A few things on thief that should be addressed immediately!

[Dantheman.3589]

@Exitus.3297 said:It's funny you think Thieves are the problem in this patch.

Your right with balance presented this accurately this fast thief won’t be a problem in the future

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

1. Just imagine a thief there wasting time to mark clones over and over to stack boons, and I think that hitting someone with mark as they are about to die is observant play and might indicate awareness and skill. I don't see many thieves doing this.
2. It is still fine.
3. Remove tooth stab from the one source on the only map from a random roll of 3 items, seems like a priority.
4. No, thief needs evades, and boon removal is a thing. (I don't see why a defense line with no burst should not have perks)
5. Use all initiative on marked foe to get 7 back and waste a stunbreak to gain 10, but mercy has a cooldown, soo it's not infinite. Basically a one refill every 30 seconds.
6. See number one
7. many weapon skills were untouched because of slow and high cost and not spammable and they don't want 5 and 6 initiative skills to have zero damage
8. the thing that is busted on DE is 100% stealth on dodgeroll, (i would change the trait to transform snipers cover into the original version except only 1 use of stealth (3s) on a 10sec cd in addition to the enhanced precsion. that means they would lose the ability to block missles if taking silent scope. (and get any leap combos)
9. you lose the whips, and only hit with the stun. you could already jump with the first strike, but if you jump when the follow on happens you lose the damage, if you jump and don't land before the stun hits you lose the damage. so i guess it is keeping the evade?
10. you can't really go on because thief is in an ok spot right now, and they don't want to remove it from play.

There are such bigger fish to fry, but you can make the build prevalent (the DE one) by showcasing it's ease to dominate the fields of battle.

[Fueki.4753]

@Exitus.3297 said:It's funny you think Thieves are the problem in this patch.It's funny people think other classes also being oppressive makes Thief less of a problem.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

1. Just imagine a thief there wasting time to mark clones over and over to stack boons, and I think that hitting someone with mark as they are about to die is observant play and might indicate awareness and skill. I don't see many thieves doing this.
2. It is still fine.
3. Remove tooth stab from the one source on the only map from a random roll of 3 items, seems like a priority.
4. No, thief needs evades, and boon removal is a thing. (I don't see why a defense line with no burst should not have perks)
5. Use all initiative on marked foe to get 7 back and waste a stunbreak to gain 10, but mercy has a cooldown, soo it's not infinite. Basically a one refill every 30 seconds.
6. See number one
7. many weapon skills were untouched because of slow and high cost and not spammable and they don't want 5 and 6 initiative skills to have zero damage
8. the thing that is busted on DE is 100% stealth on dodgeroll, (i would change the trait to transform snipers cover into the original version except only 1 use of stealth (3s) on a 10sec cd in addition to the enhanced precsion. that means they would lose the ability to block missles if taking silent scope. (and get any leap combos)
9. you lose the whips, and only hit with the stun. you could already jump with the first strike, but if you jump when the follow on happens you lose the damage, if you jump and don't land before the stun hits you lose the damage. so i guess it is keeping the evade?
10. you can't really go on because thief is in an ok spot right now, and they don't want to remove it from play.

There are such bigger fish to fry, but you can make the build prevalent (the DE one) by showcasing it's ease to dominate the fields of battle.

Now this is a truly bad post of suggestions. You basically don’t touch on these points at all and half the time falsify all of your info.If what u say is correct how is thief in an ok spot and nerfing these things would remove it from play? The whole point these are selected is so that they won’t be removed from play and yes I can come up with many more. No I don’t need to start uploading videos to prove the build is good as I’m not promoting any build at all- just get over it these things are correct and why should they still be in play? Becuz you think they shouldn’t, lol that’s borderline delusional Ma bud

[Qaju.2058]

Won't deny it, I've skimmed through many posts. Ain't an adept of the Player Vs Points mode where I dab at times rarely (p1-p2). I'm a WvW guy, solely solo roaming on DE (3k).

