Proposing a better alternative.

[joneirikb.7506]

A few ideas on changing Down-State:

Not all equally plausible, just throwing out ideas:

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Any % damage you take while downed gets transfered to your normal healt for X time.

If you down, and take 50% damage before rallied, your health when back up is 50% of your normal max. then it slowly return back up over X time (1 minute?)

This gets a bit weirder with rezzing, but guess they could count the damage done and ignoring the healing done at the same time, to calculate the "weakness health".

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Alternatively, just remove 50% of max health each time you're back up again, so first time you get 50% health for 1 min, 2nd time you're dead because you'd be rezzed at 0% health anyways.

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Or slap on a "Deep Wound" debuff-effect (so not removable) that makes you take +50% damage for X time after getting up. Though I dislike this since it doesn't actually give any dimishing returns for the downed mode.

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Separately, I keep wondering how much of a purpose the downed skills really makes in current game.

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@"Deimos.4263" said:I don't have a problem with down state. I kinda like down state. You've got a chance to rally, you've got a chance to get picked up (though ressing while in combat in WvW is not really a thing now. I would actually bring that back so people could attempt a truly heroic res, and as DeadlySynz suggests impose a debuff to the person attempting it....but perhaps not instant death on hit. -500 toughness, maybe? Something.) So down state seems like a fun second chance to survive to me, but I could do without it too.

The state I have a problem with is "defeated". You shouldn't be able to hang around, scout, waste enemy siege, watch enemy dances, or be ressed if you're defeated. You're defeated. It should port you instantly back to spawn when you die. Even during "no down state week" (I could be mistaken here) the winning team could pick people back up after the fight when they should be running back. There's no sense of attrition if you can literally come back from the dead.

I also like this idea, it could be really interesting for zerg plays. Though probably won't change much for small scale 1vX.

[Whiteout.1975]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Whiteout.1975 said:I've literally been thinking the same 1:1 res too @Dawdler.8521. I'm also thinking that it would probably add more evened out skillful play between smaller vs larger groups... because now the "attackers" (attacking the downed) cannot get as many "free" shots on the higher possibility of players resing, but now only just 1 player max. Granted this was the one thing I actually liked about downstate... But if it adds more respectable skill to the game this new way then I'm down. And I'll end up liking the more skillful play more at that point anyways.Well in smallscale people wouldnt be so stupid as to die when ressing due to "free" shots, you'd hope ;)

The main thing is that it would just shift the reliance on brute force (ie 5 peeps all rushing to res) to somewhat more tactical thinking - who resses (the bunker? The healer? The closest?), who CC (you need more CC as 1 person ressing cannot overcome dps from multiple peeps) and how you manouver to block enemies (do we push to "clear" the downed so someone can res or do we cover him with sheild bubbles etc?) and so on. It's such a simple nerf yet so elegant. No rallying adds a layer on top of this with further considerations on when to stomp and when to res since you no longer get both in a neat package.

Unlike no downed state that significantly simplifies combat and promotes frontloading burst damage, this deepens the combat instead. I am always reminded of the original GW2 guardian teaser video from 2012, with him popping the sheild to protect a "downed" NPC fleeing from centaurs .

That

is the kind of combat that sold me on GW2. I want that. Not some

surprise bookah!!!

dead in 1s

.

But of course, people wanting no downstate still dont want fights. They just want to win.

Edit: Btw is someone want to post a hidden poll on this that's not stupidly biased and open with stuff like "Remove downstate because its skill/Keep downstate because I cant fight", I recommend the following options:

• Remove downstate
• Nerf downstate
• Keep downstate as is

With the following notes:

Remove downstate

assumes that all associated skills/traits and functions are remade/changed, no arguing "but mah function gyro".

Nerf downstate

can mean for example no rallying, 1:1 ressing, nerfing hp, nerfing downstate skills etc.

Keep downstate as is

means... as is.

Now, why 3 poll options you ask instead of just 2 (remove/keep)? Well because they are still mutually exclusive. There's no ambiguity in what to vote for even if you dont agree with for example all types of nerfs, unlike the recent poll of "no downstate on one border" which kind of pulls both crowds and isnt a good indication how many are in favor or either keeping or removing it, its just a different type of poll. Those that want to remove downstate wont vote for nerf or keep (obviously). Those that want to nerf it wont vote for remove or keep it as is. And those that want to keep it as is wont vote for nerfing or removing it. Simple.

