New Player - Mesmer Viability

[Jerikko.2618]

I am new to GW2, first character is only level 30. I really enjoy mesmer play style. I haven't played a class like it in any other MMO and it keeps me engaged more than other classes, since there is a bit more micro-management. I also enjoy the mobility and flashy play style. I figured since this is my first play through character I will mostly focus on PvE/story/leveling/achievements. I have seen a lot of posts stating the mesmer is no longer viable with recent nerfs and is a struggle, so my question is will I have a hard time in PvE content as a mesmer? Open world/Fractals/Raids? Or are the struggles of the class mostly limited to PvP? Thanks in advance for any responses.

[Veprovina.4876]

In Open world and story, you can literally play any class and any (within reason) build and be viable. Spec mostly for damage and you'll be fine, don't go like full minstrel's and try to kill stuff cause your damage will suck and you won't be able to kill anything but also won't die so... Damage...

In Raids, mesmers are ok only because of how much boons everyone else is giving you. It's a 10 man content so of course, you'll be all booned out which will cover any shortcommings. The skill rotation is one of the most complicated ones though. But as most raiders will tell you, each boss requires separate tactics and builds etc., so if you raid, you should have multiple characters anyway.

In Fractals, Mesmers are outclassed by practically everyone. In T1 and T2 you can bring almost any class, doesn't matter, T3 is where things start getting harder and in T4 you should have an optimal build. Mesmers aren't that optimal in raids.

In WvW, Mesmers are reduced to kind of support kind of utility Chronomancer, and their damage is nerfed to the ground. Mirage elite in WvW and PvP has only one dodge and it's so jarring having to play like that because of how the game works so Mirage in WvW is dead.

I don't play PvP, nor have i read anything about Mesmers there so i can't comment on that.

The "Mesmers are not viable" thing goes a lot more deeper than just that though, but it would take me a looong time to explain everyting that's wrong with the profession.If you want to, just read the mesmer forums, a lot of people including myself explain and discuss what and why something doesn't work. Especially because people remember Mesmers from before and how good they were. A lot of the Nerfs Mesmers recieved have never been balanced with compensation. Usually when a class gets nerfed, they get something else to balance that nerf out but which doesn't make it as strong as it was before the nerf. Mesmers just got nerfed for years.

You shouldn't worry yourself about any of that though. If you're having fun playing a Mesmer, then that's the profession for you. Endgame has some issues in some spots with it, but you can still have fun even despite that. It only becomes apparent when you see how other classes vastly outperform Mesmers in the same are Mesmers are supposed to be good at.

I myself main a Mesmer, and i play Condi Staff Mirage meme build in Open world and dungeons, Support Chronomancer in WvW, but i take my Berserker to Fractals.Bottom line is, if it's fun, don't change it. If you're only worried about being on the top, there's other professions. But i guess thats' what character slots are for.

[Jerikko.2618]

Wow, thank you for the very detailed response! So the take away is Mesmer is "de-classed" by many others for endgame PvE. However, as I do enjoy the play style and it is perfectly capable in Open World/Story then I can enjoy and take it to 80 and then use one of my boosts for another class if need be. Thank you again for your response and the information!

[mungozen.2379]

@Jerikko.2618 said:I am new to GW2, first character is only level 30. I really enjoy mesmer play style. I haven't played a class like it in any other MMO and it keeps me engaged more than other classes, since there is a bit more micro-management. I also enjoy the mobility and flashy play style. I figured since this is my first play through character I will mostly focus on PvE/story/leveling/achievements. I have seen a lot of posts stating the mesmer is no longer viable with recent nerfs and is a struggle, so my question is will I have a hard time in PvE content as a mesmer? Open world/Fractals/Raids? Or are the struggles of the class mostly limited to PvP? Thanks in advance for any responses.

Ignore the noise and use your own instincts regarding Mesmer.