@OP: If you make the mistake of wasting a Mark on a ranger pet, you're in big trouble. Mark doesn't reset when pet hp goes to 0% and pet runs back in passive mode to its master. You ain't getting Renewing Gaze trait trigger. GJ now you won't get all the perks of Mark on Ranger (Iron Sight trait: -10%dmg taken,+10% dmg dealt). Enjoy eating that RF. You're forced to now waste Mercy to reset your Mark and won't have it available to stun break/counter a LB 4-2 burst. GJ brainiac.If you're DA Mug specced, and you face a condi staff mesmer which has a playstyle that relies on tempo control kiting you while clones spam Hadokens, why not counter abuse of this with Mug chain-reactions off them?

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

1. Just imagine a thief there wasting time to mark clones over and over to stack boons, and I think that hitting someone with mark as they are about to die is observant play and might indicate awareness and skill. I don't see many thieves doing this.
2. It is still fine.
3. Remove tooth stab from the one source on the only map from a random roll of 3 items, seems like a priority.
4. No, thief needs evades, and boon removal is a thing. (I don't see why a defense line with no burst should not have perks)
5. Use all initiative on marked foe to get 7 back and waste a stunbreak to gain 10, but mercy has a cooldown, soo it's not infinite. Basically a one refill every 30 seconds.
6. See number one
7. many weapon skills were untouched because of slow and high cost and not spammable and they don't want 5 and 6 initiative skills to have zero damage
8. the thing that is busted on DE is 100% stealth on dodgeroll, (i would change the trait to transform snipers cover into the original version except only 1 use of stealth (3s) on a 10sec cd in addition to the enhanced precsion. that means they would lose the ability to block missles if taking silent scope. (and get any leap combos)
9. you lose the whips, and only hit with the stun. you could already jump with the first strike, but if you jump when the follow on happens you lose the damage, if you jump and don't land before the stun hits you lose the damage. so i guess it is keeping the evade?
10. you can't really go on because thief is in an ok spot right now, and they don't want to remove it from play.

There are such bigger fish to fry, but you can make the build prevalent (the DE one) by showcasing it's ease to dominate the fields of battle.

Now this is a truly bad post of suggestions. You basically don’t touch on these points at all and half the time falsify all of your info.If what u say is correct how is thief in an ok spot and nerfing these things would remove it from play? The whole point these are selected is so that they won’t be removed from play and yes I can come up with many more. No I don’t need to start uploading videos to prove the build is good as I’m not promoting any build at all- just get over it these things are correct and

why should they still be in play? Becuz you think they shouldn’t, lol that’s borderline delusional Ma bud

People choose useful skills and traits, not garbage.

If all you have is garbage, you would be renegade.

(1) the only adjustments needed should be set to mark, but then you will remove your double mark from mercy.I would suggest that mercy can reset the internal cooldown to mark gaining all trait bonuses, and otherwise casting on dying clones recieves your suggested cooldowns. core traits don't benefit from an auto refresh, and it can not interfere with swindlers equilibrium. ok, so it is obvious that mark must be looked at.

(2) To CC with tactical strike you must hit it with flank, and how did you get stealth, at least as core s/x thief?

more than likely from a cnd, stolen skill, or blinding powder. (most likely cnd as you would likely offhand a dagger).

so, you are core and kill steal into a precasted cnd, this is easier to do than a no steal, melee cnd (imo), and rotate around (hopefully and hit with the tactical strike), you might as well try.

i suspect without some form of immobe, the enemy will do what every player with any experience does when a thief steals into stealth, wait .5-1 second and dodge.

hitting it from the front will only blind.

I really don't see how a combo play with a conditional chance at cc is in anyway needing a nerf.

to get the 7k, you would need to be zerk. (this is possible if all the damage is lower, but i still believe many thieves timid at 11k health play)

---

(3) I don't care if they remove toothstab, I wouldn't waste steal on beasts and you can not get it from pets. (toothstab is only on the roll for chieftain in all of pvp from my reading, and I have also tested the suspected (2) pets.

---

(4) 3 secs of vigor, 1 sec cooldown, but reliant on evading an attack not just pressing evade. so you don't get it perma, and you can also evade twice (possible) during the effective cooldown and only gain the boon once. I am telling you it is fine because I actually made some considerations to what the trait actually does and how it is applied in combat. (have someone attack you while you do daggerstorm and count how many times it gets applied.

---

(5) You can make the suggested nerfs to this, fine by me. If i play deadeye it never has this trait, nor this utlitity.

