New Tactic Suggestion

[misterman.1530]

Either a new Tactic or a new feature after taking and/or defending a tower/keep:

• Tactic: Anti-stealth reveal. A minor tactic that can be used in place of Minor Supply Drop and Chilling Fog. The tactic would last for 5 min and constantly reveal any stealthed enemies in a keep or tower.
• Feature: after taking or defending a tower/keep, it blankets the area with a Reveal that lasts 5 min.

Seriously. Something has to give with the constant stealth in keeps/towers. Especially in Red BL, where there are so many hiding spots (think Air keep, for instance) that it's next to impossible to find a thief.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

[Strider.7849]

@misterman.1530 said:Either a new Tactic or a new feature after taking and/or defending a tower/keep:

• Tactic: Anti-stealth reveal. A minor tactic that can be used in place of Minor Supply Drop and Chilling Fog. The tactic would last for 5 min and constantly reveal any stealthed enemies in a keep or tower.
• Feature: after taking or defending a tower/keep, it blankets the area with a Reveal that lasts 5 min.

Seriously. Something has to give with the constant stealth in keeps/towers. Especially in Red BL, where there are so many hiding spots (think Air keep, for instance) that it's next to impossible to find a thief.

The problem is they already reveal enemies when captured. If you're still fighting off remaining survivors or the zerg/other enemy zergs inside the keep (i.e. imagine SMC) - that 5 minutes will disappear without anyone even attempting to find the thief/Mesmer. I feel the better solution is as you first stated, having a tactic that can be pulled with a low cooldown/cost and it's available immediately upon capturing the place - forcing reveal and giving away the location of the player on your minimap OR another option is giving sniff on warclaw also make enemies revealed.

The better solution in my opinion is removing portal from thief. It's bad enough on Mesmer but thief's highest mobility and being able to enter stealth consistently (almost to the point of permanent stealth) is what makes this really dumb. It was just a really bad decision they made giving thief portal. Without portal it would be like before, you have some idiot dance around a keep, sometimes for hours but he won't be able to ruin alone what many people worked hard together to capture/achieve.

[misterman.1530]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

[misterman.1530]

@Strider.7849 said:

@misterman.1530 said:Either a new Tactic or a new feature after taking and/or defending a tower/keep:

• Tactic: Anti-stealth reveal. A minor tactic that can be used in place of Minor Supply Drop and Chilling Fog. The tactic would last for 5 min and constantly reveal any stealthed enemies in a keep or tower.
• Feature: after taking or defending a tower/keep, it blankets the area with a Reveal that lasts 5 min.

Seriously. Something has to give with the constant stealth in keeps/towers. Especially in Red BL, where there are so many hiding spots (think Air keep, for instance) that it's next to impossible to find a thief.

The problem is they already reveal enemies when captured. If you're still fighting off remaining survivors or the zerg/other enemy zergs inside the keep (i.e. imagine SMC) - that 5 minutes will disappear without anyone even attempting to find the thief/Mesmer. I feel the better solution is as you first stated, having a tactic that can be pulled with a low cooldown/cost and it's available immediately upon capturing the place - forcing reveal and giving away the location of the player on your minimap OR another option is giving sniff on warclaw also make enemies revealed.

The better solution in my opinion is removing portal from thief. It's bad enough on Mesmer but thief's highest mobility and being able to enter stealth consistently (almost to the point of permanent stealth) is what makes this really dumb. It was just a really bad decision they made giving thief portal. Without portal it would be like before, you have some idiot dance around a keep, sometimes for hours but he won't be able to ruin alone what many people worked hard together to capture/achieve.

Removing the portal would be awesome. Why a thief got it is beyond me.

[Teratus.2859]

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

I've had to deal with this a number of times.. it kittens me off as well.

I've spent upwards of several minutes chasing thief stealth rings around a keep or SM castle trying to kill them.It's very annoying, specially against Deadeyes since they can remove reveal and keep hiding >.<

Imo Warclaws Sniff should be able to detect them.. maybe not reveal them but show them as some kind of smokey figure for a while that leaves a trail when they move.. like your tracking their scent.Thieves can still outrun warclaws but at least it'll make it harder for them to hide in enemy structures.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

I've had to deal with this a number of times.. it kittens me off as well.

