Berserk canceling

[rdigeri.7935]

The main problem of Berserker is the lack of control over when Berserk ends, so be it an invincible phase of a boss, or a pvp enemy disengaging, zerker becomes less effective.

I propose a new F2 skill that ends Berserk consumes all adrenaline, and lowers the cooldown by half of the remaining time of Berserk upon activation. For example, if you had 10 seconds left in berserk, the cooldown of it will be 15-(10/2)=10, if you had 2 seconds left, it's 15-(2/2)=14. This'd give Berserker some much needed adaptability.

Additionally, it could be another lvl3 burst skill with low damage, so that it has synergy with the according traits.

[TheBravery.9615]

I'd be ok with this idea

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@rdigeri.7935 said:The main problem of Berserker is the lack of control over when Berserk ends, so be it an invincible phase of a boss, or a pvp enemy disengaging, zerker becomes less effective.

I propose a new F2 skill that ends Berserk consumes all adrenaline, and lowers the cooldown by half of the remaining time of Berserk upon activation. For example, if you had 10 seconds left in berserk, the cooldown of it will be 15-(10/2)=10, if you had 2 seconds left, it's 15-(2/2)=14. This'd give Berserker some much needed adaptability.

Additionally, it could be another lvl3 burst skill with low damage, so that it has synergy with the according traits.

Why make it a low damage burst? Make it hit like a truck relative to the time remaining, that way you have the option of sustained DPS in Berserk Mode, or end it earlier for a single huge hit. Better yet make the ending attack the Primal Burst of the weapon equipped but with a scaling modifier on damage relative to the amount of time left in Berserk Mode. It would certainly be thematic for the spec.

[Opopanax.1803]

I'm down with anything that lets me use finishers more frequently.

There is something lame about loading all of your heal, utilities, and elite into berzerker duration, and then having a huge dry spell where you don't have utilities available to you and no finishers.

[rdigeri.7935]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:The main problem of Berserker is the lack of control over when Berserk ends, so be it an invincible phase of a boss, or a pvp enemy disengaging, zerker becomes less effective.

I propose a new F2 skill that ends Berserk consumes all adrenaline, and lowers the cooldown by half of the remaining time of Berserk upon activation. For example, if you had 10 seconds left in berserk, the cooldown of it will be 15-(10/2)=10, if you had 2 seconds left, it's 15-(2/2)=14. This'd give Berserker some much needed adaptability.

Additionally, it could be another lvl3 burst skill with low damage, so that it has synergy with the according traits.

Why make it a low damage burst? Make it hit like a truck relative to the time remaining, that way you have the option of sustained DPS in Berserk Mode, or end it earlier for a single huge hit. Better yet make the ending attack the Primal Burst of the weapon equipped but with a scaling modifier on damage relative to the amount of time left in Berserk Mode. It would certainly be thematic for the spec.

Yeah that's not bad tooI don't mind whether it's high or low damage, as long as it lets me cancel Berserk to call upon it sooner again

Potentially, if you enter Berserk and use one burst, then leave instantly, you'll have like 15-(13/2)=8.5 second cooldown on Berserk, so you could use your Primal skills almost as often as regular burst skills on core, you just need a full bar of adrenaline. Or if you stay in Berserk, you need less adrenaline but the cd is more afterwards. So this'd give a depth to the whole thing

[Sobx.1758]

@rdigeri.7935 said:The main problem of Berserker is the lack of control over when Berserk ends, so be it an invincible phase of a boss, or a pvp enemy disengaging, zerker becomes less effective.

I propose a new F2 skill that ends Berserk consumes all adrenaline, and lowers the cooldown by half of the remaining time of Berserk upon activation. For example, if you had 10 seconds left in berserk, the cooldown of it will be 15-(10/2)=10, if you had 2 seconds left, it's 15-(2/2)=14. This'd give Berserker some much needed adaptability.

Additionally, it could be another lvl3 burst skill with low damage, so that it has synergy with the according traits.

Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

[rdigeri.7935]

@Sobx.1758 said:Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Well, you wanna sacrifice an utility slot for something every berserker should be able to do?But utility is still better than nothing

[Sobx.1758]

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Well, you wanna sacrifice an utility slot for something every berserker should be able to do?But utility is still better than nothing

"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Well, you wanna sacrifice an utility slot for something every berserker should be able to do?But utility is still better than nothing

"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

OutrageNo cast time. 10s recharge. Range 450.Breaks out of stun.If you are in Berserk mode, lose all adrenaline, striking all nearby foes (coefficient of 2) and infliciting 1 stack of burn (4s) per point of adrenaline spent.Berserk mode's recharge is reduced based on the amount of adrenaline lost.

That way you get an attack off, more burn for Condi builds, can get back into Berserk mode in 5 seconds, and can cycle through outrage and Berserk mode if you want.

Disclaimer: I was just presenting what a utility would look like based on the conversation in this thread I do not myself recommend a utility for this but agree with an F2 cancellation. What would be nice is if there were a F2 skill that does something when OUT of berserk mode.

[Sobx.1758]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Well, you wanna sacrifice an utility slot for something every berserker should be able to do?But utility is still better than nothing

"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

Outrage

No cast time. 10s recharge. Range 450.Breaks out of stun.If you are in Berserk mode, lose all adrenaline, striking all nearby foes (coefficient of 2) and infliciting 1 stack of burn (4s) per point of adrenaline spent.Berserk mode's recharge is reduced based on the amount of adrenaline lost.

That way you get an attack off, more burn for Condi builds, can get back into Berserk mode in 5 seconds, and can cycle through outrage and Berserk mode if you want.

Disclaimer: I was just presenting what a utility would look like based on the conversation in this thread I do not myself recommend a utility for this but agree with an F2 cancellation. What would be nice is if there were a F2 skill that does something when OUT of berserk mode.

Pretty sure that would still need a considerably longer cd than 10 seconds.

[Zexanima.7851]

I think this would be fine if berserker sacrificed some damage for the utility. Right now there is counter play around berserker mode because of the lock out but if you get caught by it you're most likely dead. High risk, high reward. You have to time things right. If they have to worry less about timing it shouldn't be as high a damage reward.

[rdigeri.7935]

@"Sobx.1758" said:"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

There's no other spec that has no control over when their mechanic ends.

@"Zexanima.7851" said:I think this would be fine if berserker sacrificed some damage for the utility. Right now there is counter play around berserker mode because of the lock out but if you get caught by it you're most likely dead. High risk, high reward. You have to time things right. If they have to worry less about timing it shouldn't be as high a damage reward.

Hmm that's a real issue. Although with this f2 mechanic, you would sacrifice uptime for cd reduction, so technically the uptime is shortened, it's just that Berserker gets some adaptability that's needed in high level play. In pvp, fighting Berserker is still about kiting out their Berserk, a berserker pressing f2 is just "come at me, i can't burst now". However, they have some control over when they can afford to be useless.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Well, you wanna sacrifice an utility slot for something every berserker should be able to do?But utility is still better than nothing

"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

Outrage

No cast time. 10s recharge. Range 450.Breaks out of stun.If you are in Berserk mode, lose all adrenaline, striking all nearby foes (coefficient of 2) and infliciting 1 stack of burn (4s) per point of adrenaline spent.Berserk mode's recharge is reduced based on the amount of adrenaline lost.

That way you get an attack off, more burn for Condi builds, can get back into Berserk mode in 5 seconds, and can cycle through outrage and Berserk mode if you want.

Disclaimer: I was just presenting what a utility would look like based on the conversation in this thread I do not myself recommend a utility for this but agree with an F2 cancellation. What would be nice is if there were a F2 skill that does something when OUT of berserk mode.

Pretty sure that would still need a considerably longer cd than 10 seconds.

Pretty sure it would need 10s cd to even be useful for cancelling Berserk Mode. But like I said an F2 is what is needed.

[Sobx.1758]

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

There's no other spec that has no control over when their mechanic ends.

Not that it really matters (because "no other class has this" is not even a valid argument), but what about deadeye?

@"Zexanima.7851" said:I think this would be fine if berserker sacrificed some damage for the utility. Right now there is counter play around berserker mode because of the lock out but if you get caught by it you're most likely dead. High risk, high reward. You have to time things right. If they have to worry less about timing it shouldn't be as high a damage reward.

