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Stap! Every class has an OP build.

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:What OP thief build?

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has nothing to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the major grievance with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be a free reset option for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay in a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something actively bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used only out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

Posted
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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:What OP thief build?

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Lol wow so ur idea of thief low sustain high burs in a game like gw2 means more times than not thief would just be a free kill, u know unless aegis, blocks,invulnerability and all the slew of ways someone could easily shut down a thiefs burst. In a game like gw2 with all the defensive skills given to classes a burst class as u describe having no disengage abilities would never attempt bursts as I'd be to risky and not worth it.Does this apply to all classes? Thief burst high so no disengagement, all high hp classes with blocks get all their bursts that as of now match or surpass thiefs hammered nerfed to ground, rangers lb dps hammered cuz they get to hit from safe range,all war ranged dps hammered cuz there melee bruisers and so on...? Ur so biased no point discussing further, u or that kill guy lol

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:What OP thief build?

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Lol wow so ur idea of thief low sustain high burs in a game like gw2 means more times than not thief would just be a free kill, u know unless aegis, blocks,invulnerability and all the slew of ways someone could easily shut down a thiefs burst. In a game like gw2 with all the defensive skills given to classes a burst class as u describe having no disengage abilities would never attempt bursts as I'd be to risky and not worth it. Ur so biased no point discussing further, u or that kill guy lol

I am using common sense..the same applied to other MMOs online and completely left out in GW2 : fail -restealth -fail -restealth -fail -stack stealth and try again...I win oh I have outplayed the enemy I am super skilled.....Get real! and realize this is completely crap as a mechanic and rightfully hated across the board.

A stealth sniper with no counterplay...such crap can only be found in GW2 , perma stealth stacking builds...only in GW2; no penalties, no 5 min CD, go take a look at how stealth is handled in other games .

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:What OP thief build?

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Lol wow so ur idea of thief low sustain high burs in a game like gw2 means more times than not thief would just be a free kill, u know unless aegis, blocks,invulnerability and all the slew of ways someone could easily shut down a thiefs burst. In a game like gw2 with all the defensive skills given to classes a burst class as u describe having no disengage abilities would never attempt bursts as I'd be to risky and not worth it.Does this apply to all classes? Thief burst high so no disengagement, all high hp classes with blocks get all their bursts that as of now match or surpass thiefs hammered nerfed to ground, rangers lb dps hammered cuz they get to hit from safe range,all war ranged dps hammered cuz there melee bruisers and so on...? Ur so biased no point discussing further, u or that kill guy lol

aegis, blocks = basilisc poison = bypass block and stop their channel block

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:What OP thief build?

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Lol wow so ur idea of thief low sustain high burs in a game like gw2 means more times than not thief would just be a free kill, u know unless aegis, blocks,invulnerability and all the slew of ways someone could easily shut down a thiefs burst. In a game like gw2 with all the defensive skills given to classes a burst class as u describe having no disengage abilities would never attempt bursts as I'd be to risky and not worth it. Ur so biased no point discussing further, u or that kill guy lol

I am using common sense..the same applied to other MMOs online and completely left out in GW2 : fail -restealth -fail -restealth -fail -stack stealth and try again...I win oh I have outplayed the enemy I am super skilled.....
Get real!
and realize this is completely kitten as a mechanic and rightfully hated across the board.

Except, thats not how it goes. Here is how it goes. "Fail - attempt to restealth - enemy punishes you for it - get downed - die". Now, what does a thief do, if they want to get out of a fight? Gee, how about they switch to shortbow, use shortbow 5, and run away.

A stealth sniper with no counterplay...such kitten can only be found in GW2 , perma stealth stacking builds...only in GW2; no penalties, no 5 min CD, go take a look at how stealth is handled in other games .

Deadeye has a lot of counterplay. Their hardest hitting skill is so telegraphed, you have to be AFK to be hit by it. Well, that or the strange bug where its indicator appears after youre hit happened. That one seems to be rare though? Iunno. Perma-stealth is in most MMOs. And they dont have to drop smokefields and potentially reveal their presence in those. They just press 1 button and boom, indefinitely stealthed. And that indeed is bad design ,and hated. Thats why GW2 doesnt have that.

