Squishy and Weak.

[Mikexsa.6482]

Hey guys I made my final class this week (ele).I've been grind the rotations, I've been used different gears, I evaded alot and still something were missing...

Most of the time I play PVE (open world) then fractals/dungeons.with the Tempest I used dagger/warhorn cause it fits my style, I fell in love with the specbut he was really really squishy. btw the damage didn't felt really good, even with full berserker.

Then I tried the Weaver, he was really fun too, but again, with full berserker, sword/dagger and asolid rotations I did, he felt a little less squishy because of the barriers and the damage felt really bad too.

There are so much builds for the ele, especially for pve, I tried a different stuff but they didn't felt good enoughto maintain a good damage, and a good sustain.

1. Please I would like to know you'r opinion on Weaver vs Tempest in pve open-world and why?
2. What is more viable or flexible about Condi vs Power attribiutes on Weaver for pve?
3. I saw that there are a few stats attribution (like: Grieving, Marshal's and ofc Viper) that combine Power and Condi, are they Viable?
4. Throw at me builds if you, can I appreciate it.

Thanks In advance!

[Aigleborgne.2981]

If you started playing ele for 1 week, your impression is correct.Ele need a lot of knowledge to be successful with. You need to know all your skills and traits, and also know your opponents.

Even then, it is still a challenge because you have more skills than others and a few mistakes can be fatal.

I have spent hundred hours on ele and I'm still learning a lot, just to give an idea.

I have made several ele, my last one is still leveling with leveling gear. He is an earth tank and able to solo most champions I encounter without difficulty.Another one was full offense and he could kill a lot faster but one or two mistakes and he goes down.

Regarding damage, I feel that scepter burst is unmatched, even though I prefer dagger.Dagger is very good in condi build, but it is still decent in power if you manage to survive.

Weaver is great and damage is excellent, sustain is good with its evades. However, it is difficult to play and I find myself doing random cast in panic situations, which most likely ends to death.

As for your questions, I let more experienced people answer.You should check Wooden Potatoes tempest build. And Lord Hizen weaver build.

[Mikexsa.6482]

Thank you,Would you suggest me to go condi weaver for open world or power?And if i decide focusing on condi it will be viable for fractals/dungeons?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

power is way easier than condi. You run marauder and have 18k+ hp. You crit every time you hit - and your crit damage really hurts.

Condi - it takes ages to build up a good stack of burning/bleeding. sure 27k burning per tick is great. Until you realize that the time needed to build up that stack could be used to burst the mob down.

In HoT condi is very viable because a lot of mobs are tough, negating power damage. In PoF not so much.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:power is way easier than condi. You run marauder and have 18k+ hp. You crit every time you hit - and your crit damage really hurts.

Condi - it takes ages to build up a good stack of burning/bleeding. sure 27k burning per tick is great. Until you realize that the time needed to build up that stack could be used to burst the mob down.

In HoT condi is very viable because a lot of mobs are tough, negating power damage. In PoF not so much.

Power is easier to kill regular mobs, although you might still have sustain issues when fighting a lot of strong mobs.Power is not forgiving and good luck soloing group content with it.

Condi takes time, but it allows you to sustain a lot more.

You will learn more with power, but if dying constantly is not an option, play condi.

[Mikexsa.6482]

Is there a middle ground that is viable enough as power and condi together?

[steki.1478]

@Mikexsa.6482 said:Is there a middle ground that is viable enough as power and condi together?

You can try grieving s/d weaver with balt runes, but if you're having problems with surviving it wont help you at all.

The best way is for you to record your gameplay and post the video. While ele is squishy, it also has a lot of ways to completely negate damage (mostly through blinds and evades) as well as very easy time rallying from downed state. Essentially your lower health ends up being your best defensive tools since overlapping aoe fields + downed lava font = 100% rally chance.

FA tempest with sc/wh is the best option if you're struggling with surviving because it has the best burst, the most blinds, high range and enough aoes/delayed damage that lets you rally easy.

[Euclid.2517]

Welcome to ele family, when guardian is favored by most people and better in almost every aspect. :/

For open world

Steki is right with tempest. FA tempest is very nice to use in open world. And dps tempest works fairly well nowdays in end game content.

If you insist weaver in open world, condi is better than power for foes you cannot one shot.