Lol true. Back in the day (2 years + ago) when I used to play a lot more. We (my main guild) (4-6 of us on average running together) would usually take on about 15-25max players depending on their skill/builds in general... We were mostly successful with the vs 15 range on average... And part of the reason we were successful to that degree was because we would purposely leave a down or downs and hope they would try to res. That way we could bomb/cleave them for more downs. Anyways, it does seem to get to a point where numbers become almost completely more favor-some. Then you add the possibility of res traits, runes of mercy, rally (off a NPC or Random usually) etc. and they just spend so little time on the actual ground in downstate... While our cooldowns are still trying to catch up, but ultimately can't compete.

It is unfortunately such a disheartening experience when the revive happens so easily under circumstances like that. Where you did everything you could do that was right ultimately and they pay so very little for it. Just isn't right.If they were better equipped or more importantly just "better". Then they should be getting us down firstly.

But Yea I completely agree with you. We share basically the same thoughts on direction we would like to see downstate head firstly and can agree on not just jumping ship on it. There's indeed still good downstate can do... It just needs to be better balanced in today's environment especially.I think requiring some more coordination (like your basically saying) for individuals who are >1 on how resing should take place. Would more depth to WvW in general in a much more respectable way than currently :)

Good Idea on the the poll lol... It really would encompass the ridiculous attitude on "2 extremes" I was talking about in part of my first reply here.

@Whiteout.1975 said:The sad thing is it feels like I or we (as a community) have to be on ether end of 2 extremes. Being ether to keep downstate and praise the living hell out of it or completely nuke it's existence from the game (at least WvW).

Well said @Dawdler.8521

[Aridon.8362]

All good ideas, sadly the latest poll for downstate are against removing it altogether. You have a sample size of about 76 voters for it and only 72% popular vote for either reworking downstate or keeping it the way it is in WvW.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/75626/no-downstate-poll-please-read-post-first#latest

Though, this is accounting people who even bothered to click on the forum post or people who feel strongly about the issue. Still, it's a decent sample. We have lost this day folks.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"Aridon.8362" said:All good ideas, sadly the latest poll for downstate are against removing it altogether. You have a sample size of about 76 voters for it and only 72% popular vote for either reworking downstate or keeping it the way it is in WvW.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/75626/no-downstate-poll-please-read-post-first#latest

Though, this is accounting people who even bothered to click on the forum post or people who feel strongly about the issue. Still, it's a decent sample. We have lost this day folks.

Not really. The intent is that they improve on reviving, even if that means keeping downstate I am fine with that so long as they improve it in a way that is healthier to gameplay. I would personally prefer they remove it and do a massive rework of the whole thing, which in my opinion would be a much needed shake up to the game that could very well bring people back or have newer people check the game out.

Reworking/nerfing downstate could also accomplish this but I don't feel like it would have the same effect, at least in magnitude.

So far a majority at least wants to see something done to it, either remove it in favor of a complete rework of several mechanics or reworking downstate itself with nerfs and changes to make it healthier for PvP. I think that alone speaks for itself, clearly over half the people in the poll are displeased with downstate as it is right now.

[Aridon.8362]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@"Aridon.8362" said:All good ideas, sadly the latest poll for downstate are against removing it altogether. You have a sample size of about 76 voters for it and only 72% popular vote for either reworking downstate or keeping it the way it is in WvW.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/75626/no-downstate-poll-please-read-post-first#latest

Though, this is accounting people who even bothered to click on the forum post or people who feel strongly about the issue. Still, it's a decent sample. We have lost this day folks.

Not really. The intent is that they improve on reviving, even if that means keeping downstate I am fine with that so long as they

improve

it in a way that is healthier to gameplay. I would personally prefer they remove it and do a massive rework of the whole thing, which in my opinion would be a much needed shake up to the game that could very well bring people back or have newer people check the game out.

Reworking/nerfing downstate could also accomplish this but I don't feel like it would have the same effect, at least in magnitude.

So far a

majority

at least wants to see something done to it, either remove it in favor of a complete rework of several mechanics or reworking downstate itself with nerfs and changes to make it healthier for PvP. I think that alone speaks for itself, clearly over half the people in the poll are displeased with downstate as it is right now.

I'm all for removing it, personally I would attack any view that supports keeping it altogether because skilled zerging groups suffer most from rallybot enemies. I've played WvW for a really long time and the number one thing I hate is when the enemy wins a fight because they can fight in downed state better than they can while alive. I've even had commanders in several guilds screaming at the top of their lungs for necros to focus on finishing the downs because it's such a dumb mechanic. Your hp goes to 0 you should be dead, end of story.

