[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...

[Elaine.7142]

I think part of the reason I disliked this was that when you had stuff to do, you had a LOT to do. But when you didn't, you were doing one 5 second or so thing and then had to wait. I know you fixed the wait, but I believe if you had broken the collections down more, so that every day you could do a couple of the collections, people would have been a lot less irked by it. Instead, we went from one massive collection, to feeding only, to another massive collection. Breaking stuff down into smaller steps that were done every day, or removing all time gating would seem to be the best solution to me.

[Obtena.7952]

Personally, It's not the volume of content that's the problem. I would have been EXCEPTIONALLY USEFUL to know exactly how much content I was getting into when I started the collection. I'm not saying I dislike how it's implemented but I can see why people could be massively turned off when they think they get there ... and they find out it's another layer of collections.

Anet, do yourself a favour and explain the path to a reward to people UPFRONT. As you have done here ... it's hidden.

[Shabari.1504]

It was pretty extensive the whole process to get the mount. Even I grumbled at a couple things. It is tho tied into the new Legendary Accessory, so knowing that explains the grind for it.

Also I have found on some past new things that you had to do with new maps and such, most of it could be done and completed in a few hours. You get all excited waiting for the new venture, do it in a few hours. Then it's done, and well that was that. Done over quick and the thrill was over. Having to do the Skyscale collections took some time. Once you get your mount it will all be worth it. :) promise.

Hey and look at it this way. If you put the effort in look at how much map currency you can collect to turn into VM and buy Trophy Shipments. Gold in your wallet to buy new Skyscale skins that I'm sure will be coming out. :open_mouth:

[Ototo.3214]

I don't think the currency numbers should be lowered at all. Maybe increase the cap for gathering nodes on some of the maps and make the map completion amount consistent, but other than that it's fine. They really should have just...let us actually see the material requirements while we were waiting all those days of the first week before we even knew about the currency requirement. Then people could have started working on collecting the currency while they were still on earlier collections. But now the requirement is known so it's not a big of a deal. The mount is apparently part of a legendary collection as well now, so it's very doubtful they'll lower the currency numbers. I guess they could shift it so Skyscale needs the 100 of each then the trinket needs 250 of each instead, but they'd still have to reimburse everyone that paid 250 for the saddle which...not sure how feasible that it.

[eldrin.6471]

i think anet should do whats best for the long term future of the game.

[Ygdrasill.9135]

I sort of see why there is some time for the hatchling to grow up. For most of us that's minor in comparison to the days of collecting gold for the food, toys, and saddle parts and mats for the saddle parts. Since I only have so much time per day to play, the collection sections took me at least a day or two each to run through and I've taken some days off grinding mats to do other things. There probably are those who could and would have run through the whole thing in a day, but they are in the small minority. There have also been several parts that could be done concurently. You can get toys and treats while waiting on the feeding part to be complete and could start collecting saddle mats right from the start. It might have been good to have a note about doing that given the amounts involved. Anyone who's not aware of that may well be really upset when they finally unlock that and see what's needed.

[eldrin.6471]

@Ygdrasill.9135 said:I sort of see why there is some time for the hatchling to grow up. For most of us that's minor in comparison to the days of collecting gold for the food, toys, and saddle parts and mats for the saddle parts. Since I only have so much time per day to play, the collection sections took me at least a day or two each to run through and I've taken some days off grinding mats to do other things. There probably are those who could and would have run through the whole thing in a day, but they are in the small minority. There have also been several parts that could be done concurently. You can get toys and treats while waiting on the feeding part to be complete and could start collecting saddle mats right from the start. It might have been good to have a note about doing that given the amounts involved. Anyone who's not aware of that may well be really upset when they finally unlock that and see what's needed.

I would not have stated the collection had i known what was involved. i done all the way up to sky scale saddle and gave up just over a week ago.Got up this morning and thought il give getting these currency's a try. I loged in went to sand swept isle and done the inquest heart to get Difluorite Crystal..and got nothing and loged out.

[Nemezijus.6851]

@eldrin.6471 said:

@Ygdrasill.9135 said:I sort of see why there is some time for the hatchling to grow up. For most of us that's minor in comparison to the days of collecting gold for the food, toys, and saddle parts and mats for the saddle parts. Since I only have so much time per day to play, the collection sections took me at least a day or two each to run through and I've taken some days off grinding mats to do other things. There probably are those who could and would have run through the whole thing in a day, but they are in the small minority. There have also been several parts that could be done concurently. You can get toys and treats while waiting on the feeding part to be complete and could start collecting saddle mats right from the start. It might have been good to have a note about doing that given the amounts involved. Anyone who's not aware of that may well be really upset when they finally unlock that and see what's needed.

