Mirage Phantasm Skill Rework

[iPikachu.9436]

Wouldnt it be nice if they did Mirage Phantasms come hit one time and dissappear after attack, like a damage skill. with instant or quick cast time, this would give us reason to stick with clones which complements with Mirage's new mechanics while not fully ignoring phantasms. with a little trait rework it would be a nice change imo

[Alpha.1308]

like, have them work like Guardian weapons do now after their change?possiblymaybe even give them charges like Guardian weapons, tooconsidering both classes have been plagued with poor creature-summoned-skills, yet only one of them is an entire class mechanic that can't be avoided by simply not taking some utility skills...... and..... only one of them got the buff to let theirs not deal with being CC'd or destroyed......

would be nice

[Durzlla.6295]

I think if phantasms were reworked to function like spirit weapons it would be a fantastic change!

[Refia Montes.3205]

If you want to do this, Phantasm attacks should be buffed or Phantasms turn into clones after the attack. Since you can achieve the same thing by just summoning a Phantasm and shatter it. Either way, from testing from the beta, Phantasms are still way stronger than clones even with the influence of Infinite Horizon.

[Durzlla.6295]

Oh my god, making it so your phantasms showed up, did their thing and then turned into a clone would be absolutely fantastic!! Obviously buffing phantasm damage slightly to compensate

[Durzlla.6295]

I mean I was thinking of the phantasm change as a core change not as an elite spec thing, I am a huge fan of shatter (and previously clone death) so anything that could let me both use phantasms AND shatters makes me happy. Cause currently phantasms are pretty much either kinda boring or just shatter fodder anyway.

[Arkk.3509]

I strongly believe that there needs to be something like this change baseline. Because of how phantasms stick around, mesmer dps constantly deals with long ramp up and target switching problems. If phantasms were one-and-done, it would allow damage to be better distributed throughout the mesmer kit, and thereby alleviate a lot of the inherent issues. I'm actually working on a fairly long post right now, and this is one of my main three suggestions for change.

[OriOri.8724]

Honestly, and bear with me here, what we need is for chronophantasma to either be flat out removed, or made completely baseline (not a core mesmer trait, but fully baseline). That way Anet could finally balance phantasms correctly. because right now, they have to balance them as if they can come back when shattered, because in some builds they can. But this means that any build that relies on phantasms that isn't taking that trait is now crippled and is punished significantly harder by shattering the phantasms. If this trait was made baseline, it would already make shattering phantasms much less painful. If it was just removed, then phantasms could safely be buffed without worrying about that being too powerful with the trait. IR is fine as it is, because its just clone generation, but chronophantasma needs to either go completely baseline or removed entirely. Otherwise phantasms will never be able to be balanced with our current shatter mechanic.

[Infusion.7149]

Give Mirage's Phantasms mirage cloak / distortion or barrier?

[Zarathustra.1458]

I think if Phantasms were made to function like Guardian Spirit Weapons the entire issue would be dealt with. We would of course need a number of replacement traits, but many of the traits that apply abilities to our phantasms could instead apply abilities to ourselves, except of course chronophantasma. It would also push things in a direction whereby we can have an equality in the power of phantasms rather than having completely garbage ones like iwarlock.

[bart.3687]

What if phantasm skills summoned a clone and caused it and all other clones to execute the phantasm attack? This of course would require some balancing and trait changes, but I think it would make them more interesting.

Honestly, phantasms shouldnt stay in their current state as they are contradictory to shatters (which are after all our class mechanic, and we shouldnt be punished for using our class mechanic lol).

[Allarius.5670]

Honestly, the suggestions here are genius! The mesmer has always had this weird relationship between fully utilizing illusion summoning skills, actual illusions, or shatters. Finding a way to actually encourage the full cycle regardless of gamemode, rather than just one aspect of it, is what should have always been the case from the beginning ... for the base profession (and by extension all elite specs).

(1) Give phantasm skills charges; balance cast cooldown, recharge cooldown, and charge count as needed.
(2) After a phantasm has attacked it automatically shatters itself, generating a clone on its original target (no other effect). Allows full functionality with Persistence of Memory.(3) Adjust directly impacted traits as necessary: Phantasmal Force, Chronophantasma, etc.(4) Revisit summoning and phantasm attack skills as necessary for balance, PvE dps output, etc.

Phantasmal Force should definitely be shifted to gain its effect based on shatter:

Activating a shatter (or per illusion shattered?) grants a stack of Phantasmal Force (buff).Phantasmal Force: The next phantasm you summon deals increased damage.

Chronophantasma could still be made to work thematically:

Shattering 3 illusions grants Chronophantasma (buff).Chronophantasma: The next phantasm you summon does not consume a charge.

[Panda.1967]

A few changes I'd like to see...

Phantasms are no longer counted towards your 3 illusion limit. Instead Phantasms have very short lifespans and apply a random shatter effect if they persist for their full lifespan (meaning phantasms can be killed and a killed phantasm does NOT shatter) NOTE: Phantasm life spans should be short enough that they WILL shatter long before their summoning ability comes off CD.

Clones receive an increased health pool. Phantasms receive a reduced health pool. (Phantasms are to be short duration but high damage illusions, while clones are persistent but relatively weak illusions.

Clones will mimic any attack you perform and copy any boons (and visual effects) you acquire. Their damage however, regardless of the attack performed will always be your auto attack. Clones will weapon swap with you. (Clones are meant to be exact replicas of you designed to confuse your opponent and make it hard for them to find the real you.)