Hmm that's a real issue. Although with this f2 mechanic, you would sacrifice uptime for cd reduction, so technically the uptime is shortened, it's just that Berserker gets some adaptability that's needed in high level play. In pvp, fighting Berserker is still about kiting out their Berserk, a berserker pressing f2 is just "come at me, i can't burst now". However, they have some control over when they can afford to be useless.

Oh look at that, suddenly it's a "real issue" :oAnd no, you wouldn't "sacrifice uptime" -you would just turn it off whenever you don't need it anymore. There's nothing you'd "sacrifice" there, so stop pretending. The only reason you'd want that to be "a thing" is to minimize ANY sacrifice, counterplay or risk. Literally what I already said in this thread:

Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Now stop pretending it's not true.

---

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Well, you wanna sacrifice an utility slot for something every berserker should be able to do?But utility is still better than nothing

"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

Outrage

No cast time. 10s recharge. Range 450.Breaks out of stun.If you are in Berserk mode, lose all adrenaline, striking all nearby foes (coefficient of 2) and infliciting 1 stack of burn (4s) per point of adrenaline spent.Berserk mode's recharge is reduced based on the amount of adrenaline lost.

That way you get an attack off, more burn for Condi builds, can get back into Berserk mode in 5 seconds, and can cycle through outrage and Berserk mode if you want.

Disclaimer: I was just presenting what a utility would look like based on the conversation in this thread I do not myself recommend a utility for this but agree with an F2 cancellation. What would be nice is if there were a F2 skill that does something when OUT of berserk mode.

Pretty sure that would still need a considerably longer cd than 10 seconds.

Pretty sure it would need 10s cd to even be useful for cancelling Berserk Mode. But like I said an F2 is what is needed.

Why would longer cd make it any less useful for cancelling berk mode? You wanted more control, that skill would give you just that, but at the same time you'd need to make a decision instead of just spamming it nilly-willy with little to no repercussions. Suddenly longer cd would magically make cancelling berk not worth it? That makes no sense.As I said, all you want is no drawbacks or risks for the berk steroid, which for obvious (or so I thought) reasons is a terrible idea design-wise.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

There's no other spec that has no control over when their mechanic ends.

Not that it really matters (because "no other class has this" is not even a valid argument), but what about deadeye?

@"Zexanima.7851" said:I think this would be fine if berserker sacrificed some damage for the utility. Right now there is counter play around berserker mode because of the lock out but if you get caught by it you're most likely dead. High risk, high reward. You have to time things right. If they have to worry less about timing it shouldn't be as high a damage reward.

Hmm that's a real issue. Although with this f2 mechanic, you would sacrifice uptime for cd reduction, so technically the uptime is shortened, it's just that Berserker gets some adaptability that's needed in high level play. In pvp, fighting Berserker is still about kiting out their Berserk, a berserker pressing f2 is just "come at me, i can't burst now". However, they have some control over when they can afford to be useless.

Oh look at that, suddenly it's a "real issue" :oAnd no, you wouldn't "sacrifice uptime" -you would just turn it off whenever you don't need it anymore. There's nothing you'd "sacrifice" there, so stop pretending. The only reason you'd want that to be "a thing" is to minimize ANY sacrifice, counterplay or risk. Literally what I already said in this thread:

Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Now stop pretending it's not true.

---

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Well, you wanna sacrifice an utility slot for something every berserker should be able to do?But utility is still better than nothing

"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

Outrage

No cast time. 10s recharge. Range 450.Breaks out of stun.If you are in Berserk mode, lose all adrenaline, striking all nearby foes (coefficient of 2) and infliciting 1 stack of burn (4s) per point of adrenaline spent.Berserk mode's recharge is reduced based on the amount of adrenaline lost.

That way you get an attack off, more burn for Condi builds, can get back into Berserk mode in 5 seconds, and can cycle through outrage and Berserk mode if you want.

Disclaimer: I was just presenting what a utility would look like based on the conversation in this thread I do not myself recommend a utility for this but agree with an F2 cancellation. What would be nice is if there were a F2 skill that does something when OUT of berserk mode.

Pretty sure that would still need a considerably longer cd than 10 seconds.

Pretty sure it would need 10s cd to even be useful for cancelling Berserk Mode. But like I said an F2 is what is needed.