In the past year or so, Mesmer has not changed much if at all. Prior to a year ago Mesmer was at the end of multiple years of nerfs and profession changes which kept the Mesmer players upset. Many Mesmer players continue to feel salty about these changes even though nothing has changed in about a year. I am betting that nothing substantial will happen with Mesmer until End of Dragons launches and PvE (and PvP/WvW) should get a balance patch prior to the new Elite Specs being launched.

I would opine that Mesmer is actually in a pretty good place if you acknowledge where the shortfall is. It doesn't have the build strength to compete in most high end content. That is mostly due to other professions A: being easier to pilot and B: offering more substantial DPS and Support for less effort.

However, understanding that high end content is very strict for all professions is important context. In raiding you can bring a Mesmer, but expect to play a specific build and fulfill specific roles within that context. This is the same for all Professions in high end Fractals, Raids, Strikes and PvP. Some profs do have an easier time as they have good flexibility such as Guardian but a lot are pigeonholed into a specific build and playstyle depending on the game mode.

In GW2 we call this pigeonholing the 'Meta', and many players here expect you to use Meta builds. This is where a lot of friction comes from when looking into top end content.

I started Mesmer as my Main about a year ago as well (moving away from Necro and Ranger) and the playstyle is exactly what I enjoy. Lots of button clicks if I want, lots of interesting decisions to be made during combat, decent DPS and Survivability. You should be able to solo pretty much everything Open World short of some Champions and Legendary mobs, complete all the story steps, and any other open world content available using Mesmer (all Profs offer that).

I would suggest continue playing the Mesmer since you enjoy playing the game with it, and not worry about the upper crust this game offers until you are closer to it. By the time EoD drops there should be enough of a shakeup that Mesmer will have a new place in the Meta. possible appearing to be relevant again. If not, once you have one Profession at 80 power leveling another specifically for Fractals or Raids is not hard at all. We may even get a free lvl 80 boost with EoD.

[Veprovina.4876]

@"Jerikko.2618" said:Wow, thank you for the very detailed response! So the take away is Mesmer is "de-classed" by many others for endgame PvE. However, as I do enjoy the play style and it is perfectly capable in Open World/Story then I can enjoy and take it to 80 and then use one of my boosts for another class if need be. Thank you again for your response and the information!

Exactly! For like, 90% of the game content, you won't ever have to care about what Mesmer's shortcomings are, you won't even see them. It only ever comes into question in some pretty specific content where they get outclassed by pretty much everyone. But that doesn't even have to take away your enjoyment if you play that content either.

If you want to do different endgame content at some point, just make sure you have a few builds available to make up for some of the shortcomings. That way, you can have a DPS build for Open world and a support build for WvW for instance because a DPS Mesmer doesn't work in WvW. A support Chrono on the other hand does, and it's pretty good. I play support in WvW and in organised fights, i'm almost always top 5 boonstrips. In PUG groups, i'm often first. It's also extremely tanky with 30k HP and 2 blocks with a shield, you can survive almost anything even when standing directly in the AOE spam. I did a Wintersday strike with this build too and you can basically stand in just one spot and strip/buff/heal others, that's how tanky it is. Granted, that one isn't exactly hard but still... The difference is, i can't play DPS in those situations, that's the limitation for instance.

And as Mungo Zen said, being shoehorned into one specific meta build for one specific thing isn't limited to Mesmers. Most people don't accept experimental builds in this game. That's just how it is. So if you want to Raid with a Mesmer, you can, but you'll be expected to do a very specific thing on a very specific build.

All in all, you won't see any of that like i said, for the majority of the game's content. So if you enjoy the playstyle, just do it, play a Mesmer, it'll be completely fine and you'll be able to complete most of the content with no problems. There's even some Meme builds like the Staff Mirage that i play that is able to solo Legendary mobs. Its' kind of ridiculously funny when you start a map meta by yourself, and finish it by yourself lol. My fingers hurt like hell after that but you get the point, Mesmers can be extremely fun to play. :smile:

And if you come across some content that your Mesmer isn't doing well in, you can always find another class you like to play, boost it and join. For me, that's a Berserker for Fractals, and that's the only content i use him for. Everything else i do on my Mesmer.