I would not have stated the collection had i known what was involved. i done all the way up to sky scale saddle and gave up just over a week ago.Got up this morning and thought il give getting these currency's a try. I loged in went to sand swept isle and done the inquest heart to get Difluorite Crystal..and got nothing and loged out.

Is it a bug then? every heart vendor in Sandswept isles is supposed to sell Bundle of Difluorite Crystals per character per day.

[eldrin.6471]

@Nemezijus.6851 said:

@eldrin.6471 said:

@Ygdrasill.9135 said:I sort of see why there is some time for the hatchling to grow up. For most of us that's minor in comparison to the days of collecting gold for the food, toys, and saddle parts and mats for the saddle parts. Since I only have so much time per day to play, the collection sections took me at least a day or two each to run through and I've taken some days off grinding mats to do other things. There probably are those who could and would have run through the whole thing in a day, but they are in the small minority. There have also been several parts that could be done concurently. You can get toys and treats while waiting on the feeding part to be complete and could start collecting saddle mats right from the start. It might have been good to have a note about doing that given the amounts involved. Anyone who's not aware of that may well be really upset when they finally unlock that and see what's needed.

I would not have stated the collection had i known what was involved. i done all the way up to sky scale saddle and gave up just over a week ago.Got up this morning and thought il give getting these currency's a try. I loged in went to sand swept isle and done the inquest heart to get Difluorite Crystal..and got nothing and loged out.

Is it a bug then? every heart vendor in Sandswept isles is supposed to sell Bundle of Difluorite Crystals per character per day.

i thought it was a reward for doing the heart. So i need buy them.i got 5 Difluorite Crystals .and a pounding headache. awesome

[Nemezijus.6851]

@eldrin.6471 said:

@Nemezijus.6851 said:

@eldrin.6471 said:

@Ygdrasill.9135 said:I sort of see why there is some time for the hatchling to grow up. For most of us that's minor in comparison to the days of collecting gold for the food, toys, and saddle parts and mats for the saddle parts. Since I only have so much time per day to play, the collection sections took me at least a day or two each to run through and I've taken some days off grinding mats to do other things. There probably are those who could and would have run through the whole thing in a day, but they are in the small minority. There have also been several parts that could be done concurently. You can get toys and treats while waiting on the feeding part to be complete and could start collecting saddle mats right from the start. It might have been good to have a note about doing that given the amounts involved. Anyone who's not aware of that may well be really upset when they finally unlock that and see what's needed.

I would not have stated the collection had i known what was involved. i done all the way up to sky scale saddle and gave up just over a week ago.Got up this morning and thought il give getting these currency's a try. I loged in went to sand swept isle and done the inquest heart to get Difluorite Crystal..and got nothing and loged out.

Is it a bug then? every heart vendor in Sandswept isles is supposed to sell Bundle of Difluorite Crystals per character per day.

i thought it was a reward for doing the heart. So i need buy them.i got 5 Difluorite Crystals .and a pounding headache. awesome

Its been like that in all LS3 and LS4 maps. After doing the heart you can buy limited amount of local currency for karma from that vendor.

[eldrin.6471]

So i would need do all the hearts in sand swept isles for 50 days to get the 250 Difluorite Crystals ?OMG .this collection needs a big warning sign stuck on it.nothing worse than spending time doing a collection that lets you get to a point that you think you must be almost finished only to find its not possible .Could these currency's not be made tradable so the people that like doing hearts can sell them to people that dont.

[Nemezijus.6851]

@eldrin.6471 said:So i would need do all the hearts in sand swept isles for 50 days to get the 250 Difluorite Crystals ?OMG .this collection needs a big warning sign stuck on it.nothing worse than spending time doing a collection that lets you get to a point that you think you must be almost finished only to find its not possible .Could these currency's not be made tradable so the people that like doing hearts can sell them to people that dont.

3 hearts x 5 crystals each = 15 crystals per character per dayassuming you do minimal mining in the map and get just 5 more crystals per day from mining thats already 20 crystals per chracter per day. Of course you can mine more than 5 crystals per day.5 more crystals you buy from Dragonfall vendor for volatile magic.So if you have only one character - you can get at least 25 crystals per day (approx 20 minutes of time for hearts and mining). that would be around 13 days to get 250.

However you get 5 crystals per character per day if you defeat Zohaquan and 5 (maybe 7) from specimen chamber meta. So two metas in that map will give you at least 10 more crystals per day. If you plan to do metas and need karma, I recommend buying the Karmic Retribution from Volatile Magic vendor in this map. The metas have a lot of mobs which all drop karmic retribution.Doing metas even once per day on the Sandswept Isles + hearts + quick mining is 30 crystals per day (+5 from Dragonfall vendor). 35 crystals per day = a week to get 250 crystals.