---

(6) again look at number one

---

(7) This one just says make all thief skills cost at least 6 initiative, and lower the damage no matter what.

---

(8) (the best suggestion of all) the thing that is busted on DE is 100% stealth on dodgeroll, (i would change the trait to transform snipers cover into the original version except only 1 use of stealth (3s) on a 10sec cd in addition to the enhanced precsion. that means they would lose the ability to block missles if taking silent scope. (and get any leap combos)

---

(9) i'm not wrong

---

(10) if you can go on, you really should. I don't mind replying with counter points.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

1. Just imagine a thief there wasting time to mark clones over and over to stack boons, and I think that hitting someone with mark as they are about to die is observant play and might indicate awareness and skill. I don't see many thieves doing this.
2. It is still fine.
3. Remove tooth stab from the one source on the only map from a random roll of 3 items, seems like a priority.
4. No, thief needs evades, and boon removal is a thing. (I don't see why a defense line with no burst should not have perks)
5. Use all initiative on marked foe to get 7 back and waste a stunbreak to gain 10, but mercy has a cooldown, soo it's not infinite. Basically a one refill every 30 seconds.
6. See number one
7. many weapon skills were untouched because of slow and high cost and not spammable and they don't want 5 and 6 initiative skills to have zero damage
8. the thing that is busted on DE is 100% stealth on dodgeroll, (i would change the trait to transform snipers cover into the original version except only 1 use of stealth (3s) on a 10sec cd in addition to the enhanced precsion. that means they would lose the ability to block missles if taking silent scope. (and get any leap combos)
9. you lose the whips, and only hit with the stun. you could already jump with the first strike, but if you jump when the follow on happens you lose the damage, if you jump and don't land before the stun hits you lose the damage. so i guess it is keeping the evade?
10. you can't really go on because thief is in an ok spot right now, and they don't want to remove it from play.

There are such bigger fish to fry, but you can make the build prevalent (the DE one) by showcasing it's ease to dominate the fields of battle.

Now this is a truly bad post of suggestions. You basically don’t touch on these points at all and half the time falsify all of your info.If what u say is correct how is thief in an ok spot and nerfing these things would remove it from play? The whole point these are selected is so that they won’t be removed from play and yes I can come up with many more. No I don’t need to start uploading videos to prove the build is good as I’m not promoting any build at all- just get over it these things are correct and

why should they still be in play? Becuz you think they shouldn’t, lol that’s borderline delusional Ma bud

People choose useful skills and traits, not garbage.

If all you have is garbage, you would be renegade.

(1) the only adjustments needed should be set to mark, but then you will remove your double mark from mercy.

I would suggest that mercy can reset the internal cooldown to mark gaining all trait bonuses

, and otherwise casting on dying clones recieves your suggested cooldowns. core traits don't benefit from an auto refresh, and it can not interfere with swindlers equilibrium. ok, so it is obvious that mark must be looked at.

(2) To CC with tactical strike you must hit it with flank, and how did you get stealth, at least as core s/x thief?

more than likely from a cnd, stolen skill, or blinding powder. (most likely cnd as you would likely offhand a dagger).

so, you are core and kill steal into a precasted cnd, this is easier to do than a no steal, melee cnd (imo), and rotate around (hopefully and hit with the tactical strike), you might as well try.

i suspect without some form of immobe, the enemy will do what every player with any experience does when a thief steals into stealth, wait .5-1 second and dodge.

hitting it from the front will only blind.

I really don't see how a combo play with a conditional chance at cc is in anyway needing a nerf.

to get the 7k, you would need to be zerk. (this is possible if all the damage is lower, but i still believe many thieves timid at 11k health play)

---

(3) I don't care if they remove toothstab, I wouldn't waste steal on beasts and you can not get it from pets. (toothstab is only on the roll for chieftain in all of pvp from my reading, and I have also tested the suspected (2) pets.

---

(4) 3 secs of vigor, 1 sec cooldown, but reliant on evading an attack not just pressing evade. so you don't get it perma, and you can also evade twice (possible) during the effective cooldown and only gain the boon once. I am telling you it is fine because I actually made some considerations to what the trait actually does and how it is applied in combat. (have someone attack you while you do daggerstorm and count how many times it gets applied.

