How To Counter Scourge

[Saiyan.1704]

@"JayAction.9056" said:"Avoid every single AOE scourge attack and land 20 attacks in a row and you win easy."

What's the problem guys?

I landed 19... R.I.P!!

[Mr Godlike.6098]

@Razor.6392 said:

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:Amazing...conclusion of our forum is every single necro in game should be in top 10...instead in lower plat didn't seen scourge that could survive few seconds alone on node...

i have seen necros farmed by rife deadeye's spaming buttons...i have seen necros dying to fresh weaver...build with almost 0 zero condi cleanse...i have seen necros dying to pets...i have seen team with 3 necro's losing to team with 3 rangers...i have seen necro calling me cancer cause i didn't want to stand in all his shadesi have seen necro's rushing far, alone at first split and being surprised that everybody on his team is dead on midi have seen necro's going rambo style against 2-3 players and dyingI have seen necro's stubbornly staying on node and tanking mender's druid staff 1 till they die...

Scourge is efficient because everyone below plat thinks that you should always fight on node no matter how many aoe's are on it...Like caping node is more important then staying alive!

Saying that you saw deadeyes, fresh air weavers and power rangers eradicate scourges confirms that you saw them in bronze-silver rank.

Because passed platinum none of these 3 professions are actually viable to be played.Their scourge countering ability doesn't justify their use in high leagues unfortunately.

Staying alive is good yeah, but holding the points is better unfortunately.

We are not saying that scourge cannot be killed at all, but if your team has scourge and the enemy doesn't, you win at 80%. This is a pretty cheap advantage.

In skyhammer if you are capping the hammer and arrives two scourge who owns all the platform with shades what you do? Escape maybe if you react fast enough but they get the hammer and win probably, sams in temple of silent storm, the 3 cap buff.

Unfortunately for you I started in mid Gold and right now I am in plat. My point is: 90% of scoruges are garbage in 1v1, rotations , map awareness and they need firebrand life support to not die alone on the map.

About your example. Why you have to tank 2 necros on the node? There no other fight that can you +1 for easy kill and cap different node? Escape? Scoruge is f**** slow can't shadow step to you or chase you. Everything in this meta besides firebrand have mobility skills! And the best question...no matter what you fight on node...how you ever hoped to decap a node with 2 players on it?

Also about holding points - you never ever seen once in your life any proleauge match or At Monthly finals stream. Dead players are useless no matter how long their hold point. Dead players means that thier team will be outnumbered, easy killed and then they will be snowballed, snowballed and snowballed.

Just because 90% of scourge players are bronzies who got carried by their spec doesn't mean it's balanced lmfao. Have you seen what a necro main can do on scourge? It really isn't easy to beat one, even on their counters. 6-4 matchup at best.

Dude I didn't ever ever said that scourge is balanced... to be precise in ANY post on this forum! For F sake how I as Ele player I could say anything is fairly balanced in this game!? Can you imagine how much effort I need to make to carry as Ele on ANY build when literally dead monkey can be efficient as scourge? But sorry I don't act like this is excuse to not play good. Like me dyeing against scourge has nothing to do with my skill.

[eYe.7483]

I've been playing unranked for some time now (only played ranked in Seasons 1-3, in whatever the division just below the top was) and prefer to play Necro. I've found that after POF a Vanilla Condi Necro was a very hard class to keep alive without support unless someone is dumb enough to stand in plague for too long. Against ranged, especially those that keep stealthing and who never close until your health is down, it's hard to mount consistent condition pressure; against classes with lots of CC (especially when multiple one's are focusing) it's tough to get spells off due to so many interrupts. There is only so much stability a basic Necro has, plus he has no reflects. I recall my first encounter with a Scourge ended poorly but I discovered that standing in his sand field seemed to cause the most damage to me. I also learned that if I separated to scepter range and consistently pressure him with conditions that he didn't survive long. It's just helpful to stay out of his sand as much as possible and interrupt whenever your can. If I went in close, it was in shroud and only when his health at least halfway down.