[TheOneWhoSighs.7513]

Since no one commented on SPvP viability. It largely depends on the map. Mesmer is a +1 in a fight. You shouldn't really ever partake in team fights, as you'll lose. You just don't bring as much as other classes to a team fight, though you can potentially pick off an already weakened player in one.

Your focus should be on out rotating the enemy, forcing decaps, and just generally forcing the enemy to chase you. This is nice on some maps, harder on others. Kyhlo? Prepare for a pretty rough time. This is because an enemy can easily spot you rotating from mid, and respond before you can really do much. Capricorn? You can actually have some fun if you're not spotted. Coliseum is much the same as Capricorn. Skyhammer is miserable. etc etc.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Jerikko.2618" said:Wow, thank you for the very detailed response! So the take away is Mesmer is "de-classed" by many others for endgame PvE. However, as I do enjoy the play style and it is perfectly capable in Open World/Story then I can enjoy and take it to 80 and then use one of my boosts for another class if need be. Thank you again for your response and the information!

as someone who has take mesmer to end-game content and made another class i will leave my opinion on the matter.Open world solo -> everything is goodOpen world multiple people -> everything is good, but when it comes to meta events power mirage tags super well ( good for farming gold )Dungeons/Fractals -> this is where mesmer comes in as B tier, other classes do loads of stuff better and easier, but you have couple of tricks up your sleeve ( portal skips mainly ) but its still playable, just not as good as other classesRaids -> mesmer is really fucking good, Cmes is one of the best condi classes, Pchrono is one of the best power classes ( its annoying as fuck to play due to many reasons but it cant be denied that its good, and when things are set up right, overpowered as fuck ) and chrono tank is requested in many encounters, over all S tier for raids IMO.PvP -> it sucks and eveyone will hate you, your enemies will whine you are OP no skill, your allies will hate you cuz mesmer sucks, devs will hate you, after a year or 2 you will hate yourself too.WvW -> even fucking worse then pvp, yikes.

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

@"Jerikko.2618" said:Wow, thank you for the very detailed response! So the take away is Mesmer is "de-classed" by many others for endgame PvE. However, as I do enjoy the play style and it is perfectly capable in Open World/Story then I can enjoy and take it to 80 and then use one of my boosts for another class if need be. Thank you again for your response and the information!

It's great in open world. I love both condi Mirage and power Mirage - although it is a highly mobile spec, Mirage is actually one of the more chill specs to play, thanks to all the evades. Chrono is great with all its boons...but I still prefer Mirage.

Condi staff Mirage:

[Veprovina.4876]

@TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

@"Jerikko.2618" said:Wow, thank you for the very detailed response! So the take away is Mesmer is "de-classed" by many others for endgame PvE. However, as I do enjoy the play style and it is perfectly capable in Open World/Story then I can enjoy and take it to 80 and then use one of my boosts for another class if need be. Thank you again for your response and the information!

It's great in open world. I love both condi Mirage and power Mirage - although it is a highly mobile spec, Mirage is actually one of the more chill specs to play, thanks to all the evades. Chrono is great with all its boons...but I still prefer Mirage.

Condi staff Mirage:

I use that build too, it's hilarious! :smile:In a good way!

Before that, i used a crit Chrono and that was also fun, but it was kinda glass cannon and soloing Champs was a lot harder (but doable).So i switched to Staff-i mean-chill mode. :wink:

[Jerikko.2618]

Thank you so much for the responses! I've continued my mesmer and am now level 30 and have not looked back! I dabbled with mirage in the mists and it is exactly my playstyle, mobile and quick. I have even had no trouble with soloing veterans while leveling bc I can hop around and use illusions. I appreciate the info from everyone and will definitely continue to main my mesmer!

[Junkpile.7439]

In pve i use one hit chronomancer. I one hit mobs and block when they try to hit me.