[Cameron.6450]

@eldrin.6471 said:So i would need do all the hearts in sand swept isles for 50 days to get the 250 Difluorite Crystals ?

No, you need to complete 50 hearts. So If you did just one heart each day, then yes it would take 50 days. Or you could do all 4 hearts on the map each day, and it would take 13 days.

Even better than that, would be doing each heart AND mining the nodes as you run past them AND doing the two meta events if they pop up while you're on the map, as they also reward you with difluorite. If you have multiple characters, you can do the hearts on each of them and speed it up further, although not everyone has the patience for that. I had a bit of difluorite left over in the bank when i started (maybe about 50) and I only really needed maybe 2-3 hours one evening to finish off the full stack. might take a bit longer or shorter for some people depending on how well you know each heart, but it's certainly not a 50 day job unless you only do the minimum amount possible each day.

[Nemezijus.6851]

My bad, there are 4 hearts on the map.So for one character: 4hearts x 5 crystals = 20 crystals per day + short mining (5 crystals) + 5 crystals from Dragonfall = at least 30 crystals per day [20-30 mins] TOTAL 9 daystwo meta events = 10 more crystals per character per day. Thats 40 crystals per day per character. TOTAL 7 daysif you have more than one lvl 80 character it can take a few days, maybe even one. But don't burn out by rushing this.

[eldrin.6471]

if this mount and collection is about getting players on living world season 4 maps why am i needing to go back to crystal desert for 500 trade contracts?gets worse by the moment.

[Nemezijus.6851]

@eldrin.6471 said:if this mount and collection is about getting players on living world season 4 maps why am i needing to go back to crystal desert for 500 trade contracts?gets worse by the moment.

Well you can't play in LS4 maps without owning Path of Fire, so that is not an unexpected requirement. Getting trade contracts is the least of the problems here. Literally any chest in PoF maps, any PoF daily, adventure (including griffon challenges) gives you these contracts. Also if you have any Tyrian Exchange Voucher from black lion chests, use them to get 250 of those contracts per voucher.

[eldrin.6471]

@Nemezijus.6851 said:

@eldrin.6471 said:if this mount and collection is about getting players on living world season 4 maps why am i needing to go back to crystal desert for 500 trade contracts?gets worse by the moment.

Well you can't play in LS4 maps without owning Path of Fire, so that is not an unexpected requirement. Getting trade contracts is the least of the problems here. Literally any chest in PoF maps, any PoF daily, adventure (including griffon challenges) gives you these contracts. Also if you have any Tyrian Exchange Voucher from black lion chests, use them to get 250 of those contracts per voucher.

i didnt expect any of this.but i at least now know were to get whats needed.Would rather have got to play on the new map.

[Amineo.8951]

Call me lazy but I don't find the reasons behind getting this mount justified at all, it's a mini-legendary without any skill involved (which is the reason why I got Legendary Armor and Ascension in the 1st place) what a bummer really, especially when other MMOs are getting their expansions and the good games next month that will be infinitely more fun to play than this.

[eldrin.6471]

@Amineo.8951 said:Call me lazy but I don't find the reasons behind getting this mount justified at all, it's a mini-legendary without any skill involved (which is the reason why I got Legendary Armor and Ascension in the 1st place) what a bummer really, especially when other MMOs are getting their expansions and the good games next month that will be infinitely more fun to play than this.

The people that already had the currency's come to this thread and say they dont mind this grind think only of themselves. If collection is kept the way it is it will be more exclusive..But is this collection good for the long term future of the game? Not from were im standing.

[Amineo.8951]

@eldrin.6471 said:

@"Amineo.8951" said:Call me lazy but I don't find the reasons behind getting this mount justified at all, it's a mini-legendary without any skill involved (which is the reason why I got Legendary Armor and Ascension in the 1st place) what a bummer really, especially when other MMOs are getting their expansions and the good games next month that will be infinitely more fun to play than this.

The people that already had the currency's come to this thread and say they dont mind this grind think only of themselves. If collection is kept the way it is it will be more exclusive..But is this collection good for the long term future of the game? Not from were im standing.

This collection is just their way of keeping players busy because they don't know wtf they're going to do for LS Season 5 (it's obvious after "A War Eternal" ending, GW2 could've ended right there), IMO it's a big deal because like I said, the next months are packed on games and expansions, they'll lose people like this since they don't wanna waste their time for something which is not even close to being valuable or useful (and fun more importantly) as the Skyscale is arguably the worst mount they ever made in terms of gameplay.