Having said this I finally picked up scourge today because of the issues with stability and because the majority of time a scourge would make a bigger difference than a necro for the team I was playing with; I felt like I wasn't doing my share as a scourge would more often than not have the top damage and kill stats. I've tried condition scourge with boon corrupts on 3 games so far. Might also give the power version a try to see how that feels. I also find scourge v scourge fights to be interesting as a new scourge player. I think it's just a question of who can keep the barriers up and the conditions off the best, but I'm still new at this. It does seem to drop multiple opponents fairly quickly though and the downed pressure is great. I haven't mastered it at all yet but I seem to be able to survive a lot better than on a Necro.

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:Amazing...conclusion of our forum is every single necro in game should be in top 10...instead in lower plat didn't seen scourge that could survive few seconds alone on node...

i have seen necros farmed by rife deadeye's spaming buttons...i have seen necros dying to fresh weaver...build with almost 0 zero condi cleanse...i have seen necros dying to pets...i have seen team with 3 necro's losing to team with 3 rangers...i have seen necro calling me cancer cause i didn't want to stand in all his shadesi have seen necro's rushing far, alone at first split and being surprised that everybody on his team is dead on midi have seen necro's going rambo style against 2-3 players and dyingI have seen necro's stubbornly staying on node and tanking mender's druid staff 1 till they die...

Scourge is efficient because everyone below plat thinks that you should always fight on node no matter how many aoe's are on it...Like caping node is more important then staying alive!

Saying that you saw deadeyes, fresh air weavers and power rangers eradicate scourges confirms that you saw them in bronze-silver rank.

Because passed platinum none of these 3 professions are actually viable to be played.Their scourge countering ability doesn't justify their use in high leagues unfortunately.

Staying alive is good yeah, but holding the points is better unfortunately.

We are not saying that scourge cannot be killed at all, but if your team has scourge and the enemy doesn't, you win at 80%. This is a pretty cheap advantage.

In skyhammer if you are capping the hammer and arrives two scourge who owns all the platform with shades what you do? Escape maybe if you react fast enough but they get the hammer and win probably, sams in temple of silent storm, the 3 cap buff.

You DO realize that Wooden Potatoes actually made it to spot #3 on the leaderboards on NA with only fresh air ele correct? You also realize that spike builds are good for the game and eliminate scourge right? You realize that a necro can't live alone without a firebrand and if they always stay together you can 5v3 the other 2 points right? Once you get out of gold, you have to learn these things because scourge isn't that good against players that know how to play. Also, shades are line of sight for those that don't know. I'll sit in the huge red bubble knowing I can't be hit just to watch them blow their cooldowns, then move slightly and burn them down. The worst part of scourge these days isn't the damage, or survivability, but the insane visual noise hiding other things coming to kill me, not the necro themselves. I've won quite a few matches with the other team having a firebrand and 2 scourges, and we had no scourge. They got outplayed at outer nodes and map objectives fairly easily.

[whoknocks.4935]

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Mr Godlike.6098 said:Amazing...conclusion of our forum is every single necro in game should be in top 10...instead in lower plat didn't seen scourge that could survive few seconds alone on node...

i have seen necros farmed by rife deadeye's spaming buttons...i have seen necros dying to fresh weaver...build with almost 0 zero condi cleanse...i have seen necros dying to pets...i have seen team with 3 necro's losing to team with 3 rangers...i have seen necro calling me cancer cause i didn't want to stand in all his shadesi have seen necro's rushing far, alone at first split and being surprised that everybody on his team is dead on midi have seen necro's going rambo style against 2-3 players and dyingI have seen necro's stubbornly staying on node and tanking mender's druid staff 1 till they die...

Scourge is efficient because everyone below plat thinks that you should always fight on node no matter how many aoe's are on it...Like caping node is more important then staying alive!

Saying that you saw deadeyes, fresh air weavers and power rangers eradicate scourges confirms that you saw them in bronze-silver rank.

Because passed platinum none of these 3 professions are actually viable to be played.Their scourge countering ability doesn't justify their use in high leagues unfortunately.

Staying alive is good yeah, but holding the points is better unfortunately.

We are not saying that scourge cannot be killed at all, but if your team has scourge and the enemy doesn't, you win at 80%. This is a pretty cheap advantage.