Why would longer cd make it any less useful for cancelling berk mode? You wanted more control, that skill would give you just that, but at the same time you'd need to make a decision instead of just spamming it nilly-willy with little to no repercussions. Suddenly longer cd would magically make cancelling berk not worth it? That makes no sense.As I said, all you want is no drawbacks or risks for the berk steroid, which for obvious (or so I thought) reasons is a terrible idea design-wise.

And yet cancelling Berserk Mode with a separate attack would result in loss of stats and damage. The actual tradeoff is the loss of core F1 bursts and the toughness penalty in Berserk Mode, not the poor management. Those would not change so your last statement is false.

[rdigeri.7935]

@"Sobx.1758" said:Not that it really matters (because "no other class has this" is not even a valid argument), but what about deadeye?

Deadeye's Mark goes on cd instantly, it does not count as a "state" when someone is marked. And while it's true not everything has to work in similar ways, but the whole point is to make berserker more enjoyable, and this is in the way of that.

Oh look at that, suddenly it's a "real issue" :oAnd no, you wouldn't "sacrifice uptime" -you would just turn it off whenever you don't need it anymore. There's nothing you'd "sacrifice" there, so stop pretending. The only reason you'd want that to be "a thing" is to minimize ANY sacrifice, counterplay or risk. Literally what I already said in this thread:

Let me just bring an example to why this would be good okay?

Without canceling available:-something attacks berserker-berserker either fights handicapped or activates berserk-when berserk activates, berserker is instantly kited-berserk runs out-berserker fights handicapped.

With canceling available:-something attacks berserker-berserker either fights handicapped or activates berserk-when berserk activates, berserker is instantly kited-the berserker can choose to chase, or to end berserk and fight handicapped, but cd is reduced so he can use berserk sooner than usually-the more time spent in berserk trying to chase, the less cd reduction, giving the berserker a bigger window to be pressured.

Which one seems more interesting to you?

In every single gamemode berserkers can make use of this, there's not a single berserker build that this is useless to.

Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Now stop pretending it's not true.

There IS a downside. Leaving Berserk and losing all Adrenaline. You know, you should imagine reapers having to stay in shroud until it runs out.. maybe then you'll understand why this makes sense.

[Sobx.1758]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

There's no other spec that has no control over when their mechanic ends.

Not that it really matters (because "no other class has this" is not even a valid argument), but what about deadeye?

@"Zexanima.7851" said:I think this would be fine if berserker sacrificed some damage for the utility. Right now there is counter play around berserker mode because of the lock out but if you get caught by it you're most likely dead. High risk, high reward. You have to time things right. If they have to worry less about timing it shouldn't be as high a damage reward.

Hmm that's a real issue. Although with this f2 mechanic, you would sacrifice uptime for cd reduction, so technically the uptime is shortened, it's just that Berserker gets some adaptability that's needed in high level play. In pvp, fighting Berserker is still about kiting out their Berserk, a berserker pressing f2 is just "come at me, i can't burst now". However, they have some control over when they can afford to be useless.

Oh look at that, suddenly it's a "real issue" :oAnd no, you wouldn't "sacrifice uptime" -you would just turn it off whenever you don't need it anymore. There's nothing you'd "sacrifice" there, so stop pretending. The only reason you'd want that to be "a thing" is to minimize ANY sacrifice, counterplay or risk. Literally what I already said in this thread:

Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Now stop pretending it's not true.

---

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Well, you wanna sacrifice an utility slot for something every berserker should be able to do?But utility is still better than nothing

"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

Outrage

No cast time. 10s recharge. Range 450.Breaks out of stun.If you are in Berserk mode, lose all adrenaline, striking all nearby foes (coefficient of 2) and infliciting 1 stack of burn (4s) per point of adrenaline spent.Berserk mode's recharge is reduced based on the amount of adrenaline lost.

That way you get an attack off, more burn for Condi builds, can get back into Berserk mode in 5 seconds, and can cycle through outrage and Berserk mode if you want.

Disclaimer: I was just presenting what a utility would look like based on the conversation in this thread I do not myself recommend a utility for this but agree with an F2 cancellation. What would be nice is if there were a F2 skill that does something when OUT of berserk mode.

Pretty sure that would still need a considerably longer cd than 10 seconds.