---

(5) You can make the suggested nerfs to this, fine by me. If i play deadeye it never has this trait, nor this utlitity.

---

(6) again look at number one

---

(7) This one just says make all thief skills cost at least 6 initiative, and lower the damage no matter what.

---

(8) (

the best suggestion of all)

the thing that is busted on DE is 100% stealth on dodgeroll, (i would change the trait to transform snipers cover into the original version except only 1 use of stealth (3s) on a 10sec cd in addition to the enhanced precsion. that means they would lose the ability to block missles if taking silent scope. (and get any leap combos)

---

(9) i'm not wrong

---

(10) if you can go on, you really should. I don't mind replying with counter points.

Again barely any good points. Have u ever even played thief? Probably not on a high level otherwise u would know how to be behind them on steal which any good thief can do also due to mechanics of s/d or even s/p you will always be behind them. If u not getting the cc you are wasting the skill and probably playing incredibly poorly. You suggestion for pw was like gibberish it had nothing to with the fact that you can jump cancel. For vigor I’m more worried about bountiful theft the problem just seems to be passive 2 mins of vigor at times.Most of this stuff is just blah blah stuff about nerfs when this isn’t about nerfs it’s about balance

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

1. Just imagine a thief there wasting time to mark clones over and over to stack boons, and I think that hitting someone with mark as they are about to die is observant play and might indicate awareness and skill. I don't see many thieves doing this.
2. It is still fine.
3. Remove tooth stab from the one source on the only map from a random roll of 3 items, seems like a priority.
4. No, thief needs evades, and boon removal is a thing. (I don't see why a defense line with no burst should not have perks)
5. Use all initiative on marked foe to get 7 back and waste a stunbreak to gain 10, but mercy has a cooldown, soo it's not infinite. Basically a one refill every 30 seconds.
6. See number one
7. many weapon skills were untouched because of slow and high cost and not spammable and they don't want 5 and 6 initiative skills to have zero damage
8. the thing that is busted on DE is 100% stealth on dodgeroll, (i would change the trait to transform snipers cover into the original version except only 1 use of stealth (3s) on a 10sec cd in addition to the enhanced precsion. that means they would lose the ability to block missles if taking silent scope. (and get any leap combos)
9. you lose the whips, and only hit with the stun. you could already jump with the first strike, but if you jump when the follow on happens you lose the damage, if you jump and don't land before the stun hits you lose the damage. so i guess it is keeping the evade?
10. you can't really go on because thief is in an ok spot right now, and they don't want to remove it from play.

There are such bigger fish to fry, but you can make the build prevalent (the DE one) by showcasing it's ease to dominate the fields of battle.

Now this is a truly bad post of suggestions. You basically don’t touch on these points at all and half the time falsify all of your info.If what u say is correct how is thief in an ok spot and nerfing these things would remove it from play? The whole point these are selected is so that they won’t be removed from play and yes I can come up with many more. No I don’t need to start uploading videos to prove the build is good as I’m not promoting any build at all- just get over it these things are correct and

why should they still be in play? Becuz you think they shouldn’t, lol that’s borderline delusional Ma bud

People choose useful skills and traits, not garbage.

If all you have is garbage, you would be renegade.

(1) the only adjustments needed should be set to mark, but then you will remove your double mark from mercy.

I would suggest that mercy can reset the internal cooldown to mark gaining all trait bonuses

, and otherwise casting on dying clones recieves your suggested cooldowns. core traits don't benefit from an auto refresh, and it can not interfere with swindlers equilibrium. ok, so it is obvious that mark must be looked at.

(2) To CC with tactical strike you must hit it with flank, and how did you get stealth, at least as core s/x thief?

more than likely from a cnd, stolen skill, or blinding powder. (most likely cnd as you would likely offhand a dagger).

so, you are core and kill steal into a precasted cnd, this is easier to do than a no steal, melee cnd (imo), and rotate around (hopefully and hit with the tactical strike), you might as well try.

i suspect without some form of immobe, the enemy will do what every player with any experience does when a thief steals into stealth, wait .5-1 second and dodge.

hitting it from the front will only blind.