In skyhammer if you are capping the hammer and arrives two scourge who owns all the platform with shades what you do? Escape maybe if you react fast enough but they get the hammer and win probably, sams in temple of silent storm, the 3 cap buff.

You DO realize that Wooden Potatoes actually made it to spot #3 on the leaderboards on NA with only fresh air ele correct? You also realize that spike builds are good for the game and eliminate scourge right? You realize that a necro can't live alone without a firebrand and if they always stay together you can 5v3 the other 2 points right? Once you get out of gold, you have to learn these things because scourge isn't that good against players that know how to play. Also, shades are line of sight for those that don't know. I'll sit in the huge red bubble knowing I can't be hit just to watch them blow their cooldowns, then move slightly and burn them down. The worst part of scourge these days isn't the damage, or survivability, but the insane visual noise hiding other things coming to kill me, not the necro themselves. I've won quite a few matches with the other team having a firebrand and 2 scourges, and we had no scourge. They got outplayed at outer nodes and map objectives fairly easily.

You just quoted such an old post, nowadays scourges dont give me that much problems anymore, buy still happy if they will receive additional nerfs.

[Ten.2617]

If the balance team takes 5 Scourges against 5 of other types, and the Scourge team wins, means that something on Scourge is OP or something on other class are UP...Scouge not only gives insane cond damage, but also spams barriers over barriers, corrupts boons, heals allyes, spams CC... and does all this with 300 radius at 1200 range.

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@JETWING.2759 said:If the balance team takes 5 Scourges against 5 of other types, and the Scourge team wins, means that something on Scourge is OP or something on other class are UP...Scouge not only gives insane cond damage, but also spams barriers over barriers, corrupts boons, heals allyes, spams CC... and does all this with 300 radius at 1200 range.

Not even remotely true. I've had a game that the other team had 3 scourge, and we had none. IT was truly a landslide. They lost by over 300 points.

[Axl.8924]

having 5 scourges doesn't say if its overpowered or not in a team.Lets try get a team of scourges in spvp to see if it survives, or 5 of any class.stacking that many is bound to be problematic due to not having anyone to cover that weakness.

[FyzE.3472]

The amount of threads regarding the problems with scourge alone is just amazing. More than mesmer and/or thief complaints. Wow. Keep on defending it though. I've seen professions nerfed for less :-)

Inb4 "But, but muh skill and muh rating!" Yeah man, you got carryed by the profession. Why don't YOU adapt and change?

[FyzE.3472]

How to counter scourge: You either oneshot it, or you die :-) #getoutplayedbish

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@"FyzE.3472" said:Inb4 "But, but muh skill and muh rating!" Yeah man, you got carryed by the profession. Why don't YOU adapt and change?

So, this build has a low skill floor and can carry people up the ranks. So does spellbreaker. I had a guy start this game and in less than an hour of play, he started placements and got to high gold on it. Doesn't mean he's good, but I don't see a billion threads screaming about spellbreaker. Point is there are lower skill floor builds, and it's always been that way. Power thief is harder than most, and warrior tends to be easier. I think the real reason people are screaming is that necro has been dead for so long that they don't know how it works and just want it gone again. I mean, they killed rev and if they skill scourge, that'll be the 7 traditional classes any everyone will be happy to complain about the rest. It's the way things have always been. But continue complaining about anything you don't feel like learning here, and hope that no one complains about your class or you'll be useless for a bit too.

[FyzE.3472]

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@"FyzE.3472" said:Inb4 "But, but muh skill and muh rating!" Yeah man, you got carryed by the profession. Why don't YOU adapt and change?

So, this build has a low skill floor and can carry people up the ranks. So does spellbreaker. I had a guy start this game and in less than an hour of play, he started placements and got to high gold on it. Doesn't mean he's good, but I don't see a billion threads screaming about spellbreaker. Point is there are lower skill floor builds, and it's always been that way. Power thief is harder than most, and warrior tends to be easier. I think the real reason people are screaming is that necro has been dead for so long that they don't know how it works and just want it gone again. I mean, they killed rev and if they skill scourge, that'll be the 7 traditional classes any everyone will be happy to complain about the rest. It's the way things have always been. But continue complaining about anything you don't feel like learning here, and hope that no one complains about your class or you'll be useless for a bit too.