I've spent upwards of several minutes chasing thief stealth rings around a keep or SM castle trying to kill them.It's very annoying, specially against Deadeyes since they can remove reveal and keep hiding >.<

Imo Warclaws Sniff should be able to detect them.. maybe not reveal them but show them as some kind of smokey figure for a while that leaves a trail when they move.. like your tracking their scent.Thieves can still outrun warclaws but at least it'll make it harder for them to hide in enemy structures.

I'd rather they didn't make Sniff any stronger tbh unless they completely rework it

[misterman.1530]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

I've had to deal with this a number of times.. it kittens me off as well.

I've spent upwards of several minutes chasing thief stealth rings around a keep or SM castle trying to kill them.It's very annoying, specially against Deadeyes since they can remove reveal and keep hiding >.<

Imo Warclaws Sniff should be able to detect them.. maybe not reveal them but show them as some kind of smokey figure for a while that leaves a trail when they move.. like your tracking their scent.Thieves can still outrun warclaws but at least it'll make it harder for them to hide in enemy structures.

I'd rather they didn't make Sniff any stronger tbh unless they completely rework it

Why not? How is it strong now? How could they rework it?

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

I've had to deal with this a number of times.. it kittens me off as well.

I've spent upwards of several minutes chasing thief stealth rings around a keep or SM castle trying to kill them.It's very annoying, specially against Deadeyes since they can remove reveal and keep hiding >.<

Imo Warclaws Sniff should be able to detect them.. maybe not reveal them but show them as some kind of smokey figure for a while that leaves a trail when they move.. like your tracking their scent.Thieves can still outrun warclaws but at least it'll make it harder for them to hide in enemy structures.

I'd rather they didn't make Sniff any stronger tbh unless they completely rework it

Why not? How is it strong now? How could they rework it?

5000 radius being able to know exactly where the group is stacking on the other side of the wall without showing yourself on top of the wall, they could have it give out something like 5 targets only

[Teratus.2859]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

I've had to deal with this a number of times.. it kittens me off as well.

I've spent upwards of several minutes chasing thief stealth rings around a keep or SM castle trying to kill them.It's very annoying, specially against Deadeyes since they can remove reveal and keep hiding >.<

Imo Warclaws Sniff should be able to detect them.. maybe not reveal them but show them as some kind of smokey figure for a while that leaves a trail when they move.. like your tracking their scent.Thieves can still outrun warclaws but at least it'll make it harder for them to hide in enemy structures.

I'd rather they didn't make Sniff any stronger tbh unless they completely rework it

Why not? How is it strong now? How could they rework it?

5000 radius being able to know exactly where the group is stacking on the other side of the wall without showing yourself on top of the wall, they could have it give out something like 5 targets only

5 targets would make it pretty useless in most other situtaions, would pretty much become only a skill for tracking stealth players if that was the case.

I really don't see how Sniff is considered OP, knowing where a group is stacked won't change anything when two groups collide.. either bigger numbers will win or more organized group will.Stealthed groups won't even show up on the map so stealth group ambush isn't effected at all either.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

I've had to deal with this a number of times.. it kittens me off as well.

I've spent upwards of several minutes chasing thief stealth rings around a keep or SM castle trying to kill them.It's very annoying, specially against Deadeyes since they can remove reveal and keep hiding >.<

Imo Warclaws Sniff should be able to detect them.. maybe not reveal them but show them as some kind of smokey figure for a while that leaves a trail when they move.. like your tracking their scent.Thieves can still outrun warclaws but at least it'll make it harder for them to hide in enemy structures.

I'd rather they didn't make Sniff any stronger tbh unless they completely rework it

Why not? How is it strong now? How could they rework it?

5000 radius being able to know exactly where the group is stacking on the other side of the wall without showing yourself on top of the wall, they could have it give out something like 5 targets only

Stealthed groups won't even show up on the map so stealth group ambush isn't effected at all either.

You can sniff them before leaving gate, know where they are and then dismount, stealth up and push.