I really don't see how a combo play with a conditional chance at cc is in anyway needing a nerf.

to get the 7k, you would need to be zerk. (this is possible if all the damage is lower, but i still believe many thieves timid at 11k health play)

---

(3) I don't care if they remove toothstab, I wouldn't waste steal on beasts and you can not get it from pets. (toothstab is only on the roll for chieftain in all of pvp from my reading, and I have also tested the suspected (2) pets.

---

(4) 3 secs of vigor, 1 sec cooldown, but reliant on evading an attack not just pressing evade. so you don't get it perma, and you can also evade twice (possible) during the effective cooldown and only gain the boon once. I am telling you it is fine because I actually made some considerations to what the trait actually does and how it is applied in combat. (have someone attack you while you do daggerstorm and count how many times it gets applied.

---

(5) You can make the suggested nerfs to this, fine by me. If i play deadeye it never has this trait, nor this utlitity.

---

(6) again look at number one

---

(7) This one just says make all thief skills cost at least 6 initiative, and lower the damage no matter what.

---

(8) (

the best suggestion of all)

the thing that is busted on DE is 100% stealth on dodgeroll, (i would change the trait to transform snipers cover into the original version except only 1 use of stealth (3s) on a 10sec cd in addition to the enhanced precsion. that means they would lose the ability to block missles if taking silent scope. (and get any leap combos)

---

(9) i'm not wrong

---

(10) if you can go on, you really should. I don't mind replying with counter points.

Again barely any good points. Have u ever even played thief? Probably not on a high level otherwise u would know how to be behind them on steal which any good thief can do also due to mechanics of s/d or even s/p you will always be behind them. If u not getting the cc you are wasting the skill and probably playing incredibly poorly. You suggestion for pw was like gibberish it had nothing to with the fact that you can jump cancel. For vigor I’m more worried about bountiful theft the problem just seems to be passive 2 mins of vigor at times.Most of this stuff is just blah blah stuff about nerfs when this isn’t about nerfs it’s about balance

My suggestion on pw was not a suggestion.

I explained the mechanics.

If you jump during the flurry you lose the damage.

I asked if you kept the evade.

9. you lose the whips, and only hit with the stun. you could already jump with the first strike, but if you jump when the follow on happens you lose the damage, if you jump and don't land before the stun hits you lose the damage. so i guess it is keeping the evade?

this is what i said...

Most of your problems can be solved with an internal cooldown set to deadeye's mark with a reset to that also gained by mercy.

I am a necro main.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

1. Just imagine a thief there wasting time to mark clones over and over to stack boons, and I think that hitting someone with mark as they are about to die is observant play and might indicate awareness and skill. I don't see many thieves doing this.
2. It is still fine.
3. Remove tooth stab from the one source on the only map from a random roll of 3 items, seems like a priority.
4. No, thief needs evades, and boon removal is a thing. (I don't see why a defense line with no burst should not have perks)
5. Use all initiative on marked foe to get 7 back and waste a stunbreak to gain 10, but mercy has a cooldown, soo it's not infinite. Basically a one refill every 30 seconds.
6. See number one
7. many weapon skills were untouched because of slow and high cost and not spammable and they don't want 5 and 6 initiative skills to have zero damage
8. the thing that is busted on DE is 100% stealth on dodgeroll, (i would change the trait to transform snipers cover into the original version except only 1 use of stealth (3s) on a 10sec cd in addition to the enhanced precsion. that means they would lose the ability to block missles if taking silent scope. (and get any leap combos)
9. you lose the whips, and only hit with the stun. you could already jump with the first strike, but if you jump when the follow on happens you lose the damage, if you jump and don't land before the stun hits you lose the damage. so i guess it is keeping the evade?
10. you can't really go on because thief is in an ok spot right now, and they don't want to remove it from play.

There are such bigger fish to fry, but you can make the build prevalent (the DE one) by showcasing it's ease to dominate the fields of battle.

Now this is a truly bad post of suggestions. You basically don’t touch on these points at all and half the time falsify all of your info.If what u say is correct how is thief in an ok spot and nerfing these things would remove it from play? The whole point these are selected is so that they won’t be removed from play and yes I can come up with many more. No I don’t need to start uploading videos to prove the build is good as I’m not promoting any build at all- just get over it these things are correct and

why should they still be in play? Becuz you think they shouldn’t, lol that’s borderline delusional Ma bud

People choose useful skills and traits, not garbage.