Tell that to Engi. That same spellbreaker cannot stand near scourge. As do most of melee professions/builds. Only the ones that can one shot it can do that. Name other profession that has ho much of an impact on our beloved couquest mode PvP?

[Zlater.6789]

What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

[FyzE.3472]

@Zlater.6789 said:What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

Yes, it works OK if you run a sort of selfish build. If you want to use this support oriented specialization for, I don't know, SUPPORT, then you will have some problems. That and revs can't play pvp because their range options are quite limited. Oh and they have some balance issues too

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:Inb4 "But, but muh skill and muh rating!" Yeah man, you got carryed by the profession. Why don't YOU adapt and change?

So, this build has a low skill floor and can carry people up the ranks. So does spellbreaker. I had a guy start this game and in less than an hour of play, he started placements and got to high gold on it. Doesn't mean he's good, but I don't see a billion threads screaming about spellbreaker. Point is there are lower skill floor builds, and it's always been that way. Power thief is harder than most, and warrior tends to be easier. I think the real reason people are screaming is that necro has been dead for so long that they don't know how it works and just want it gone again. I mean, they killed rev and if they skill scourge, that'll be the 7 traditional classes any everyone will be happy to complain about the rest. It's the way things have always been. But continue complaining about anything you don't feel like learning here, and hope that no one complains about your class or you'll be useless for a bit too.

Tell that to Engi. That same spellbreaker cannot stand near scourge. As do most of melee professions/builds. Only the ones that can one shot it can do that. Name other profession that has ho much of an impact on our beloved couquest mode PvP?

Ok, here are 2 good examples. Mesmer (ALways, so don't tell me it's just mirage, because portal). Portal play can make an insane impart on play at higher levels, and always have. Thieves are another one. Amazing +1's to a fight, and great far harassers to the point where for years, that role was only theirs. If you don't agree with these 2 then maybe you are at lower levels of play, and that's absolutely fine. It is the first time that we have seen a low skill floor build that can make such an impact on lower levels of play. Fresh air back in its heyday was a massive part on games as well, and still can be when played at a great level much like the thief with stronger +1's and slower movement. Bunker druid also plays a pretty huge role that have people screaming for nerfs as well as it can hold a node 1v2 and short times 1v3. Good comps just play around it, but it causes an issues in the same gameplay range of scourge where players that don't know how to rotate well hit a brick wall, same as scourge.

EDIT: I have actually watched in both WvW and PvP arenas and in actual ranked games (so a lot) an engi and spellbreaker both solo, or 1v2 a scourge with a melee at their side, especially with the new tells, and with players that know how to LoS the scourge well, because with a low skill floor usually comes bad gameplay. Resistance on Spellbreaker can really help if you can coordinate a burst. As stated in another post of mine, if he has a firebrand, literally let them rot on mid forever and just get outers and laugh as they won't leave. If they do, just let them rot on the other node. Scourge aren't hard to kill for most comps if you play well. I've watched a thief melee a scourge before when he wandered over to far (our home node). Was busy in a 1v1 and sorta just watched. He never needed help because he knew how to LoS.

[Zlater.6789]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

Yes, it works OK if you run a sort of selfish build. If you want to use this support oriented specialization for, I don't know, SUPPORT, then you will have some problems. That and revs can't play pvp because their range options are quite limited. Oh and they have some balance issues too

uh not really,LB has always been a good counter to necros

Sure if youre using some trash like magi amulet, but you're really wasting stats with that. With Menders or Avatar amulet you should have enough damage, and honestly those are really the only 2 viable options in ranked. The only time you should even consider magi is in AT's, even then its only situational.

[FyzE.3472]

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:Inb4 "But, but muh skill and muh rating!" Yeah man, you got carryed by the profession. Why don't YOU adapt and change?