1. Less boon reliance
2. More robust than power build, due to the earth spec. You can drop the Superior Element for vitality trait without much dps loss, which is not the case for power build.
3. Deals more damage in general.

You can use condition weaver to solo most HoT hp champions. I find this hard with power build.

For fractal,

Condi weaver has the highest condition burst in game and very enjoyable to play. From my experience, it is 55% burning, 25% power and 20% bleeding in most scenarios. So it also works in fractal due to how burning works.BUT if you are in a high dps group, POWER is better.

"btw the damage didn't felt really good, even with full berserker"

Your feeling is justified for two reasons:

1. Ele is very boon reliant. In open world, you can consider take the fire trait that gives you might every time you strike to slightly address this.
2. Ele is not meant to be a brain dead dps. Rotation is important. And you need to quickly swap attunement to make sure you get to use skills other than auto attack. And this brings us back to point 1. (Alacrity)

"but he was really really squishy"

It is the squishes in game. (LOWEST hp+ light armor)

Guardian also has lowest hp but compensated with aegis; (this is why fb/DH is the meta dps, in addition to their high dps)

Necro is just tanky.

Mesmer has evade/invul/blocks/aegis.

Ele's compensation is probably.. the downed skill 2? ?

[AliamRationem.5172]

I use a PvP-style fire weaver build for open world and it works great! Strong damage paired with amazing sustain. Maybe it will work for you?

Here's the build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwmYXMJmJOKXevbA-zRRYkh9GN4yInCIzEwhZpKpN-e

Here are some recent sample videos in open world play to give you an idea of how it plays. Apologies if you've seen these already in other help threads, but I've only been playing weaver for a few months and I've been focused entirely on PvP/WvW since the 2/25 patch!

Edit: Also, take a look at the post just above mine from @Euclid.2517 It seems pretty accurate.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Mikexsa.6482 said:Thank you,Would you suggest me to go condi weaver for open world or power?And if i decide focusing on condi it will be viable for fractals/dungeons?

Viable? Yes. Optimal? No. The problem with condi for optimized groups is they burst everything down so quickly you don't have time for condi ramp-up. I would say it takes a good 3 seconds for my build to start hitting even decent damage (10k+ burn ticks solo single-target) and another few seconds to achieve maximum potential (20k+). With an experienced speed group using meta comps and builds, that is simply too slow.

On the other hand, for my guild group doing T4 fractal dailies with whoever wanted to go last night? Well, we had one guy who had 7 AR we carried through as a corpse, I was wearing my WvW gear, and we sure didn't ask anyone to play anything in particular to make the run go more smoothly. We finished all our T4 dailies in 45 minutes no problem.

A speed run group would not be impressed, but we had fun, got loot, and it was easy. That's viable in my book!

[Mikexsa.6482]

I've made my decision (almost). I'm having so much fun with a Condi Weaver.I've tried a different attribuets, and I found out that Carrion is almost perfectthe sustain is amazing and the condition damage too. Unfortunately NO ExpertiseIS IT VIABLE?

I ran:Fire 1-1-2 | Earth 2-1-3 | Weaver 1-1-3Rune of Agony | Rune of SmolderingCarrion Attribute | Rune of Elementalist

I also tried Grieving but again I felt that the sustain was pretty bad.I can survive with it but it's still tough.

I didn't mentioned Viper because it's like berserker but with more damage.

What's your Opinion?

[Euclid.2517]

@Mikexsa.6482 said:I've made my decision (almost). I'm having so much fun with a Condi Weaver.I've tried a different attribuets, and I found out that Carrion is almost perfectthe sustain is amazing and the condition damage too. Unfortunately NO ExpertiseIS IT VIABLE?

I ran:Fire 1-1-2 | Earth 2-1-3 | Weaver 1-1-3Rune of Agony | Rune of SmolderingCarrion Attribute | Rune of Elementalist

I also tried Grieving but again I felt that the sustain was pretty bad.I can survive with it but it's still tough.

I didn't mentioned Viper because it's like berserker but with more damage.

What's your Opinion?

You can try trailblazer stats with a minor loss of dps but great boost to sustain. Its dps is close to full viper.

If you are running signet of fire and signet of restoration, I suggest go earth 2-1-2. You can use signet of restoration but still retain its passive.

Try weaver 3-1-1 or 3-1-3 when fighting elite mobs. Superior Element is only minor dps improve. Tho its weakness infliction can be helpful.

