Scourge and Spellbreaker are the true heroes of PoF

[Loop.8106]

@Sombrero.9204 said:newly introduced classes in GW1 never felt like a huge power creep and the game was overall pretty balanced, and whenever an op build was born it was quickly nerfed to an at least counterable state).I would like to kindly remind you of Onslaught Dervishes :))))

[Foxraging.1269]

@Sombrero.9204 said:Calling Condi mirage cancerous is being stupid, there's no other word. It's litterally the only way a mirage can do decent damage, if you have any issue with how Mirage plays GW2 isn't for you, Mesmers are meant to be annoying to fight against they designed the class only around that, get used to it.

Also spellbreakers and scourge are not needed to counter the builds you mention, first of all many balanced builds counter them heavily and secondly you feel they are needed simply because the game is awfully balanced to begin with. It's way too easy to have an army of boon on yourself at all time for many classes (if not all), way too easy for necromancers in general to bounce way too much conditions and overall the power creep went way too far (and shouldn't have been a thing in the first place, newly introduced classes in GW1 never felt like a huge power creep and the game was overall pretty balanced, and whenever an op build was born it was quickly nerfed to an at least counterable state).

The problem is that the devs have decided since 2012 to completely ignore the community and take forever to "balance" and the balance patches are quite often really underwhelming and change very few details. There has been something like 2 significant balance patches in 5 years so far and weirdly enough nothing really relevant for PoF launch when it was the most needed since basically ever. Scourge and Spellbreakers conceptually are good niche builds/ideas, the numbers they carry on their skills is way too high that's the issue.

For GW1 the dervish was way overpowered and basically unkillable. Ele's were stupid damage cancer. I wouldnt really call that pretty balanced.

Second, the fact that spellbreaker and scourge are causing this much trouble is because its shaking the meta. Give it two more weeks and peopl will have new builds to crush them with. Changing metas are good things.

[Harry Foud.1935]

@Arheundel.6451 said:Reaching out to the devs.....Scourge and Spellbreaker are absolutely essential to the game

All that boon ripping/corruption/punishment keeps at bay all the cancerous builds created post PoF, that would be let free to join the other cancerous builds from HoT meta in case Scourge and Spellbreaker ar taken out:

-condition mirage/chrono-dragonhunter/ bunker firebrand/ burning burst firebrand-tanky holosmith/tanky scrapper-staff mender druid

The specs above require very little effort to stay alive and perform extremely well even when you have multiple version of them in a team, they make the game boring, slow, unenjoyable. Scourge and Spellbreaker are the heroes of this expansion because they've brought a so much needed change of gameplay , a gameplay that has remained static for the last 3 years, boonbot stealthing/block spammers bunkers with plethora of CC/aoe trap crap.

Both these specs are devastating no doubt but the amount of counterplay they offer is unparalleled , truly a great job on the devs part: in case they both get nerfed....we will need massive nerfs to HoT specs and some PoF ones ( holosmith-mirage-firebrand), that's what I think.

-Scourge has only barrier as defense, virtually no stability, no charge...just loads of zoning and that makes them extremely vulnerable to ranged burst dmg ( no like pre-nerf reapers)-Spellbreakers...90% of what they are is "full counter", very visible , enough to bait and dodge and after that spellbreaker is even weaker than core war

So...why that hate about Scourge and Spellbreaker?.....they are anti-cheese builds: that's what I love about them, that's what many like me wanted for years - a direct hardcounter to all cheese in game ( and we still need even more hardcounrters to stealth cheesers and boonbot bunkers)

This is by far the most absurd thing anyone ever said about this game. Everyone in this forum is now more stupid cause of that. Scourge and Spellbreaker are by far the most broken classes atm. Every Spellbreaker is immortal with the dagger/shiel-gs build and Scourges win 1v3. But yeah keep telling yourself that.

[Crinn.7864]

@Exciton.8942 said:At least daredevil and mirage take skills to play well, you will never get queues flooded with them even if they are strong.

That's poor consolation for those of us in platinum that have to deal with untouchable daredevils running circles around everyone and murdering everything.

[Hana.8143]

You can't just say it's good as it is right now, yes spellbreaker is good against boons and scourges good against boons and conditions, but they way it is right now makes the game even worst. Scourges has even more conditions than regular reaper / necro, and spellbreaker enters godmode because of the low cd of full counter.