So, this build has a low skill floor and can carry people up the ranks. So does spellbreaker. I had a guy start this game and in less than an hour of play, he started placements and got to high gold on it. Doesn't mean he's good, but I don't see a billion threads screaming about spellbreaker. Point is there are lower skill floor builds, and it's always been that way. Power thief is harder than most, and warrior tends to be easier. I think the real reason people are screaming is that necro has been dead for so long that they don't know how it works and just want it gone again. I mean, they killed rev and if they skill scourge, that'll be the 7 traditional classes any everyone will be happy to complain about the rest. It's the way things have always been. But continue complaining about anything you don't feel like learning here, and hope that no one complains about your class or you'll be useless for a bit too.

Tell that to Engi. That same spellbreaker cannot stand near scourge. As do most of melee professions/builds. Only the ones that can one shot it can do that. Name other profession that has ho much of an impact on our beloved couquest mode PvP?

Ok, here are 2 good examples. Mesmer (ALways, so don't tell me it's just mirage, because portal). Portal play can make an insane impart on play at higher levels, and always have. Thieves are another one. Amazing +1's to a fight, and great far harassers to the point where for years, that role was only theirs. If you don't agree with these 2 then maybe you are at lower levels of play, and that's absolutely fine. It is the first time that we have seen a low skill floor build that can make such an impact on lower levels of play. Fresh air back in its heyday was a massive part on games as well, and still can be when played at a great level much like the thief with stronger +1's and slower movement. Bunker druid also plays a pretty huge role that have people screaming for nerfs as well as it can hold a node 1v2 and short times 1v3. Good comps just play around it, but it causes an issues in the same gameplay range of scourge where players that don't know how to rotate well hit a brick wall, same as scourge.

"same as scourge" lol, that was a funny one, thanks! And yes, you can outplay mesmers thieves with just dodgind and/or changing some of the skill slots. You can force druid out from a node you know? Spellbrakers do that pretty well. So avoiding it is not the only play you have. Just an FYI in case you are at lower levels of play, and that's absolutely fine. Any more suggestions? Oh and you don't have to equip a special weapon to counter those professions that you have mentioned. That and they don't deny an entire playstime (melee) from being played in the only playmode available.

[FyzE.3472]

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

Yes, it works OK if you run a sort of selfish build. If you want to use this support oriented specialization for, I don't know, SUPPORT, then you will have some problems. That and revs can't play pvp because their range options are quite limited. Oh and they have some balance issues too

uh not really,LB has always been a good counter to necros

Sure if youre using some trash like magi amulet, but you're really wasting stats with that. With Menders or Avatar amulet you should have enough damage, and honestly those are really the only 2 viable options in ranked. The only time you should even consider magi is in AT's, even then its only situational.

OK, what you would suggest to warriors? Non-dh guards? Poor, poor revs?

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

Yes, it works OK if you run a sort of selfish build. If you want to use this support oriented specialization for, I don't know, SUPPORT, then you will have some problems. That and revs can't play pvp because their range options are quite limited. Oh and they have some balance issues too

uh not really,LB has always been a good counter to necros

Sure if youre using some trash like magi amulet, but you're really wasting stats with that. With Menders or Avatar amulet you should have enough damage, and honestly those are really the only 2 viable options in ranked. The only time you should even consider magi is in AT's, even then its only situational.

OK, what you would suggest to warriors? Non-dh guards? Poor, poor revs?

Wars? Resistance. Guards, go find a better fight somewhere else. Revs? Find a better class at the moment, but if you mest play it, you aren't going to get good team mates in the range of play it can actually hit, so does scourge even matter at that point? If you want to core guard, those are actually incredible even at high levels of play and are in the top 100 players on NA, or you have firebrand as an option. Why are you so focused on a 1v1 question? You have 4 other teammates, and it's not like you can't go to other nodes. I mean, all 3 are equally important. AS for my level of play for reference, I'm in the ranks where scourge isn't OP and people know how to kill them in most games I play, and rifle thieves are destroyed in seconds, so maybe that's why I have my views here. My teams have no problems with scourge any more? Been floating between high gold and plat2 depending on which friends I bring along, and playing Fresh Air ele, Holosmith, and sometimes mesmer depending on my mood, and what my team lacks. Sometimes I troll noobs in unranked on scourge since obviously people are still learning they aren't as strong as they look when they are in there, so yous, I know how to "play" one. You can either try to play well, or roll your face on your keyboard. Both work in unranked, but mid-high gold I actually start having to look for spikes from Mesmers and FA ele. Also, PLEASE don't run a ranged thief, but that's another "option" that melts a scourge, but you literally can't do anything but melt scourge and other complete noobs on that.