If all you have is garbage, you would be renegade.

(1) the only adjustments needed should be set to mark, but then you will remove your double mark from mercy.

I would suggest that mercy can reset the internal cooldown to mark gaining all trait bonuses

, and otherwise casting on dying clones recieves your suggested cooldowns. core traits don't benefit from an auto refresh, and it can not interfere with swindlers equilibrium. ok, so it is obvious that mark must be looked at.

(2) To CC with tactical strike you must hit it with flank, and how did you get stealth, at least as core s/x thief?

more than likely from a cnd, stolen skill, or blinding powder. (most likely cnd as you would likely offhand a dagger).

so, you are core and kill steal into a precasted cnd, this is easier to do than a no steal, melee cnd (imo), and rotate around (hopefully and hit with the tactical strike), you might as well try.

i suspect without some form of immobe, the enemy will do what every player with any experience does when a thief steals into stealth, wait .5-1 second and dodge.

hitting it from the front will only blind.

I really don't see how a combo play with a conditional chance at cc is in anyway needing a nerf.

to get the 7k, you would need to be zerk. (this is possible if all the damage is lower, but i still believe many thieves timid at 11k health play)

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(3) I don't care if they remove toothstab, I wouldn't waste steal on beasts and you can not get it from pets. (toothstab is only on the roll for chieftain in all of pvp from my reading, and I have also tested the suspected (2) pets.

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(4) 3 secs of vigor, 1 sec cooldown, but reliant on evading an attack not just pressing evade. so you don't get it perma, and you can also evade twice (possible) during the effective cooldown and only gain the boon once. I am telling you it is fine because I actually made some considerations to what the trait actually does and how it is applied in combat. (have someone attack you while you do daggerstorm and count how many times it gets applied.

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(5) You can make the suggested nerfs to this, fine by me. If i play deadeye it never has this trait, nor this utlitity.

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(6) again look at number one

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(7) This one just says make all thief skills cost at least 6 initiative, and lower the damage no matter what.

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(8) (

the best suggestion of all)

the thing that is busted on DE is 100% stealth on dodgeroll, (i would change the trait to transform snipers cover into the original version except only 1 use of stealth (3s) on a 10sec cd in addition to the enhanced precsion. that means they would lose the ability to block missles if taking silent scope. (and get any leap combos)

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(9) i'm not wrong

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(10) if you can go on, you really should. I don't mind replying with counter points.

Again barely any good points. Have u ever even played thief? Probably not on a high level otherwise u would know how to be behind them on steal which any good thief can do also due to mechanics of s/d or even s/p you will always be behind them. If u not getting the cc you are wasting the skill and probably playing incredibly poorly. You suggestion for pw was like gibberish it had nothing to with the fact that you can jump cancel. For vigor I’m more worried about bountiful theft the problem just seems to be passive 2 mins of vigor at times.Most of this stuff is just blah blah stuff about nerfs when this isn’t about nerfs it’s about balance

My suggestion on pw was not a suggestion.

I explained the mechanics.

If you jump during the flurry you lose the damage.

I asked if you kept the evade.

9. you lose the whips, and only hit with the stun. you could already jump with the first strike, but if you jump when the follow on happens you lose the damage, if you jump and don't land before the stun hits you lose the damage. so i guess it is keeping the evade?

this is what i said...

Most of your problems can be solved with an internal cooldown set to deadeye's mark with a reset to that also gained by mercy.

I am a necro main.

I thought it was a rhetorical question tbh.U don’t jump on the flurry bb. U jump before the animation start this allows you to keep running or dashing about while hitting the stun which at a few times is abit abusable though u shouldn’t abuse it 24/7 like the staff build. What I think your referring to as jumping during flurry is actually where if u jump a little bit later than the bug that cancels and instead of canceling it just does a very strange animation that is hard for the eyes to follow but keeps evade and rest of flurry but like I said it makes the animation look weird especially if u have quickness

[Safandula.8723]

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

Thers only 1 skill on thief that needs nerf for a long Time already, and u didnt list it

[Gwaihir.1745]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

Thers only 1 skill on thief that needs nerf for a long Time already, and u didnt list it

Only 1? I can name a few more.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

Thers only 1 skill on thief that needs nerf for a long Time already, and u didnt list it

What skill needs a nerf? This list is mostly abusable stuff so what is abusable that I missed?