[Ototo.3214]

@eldrin.6471 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:Call me lazy but I don't find the reasons behind getting this mount justified at all, it's a mini-legendary without any skill involved (which is the reason why I got Legendary Armor and Ascension in the 1st place) what a bummer really, especially when other MMOs are getting their expansions and the good games next month that will be infinitely more fun to play than this.

The people that already had the currency's come to this thread and say they dont mind this grind think only of themselves. If collection is kept the way it is it will be more exclusive..But is this collection good for the long term future of the game? Not from were im standing.

I started from virtually no currency and got mine over the course of a few days. I didn't mind it at all. Was nice having a reason to play on those maps when people are actually on them doing things.

[eldrin.6471]

@Ototo.3214 said:

@eldrin.6471 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:Call me lazy but I don't find the reasons behind getting this mount justified at all, it's a mini-legendary without any skill involved (which is the reason why I got Legendary Armor and Ascension in the 1st place) what a bummer really, especially when other MMOs are getting their expansions and the good games next month that will be infinitely more fun to play than this.

The people that already had the currency's come to this thread and say they dont mind this grind think only of themselves. If collection is kept the way it is it will be more exclusive..But is this collection good for the long term future of the game? Not from were im standing.

I started from virtually no currency and got mine over the course of a few days. I didn't mind it at all. Was nice having a reason to play on those maps when people are actually on them doing things.

Do you perhaps have multiple characters? because i went to sand swept isle and done the hearts and meta for a grand total of 30 Difluorite Crystals .and that took me 2 hours. I play one character and this will take a very long time. not fun

[Ototo.3214]

@eldrin.6471 said:

@Ototo.3214 said:

@eldrin.6471 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:Call me lazy but I don't find the reasons behind getting this mount justified at all, it's a mini-legendary without any skill involved (which is the reason why I got Legendary Armor and Ascension in the 1st place) what a bummer really, especially when other MMOs are getting their expansions and the good games next month that will be infinitely more fun to play than this.

The people that already had the currency's come to this thread and say they dont mind this grind think only of themselves. If collection is kept the way it is it will be more exclusive..But is this collection good for the long term future of the game? Not from were im standing.

I started from virtually no currency and got mine over the course of a few days. I didn't mind it at all. Was nice having a reason to play on those maps when people are actually on them doing things.

Do you perhaps have multiple characters? because i went to sand swept isle and done the hearts and meta for a grand total of 30 Difluorite Crystals .and that took me 2 hours. I play one character and this will take a very long time. not fun

I have multiple characters but only really got extra hearts on maybe 3 or 4 characters. Did most of it on my main. If you only got 30 crystals, that sounds like you didn't farm any nodes since the hearts will give you 20 and both metas yield 12 combined if you do both. There are tons of nodes with a unique icon on the mini map. You can buy 5 per day in the new map as well.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Finished the skyscale this morning, and I noticed a few things. Even though I took my time on this collection, and didn't go full wild on farming or anything, I reached a point where I just wanted it to be over.

Last night I started the Lost section. Now I've done all the JPs on that list (mostly for legendaries) and have been to all the POIs called out, like Glints legacy. I had the mats to make all the treats I needed to skip every step, but instead saw doing them myself as a way of saving myself 4g. Killed the behemoth and did a few of the JPs, but then something happened: I was struggling to find the entrance to Griffonrook Run, a JP I did most recently for Sunrise I believe. I just couldn't find the underwater tunnel, even though I've been there before. And I just lost it. I opened my inventory and used a treat to finish. I then found myself trying to make my way up to Glints Legacy, and again, just lost my patience and used the treat. I just wanted it to be over. In the end I think I used like 6-7 treats, all to complete tasks that I've done before, but just couldn't bear to do them again, at this time, as I wanted this collection to be over.

Next up was the Stealth and Reflexes. Now, those were cute...but they would have been equally cute if all I had to do was find the Skyscale like 5 times and throw the ball 5 times. But by the 15th game of hide and seek or tossing a ball, it wasn't cute anymore - it was just tedious, and I wanted it to be over.

Then it was time for the saddle, and I had all the mats. Easy porting, ty for not making these items purchasable from heart vendors (which would require additional work), though giving one of these items to Elisa was a bit of a kitten move. There were several players on the map I was on struggling to find her. Seriously, kitten move.

And then it was time to do flying lessons. After the first dozen or so, I was already typing in the way point code for the next step while the progress bar was filling up at the rift. I had allocated a certain amount of time for this, and was running late and needed to leave for another obligation, but I kept going because I wanted it to be over.