Grieving stats not as good as viper as condi ele need the extra condition duration. It's mostly used with condi Firebrand.

The meta uses rune of elementalist. But if you focus more on burst with condition, you can try rune of Balthazar and free up some viper stats for other.

Condition duration, IMO, is the most worthwhile stats to dps for foes you cannot one-shot.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Mikexsa.6482 said:I've made my decision (almost). I'm having so much fun with a Condi Weaver.I've tried a different attribuets, and I found out that Carrion is almost perfectthe sustain is amazing and the condition damage too. Unfortunately NO ExpertiseIS IT VIABLE?

I ran:Fire 1-1-2 | Earth 2-1-3 | Weaver 1-1-3Rune of Agony | Rune of SmolderingCarrion Attribute | Rune of Elementalist

I also tried Grieving but again I felt that the sustain was pretty bad.I can survive with it but it's still tough.

I didn't mentioned Viper because it's like berserker but with more damage.

What's your Opinion?

I think if you are loving it and feel it's perfect, then it is. No build is optimal for all things. If optimal is what you must have then I'm afraid your only option is to have multiple builds for specific purposes. If viable is good enough, then I'd say you've probably found it. I used different stats, but I have used carrion before and it worked great. Fire/earth is a great choice as well. There is no reason you can't use this build for anything you want (except maybe raiding and speed run fractals!).

As for expertise, you don't really need any if you take one of the runes that give a lot of burn duration like balthazar, baelfire, or flame legion. I would imagine with the lack of ferocity and precision on this build, it is going to be strongly condi-forward. So I might recommend going for the balthazar rune, which will give you even more health as well as condi damage and +50% burn duration. But that's really going more in the pure condi direction.

It's just hard to build effectively for a true hybrid build on elementalist because of the low base health and armor. Grieving/Viper are great options for condi damage builds. You should be able to deal significant power damage in the case of grieving with scholar rune and %damage boosters. However, many players find that a little squishy for solo play, having only 11k health, no additional armor, and still relying partially on condi ramp-up! Also, as you've seen, weaver has the kit to be very effective with a pure condi setup, so you don't really have to play it squishy. You can still deal more than adequate damage while being very tanky.

Edit: Once again, check out the post from Euclid.5172 preceding mine. I agree 100%! Also, I may be biased, but give fire/arcane a try. Evasive arcana is pretty awesome with sword weaver condi builds since you not only get the additional combo heal on riptide with earth dodge, but you gain area burn and bleed on dodges in fire and earth as well as an additional heal and cleanse on dodge. The area blind on dodge in air is the least useful and it's still pretty handy! You can also gain a nice passive stun break and arcane shield plus great boon generation including vigor, which is extra nice to get more out of evasive arcana!

[Mikexsa.6482]

Thank you Euclid.2517 AliamRationem.5172 !!I found out that there is Dire Attributionwhich is: Vitality, Toughness and Condition Damage. (ofc)and with the Fire and Earth traits i can get benefits fromtoughness to gain even more condition damage.

But I guess it'll means I go Pure Condition.Now, for Open World, do you think It might be a problem?And what about power and precision -I want to be sure. If I go full dire, I will have 0 Power and Precision -I think I know the answer but again I want to be sure,Does the lack of power and precision will "hurt" me?

AliamRationem.5172 you said "As for expertise, you don't really need any if you take one of the runes that give a lot of burn duration like balthazar, baelfire, or flame legion. I would imagine with the lack of ferocity and precision on this build, it is going to be strongly condi-forward. So I might recommend going for the balthazar rune, which will give you even more health as well as condi damage and +50% burn duration. But that's really going more in the pure condi direction."

btw I love both earth and arcane, for my weaver I use arcane alot, and its fun & great.

Edit: Dire is maybe too tanky, Carrion works almost the same to me like dire. but it has Power.wat do you think?

[Aigleborgne.2981]

@Mikexsa.6482 said:Edit: Dire is maybe too tanky, Carrion works almost the same to me like dire. but it has Power.wat do you think?

Almost, you loose toughness. You will have nice health pool but you will feel hard hitter mobs.This is why I prefer Apothecary or Settler, I have low health, but good damage reduction and good healing. Although I am more vulnerable to one shot.

I think it might best to mix several attributes together, something I will do later on.