[Safandula.8723]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

Thers only 1 skill on thief that needs nerf for a long Time already, and u didnt list it

What skill needs a nerf? This list is mostly abusable stuff so what is abusable that I missed?

Abusable means thief spams this certain skill to make dmg, so he shoudlnt have any init. Why cant u kill it than?

[Dantheman.3589]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:All these resources are abusable!(edited)

1.) mug or mark require a rework or icd, as it can be used endlessly on clones downed targets or pets for insane boons or healing2.) tactical strike needs a huge nerf to bring it inline, as it is a cc that can do up to 7k on DE3.) tooth stab can do 10k per plz fixOther stuff of lower but still very high priority4.) feline grace needs a real icd, in addition to icds for bountiful theft and possibly be quick or be killed, becuz why is there an option that may be permanent boons/stat boost5.) M7 probably gives too much initiative and when combined with mercy I can give permanent full initiative6.) same problem with mark and mug- thrill of the crime needs icd reason already stated7.) many weapon skills damage not touched like cloak and dagger and this will be taken advantage of. where as the change to sw/d 3 is logical because at least flanking strike was nerfed, but maybe do something to prevent larcenous strike spam also Becuz that will also be taken advantage/spammed which isn’t skillful.8.) besides Deadeye builds that are busted with mark spam crit strikes dps and for some builds even the utility is starting to be very busted9.) pistol whip shouldn’t have a animation cancel on jump. Using this u can hit stun and continue moving at same time. We already got rid of staff 3 jump bug while the same thing exist on pistol whip, except it doesn’t dodge because the dodge is part of later animation.

I think I can go on and on actually but these things especially the first 3 should be hot fixed immediately. Also hopefully the comment section will be full of things that are just busted on thief atm as I’m sure there’s plenty

Thers only 1 skill on thief that needs nerf for a long Time already, and u didnt list it

What skill needs a nerf? This list is mostly abusable stuff so what is abusable that I missed?

Abusable means thief spams this certain skill to make dmg, so he shoudlnt have any init. Why cant u kill it than?

Look at the point about m7. Basically DE is decent rn becuz u can spam rifle 2 for damage. Theoretically u can do this once mark a target get initiative back spam 3-4 times and this will trigger m7 refreshing all the initiative spent, then u can use 4-5 times and use mercy to refresh all you initiative and start the cycle again only difference is that when u mark again improv with refresh mercy so you can do it endlessly.So in some cases no in the reasonable time without quickness it takes to use these skills you can just get initiative back theoretically permanently...

[Curennos.9307]

M7 looks amazing until you realize that your opponent can mitigate your attacks and you have to hit max malice for it to work. You need to land 3 attacks that crit for M7 to work, 4 if you don't take the +1 malice on mark trait. Minimum 9 ini (skrim shot 3 ini * 3 -> 9 ini), m7 returns 7.

Some parts of it can be mitigated if you use TRB/Double Tap because they're multi-hit and IIRC a crit on any of the strikes counts to increase malice gain, but both those skills are kind fo bad right now (though sometimes if your opponent mistimes their dodges, the cast time + projectile time means one of the 2/3 bullets might hit them for puny dmg but still give malice).

So, yeah, I guess in the best case scenario where your opponent is literally a target dummy that doesn't LoS, attack you, or evade, M7 could be strong, but that's not actually the case.

However, I still think the might on M7 is a little bit too much - and if they decide to lower some skill costs across weapons in pvp then they could take a look at lowering M7's ini restore, maybe. But for now, it's fine.

Mercy...eh. With the importance of stunbreaks, I think it's fine. Resetting Malice isn't exactly a good thing either. I take more issue with how much Trickery loads into steal - also, it's important to consider that Mark has a cast time, so resetting it isn't as strong as getting a double steal/swipe. Maybe they could remove the 3 ini you get from using the skill no matter what? Eh.

As usual, nerfs are fine in some cases if they're accompanied with buffs. But I'd like for DE to remain decent, kthx.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Do thieves need nerfs, have the toothstabbers taken over?