Having trouble fighting classes that teleports

[frareanselm.1925]

I play the sic em soulbeast with marauder+berserker stats, I've found specially classes that can teleport to me constatly like (s/s renegade, thief, weaver) kill me without option to counterplay.I'm unable to keep the fight ranged when they teleport to my feet and I have to swap to melee and obviously die.I've tried greatsword, dagger/axe, axe/axe, sword/axe, and i cannt win a melee fight, never.Also necros teleport to me and freeze me I have no options to keep it ranged.

Is any strategy to fight this kind of classes?

[Abyssisis.3971]

I save lb3 and gs3 for escape when using lightning reflexes to create distance and depending on the pet, birds have their swoop, smokescale can provide stealth via smoke field/leap finishers.

[Choppy.4183]

As above, lb3 for the stealth plus quick mobility skills are key, as is lb4 if it's up. Note that the most competent players are trying to stay in your flank spots to negate your bow, so you outsmart them to keep them in front of you so you can land lb3 or lb4. Lighting Reflexes can help (as noted by Ayssisis, but I don't have it on my bar so it's not mandatory (great skill though). Even a backwards dodge can do it, sometimes.

But you also have tools to hang in melee in a lot of cases. Your gs4 can allow you to weather a lot of their burst (if blockable), and then you can counter pressure with Mauls. Or they may not have stab or blindness up, in which case you may just be able to stun them with a quick gs5 to change the tide. If you're running sword, you can use your evade attacks to attack and counter at the same time, and axe offhand can provide you with the counterpressure to make them flee out of melee or suffer huge losses.

Necros have limited porting potential, but, yeah, they have to have the tools to port, pull, freeze, fear to stand a chance against you. Otherwise they're just a long fight with an inevitable conclusion. Learn the tells and then dodge the big ones, but keep something like Lighting Reflexes handy in case you screw up and can see you're about to eat a serious burst. A good condi clear too, since they're going to try to bury you in chill and other nasty things.

I don't find necros to be the most difficult fights if I have unlimited time and space, but they can be a big threat when one or both of those windows are closed, assuming the necro knows what s/he's doing. Like you seem to be trying to do, keep them at range as much as you can, and only close (or hang in melee) as long as you have an exit strategy. Basically, play like a thief when in melee.

That's what I do, anyway.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Bird + GS is a 2200 unit leap, use that to kite. Don't rely on LB #3 too much for stealth as it's easy to mess up (too easy actually), I'd instead rely on Dolyak for your CC avoiding needs. You probably need to run tankier as well if you are dying to melee that fast--protection helps, and run anything but Berserker, it's not worth it if you keep getting downed.

The classes you named just do power better or are more 'power resistant' as well, like weavers are extremely hard to kill on a power build because of the barrier. Thief has way, way more burst potential so fighting a good one is going to be very tough if you switch to LB at the wrong time. To put it simply, LB is a giant 'kill me' sign to pretty much anyone, as you can't kite at all with it unless you have bird, then you do get at least a single 1200 leap if they don't CC you.

I'd also look into boon beast as well if you want to stay power, as the sic em' glass cannon I've never seen the appeal to. Like, if you are running any defensive traitline with it (WS/NM) you are taking a huge damage hit and it's just not worth it. I've found most use for that in groups where I'm not focused, then it can be deadly.

[bigo.9037]

Bird sucks. Use smokescale, most viable pet for 1v1.

Gs is insanely strong melee weapon, probably the single most versatile and strong melee weapon in the game when paired with smokescale merge abilities.

You basically wanna utilitize stealth as much as possible against these classes. A properly built ele and renegade should be pretty much even fight tbh.

All i can really tell you is to practice duels/1v1s. Save your lb 3 for when they go melee, or you know they are about to port into your face (renegade assassins stance) , blow them up with gs, use your block well coupled with the knock back, and save your GS 3 for leap into smokefield for stealth and reposition, followed by another longbow rotation. Use smoke assault as a defensive tool unless you know you’re outplaying your enemy and they have nothing left, you can also use OWP + smoke assault for insane dmg. Dolyak stance stacks with protection boon so you can get -66% dmg reduction with that skill, meaning you can facetank ppls dmg and still hit them very hard. 99% of the time, only use dolyak in melee vs these specs. If you fight ranger 1v1, you can use dolyak while you both trade rapidfires if you failed your stealth or KB on them.

[Choppy.4183]

@bigo.9037 said:Bird sucks. Use smokescale, most viable pet for 1v1.

Gs is insanely strong melee weapon, probably the single most versatile and strong melee weapon in the game when paired with smokescale merge abilities.

You basically wanna utilitize stealth as much as possible against these classes. A properly built ele and renegade should be pretty much even fight tbh.

All i can really tell you is to practice duels/1v1s. Save your lb 3 for when they go melee, or you know they are about to port into your face (renegade assassins stance) , blow them up with gs, use your block well coupled with the knock back, and save your GS 3 for leap into smokefield for stealth and reposition, followed by another longbow rotation. Use smoke assault as a defensive tool unless you know you’re outplaying your enemy and they have nothing left, you can also use OWP + smoke assault for insane dmg. Dolyak stance stacks with protection boon so you can get -66% dmg reduction with that skill, meaning you can facetank ppls dmg and still hit them very hard. 99% of the time, only use dolyak in melee vs these specs. If you fight ranger 1v1, you can use dolyak while you both trade rapidfires if you failed your stealth or KB on them.