Took it casual.Didn't set a date for completion.But towards the end I found myself rushing just because I just wanted this collection to be over with.

Next time ANET, you need to do better.

I think it's fair to say that overall, the response to this collection has been either neutral or negative, which in my book is a failure. You're not going to please everyone all the time of course, but this time, I think you pleased a very small portion of players, and everyone else is either annoyed, angered, or neutral.

Making the collection unnecessarily long doesn't make it content.Cute, immersive, and engaging can all be achieved without artificially prolonging a task. Playing hide and seek was fun. Doing it like 25 times was not. Flying lessons was fun, but doing it 28 times was not.Making something take longer doesn't make it more fun, doesn't show more skill, knowledge or aptitude, and doesn't make it feel more like an achievement - it's just tedious.

Sure it shows dedication, and you often would see that for prestige items like Legendaries or certain titles. Are mounts now going to be considered prestige items instead of the QoL tools they heretofore have been?

Nothing about this collection was "hard", it was, as I've said many times, just tedious.

So that's ultimately my feedback for this collection: I was interested in the mount, and started the collection at my own pace, but about 2/3rds of the way, I just wanted it to be over as quickly as possible so I could escape the tedium.

[eldrin.6471]

@"Turkeyspit.3965" said:Finished the skyscale this morning, and I noticed a few things. Even though I took my time on this collection, and didn't go full wild on farming or anything, I reached a point where I just wanted it to be over.

Last night I started the Lost section. Now I've done all the JPs on that list (mostly for legendaries) and have been to all the POIs called out, like Glints legacy. I had the mats to make all the treats I needed to skip every step, but instead saw doing them myself as a way of saving myself 4g. Killed the behemoth and did a few of the JPs, but then something happened: I was struggling to find the entrance to Griffonrook Run, a JP I did most recently for Sunrise I believe. I just couldn't find the underwater tunnel, even though I've been there before. And I just lost it. I opened my inventory and used a treat to finish. I then found myself trying to make my way up to Glints Legacy, and again, just lost my patience and used the treat. I just wanted it to be over. In the end I think I used like 6-7 treats, all to complete tasks that I've done before, but just couldn't bear to do them again, at this time, as I wanted this collection to be over.

Next up was the Stealth and Reflexes. Now, those were cute...but they would have been equally cute if all I had to do was find the Skyscale like 5 times and throw the ball 5 times. But by the 15th game of hide and seek or tossing a ball, it wasn't cute anymore - it was just tedious, and I wanted it to be over.

Then it was time for the saddle, and I had all the mats. Easy porting, ty for not making these items purchasable from heart vendors (which would require additional work), though giving one of these items to Elisa was a bit of a kitten move. There were several players on the map I was on struggling to find her. Seriously, kitten move.

And then it was time to do flying lessons. After the first dozen or so, I was already typing in the way point code for the next step while the progress bar was filling up at the rift. I had allocated a certain amount of time for this, and was running late and needed to leave for another obligation, but I kept going because I wanted it to be over.

Took it casual.Didn't set a date for completion.But towards the end I found myself rushing just because I just wanted this collection to be over with.

Next time ANET, you need to do better.

I think it's fair to say that overall, the response to this collection has been either neutral or negative, which in my book is a failure. You're not going to please everyone all the time of course, but this time, I think you pleased a very small portion of players, and everyone else is either annoyed, angered, or neutral.

Making the collection unnecessarily long doesn't make it content.Cute, immersive, and engaging can all be achieved without artificially prolonging a task. Playing hide and seek was fun. Doing it like 25 times was not. Flying lessons was fun, but doing it 28 times was not.Making something take longer doesn't make it more fun, doesn't show more skill, knowledge or aptitude, and doesn't make it feel more like an achievement - it's just tedious.

Sure it shows dedication, and you often would see that for prestige items like Legendaries or certain titles. Are mounts now going to be considered prestige items instead of the QoL tools they heretofore have been?

Nothing about this collection was "hard", it was, as I've said many times, just tedious.

So that's ultimately my feedback for this collection: I was interested in the mount, and started the collection at my own pace, but about 2/3rds of the way, I just wanted it to be over as quickly as possible so I could escape the tedium.

So you had the map currency's needed for saddle? I think that makes a big difference, up to that point i could handle it. I will be several weeks farming these currency's and would far rather have spent that time on new map,not back on old maps i already done.took me 2 hours to get 30 from sand swept isles.Some people got lucky and had the currency's in anticipation of new trinket,and i think if that were not the case the backlash to this collection would have forced a change.