Most games nowadays handle it the way GW2 does. Out of combat stealth comes with restrictions, in-combat stealth does not. Because out of combat stealth inherently lacks counterplay, in-combat stealth inherently has a lot of it. Granted ,GW2 lacks the restrictions for out of combat stealth. But thats why people are arguing for a max duration limit.

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

Thief is Thief not an AssasinAt launch ppl used the D/D one shot spec (assasin)At 2013-2014 when the the sword 3 , was split from one huge chain attack (evade spec)Or when HoT was luanced at semptember of 2015 , and at january ppl used the Headshot+Pi spec (disturb spec)Or 7 months after the Hot launcehd ppl found out the Stuff/Stuff build (evade spec)3 months later than than the D/D conditional spec in WvWVw showned up (condition)

All of these specs is differnt that the original description of the class , and the community found and usedd them

(dont be rude to new players...)

Thief not a assassin? That statement itself is a good time to end the convo with one response.Thief has so much of gw1 assassin intertwined into it that a assassin spec being given to thief in new cantha expac would basically be redundant. Look at every skill regarding how thief evades and disengages and thier utilities and playstyle, doesnt get more assassin. Poison,venoms,smoke bombs and screens,caltrops,throwing daggers. Hell even 90% of their traits depict shinobi as well as most trait names lending to the assassin theme. U either know very little about thief and shouldn't be arguing anything regarding the class or are just arguing for sake of arguement and either way going any further is pointless on my part. Unowen I suggest u do the same.

ninja..shinobi as you said , a dirty fighter .Thief allowing himslf to have access to evade specs, dontion + brawler(stuff-stuff) ...it doesnt autoimatically makes a Assasin

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

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Posted

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:What OP thief build?

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because that isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Lol wow so ur idea of thief low sustain high burs in a game like gw2 means more times than not thief would just be a free kill, u know unless aegis, blocks,invulnerability and all the slew of ways someone could easily shut down a thiefs burst. In a game like gw2 with all the defensive skills given to classes a burst class as u describe having no disengage abilities would never attempt bursts as I'd be to risky and not worth it. Ur so biased no point discussing further, u or that kill guy lol

I am using common sense..the same applied to other MMOs online and completely left out in GW2 : fail -restealth -fail -restealth -fail -stack stealth and try again...I win oh I have outplayed the enemy I am super skilled.....
Get real!
and realize this is completely kitten as a mechanic and rightfully hated across the board.

Except, thats not how it goes. Here is how it goes. "Fail - attempt to restealth - enemy punishes you for it - get downed - die". Now, what does a thief do, if they want to get out of a fight? Gee, how about they switch to shortbow, use shortbow 5, and run away.

A stealth sniper with no counterplay...such kitten can only be found in GW2 , perma stealth stacking builds...only in GW2; no penalties, no 5 min CD, go take a look at how stealth is handled in other games .

Deadeye has a
lot
of counterplay. Their hardest hitting skill is so telegraphed, you have to be AFK to be hit by it. Well, that or the strange bug where its indicator appears
after
youre hit happened. That one seems to be rare though? Iunno. Perma-stealth is in
most
MMOs. And they dont have to drop smokefields and potentially reveal their presence in those. They just press 1 button and boom, indefinitely stealthed. And
that
indeed is bad design ,and hated. Thats why GW2 doesnt have that.

Most games nowadays handle it the way GW2 does. Out of combat stealth comes with restrictions, in-combat stealth does not. Because out of combat stealth inherently lacks counterplay, in-combat stealth inherently has a lot of it. Granted ,GW2 lacks the restrictions for out of combat stealth. But thats why people are arguing for a max duration limit.

1) Using blackpowder + heartseeker , offer 2 blinds while you relacatein a new potion the Powder protects you .2)The majority of the rotations comes come 3 round burst ,with the quickness trait . That way you build up Malice tomax out DJ

Most mmo nowdays has an infirio model of GW2 stealt that break even from shouts (WoW)

Lets have a peace for 2 hours ...we have 10 days to catch upon

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:What OP thief build?

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him

Peace 2 hours

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:What OP thief build?