Pretty sure it would need 10s cd to even be useful for cancelling Berserk Mode. But like I said an F2 is what is needed.

Why would longer cd make it any less useful for cancelling berk mode? You wanted more control, that skill would give you just that, but at the same time you'd need to make a decision instead of just spamming it nilly-willy with little to no repercussions. Suddenly longer cd would magically make cancelling berk not worth it? That makes no sense.As I said, all you want is no drawbacks or risks for the berk steroid, which for obvious (or so I thought) reasons is a terrible idea design-wise.

And yet cancelling Berserk Mode with a separate attack would result in loss of stats and damage. The actual tradeoff is the loss of core F1 bursts and the toughness penalty in Berserk Mode, not the poor management. Those would not change so your last statement is false.

No, it's not. You proposed that using the skill to come out of berk reduces the berk cooldown (to pretty much non-existant, I think you can at least agree with that?). You're trying to remove the downside and I'm still not sure how what I said is false?So yes, the trade-off is the loss of core f1 bursts, but when you remove the cooldown, it actually removes that trade-off, doesn't it? As I said mutliple times in this thread already, all you want is no risk on activating your berk steroid.

[Sobx.1758]

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Not that it really matters (because "no other class has this" is not even a valid argument), but what about deadeye?

Deadeye's Mark goes on cd instantly, it does not count as a "state" when someone is marked. And while it's true not everything has to work in similar ways, but the whole point is to make berserker more enjoyable, and this is in the way of that.

Which doesn't change the fact that you can literally mark a single person and then you're out of luck for next 25 seconds if you want to change the target. How is "going on cd immediately" relevant here?Putting (almost)every trait from every spec as an inherent class passive would make them "more enjoyable", which doesn't mean it's a valid solution or a good thing for the game as a whole to do. Weak pseudo-argument that can be said about literally any buff in any game in existance.

Oh look at that, suddenly it's a "real issue" :oAnd no, you wouldn't "sacrifice uptime" -you would just turn it off whenever you don't need it anymore. There's nothing you'd "sacrifice" there, so stop pretending. The only reason you'd want that to be "a thing" is to minimize ANY sacrifice, counterplay or risk. Literally what I already said in this thread:

Let me just bring an example to why this would be good okay?

Without canceling available:-something attacks berserker-berserker either fights handicapped or activates berserk-when berserk activates, berserker is instantly kited-berserk runs out-berserker fights handicapped.

With canceling available:-something attacks berserker-berserker either fights handicapped or activates berserk-when berserk activates, berserker is instantly kited-the berserker can choose to chase, or to end berserk and fight handicapped, but cd is reduced so he can use berserk sooner than usually-the more time spent in berserk trying to chase, the less cd reduction, giving the berserker a bigger window to be pressured.

Which one seems more interesting to you?

In every single gamemode berserkers can make use of this, there's not a single berserker build that this is useless to.

As much as I don't like this format, I feel like it's a decent tl;dr here:*counterplay exists*You: NOT ENJOYABLE! ><

Also removing decision-making and any sort of risk from a steroid which berk mode is would make it way less "interesting". It would make it safer and easier, but interesting? Nope.If you ACTUALLY reread this thread, you'd see I'm not directly opposed to the idea of cancelling the berk mode, but I'm sure as hell opposed of it being a pretty much a part of rotation that removes any risk and cooldowns. Which part is so hard for you to understand that you feel you need to type out a specific "example" to which I literally already responded before (probably in my first post in this thread iirc)?

Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Now stop pretending it's not true.

There IS a downside. Leaving Berserk and losing all Adrenaline. You know, you should imagine reapers having to stay in shroud until it runs out.. maybe then you'll understand why this makes sense.

Again with the stupid comparisons. You should really go ahead and read like 10 previous berserker threads before repeating the cycle.

But hey, while we're at it, you should let me hit you 2 times and force you out of berk mode while you lose all adrenaline. It's almost like class comparisons can be easly bent to any side of the argument... :O

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

There's no other spec that has no control over when their mechanic ends.

Not that it really matters (because "no other class has this" is not even a valid argument), but what about deadeye?