[Zlater.6789]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

Yes, it works OK if you run a sort of selfish build. If you want to use this support oriented specialization for, I don't know, SUPPORT, then you will have some problems. That and revs can't play pvp because their range options are quite limited. Oh and they have some balance issues too

uh not really,LB has always been a good counter to necros

Sure if youre using some trash like magi amulet, but you're really wasting stats with that. With Menders or Avatar amulet you should have enough damage, and honestly those are really the only 2 viable options in ranked. The only time you should even consider magi is in AT's, even then its only situational.

OK, what you would suggest to warriors? Non-dh guards? Poor, poor revs?

You're asking a question that cannot be answered, that's why you ask it. You already know that it is extremely unreasonable to expect every conceivable meta and non-meta build to be able hard counter literally everyone else that plays the game, turning them into some anti-necro god because they have slotted a single god tier weapon or trait.

So maybe instead of asking stupid questions that you already know the answer to, why not think of things that counter necromancers and do them?

[FyzE.3472]

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

Yes, it works OK if you run a sort of selfish build. If you want to use this support oriented specialization for, I don't know, SUPPORT, then you will have some problems. That and revs can't play pvp because their range options are quite limited. Oh and they have some balance issues too

uh not really,LB has always been a good counter to necros

Sure if youre using some trash like magi amulet, but you're really wasting stats with that. With Menders or Avatar amulet you should have enough damage, and honestly those are really the only 2 viable options in ranked. The only time you should even consider magi is in AT's, even then its only situational.

OK, what you would suggest to warriors? Non-dh guards? Poor, poor revs?

You're asking a question that cannot be answered, that's why you ask it. You already know that it is extremely unreasonable to expect every conceivable meta and non-meta build to be able hard counter literally everyone else that plays the game, turning them into some anti-necro god because they have slotted a single god tier weapon or trait.

So maybe instead of asking stupid questions that you already know the answer to, why not think of things that counter necromancers and do them?

My question is why? Why I don't have to counter a rev, war, thief etc? Because necro was underperforming for a long time? Well boohoo welcome to the revenant world. And not only them. To counter a necro, people MUST do stuff no other profession demands to beat it. I think that this is not really good.

[FyzE.3472]

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

Yes, it works OK if you run a sort of selfish build. If you want to use this support oriented specialization for, I don't know, SUPPORT, then you will have some problems. That and revs can't play pvp because their range options are quite limited. Oh and they have some balance issues too

uh not really,LB has always been a good counter to necros

Sure if youre using some trash like magi amulet, but you're really wasting stats with that. With Menders or Avatar amulet you should have enough damage, and honestly those are really the only 2 viable options in ranked. The only time you should even consider magi is in AT's, even then its only situational.

OK, what you would suggest to warriors? Non-dh guards? Poor, poor revs?

Wars? Resistance. Guards, go find a better fight somewhere else. Revs? Find a better class at the moment, but if you mest play it, you aren't going to get good team mates in the range of play it can actually hit, so does scourge even matter at that point? If you want to core guard, those are actually incredible even at high levels of play and are in the top 100 players on NA, or you have firebrand as an option. Why are you so focused on a 1v1 question? You have 4 other teammates, and it's not like you can't go to other nodes. I mean, all 3 are equally important. AS for my level of play for reference, I'm in the ranks where scourge isn't OP and people know how to kill them in most games I play, and rifle thieves are destroyed in seconds, so maybe that's why I have my views here. My teams have no problems with scourge any more? Been floating between high gold and plat2 depending on which friends I bring along, and playing Fresh Air ele, Holosmith, and sometimes mesmer depending on my mood, and what my team lacks. Sometimes I troll noobs in unranked on scourge since obviously people are still learning they aren't as strong as they look when they are in there, so yous, I know how to "play" one. You can either try to play well, or roll your face on your keyboard. Both work in unranked, but mid-high gold I actually start having to look for spikes from Mesmers and FA ele. Also, PLEASE don't run a ranged thief, but that's another "option" that melts a scourge, but you literally can't do anything but melt scourge and other complete noobs on that.