[Daishi.6027]

Outclassed by everything except in open world PvE, which everyone can do anyways.

It is a crime what has been done to mesmer in competitive modes, and poor design that makes it mediocre in group content.

Yet a-net is content, then wonders why the game bleeds players.

[Mik.3401]

@Daishi.6027 said:Outclassed by everything except in open world PvE, which everyone can do anyways.

It is a crime what has been done to mesmer in competitive modes, and poor design that makes it mediocre in group content.

Yet a-net is content, then wonders why the game bleeds players.

I just don’t understand this attitude, Mirage does perfectly well in ranked pvp, and Chronomancer is easy to pull top dps in raids, and even in most fractal groups. From my experience Mesmer is great in every game mode basically. And because it lost 1 dodge in pvp and F4 in pve everyone call it a trash class. That couldn’t be any more far from truth

[Salt Mode.3780]

@Mik.3401 said:

@"Daishi.6027" said:Outclassed by everything except in open world PvE, which everyone can do anyways.

It is a crime what has been done to mesmer in competitive modes, and poor design that makes it mediocre in group content.

Yet a-net is content, then wonders why the game bleeds players.

I just don’t understand this attitude, Mirage does perfectly well in ranked pvp, and Chronomancer is easy to pull top dps in raids, and even in most fractal groups. From my experience Mesmer is great in every game mode basically. And because it lost 1 dodge in pvp and F4 in pve everyone call it a trash class. That couldn’t be any more far from truth

First off from the comment it says it is outclassed which is true. Mirage can do "perfectly" well in ranked pvp on the right hands but there are other classes that simply do better.2nd SPvP mesmers maybe able to do "perfectly" fine but another game mode people seem to ignore (even anet devs) is WvW where it isnt that case.In terms of raid yes Chronomancer can easily pull top dps but that requires the chronomancer to know the mechanic extremely well from the boss and i guess someone who is experienced in raids have no issues with that, but in comparison with rotation wise power DH is easier for someone who is just getting into raid.

[TheOneWhoSighs.7513]

@Mik.3401 said:

@"Daishi.6027" said:Outclassed by everything except in open world PvE, which everyone can do anyways.

It is a crime what has been done to mesmer in competitive modes, and poor design that makes it mediocre in group content.

Yet a-net is content, then wonders why the game bleeds players.

I just don’t understand this attitude, Mirage does perfectly well in ranked pvp, and Chronomancer is easy to pull top dps in raids, and even in most fractal groups. From my experience Mesmer is great in every game mode basically. And because it lost 1 dodge in pvp and F4 in pve everyone call it a trash class. That couldn’t be any more far from truth

Raid, mesmer is pretty solid for a lot of raids. Open world, mesmer does okay. Fractals, mesmer does okay but is outclassed.

Ranked PvP? Mesmer is 100% outclassed. Yes, you can do well with Mesmer. Hell, you could do well with core mesmer, which is unquestionably in a worse spot than Chrono or Mirage is in.

The thing is though, you're going to have to be pretty fucking good at Mesmer & really know the class & game mode to do well on Mesmer in SPvP. Which isn't a huge ask, but it's something a player needs to know. When you compare that to, say, Necro? It's not even close. It's so much easier to play Necro, and on top of that, Necro brings a lot to a team fight. The role mesmer (and subsequently thief) slot into is a role that can perform amazingly well with good skill & good rotations on some maps. But other maps will completely shut you down and you won't accomplish anything.

And that's not even getting into the fact that, honestly. If you want to do that duelist role better, just play decap druid.

And then you have World vs World. Lord, WvW...

Mesmer in WvW can provide a decent amount of strips in WvW, and provide IoL. But that's like, it."But what about veil" what about it? How often is veil more useful than Scrappers swapping templates to bomb kit, putting down smoke bombs, and stealthing up? And then using gyro if they end up needing even more stealth on the push.