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with infiltrator/shadow return? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

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UNOwen.7132

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Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Lol wow so ur idea of thief low sustain high burs in a game like gw2 means more times than not thief would just be a free kill, u know unless aegis, blocks,invulnerability and all the slew of ways someone could easily shut down a thiefs burst. In a game like gw2 with all the defensive skills given to classes a burst class as u describe having no disengage abilities would never attempt bursts as I'd be to risky and not worth it. Ur so biased no point discussing further, u or that kill guy lol

I am using common sense..the same applied to other MMOs online and completely left out in GW2 : fail -restealth -fail -restealth -fail -stack stealth and try again...I win oh I have outplayed the enemy I am super skilled.....
Get real!
and realize this is completely kitten as a mechanic and rightfully hated across the board.

Except, thats not how it goes. Here is how it goes. "Fail - attempt to restealth - enemy punishes you for it - get downed - die". Now, what does a thief do, if they want to get out of a fight? Gee, how about they switch to shortbow, use shortbow 5, and run away.

A stealth sniper with no counterplay...such kitten can only be found in GW2 , perma stealth stacking builds...only in GW2; no penalties, no 5 min CD, go take a look at how stealth is handled in other games .

Deadeye has a
lot
of counterplay. Their hardest hitting skill is so telegraphed, you have to be AFK to be hit by it. Well, that or the strange bug where its indicator appears
after
youre hit happened. That one seems to be rare though? Iunno. Perma-stealth is in
most
MMOs. And they dont have to drop smokefields and potentially reveal their presence in those. They just press 1 button and boom, indefinitely stealthed. And
that
indeed is bad design ,and hated. Thats why GW2 doesnt have that.

Most games nowadays handle it the way GW2 does. Out of combat stealth comes with restrictions, in-combat stealth does not. Because out of combat stealth inherently lacks counterplay, in-combat stealth inherently has a lot of it. Granted ,GW2 lacks the restrictions for out of combat stealth. But thats why people are arguing for a max duration limit.

1) Using blackpowder + heartseeker , offer 2 blinds while you relacatein a new potion the Powder protects you .

It only offers one blind. Over the course of more than a full second. Youre still just wide open. And unprotected.

2)The majority of the rotations comes come 3 round burst ,with the quickness trait . That way you build up Malice tomax out DJ

Repeating the same wrong thing doesnt make it less wrong. You dont use the quickness trait. And you dont use 3 round burst. It stacks malice worse and does less damage than Skirmishers shot. You spam Skirmishers shot max out malice with Maleficent Seven.

Most mmo nowdays has an infirio model of GW2 stealt that break even from shouts (WoW)

Nope. Thats how MMOs used to do it, but it was bad, so they dropped it. Nowadays? Well, BDO has its form of stealth which is in-combat, and also makes you completely immune to damage during it. Archeages is similar to GW2, Albions appears to be similar (but Im not sure, Ive not played it much), and so on.

Lets have a peace for 2 hours ...we have 10 days to catch upon

Or, alternatively, you finally stop talking about things you havent got the faintest clue about, and leave me alone. Sounds like a deal?

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed. Hide in Shadows? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do before they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run never go for stealth and always just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him

Peace 2 hours

Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate. Imagine blinding powder had no cast time, no cd and used a very very small amount of endurance each cast instead lol this wouldnt need another stealth skill :)

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Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

Posted
Posted

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I would recommend that more of us watch top streamers play in their Plat 3 / Legendary streams so we wouldn’t be too biased when calling for nerfs based on our own low leveled limited experiences.

When you have watched enough, you will realise that every class can perform at the highest levels.

People say nerf Ranger pets!But i watched a Necro fight on equal grounds with Boyce’s ranger. And the Necro arguably won by a whisker, forcing Boyce to retreat. Boyce! One of EU’s strongest! Forced to retreat by a Necro!

Okay then people say nerf Necro!I watched Naru, one of NA’s strongest, on his Reaper double team a holosmith in a 2 vs 1. The Holo tanked both Naru and his teammate, kited Naru’s Lich burst, and practically 1 vs 2 Naru and his teammate for Long durations. Immortal Holo!

Then people say nerf Immortal Holo!I watched Shadowfall on his ranger, out-noding an immortal Holo, forcing decaps frequently and even succeed in bursting and killing the Holo after a long fight.

Then people say nerf rev!I watched Ajax on his warrior stream, 1 vs 2 a ranger and revenant, and almost killed the rev. Forced multiple decaps against both condi/power revs. But I don’t think anyone ever calls to nerf warrior.

Then people say nerf condi mirage!I watched a power rev kill a top 10 ranked Mirage on stream even though the Mirage later got revenge on the rev too.