Yes those specs are great, but nope, they still need nerfs.You can't just counter strong builds by having even stronger builds around, it's not the way to balance a game.

Also Scourges and Spellbreakers are not different from other cheesy specs, when I found myself in a fight with scourge or spellbreaker, there's nothing I can really do. Too much conditions or too much regeneration (healing signet + adrenal health are broken af)

[Aomine.5012]

@Harry Foud.1935 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Reaching out to the devs.....

Scourge and Spellbreaker are absolutely essential to the game

All that boon ripping/corruption/punishment keeps at bay all the cancerous builds created post PoF, that would be let free to join the other cancerous builds from HoT meta in case Scourge and Spellbreaker ar taken out:

-condition mirage/chrono-dragonhunter/ bunker firebrand/ burning burst firebrand-tanky holosmith/tanky scrapper-staff mender druid

The specs above require very little effort to stay alive and perform extremely well even when you have multiple version of them in a team,

they make the game boring, slow, unenjoyable

. Scourge and Spellbreaker are the heroes of this expansion because they've brought a so much needed change of gameplay , a gameplay that has remained static for the last 3 years, boonbot stealthing/block spammers bunkers with plethora of CC/aoe trap crap.

Both these specs are devastating no doubt but the amount of counterplay they offer is unparalleled , truly a great job on the devs part: in case they both get nerfed....we will need massive nerfs to HoT specs and some PoF ones ( holosmith-mirage-firebrand), that's what I think.

-Scourge has only barrier as defense, virtually no stability, no charge...just loads of zoning and that makes them extremely vulnerable to ranged burst dmg ( no like pre-nerf reapers)-Spellbreakers...90% of what they are is "full counter", very visible , enough to bait and dodge and after that spellbreaker is even weaker than core war

So...why that hate about Scourge and Spellbreaker?.....

they are anti-cheese builds

: that's what I love about them, that's what many like me wanted for years - a direct hardcounter to all cheese in game ( and we still need even more hardcounrters to stealth cheesers and boonbot bunkers)

This is by far the most absurd thing anyone ever said about this game. Everyone in this forum is now more stupid cause of that. Scourge and Spellbreaker are by far the most broken classes atm. Every Spellbreaker is immortal with the dagger/shiel-gs build and Scourges win 1v3. But yeah keep telling yourself that.

Scourge will help a 3 v 3 or 3 v 4 fight win, but unless the opponent is complete garbage, 2 people is more than enough to spike down a lone Scourge.They don't have the tool to live the focus fire.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Hana.8143 said:You can't just say it's good as it is right now, yes spellbreaker is good against boons and scourges good against boons and conditions, but they way it is right now makes the game even worst. Scourges has even more conditions than regular reaper / necro, and spellbreaker enters godmode because of the low cd of full counter.

Yes those specs are great, but nope, they still need nerfs.You can't just counter strong builds by having even stronger builds around, it's not the way to balance a game.

This is what I don't understand: scourge is far easier to lock down respect to a reaper which is already easy to lock down respect to most classes out there and spellbreaker has only got full counter over core warrior , I'd rather fight a spellbreaker than a core warrior. For spellbreaker their only burst is the full counter and meditation boon rip aoe utility...and yes that dagger hurts but it's not that bad. currently the shades of scourge are bugged and their effects add up...first fix the bugs and then we see

[Erzian.5218]

It doesn't matter when you lock down scourge, though, because all its key skills are instant and can still be used while you are "locked down".

[Harry Foud.1935]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Hana.8143 said:You can't just say it's good as it is right now, yes spellbreaker is good against boons and scourges good against boons and conditions, but they way it is right now makes the game even worst. Scourges has even more conditions than regular reaper / necro, and spellbreaker enters godmode because of the low cd of full counter.

Yes those specs are great, but nope, they still need nerfs.You can't just counter strong builds by having even stronger builds around, it's not the way to balance a game.

This is what I don't understand: scourge is far easier to lock down respect to a reaper which is already easy to lock down respect to most classes out there and spellbreaker has only got full counter over core warrior , I'd rather fight a spellbreaker than a core warrior. For spellbreaker their only burst is the full counter and meditation boon rip aoe utility...and yes that dagger hurts but it's not that bad. currently the shades of scourge are bugged and their effects add up...first fix the bugs and then we see

Try fighting a dagger/shield-gs spellbreaker. they were immortal before with a sword now with the dagger they kill u so easily while u do nothing to them. But yeah "it's not that bad"

[Arheundel.6451]

@Erzian.5218 said:It doesn't matter when you lock down scourge, though, because all its key skills are instant and can still be used while you are "locked down".