Veil is this relic of the past that some of us cling to, that I don't personally think offers as much as people think it does. More often than not, you're already running the scrappers. If anyone really needs access to veil, the commander can run mesmer and run veil. In fact, it's a lot more foolproof if the commander runs veil.

Mesmer in WvW is just... disappointing. Even among the support roles in WvW, it just doesn't feel impactful or fun. I can actually find enjoyment out of support scrapper or firebrand. But support chrono just feels like you're not doing anything most of the time.

[Daishi.6027]

It doesn't matter if you can do better with a handicap. The point is you shouldn't have to overcome a handicap to compete when the handicap is literally the devs fault and they refuse to fix it. Despite on all accounts it being a double standard to the entire rest of the game.

[Veprovina.4876]

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@Mik.3401 said:

@"Daishi.6027" said:Outclassed by everything except in open world PvE, which everyone can do anyways.

It is a crime what has been done to mesmer in competitive modes, and poor design that makes it mediocre in group content.

Yet a-net is content, then wonders why the game bleeds players.

I just don’t understand this attitude, Mirage does perfectly well in ranked pvp, and Chronomancer is easy to pull top dps in raids, and even in most fractal groups. From my experience Mesmer is great in every game mode basically. And because it lost 1 dodge in pvp and F4 in pve everyone call it a trash class. That couldn’t be any more far from truth

Raid, mesmer is pretty solid for a lot of raids. Open world, mesmer does okay. Fractals, mesmer does okay but is outclassed.

Ranked PvP? Mesmer is 100% outclassed. Yes, you can do well with Mesmer. Hell, you could do well with core mesmer, which is unquestionably in a worse spot than Chrono or Mirage is in.

The thing is though, you're going to have to be pretty kitten good at Mesmer & really know the class & game mode to do well on Mesmer in SPvP. Which isn't a huge ask, but it's something a player needs to know. When you compare that to, say, Necro? It's not even close. It's so much easier to play Necro, and on top of that, Necro brings a lot to a team fight. The role mesmer (and subsequently thief) slot into is a role that can perform amazingly well with good skill & good rotations on some maps. But other maps will completely shut you down and you won't accomplish anything.

And that's not even getting into the fact that, honestly. If you want to do that duelist role better, just play decap druid.

And then you have World vs World. Lord, WvW...

Mesmer in WvW can provide a decent amount of strips in WvW, and provide IoL. But that's like, it."But what about veil" what about it? How often is veil more useful than Scrappers swapping templates to bomb kit, putting down smoke bombs, and stealthing up? And then using gyro if they end up needing even more stealth on the push.

Veil is this relic of the past that some of us cling to, that I don't personally think offers as much as people think it does. More often than not, you're already running the scrappers. If anyone really needs access to veil, the commander can run mesmer and run veil. In fact, it's a lot more foolproof if the commander runs veil.

Mesmer in WvW is just... disappointing. Even among the support roles in WvW, it just doesn't feel impactful or fun. I can actually find enjoyment out of support scrapper or firebrand. But support chrono just feels like you're not doing anything most of the time.

So much this lol. People also refuse to understand that, even if you're super good on Mesmer, your skills are so buggy and unreliable that it's exponentially harder to pull off anything consistently which NONE of the classes have to deal with. And then we're supposed to also have tradeoffs, man, our profession mechanic is a huge tradeoff, give us our DODGE BACK!!! :disappointed:

In PUG groups in WvW i can usually be top strips, but that's because i have around 1500 hours on a Mesmer and i know what i'm doing, plus, strips and pulls is all i do. I have to singlemindedly spec into 1 exact thing and do only that. In a more organised experienced groups that i run, every necro and spllbreaker can outstrip me AND bring a lot of other things to the table at the same time. If i can do just one thing, i should be able to do it better than any class out there, no tradeoffs, no nothing because doing just 1 thing is in itself a tradeoff.

Mesmer OP, give me a break...

[Yoci.2481]

Not to mention small scale WvW and roaming, where you basically play the PvP version of Mesmer versus the PvE Version of other roamers.