What I’m trying to say is that every class used at the highest levels has viable builds and roles.

And from what I’ve watched, there are no extremely over performing class that is an outlier.

Watch more of those high level games and you’ll learn that even those classes that you think are OP, can be countered and beaten in some way.

Have you ever heard of a significant sample size? I've played zerk staff ele and wiped a team at mid. Doesn't mean staff ele is good. Also great to know one of the best warriors can get decaps and almost a kill in a random 1v2. Warriors, you're all saved.

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him

Peace 2 hours

Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate.

You are in a semi transparent state , aand after 1,5 sec you go in fully stealth .If you get hit or attack you remain in the semi-visible state till they or you stop attacking

Regadles of what time of stealth you do , you get destealth if i hit you from aoes or hunt you in meele rangeGimme the same fuction in here too , and you can make stealth permanant

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him

Peace 2 hours

Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate.

You are in a semi transparent state , aand after 1,5 sec you go in fully stealth .If you get hit or attack you remain in the semi-visible state till they or you stop attacking

Regadles of what time of stealth you do , you get destealth if i hit you from aoes or hunt you in meele rangeGimme the same fuction in here too , and you can make stealth permanant

I have never noticed this semi transparent state u speak of while cloaking. I use it in combat and am instantly invisible, if being hit or just after yes but that sure beats a 3 sec out right reveal

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the average combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him

Peace 2 hours

Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate.

You are in a semi transparent state , aand after 1,5 sec you go in fully stealth .If you get hit or attack you remain in the semi-visible state till they or you stop attacking

Regadles of what time of stealth you do , you get destealth if i hit you from aoes or hunt you in meele rangeGimme the same fuction in here too , and you can make stealth permanant

I have never noticed this semi transparent state u speak of while cloaking. I use it in combat and am instantly invisible, if being hit or just after yes but that sure beats a 3 sec out right reveal

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

Valun used stealth + dodge to avoid the P/P thief on the video

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Psycoprophet.8107

Psycoprophet.8107

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

This true on most builds except dp which can blind with black powder then HS to stealth and reposition and chose to disengage or re engage depending on the situation and of course opponent skill level as a blind can be cleared quickly thru cleave as well the thief can also take damage from said cleave. I've gotten more than a few comments in chat when downing a stealth'd thief on my warrior calling me a hacker as if thieves arnt aware invisibility in no way means invulnerability lol.Most thief builds dont use in combat stealth but dp does, just unfortunate it hits like $hit right now.

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

How many melee specs have pull outside guardian GS and engi ?

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UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

How many melee specs have pull outside guardian GS and engi ?

Well Reaper. But hence why I said "immobile". How many melee specs have neither mobility, nor a pull? I cant think of any.

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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Posted

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

This true on most builds except dp which can blind with black powder then HS to stealth and reposition and chose to disengage or re engage depending on the situation and of course opponent skill level as a blind can be cleared quickly thru cleave as well the thief can also take damage from said cleave. I've gotten more than a few comments in chat when downing a stealth'd thief on my warrior calling me a hacker as if thieves arnt aware invisibility in no way means invulnerability lol.Most thief builds dont use in combat stealth but dp does, just unfortunate it hits like $hit right now.

'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun

The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.

Burst spec = low sustainBrawler spec = mid sustainTank spec = high sustain

Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.

Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...
not super duellist role
, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.

Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?

You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general

Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers
excel
at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be
burst
specs.

You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that,
the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth
..it's simply absurd

Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask
either
for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have
neither
.

So we must copy the stealth of other games .Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?

A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.

No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game

Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.

Burst=low sustainLow sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini

Actually, that has
nothing
to do with sustain. At all.

Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the
major grievance
with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be
a free reset option
for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.

Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay
in
a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something
actively
bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used
only
out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.

Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void

Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.

1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?

Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.

2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games

Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because
that
isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.

1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with
infiltrator/shadow return
? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing

You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed.
Hide in Shadows
? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do
before
they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run
never
go for stealth and
always
just switch to shortbow 5.

2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed

And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.

You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point

"Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the
average
combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.

You're stepping in a shadow field..it's not a single blind and your cleave will miss if it starts inside the field and....you managed to down a thief with a lucky aoe where the thief allowed himself to be killed, anecdotal evidence doesn't amount to anything these days
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