I'd agree with you guys if scourge on top of the dmg it does, would have : blocks-heal burst-stealth-pets-mobility...but it's got none of those.If not for the dmg...what would you use scourge for over reaper?

[Erzian.5218]

Scourge was supposed to be a support spec but somehow it has the highest dps in the game and can burst targets from 100 to 0 within seconds. Why they effectively made it an obnoxious version of reaper is beyond me though. They should massively tone down the dps. Then, if there is no option to build a barrier based support spec, improve that. If every elite spec of a class fills the same role, only one of them will see play: The one that fills that role best.Right now there is no reason to play reaper or core nec as scourge is better at everything.

Ranked queues are currently dominated by scourge and spellbreaker. Contrary to dragon hunter, they dominate the high plat and legendary division and not only the lower division. This is a very important detail that the "l2p" faction is conveniently ignoring.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Erzian.5218 said:Scourge was supposed to be a support spec but somehow it has the highest dps in the game and can burst targets from 100 to 0 within seconds. Why they effectively made it an obnoxious version of reaper is beyond me though. They should massively tone down the dps. Then, if there is no option to build a barrier based support spec, improve that. If every elite spec of a class fills the same role, only one of them will see play: The one that fills that role best.Right now there is no reason to play reaper or core nec as scourge is better at everything.

Actually was supposed to be condi/support and reaper for power ( which can do quite well after the buffs, to what full extent I do not know..but enough so far to be a considerable threat 1vs1 ..from personal experience). There is a bug now with shades stacking their effects for multiple condis, the bug will be fixed soon

[Arheundel.6451]

double post

[Erzian.5218]

Even without the shade bug the damage is too high. Most people run the bigger shade trait, which means the maximum amount of procs you can get is two. Perhaps reaper would do quite well (we don't know) but currently it is god awful simply because scourge exists.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Erzian.5218 said:Even without the shade bug the damage is too high. Most people run the bigger shade trait, which means the maximum amount of procs you can get is two. Perhaps reaper would do quite well (we don't know) but currently it is god awful simply because scourge exists.

Exactly how would you keep a high level of threat while lowering the dmg?Right now scourge and spellbreakers act as a dam for the boon avalanche hiding at the horizon , without them...you'd open a very ugly " can of worms" that has not been addressed for years.

If you lower scourge dmg..you have to increase their sustain and same idea of compensation goes for spellbreaker; this compensation will end up doing more harm than good in my opinion

[Erzian.5218]

I don't see why the two overpowered classes do need compensation. They need to be toned down because they are currently too strong. We are not talking about classes that are doing well, we are talking about classes that do too well.There is a reason why they make up 60%+ of most matches. There are hardly any games in legend/plat that do not have at least 6 of the 10 slots occupied by scourge/spellbreaker.

[Harry Foud.1935]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Erzian.5218 said:Even without the shade bug the damage is too high. Most people run the bigger shade trait, which means the maximum amount of procs you can get is two. Perhaps reaper would do quite well (we don't know) but currently it is god awful simply because scourge exists.

Exactly how would you keep a high level of threat while lowering the dmg?Right now scourge and spellbreakers act as a dam for the boon avalanche hiding at the horizon , without them...you'd open a very ugly " can of worms" that has not been addressed for years.

If you lower scourge dmg..you have to increase their sustain and same idea of compensation goes for spellbreaker; this compensation will end up doing more harm than good in my opinion

I don't think you understant how wrong are those things you are saying. Clearly you're seeing scrourges and spellbreakers from a very subjective point of view. The majority of players have problems with how overpower those 2 classes are yet here you are saying that they are saviors? Exactly how? Cause of boon rip? Being able to infict a ton of powerful condies instantly in tones of people and being able to be litteraly Immortal with the right build is worth of the boon rip? No. Both Scourge and Spellbreaker need a serious nerf.

[Erzian.5218]

Boon spam was also reduced pre pof already when they changed most of the pulsing boon application and replaced the might on pet swap of druids. Necro was already a good counter to boons, but wasn't even necessary as boons weren't oppressive.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Pretty much every opinion you stated in your opening post could only be stated by either a troll, a war/necro main who loves all of a sudden being really good at the game, or someone who is completely insane.

