down foes) to benefit from frequently broken defiance bars.And from the wiki page as you linked ''At level 80, the formula relating Precision to Critical Chance via the Hero Panel is:Critical Chance = (Precision - 895) / 21''Warrior player(including food)= (2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + Banner of Discipline with Inspiring battle standard(255prec/12,142857%) +Spotter (100/4.761904%)+fury (20x21=420/20%)+ Sigil of Accuracy(147/+7%)=2995 Precision/ 100% Crit chancePlayers who can not benefit from banner trait(including food)=(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + Banner of Discipline (170/8.095238%) +Spotter (100/4.761904%)+Fury (20x21=420/20%)+ Sigil of Accuracy(147/+7%)= 2910 Precision/95.952380% Crit chancePlayers who can not benefit from banner trait(including food)=(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + Banner of Discipline (170/8.095238%) +Spotter (100/4.761904%)+Fury (20x21=420/20%)+Sigil of Perception stacking increase (+11.90% max/250prec)= 3013 Precision/100.857142% Crit chance which is to much.Players who can not benefit from banner trait (including food)2305 precision=(2305-895)/21=67.142857% crit chance + Fury(=+20%crit/420prec) +Spotter(=100 prec/4.761904%)+Banner of Discipline(170(about 8.095238%)= 2995 Precision/100% Crit Chancei.e ( 2995precision-895)/21= 100%.Before the Spotter nerf (May 08, 2018) when it did give 150 precision all that matters is that you did hit 2255 Precision, but now its at 100 precision which leaves us to where we are today at 2305 Precision (before buffs)Heres an video before the May 8th 2018 patch (when we would want to have 2255)- You keep saying the exact same thing, which aside from the mistake on the banner of discipline for other characters beside warrior from rng and my side, is the same thing rng has been doing the math on.rng did the math WITH 7% crit from a Sigil of Accuracy and based on the 1,000 precision each character has at level 80 (which he refered to as base 5% crit). Since you like to point to the wiki but fail to read what I wrote from it, once again:In other words, Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that. Since the minimum value of Precision at level 80 is 1000, this means the minimum Critical Chance at level 80 is 5.0%.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PrecisionYou can NOT drop below 1,000 precision. It's the base value at level 80. You are forced to have a base 5% crit, which was accounted for earlier. You repeating the 895 precision being 0% crit does nothing to change this, on the contrary, it simply proves that 1,000 precision is accountable for 5% base crit.Nobody is disputing the 2995 precision needed for 100% crit. It does not apply though once you factor in 7% crit Sigil and other effects which reduce this number, which was again mentioned in every post. The only mistake was the added precision from the warrior banner affecting other classes.You said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:@Robban.1256 said:@rng.1024 said:Every 21 points in precision raises your crit chance by 1%, so right now you'll need 68*21 = 1428 + 1000 (base precision at lvl 80) = 2428 precision.False, here from wiki how to calc: Critical Chance is 0% when Precision is 895, and increases by 1% for every 21 Precision above that). Remember you reach this value before lvl 80 (since attributes cap at 1000 then) meaning you get 105 extra precision at max level - which is 105/21=5% bonus that I took into account before converting crit chance into precision.See my math above pls. Cus your math is wrong. And links if you need proofNote.(2073precision-895)/21=56.0952% crit chance + banner of discipline(8.095238%) +spotter (4.761904%)+fury (20%)= 88.9523% crit chance Which at that point was not wrong, you simply missed the Sigil of Accuracy and the fact that the calculation was meant for 80% crit (and thus a fury boon). The banner mistake came in later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

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