@"Zexanima.7851" said:I think this would be fine if berserker sacrificed some damage for the utility. Right now there is counter play around berserker mode because of the lock out but if you get caught by it you're most likely dead. High risk, high reward. You have to time things right. If they have to worry less about timing it shouldn't be as high a damage reward.

Hmm that's a real issue. Although with this f2 mechanic, you would sacrifice uptime for cd reduction, so technically the uptime is shortened, it's just that Berserker gets some adaptability that's needed in high level play. In pvp, fighting Berserker is still about kiting out their Berserk, a berserker pressing f2 is just "come at me, i can't burst now". However, they have some control over when they can afford to be useless.

Oh look at that, suddenly it's a "real issue" :oAnd no, you wouldn't "sacrifice uptime" -you would just turn it off whenever you don't need it anymore. There's nothing you'd "sacrifice" there, so stop pretending. The only reason you'd want that to be "a thing" is to minimize ANY sacrifice, counterplay or risk. Literally what I already said in this thread:

Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Now stop pretending it's not true.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:Adaptability? All it would do is allow you to turn berserker on, possibly making the enemy use his defensive cds and then turn it off with nearly no downside. Don't make it an f2 skill, IF anything make it a rergular utility slot skill.

Well, you wanna sacrifice an utility slot for something every berserker should be able to do?But utility is still better than nothing

"Should be able to do" or maybe you want it to be able to do because it's a free buff to the spec? Making it a utility slot skill makes it a bit less "free", which is the point here.

Outrage

No cast time. 10s recharge. Range 450.Breaks out of stun.If you are in Berserk mode, lose all adrenaline, striking all nearby foes (coefficient of 2) and infliciting 1 stack of burn (4s) per point of adrenaline spent.Berserk mode's recharge is reduced based on the amount of adrenaline lost.

That way you get an attack off, more burn for Condi builds, can get back into Berserk mode in 5 seconds, and can cycle through outrage and Berserk mode if you want.

Disclaimer: I was just presenting what a utility would look like based on the conversation in this thread I do not myself recommend a utility for this but agree with an F2 cancellation. What would be nice is if there were a F2 skill that does something when OUT of berserk mode.

Pretty sure that would still need a considerably longer cd than 10 seconds.

Pretty sure it would need 10s cd to even be useful for cancelling Berserk Mode. But like I said an F2 is what is needed.

Why would longer cd make it any less useful for cancelling berk mode? You wanted more control, that skill would give you just that, but at the same time you'd need to make a decision instead of just spamming it nilly-willy with little to no repercussions. Suddenly longer cd would magically make cancelling berk not worth it? That makes no sense.As I said, all you want is no drawbacks or risks for the berk steroid, which for obvious (or so I thought) reasons is a terrible idea design-wise.

And yet cancelling Berserk Mode with a separate attack would result in loss of stats and damage. The actual tradeoff is the loss of core F1 bursts and the toughness penalty in Berserk Mode, not the poor management. Those would not change so your last statement is false.

No, it's not. You proposed that using the skill to come out of berk reduces the berk cooldown (to pretty much non-existant, I think you can at least agree with that?). You're trying to remove the downside and I'm still not sure how what I said is false?So yes, the trade-off is the loss of core f1 bursts, but when you remove the cooldown, it actually removes that trade-off, doesn't it? As I said mutliple times in this thread already, all you want is no risk on activating your berk steroid.

The trade off is still there, you're pretending otherwise. The risk on activating BMode will still be there, you are still inverting stata, but under better control.

[rdigeri.7935]

@Sobx.1758 said:No, it's not. You proposed that using the skill to come out of berk reduces the berk cooldown (to pretty much non-existant, I think you can at least agree with that?). You're trying to remove the downside and I'm still not sure how what I said is false?So yes, the trade-off is the loss of core f1 bursts, but when you remove the cooldown, it actually removes that trade-off, doesn't it? As I said mutliple times in this thread already, all you want is no risk on activating your berk steroid.

Actually, you need 3 bars of adrenaline to even activate berserk, so the downside still exists

@Sobx.1758 said:Which doesn't change the fact that you can literally mark a single person and then you're out of luck for next 25 seconds if you want to change the target. How is "going on cd immediately" relevant here?Putting (almost)every trait from every spec as an inherent class passive would make them "more enjoyable", which doesn't mean it's a valid solution or a good thing for the game as a whole to do. Weak pseudo-argument that can be said about literally any buff in any game in existance.