That's some high quality advice right there. I hadn't even considered using OWP to lever up the comparatively low smoke assault damage. Might have to go back to gs and smokescreen for a bit, at least for some duels... maybe roaming too, if I can get proficient enough with smoke stealth to offset the mobility loss of an alternet pet.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

@bigo.9037 said:Bird sucks. Use smokescale, most viable pet for 1v1.

Gs is insanely strong melee weapon, probably the single most versatile and strong melee weapon in the game when paired with smokescale merge abilities.

You basically wanna utilitize stealth as much as possible against these classes. A properly built ele and renegade should be pretty much even fight tbh.

All i can really tell you is to practice duels/1v1s. Save your lb 3 for when they go melee, or you know they are about to port into your face (renegade assassins stance) , blow them up with gs, use your block well coupled with the knock back, and save your GS 3 for leap into smokefield for stealth and reposition, followed by another longbow rotation. Use smoke assault as a defensive tool unless you know you’re outplaying your enemy and they have nothing left, you can also use OWP + smoke assault for insane dmg. Dolyak stance stacks with protection boon so you can get -66% dmg reduction with that skill, meaning you can facetank ppls dmg and still hit them very hard. 99% of the time, only use dolyak in melee vs these specs. If you fight ranger 1v1, you can use dolyak while you both trade rapidfires if you failed your stealth or KB on them.

Gonna agree to disagree about bird. I don't like wasting my escape (GS #3) on leaping through a field that is going to be in an essentially random place unless you keep your pet on passive. I like bird as it is perma swiftness and if you want the skill play just use the 1200 range bird leap and LB #3 into stealth instead of having to try to shoehorn the field. The smokescale field is only really nice if you run warhorn as you can blast through it and get boons with no need to waste any escape/kite tool.

Smokescale damage is also awful in comparison to something like Rock Gazelle; really the only thing it has going for it is the field. The merge ability is fine unless they move, then it does nothing (same with worldly impact, just sidestep it).

[bigo.9037]

On 4/19/2021 at 8:24 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Gonna agree to disagree about bird. I don't like wasting my escape (GS #3) on leaping through a field that is going to be in an essentially random place unless you keep your pet on passive. I like bird as it is perma swiftness and if you want the skill play just use the 1200 range bird leap and LB #3 into stealth instead of having to try to shoehorn the field. The smokescale field is only really nice if you run warhorn as you can blast through it and get boons with no need to waste any escape/kite tool.

Smokescale damage is also awful in comparison to something like Rock Gazelle; really the only thing it has going for it is the field. The merge ability is fine unless they move, then it does nothing (same with worldly impact, just sidestep it).

I’m sorry what exactly are you running from? Why do you need 2200 combined leap distance in a 1v1 or 2v2??? Lol. 
Bird is too predictable. I routinely use smoke assault when i know enemy ranger is about to use bird leap and TADAAA he just took minimum 5k dmg and he wasted his leap while doing no dmg to me. Merged bird has merged skill that provides swiftness which is also 100% useless most of the time as you should already have perma swiftness anyway. In 3s of stealth you can move much more freely than a single GS#3 leap will allow you to do, so it’s well worth it.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

14 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

I’m sorry what exactly are you running from? Why do you need 2200 combined leap distance in a 1v1 or 2v2??? Lol. 
Bird is too predictable. I routinely use smoke assault when i know enemy ranger is about to use bird leap and TADAAA he just took minimum 5k dmg and he wasted his leap while doing no dmg to me. Merged bird has merged skill that provides swiftness which is also 100% useless most of the time as you should already have perma swiftness anyway. In 3s of stealth you can move much more freely than a single GS#3 leap will allow you to do, so it’s well worth it.

I agree with both of you :). Both bird and smokescale are good and they are one better than other in different situations.

I mostly running smokescale when I am fighting in 1 vs 1 or more vs more, I mean usually when are even numbers in my team vs enemy team. But when I am running with my small roaming group of 3 or 4 (thiefs mostly) vs bigger group than us, I am using bird, because bird is better to run away than any pet. Yes the smoke invisibility is good, but these days almost everyone has reveal, or if you are fighting near a sentry, tower with marked debuff , having invisibility ability is useless.

[KeyOrion.9506]

Fight mobility with mobility.  Shortbow, Sword/Dagger, Hound/Wolf. Shortbow for pushing back, Sword/Dagger for the extra dodges, Hound to root the enemy, Wolf to fear them.  You can easily stay alive against a thief, maybe a few ele's.  Can't say it'll work against a condi Mesmer because you'll take damage for moving from torment, or using skills when your hit up with Confusion.  But I used to not be able to catch Thieves, and most thieves were unable to catch me, even if they had Basilisk Venom.  Most OP thieves would count to three before the attack, so i'd count to 2 and hit one of the skills and that's when they were shadowstepping to my position.  One guy called me a cheater, and I told him to start randomly counting between the start of his Cloak to the end of his cloak of when he was going to launch his attack.  He was able to hit me, but he always feel back into the three second routine of attacking after cloaking.   🙂 Smokescale I have lots of fun on vs. thief porting.  I'd bond with my pet and mash the Smokescale assault button after the enemy cloaked.  It also works if I stand my position while mashing that same position and the enemy teleports to me to attack, my Smokescale assault begins and i'm doing more damage to them than they were on me, and when they port back to their original position even in less than a second, I port with them to their original position. 😛  You got some crazy options vs. those teleporters.