[MyPuppy.8970]

In the meantime there are classes whose survivability depends on boons (because nothing else). But i guess we don't see them too much these days.

[hurrado.2346]

@Erzian.5218 said:I don't see why the two overpowered classes do need compensation. They need to be toned down because they are currently too strong. We are not talking about classes that are doing well, we are talking about classes that do too well.There is a reason why they make up 60%+ of most matches. There are hardly any games in legend/plat that do not have at least 6 of the 10 slots occupied by scourge/spellbreaker.

You want scourge damage nerfed to the point that they are essentially useless, when they are already a nearly free kill, with hardly any defense outside of barrier, very little stability, and extremely low mobility. It is one of the easiest classes to kill and any plat/legend player should know that.

The damage is a bit much with the bug, but when that is fixed it will be fine, if it is nerfed to the point of not being able to do decent damage without any form of compensation, then it will be essentially useless as a class.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@hurrado.2346 said:

@Erzian.5218 said:I don't see why the two overpowered classes do need compensation. They need to be toned down because they are currently too strong. We are not talking about classes that are doing well, we are talking about classes that do too well.There is a reason why they make up 60%+ of most matches. There are hardly any games in legend/plat that do not have at least 6 of the 10 slots occupied by scourge/spellbreaker.

You want scourge damage nerfed to the point that they are essentially useless, when they are already a nearly free kill, with hardly any defense outside of barrier, very little stability, and extremely low mobility. It is one of the easiest classes to kill and any plat/legend player should know that.

The damage is a bit much with the bug, but when that is fixed it will be fine, if it is nerfed to the point of not being able to do decent damage without any form of compensation, then it will be essentially useless as a class.

My hope is that they just fix the bug and make the center capture points a little bit larger on more maps. It's a bit ridiculous that a Scourge can prevent any opponents from even setting foot on the capture point as long as they have a support to babysit them.

[BurrTheKing.8571]

I would be fine with a sustain and support buff to Scourge of it can with a reduction in the amount of boon corruption it currently has. More obvious tells would also be good.

You have to be careful with Spellbreaker as it will quickly become useless if nerfed too hard. Start with just a 2 second CD increase on Full Counter. If it's still too strong then make the daze only affect the one that triggered. Do much more than that and you have a useless spec. I would even say so the Scourge changes first then see what changes before touching SB. Fewer condis means Revenge Counter might not be as powerful as it currently is.

Of course, that would require frequently patching the game, which they seem unwilling to do. Chances are we get both specs nerfed into uselessness and something else just as bad will reveal itself.

[mortrialus.3062]

While Scourge and Spellbreakers are making a huge splash by virtue of their insane pressure for Scourge and the insane balance of damage and sustain for Spellbreakers, Bunker Firebrand are really really god damn strong. Easily the best bunker in the game and damn near unkillable but it's less obvious because they aren't the ones doing all the killing.

Scourge is Turret Engineer from the old meta on steroids. The control they exercise on a point and how much damage they do is out of this world. There needs to be a more obvious wind up and tell for when they use their Shade skills because right now they can just dump on you instantly. If you could fight them on their turf but also had a fair chance to avoid their attacks it might be less of an issue. I really don't want to see scourge damage nerfed because I'm extremely happy with it in PvE and by virtue of them actually being quite frail.

Spellbreakers are a tough one. The near permanent resistance up time is the real issue with them. The only things that can really, really threaten them are builds that can boonstrip it off. So right now with the meta builds it's scourges and other spellbreakers. I'd like to see more time seeing people adjust their builds to account for Spellbreakers and bringing dedicated boon strip. I'm fine with the AoE component of Full Counter and even it's cooldown, but the AoE daze is a problem.

[Harry Foud.1935]

@ArthurDent.9538 said:Pretty much every opinion you stated in your opening post could only be stated by either a troll, a war/necro main who loves all of a sudden being really good at the game, or someone who is completely insane.

Exactly my thoughts. The things he is saying are so out of context that people are questioning his sanity. Scourge and Spellbreaker are the top classes right now, they are so overpowered that people are looking for party with them for pvp cause its impossible to win against them. Yet this guy believes that they are the saviors of GW2 the same time the majority of people have problems with them