Or if the other group sniffs, they will probably run far away so you can't and no one pushes

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Strider.7849 said:The problem is they already reveal enemies when captured. If you're still fighting off remaining survivors or the zerg/other enemy zergs inside the keep (i.e. imagine SMC) - that 5 minutes will disappear without anyone even attempting to find the thief/Mesmer.

Then that's a Tag problem. Any half competent tag I run with has a set of people dedicated to theif/mesmer clear on every keep cap.

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

Now that is true, and the solution is not a new tactic, but to apply that Reveled at the end of a successful defend event as well. We're all already over the guild upgrades gold sinks.

[Strider.7849]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@Strider.7849 said:The problem is they already reveal enemies when captured. If you're still fighting off remaining survivors or the zerg/other enemy zergs inside the keep (i.e. imagine SMC) - that 5 minutes will disappear without anyone even attempting to find the thief/Mesmer.

Then that's a Tag problem. Any half competent tag I run with has a set of people dedicated to theif/mesmer clear on every keep cap.

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

Now that is true, and the solution is not a new tactic, but to apply that Reveled at the end of a successful defend event as well. We're all already over the guild upgrades gold sinks.

I'm in tier 1, zergs probably more competent than your lower tier server, and I've never seen or heard of a dedicated team for hunting thieves and mesmers during zerg on zerg battles for a keep/SMC.

[gloflop.3510]

It would be nice to get some new stuff and new tactics could be one of them but honestly, the list of issues in wvw are much longer and I would like anet to focus on more important issues for the moment.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

@Strider.7849 said:

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@Strider.7849 said:The problem is they already reveal enemies when captured. If you're still fighting off remaining survivors or the zerg/other enemy zergs inside the keep (i.e. imagine SMC) - that 5 minutes will disappear without anyone even attempting to find the thief/Mesmer.

Then that's a Tag problem. Any half competent tag I run with has a set of people dedicated to theif/mesmer clear on every keep cap.

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

Now that is true, and the solution is not a new tactic, but to apply that Reveled at the end of a successful defend event as well. We're all already over the guild upgrades gold sinks.

I'm in tier 1, zergs probably more competent than your lower tier server, and I've never seen or heard of a dedicated team for hunting thieves and mesmers during zerg on zerg battles for a keep/SMC.

Again, sounds like a tag problem. Maybe that's why you all keep complaining about people hiding in your keeps?

[Strider.7849]

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@Strider.7849 said:

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:

@Strider.7849 said:The problem is they already reveal enemies when captured. If you're still fighting off remaining survivors or the zerg/other enemy zergs inside the keep (i.e. imagine SMC) - that 5 minutes will disappear without anyone even attempting to find the thief/Mesmer.

Then that's a Tag problem. Any half competent tag I run with has a set of people dedicated to theif/mesmer clear on every keep cap.

@misterman.1530 said:

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Keeps already reveal enemy players inside when captured?

Right. It does. But not when you defend it successfully. So, a group breaks down the wall, you kill them all but the freaking thief and then he hides in permastealth until everyone gets bored and leaves. Then he ports in his friends. It's bad enough in a tower, but it's worse in something like Air keep. The place is huge and it is next to impossible to find a thief.

Now that is true, and the solution is not a new tactic, but to apply that Reveled at the end of a successful defend event as well. We're all already over the guild upgrades gold sinks.

I'm in tier 1, zergs probably more competent than your lower tier server, and I've never seen or heard of a dedicated team for hunting thieves and mesmers during zerg on zerg battles for a keep/SMC.

Again, sounds like a tag problem. Maybe that's why you all keep complaining about people hiding in your keeps?

I don't know bud, I think you're trying to pawn off some 3k AP Strat you made up in your mind as a legit tactic that is being used successfully, or even at all. Can anyone else verify these claims or have heard of this being done?

[SweetPotato.7456]

this is not problem with tactic, again, this is some other problem like perma stealth thief ..... if people keep putting up stupid tactic to troll your tower/ keep that would be worse.

[misterman.1530]

@SweetPotato.7456 said:this is not problem with tactic, again, this is some other problem like perma stealth thief ..... if people keep putting up stupid tactic to troll your tower/ keep that would be worse.

Sorry. How would that tactic be trolling? Or how would a debuff that would trigger 5 min after a successful capture or defense of an objective be trolling?