This will make clones the actual class mechanic, while keeping phantasm play alive, while removing the struggle between using phantasms or clones entirely, as you can cast a phantasm for some quick burst damage.

[Durzlla.6295]

Pretty much any of these suggestions for phantasms makes me super excited and hopeful that it'll change for CORE Mesmer, I would really hate any of these to be locked away behind an elite spec.

[Panda.1967]

@Durzlla.6295 said:Pretty much any of these suggestions for phantasms makes me super excited and hopeful that it'll change for CORE Mesmer, I would really hate any of these to be locked away behind an elite spec.

I hear you there... it's been rather annoying that they keep "fixing" the mesmer's core issues via elite specs... Chronomancer "fixed" how punishing it is to use shatters by making it easier to rebuild your illusions after shattering... and now Mirage is "fixing" our inability to retarget illusions by adding 2 Mirage exclusive skills for retargeting illusions.

[Angel de Lyssa.4716]

A possible suggestion for ambush attack phantasmal is:

When you use any ambush skills, recharges attacks of yours phantasm (your phantasm, not the skill weapon phantasm) and, then is auto-destroyed.

It could also be that a Mirage Cloak on the phantasm destroyed, but it would op.

[OriOri.8724]

As much as I would like to see that, it would be broken. Phantasm attacks are, overall, fairly strong considering we can "stack" them. If giving them mirage cloak refreshed their attack CD, we could theoretically get 6 phantasm attacks off within 2 seconds (allowing for the ridiculously high cast time + CD of ambush skills), or even 9 within 3-4 seconds. That's really, really strong, bordering on broken.

Phantasms DO need to interact with mirage cloak in some way, but not that way.

[Blades Of Fatalis.1279]

i personally like the way phantasms are now, and think they should just get their own ambush attacks like clones :P phantasm are very useful in their current form, id really hate to see them lose their sustained damage as its an extremely valuable asset. yes, its counterproductive to shattering but you can always make more phantasms. plus they make just as good shatter bait as clones so theres no reason to turn them into them other than mirage ambush attacks, which could just as easily be given to phantasms. does it fit mirage's theme as well as clones? no, it doesnt, but it would solve the problem for mirage. as is i cannot see a one and done attack for phantasms being nearly as powerful as they are in their current state, phantasmal berserkers can hit for 10-12k with damage traits and no phantasmal force stacks, only getting stronger as they live with that trait, so a one and done attack would have to deal an absurd amount of damage for me to consider it to be viable over 3 berserkers or duelist keeping sustained pressure on a target.

[Abelisk.4527]

Phantasms shouldn't be illusions. Clones should only count as illusions.

With this change, Mesmers will be able to shatter AND upkeep Phantasms, since Phantasms won't be able to get shattered. Therefore I see this as a very welcome change, and it makes weapons that spawn clones not be detrimental towards dps anymore. It'll surely increase overall DPS as you can spawn multiple Phantasms at a time.

I think that skills like Shield 4 would need to be reworked though, since the shield spawns two Phantasmal Avenger which would also have charges. I don't think you'd be able to control both at the same time :tongue:

[Blades Of Fatalis.1279]

that change im more than fine with. i just dont want phantasms to become a one and done type of thing.

[Gomes.5643]

@Blades Of Fatalis.1279 said:that change im more than fine with. i just dont want phantasms to become a one and done type of thing.

Then allow me to post a small variation ;)

I also think phantasm should be completly seperated from the clones and the shatter mechanic. But I would prefer that they work like the ghost companions of the new rev Elite Spec. Meaning that you can place them like AoEs on the map and they will attack whatever is in range. Your target with priority of course. That would also have the advantage that you can place defensiv phantasm - like that anti - projectile bubble phantasm where they are useful and you do not have to hope that the god of randomness puts it in the right location.

And to make it a little bit more unique and connected to the mesmer mechanics, I would make the restriction that you have to sacrifice a clone to summon them. Therefore their cooldown could go down by a little.

Also - from a purely lore perspective - I would really like if they change clones in a way that only you and the enemy they are casted on can actually see them (you know .... like if they are real illusions ....). I know that that would completly wreck mesmer balance in PvP .... but from a lore and style point I would really like that ......

[Syronus.7605]

I would like to see phantasms play a more active role in combat. A lot of these ideas are nice (haven't read all of them here so someone might have said this already) but the way I would like to see phantasms done would be to have their own slot next to the three clone slots. This would mean you would only be allowed one phantasm at a time however each phantasm would in addition now have its own unique flip over shatter skill when summoned.

The phantasms might need a slight buff to health and damage since there would only be one at a given time but it would mean they are not sharing clone slots (Useful for a mirage who wants to ambush with IH). When switching weapons the shatter skill of the previous phantasm would remain until you want to get rid of them to summon the new weapon's one, this would also affect utility phantasms too so it may look a little odd having the same skill in a few different slots but I think it would make the mesmer feel less passive and more active depending on how this is balanced.

[Warlyx.6732]

@Abelisk.4527 said:Phantasms shouldn't be illusions. Clones should only count as illusions.

With this change, Mesmers will be able to shatter AND upkeep Phantasms, since Phantasms won't be able to get shattered. Therefore I see this as a very welcome change, and it makes weapons that spawn clones not be detrimental towards dps anymore. It'll surely increase overall DPS as you can spawn multiple Phantasms at a time.

I think that skills like Shield 4 would need to be reworked though, since the shield spawns two Phantasmal Avenger which would also have charges. I don't think you'd be able to control both at the same time :tongue:

this , but all the ideas would be better that what we have now :/