Oh you mean the same resistance that gets corrupded and otally useless? Sure, I understand your "level of play" now. Guards and others just go fight someone else. Nice counteplay. Why did not I think of that??? Hmm.. You know, you can "counter" every single profession like that! If only you did not have to cap and HOLD a point to win... oh well. Its the devs fault. Scourge is not responsible for their screwups right? cough DH traps cough. I'm not focused on only 1v1. If you take that nuclear warhead (aka scourge) in a teamfight and you don't have one. Well, the only way to win is to "counter" it by running to other points right? Not like the enemy team will can other points. It is not possible. they will cap one and stay on it the entire game. But thanks man, this cunter is so legit..

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

Yes, it works OK if you run a sort of selfish build. If you want to use this support oriented specialization for, I don't know, SUPPORT, then you will have some problems. That and revs can't play pvp because their range options are quite limited. Oh and they have some balance issues too

uh not really,LB has always been a good counter to necros

Sure if youre using some trash like magi amulet, but you're really wasting stats with that. With Menders or Avatar amulet you should have enough damage, and honestly those are really the only 2 viable options in ranked. The only time you should even consider magi is in AT's, even then its only situational.

OK, what you would suggest to warriors? Non-dh guards? Poor, poor revs?

You're asking a question that cannot be answered, that's why you ask it. You already know that it is extremely unreasonable to expect every conceivable meta and non-meta build to be able hard counter literally everyone else that plays the game, turning them into some anti-necro god because they have slotted a single god tier weapon or trait.

So maybe instead of asking stupid questions that you already know the answer to, why not think of things that counter necromancers and do them?

My question is why? Why I don't have to counter a rev, war, thief etc? Because necro was underperforming for a long time? Well boohoo welcome to the revenant world. And not only them. To counter a necro, people MUST do stuff no other profession demands to beat it. I think that this is not really good.

Why don't you have to counter a rev? Well, they are really bad now. A war? I don't know about you, but that thing has SO MUCH INVULN if they are any good against both condi and power that you literally do need a counter, well, if they aren't bad, and thief, uh, they hit hard. If you "don't need a counter" for these, that probably means you are OVERLY tanky and are a bunker, and don't fit the DPS role you think you may be in. Anything strong enough to kill either of these with skill requires a counter, usually skill. So in your case, your endless amount of tankyness against power builds is your counter that you have, and are fighting a condi build. Do you have trouble against other condi builds? Do you lose against those? What class are you playing? Maybe if you stopped complaining and gave us something to work with, we could offer help instead of you just complaining. More importantly, as someone else said, no matter what you run, something WILL counter you. That's called "Build diversity". If there were no counters, there would be 1 class with 1 build because it could do everything.

[Zlater.6789]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

Yes, it works OK if you run a sort of selfish build. If you want to use this support oriented specialization for, I don't know, SUPPORT, then you will have some problems. That and revs can't play pvp because their range options are quite limited. Oh and they have some balance issues too

uh not really,LB has always been a good counter to necros

Sure if youre using some trash like magi amulet, but you're really wasting stats with that. With Menders or Avatar amulet you should have enough damage, and honestly those are really the only 2 viable options in ranked. The only time you should even consider magi is in AT's, even then its only situational.

OK, what you would suggest to warriors? Non-dh guards? Poor, poor revs?

You're asking a question that cannot be answered, that's why you ask it. You already know that it is extremely unreasonable to expect every conceivable meta and non-meta build to be able hard counter literally everyone else that plays the game, turning them into some anti-necro god because they have slotted a single god tier weapon or trait.

So maybe instead of asking stupid questions that you already know the answer to, why not think of things that counter necromancers and do them?

My question is why? Why I don't have to counter a rev, war, thief etc? Because necro was underperforming for a long time? Well boohoo welcome to the revenant world. And not only them. To counter a necro, people MUST do stuff no other profession demands to beat it. I think that this is not really good.