Okay that's a fair point, but even then, Deadeyes have infinite mark uptime, while berserker only achieves that if they take all berserker utilities and are under alacrity.. so against a single target Deadeye is not handicapped, while Berserker is.

As much as I don't like this format, I feel like it's a decent tl;dr here:*counterplay exists*You: NOT ENJOYABLE! ><

The opposite, this is giving the berserker counterplay for kiters.

Also removing decision-making and any sort of risk from a steroid which berk mode is would make it way less "interesting". It would make it safer and easier, but interesting? Nope.

Would fighting against a reaper who can't leave shroud until it is depleted, be more interesting?

If you ACTUALLY reread this thread, you'd see I'm not directly opposed to the idea of cancelling the berk mode, but I'm sure as hell opposed of it being a pretty much a part of rotation that removes any risk and cooldowns. Which part is so hard for you to understand that you feel you need to type out a specific "example" to which I literally already responded before (probably in my first post in this thread iirc)?

How is this part of a rotation?

Again with the stupid comparisons. You should really go ahead and read like 10 previous berserker threads before repeating the cycle.

If you think it's a stupid comparison, go ahead and say why, bring actual information instead of sounding like a know-all tho.

But hey, while we're at it, you should let me hit you 2 times and force you out of berk mode while you lose all adrenaline. It's almost like class comparisons can be easly bent to any side of the argument... :O

I'm not following, what's your point with this?

[Sobx.1758]

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:lmao.Which part of that sentence is hard to understand for you? Point exactly at which point you got lost, I'll gladly help you.

So you're just a dude who takes out their personal problems by insulting others on forums in debates.

That, and the fact how i adressed every one of your points, is why i won't bother until you bring something to the table.

What do you mean? It seems like you're just answering for the sake of answering. I make a pretty clear point and your answer to that is "what's your point"? So I'm asking which parts of my previous posts were so hard to understand? I don't think I said anything overly complicated here, but way to play a victim now.And no, you didn't "adress every one of my points". You quoted them, but you sure as hell didn't respond to them.

[rdigeri.7935]

@Sobx.1758 said:I make a pretty clear pointSay it again then in one sentence, and i'll answer to it.

[Sobx.1758]

@rdigeri.7935 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:I make a pretty clear pointSay it again then in one sentence, and i'll answer to it.

Say what again? Every single sentence from my past few posts that you failed to understand? What's the point? Just go reread them, this time with understanding.

Example of what you do in your posts:I wrote:

Again with the stupid comparisons. You should really go ahead and read like 10 previous berserker threads before repeating the cycle.But hey, while we're at it, you should let me hit you 2 times and force you out of berk mode while you lose all adrenaline. It's almost like class comparisons can be easly bent to any side of the argument... :O

Your answer to this in two seperate quotes is:If you think it's a stupid comparison, go ahead and say why, bring actual information instead of sounding like a know-all tho.(again, I literally explained that in the very same post you answered to, in fact you quoted it directly below)

and then:I'm not following, what's your point with this?Like... w... what? How can anyone not understand 3 lines of text like that? What EXACTLY did you miss from what I wrote?

To recap it again, in case you're still missing something from these 3 lines:I told you comparisons like that are stupid and told you why. You responded with "tell me why they're stupid" and "what's your point here"? That just blows my mind.

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Bonus question: do you even read a post as a whole before responding or are you just hitting "respond" and then read one-sentence-at-the-time and respond to each individually? Because tbh 'm not sure how otherwise you managed to lose context there.

[rdigeri.7935]

Bit more than a sentence but here i go.

What i didn't catch is the shroud reference with the 2 hits.

Alright, let's say it's a stupid comparison. Does it make having an f2 wrong? No. So bring one for that one.

[Sobx.1758]

@"rdigeri.7935" said:Bit more than a sentence but here i go.

What i didn't catch is the shroud reference with the 2 hits.

Oh, so it wasn't "just insulting", but you really didn't understand something? Cool.

Alright, let's say it's a stupid comparison. Does it make having an f2 wrong? No. So bring one for that one.

Yes, it does, go reread my previous posts.(that said, in this case, it's still just a matter of opinion)