In removing it, traits /skills need to be re-worked to fit the scanrio as well. It's not hard unless Anet puts up their massive walls of rules on top of themselves.

[steki.1478]

@Aridon.8362 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aridon.8362 said:All good ideas, sadly the latest poll for downstate are against removing it altogether. You have a sample size of about 76 voters for it and only 72% popular vote for either reworking downstate or keeping it the way it is in WvW.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/75626/no-downstate-poll-please-read-post-first#latest

Though, this is accounting people who even bothered to click on the forum post or people who feel strongly about the issue. Still, it's a decent sample. We have lost this day folks.

Not really. The intent is that they improve on reviving, even if that means keeping downstate I am fine with that so long as they

improve

it in a way that is healthier to gameplay. I would personally prefer they remove it and do a massive rework of the whole thing, which in my opinion would be a much needed shake up to the game that could very well bring people back or have newer people check the game out.

Reworking/nerfing downstate could also accomplish this but I don't feel like it would have the same effect, at least in magnitude.

So far a

majority

at least wants to see something done to it, either remove it in favor of a complete rework of several mechanics or reworking downstate itself with nerfs and changes to make it healthier for PvP. I think that alone speaks for itself, clearly over half the people in the poll are displeased with downstate as it is right now.

I'm all for removing it, personally I would attack any view that supports keeping it altogether because skilled zerging groups suffer most from rallybot enemies. I've played WvW for a really long time and the number one thing I hate is when the enemy wins a fight because they can fight in downed state better than they can while alive. I've even had commanders in several guilds screaming at the top of their lungs for necros to focus on finishing the downs because it's such a dumb mechanic. Your hp goes to 0 you should be dead, end of story.

In removing it, traits /skills need to be re-worked to fit the scanrio as well. It's not hard unless Anet puts up their massive walls of rules on top of themselves.

You just explained the problem you have - you're telling necros to focus downs instead of eles/revs doing that. Necro damage is terrible compared to those 2 classes, they are only used for group sustain and boon corrupt (unless it's a dps reaper).

If your necros were interrupting enemies while revs/eles were cleaving them you'd have much easier time.

[Aridon.8362]

@steki.1478 said:

@Aridon.8362 said:

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@Aridon.8362 said:All good ideas, sadly the latest poll for downstate are against removing it altogether. You have a sample size of about 76 voters for it and only 72% popular vote for either reworking downstate or keeping it the way it is in WvW.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/75626/no-downstate-poll-please-read-post-first#latest

Though, this is accounting people who even bothered to click on the forum post or people who feel strongly about the issue. Still, it's a decent sample. We have lost this day folks.

Not really. The intent is that they improve on reviving, even if that means keeping downstate I am fine with that so long as they

improve

it in a way that is healthier to gameplay. I would personally prefer they remove it and do a massive rework of the whole thing, which in my opinion would be a much needed shake up to the game that could very well bring people back or have newer people check the game out.

Reworking/nerfing downstate could also accomplish this but I don't feel like it would have the same effect, at least in magnitude.

So far a

majority

at least wants to see something done to it, either remove it in favor of a complete rework of several mechanics or reworking downstate itself with nerfs and changes to make it healthier for PvP. I think that alone speaks for itself, clearly over half the people in the poll are displeased with downstate as it is right now.

I'm all for removing it, personally I would attack any view that supports keeping it altogether because skilled zerging groups suffer most from rallybot enemies. I've played WvW for a really long time and the number one thing I hate is when the enemy wins a fight because they can fight in downed state better than they can while alive. I've even had commanders in several guilds screaming at the top of their lungs for necros to focus on finishing the downs because it's such a dumb mechanic. Your hp goes to 0 you should be dead, end of story.

In removing it, traits /skills need to be re-worked to fit the scanrio as well. It's not hard unless Anet puts up their massive walls of rules on top of themselves.

You just explained the problem you have - you're telling necros to focus downs instead of eles/revs doing that. Necro damage is terrible compared to those 2 classes, they are only used for group sustain and boon corrupt (unless it's a dps reaper).

If your necros were interrupting enemies while revs/eles were cleaving them you'd have much easier time.

It's not my problem anymore I'm done with WvW guilds, hehe. I'm actually just saying that there shouldn't be downs to cleave at all. No harm done, it's just an opinion.