Well you're just speaking to the problem directly there, you say it yourself. Your problem is that in your poor revenant world you can't seem to get any better because literally everyone else is better than you.

Here's the hard truth: When you sitting there going "boohoo my poor little revenant world I will never beat that scourge," that scourge is busy not caring about your poor little revenant world and only caring about winning the match. Infact I want you to know that NOBODY cares about your poor little revenant world, only you.

While you're out there sulking about your poor little revenant world, everyone else is just busy getting it done.

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

@FyzE.3472 said:

@thatdarnkatz.7168 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zlater.6789 said:What I found helps is really good range burst, if youre on druid for example you can use a longbow for example, thats a really good counter considering you have enough damage.

Yes, it works OK if you run a sort of selfish build. If you want to use this support oriented specialization for, I don't know, SUPPORT, then you will have some problems. That and revs can't play pvp because their range options are quite limited. Oh and they have some balance issues too

uh not really,LB has always been a good counter to necros

Sure if youre using some trash like magi amulet, but you're really wasting stats with that. With Menders or Avatar amulet you should have enough damage, and honestly those are really the only 2 viable options in ranked. The only time you should even consider magi is in AT's, even then its only situational.

OK, what you would suggest to warriors? Non-dh guards? Poor, poor revs?

Wars? Resistance. Guards, go find a better fight somewhere else. Revs? Find a better class at the moment, but if you mest play it, you aren't going to get good team mates in the range of play it can actually hit, so does scourge even matter at that point? If you want to core guard, those are actually incredible even at high levels of play and are in the top 100 players on NA, or you have firebrand as an option. Why are you so focused on a 1v1 question? You have 4 other teammates, and it's not like you can't go to other nodes. I mean, all 3 are equally important. AS for my level of play for reference, I'm in the ranks where scourge isn't OP and people know how to kill them in most games I play, and rifle thieves are destroyed in seconds, so maybe that's why I have my views here. My teams have no problems with scourge any more? Been floating between high gold and plat2 depending on which friends I bring along, and playing Fresh Air ele, Holosmith, and sometimes mesmer depending on my mood, and what my team lacks. Sometimes I troll noobs in unranked on scourge since obviously people are still learning they aren't as strong as they look when they are in there, so yous, I know how to "play" one. You can either try to play well, or roll your face on your keyboard. Both work in unranked, but mid-high gold I actually start having to look for spikes from Mesmers and FA ele. Also, PLEASE don't run a ranged thief, but that's another "option" that melts a scourge, but you literally can't do anything but melt scourge and other complete noobs on that.

Oh you mean the same resistance that gets corrupded and otally useless? Sure, I understand your "level of play" now. Guards and others just go fight someone else. Nice counteplay. Why did not I think of that??? Hmm.. You know, you can "counter" every single profession like that! If only you did not have to cap and HOLD a point to win... oh well. Its the devs fault. Scourge is not responsible for their screwups right?

cough

DH traps

cough

. I'm not focused on only 1v1. If you take that nuclear warhead (aka scourge) in a teamfight and you don't have one. Well, the only way to win is to "counter" it by running to other points right? Not like the enemy team will can other points. It is not possible. they will cap one and stay on it the entire game. But thanks man, this cunter is so legit..

Please enjoy your time in low ranks. You clearly just want to complain. You will get no help from anyone because you just complain, and don't listen to people when you ask questions, just complain more. Clearly you get globaled by scourge, and don't know how to rotate in PvP, and that's fine. Just don't come to the forums expecting a nerf to something you just want to complain about with no basis showing clearly no understanding of conquest and how the gamemode works. I tried to answer with thought. I tried to give you real answers, but now you are getting asked to just stop. It's fine to ask for help, but not fine to just complain about something "broken" when clearly it's counterable and you just want to refuse that and complain "my favorite and bestest class is so fun and I keep dying to this big meanie, and I want my dad to beat up his dad so he's not gonna be a bully any more." That's all this has turned into. Learn to adapt, or PvP is just not for you. Simple as that. Good day sir or mam.