Edit: I don't thrust power without precision and ferocity, it feels lackluster

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"Mikexsa.6482" said:Thank you Euclid.2517 AliamRationem.5172 !!I found out that there is Dire Attributionwhich is: Vitality, Toughness and Condition Damage. (ofc)and with the Fire and Earth traits i can get benefits fromtoughness to gain even more condition damage.

But I guess it'll means I go Pure Condition.Now, for Open World, do you think It might be a problem?And what about power and precision -I want to be sure. If I go full dire, I will have 0 Power and Precision -I think I know the answer but again I want to be sure,Does the lack of power and precision will "hurt" me?

AliamRationem.5172 you said "As for expertise, you don't really need any if you take one of the runes that give a lot of burn duration like balthazar, baelfire, or flame legion. I would imagine with the lack of ferocity and precision on this build, it is going to be strongly condi-forward. So I might recommend going for the balthazar rune, which will give you even more health as well as condi damage and +50% burn duration. But that's really going more in the pure condi direction."

btw I love both earth and arcane, for my weaver I use arcane alot, and its fun & great.

Edit: Dire is maybe too tanky, Carrion works almost the same to me like dire. but it has Power.wat do you think?

Honestly, anything with condi primary stat should work for a fire/x/weaver build just fine. It's entirely up to you how you want to play it. You don't need to worry about expertise at all. You can just take burning precision in fire for +20% burn duration, weaver's prowess grants another 20%. Then take balthazar rune for +50% and you're already close to maxxing out your burn duration without any expertise at all! If you want to get that last 10%, maybe throw in some trailblazer or viper, but it shouldn't make a huge difference either way.

The major difference between carrion and dire will be against enemies that die very quickly. Since dire is pure condi, you will deal very little damage within the first 3 seconds. That's where the power on carrion is most useful. As a percentage of your sustained damage over time, power will contribute relatively little using just carrion and building for condi. However, within that first few seconds it will make a difference. But it will never come close to competing with true power burst and in fights that last more than a few seconds, the vast majority of your damage will still come from condi.

Edit: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2jZYT2lJhjyj57G-zxIY8ohPMyLguEwZW4ZaD-e

Something like this should do so much burn damage and be so tanky, you should never have any problems with anything in open world. You can easily stack 25 might and hit 200% burn duration with 3k condi damage, which would make something like your fire signet apply about a 30k burn all by itself! It's just going to destroy everything in sight in open world and with 26k health and 3k armor, you can facetank an army!

[Jski.6180]

Its a lot of work to just be viable in most game types. Ele is missing some effects for sure and the balancing ideal of being a gen. class realty dose not fit in the game any more. So just be ready for most classes to out do you most of the time and try not the get too hold up on numbers.

[Mikexsa.6482]

Dire is so good, the damage is also fantastic.I can feel the lack of power when I hit with auto attack (which i dont often use cause i chose to go condi)BUT when the skills recharge power could help me finish the fight faster. Not sure its better then Vitality/Thoughness.

My Conclusion:It's a really fun build. I know it will never be meta for Fractals/Dungens/Raids/PvP/WvW.It takes a few seconds to stack a nice amount of conditions (which btw i managed to output 45 stacks of bleed I think SO ITS TOTALY WORTH IT)but I guess instead of evading all the time I can take alot of hits without "breaking the rotation" so its another compromise I guess...I switch all the time Earth and Arcane because they are both fun, ofc for condi build Earth will do better for damage.

Weaver specSword and Dagger (off hand dagger have mobility [Ride the Lightning]and nice condi output [Earthquake and Churning Earth which cripples and gives me 12 stacks of bleeding].

Focus gives me alot of tankiness which i dont really need so I chose dagger off hand.

I use Dire AttributesSigil of Corruption and Sigil of SmolderingRune of Balthazar

Fire 1-1-2(3) - can cause blindness so its nice too but I'm already very tanky.Earth 2-1-2Weaver 3-1-3/1(1) - Elements of Rage gives me 10% Damage which I often change to it becuase again,I'm already very tanky with 25k HP and alot of Toughness from Dire. But I like the Barrier from dodging too.

I slaughtered every mob that faced me. It's like I'm not vulnerable to anything.I lack burst a little bit, but the damage is basically superior.I KNOW IT WILL NEVER BE META but I can do so champs, great aoe.It's a Superior build for PvE Open World, until i make my way to full Viper.

Thanks to you all!