The confusing disconnect between developers and players; Scrapper's new obtuse identity

[Cuilan.7091]

Preface

As a good week remains before another yearly scrapper change, I collected my thoughts thoughts and reconcile the past 8,000+ hours on Scrapper. The following Essay, introspect, or whatever you may call is a look on my personal (And a few others) favorite Elite Specialization, and its future with the up coming patch.

 

Choice, its what gives Guild Wars 2 its drive and its dedicated Player-base something to ponder and experiment with. From its broad fashion styles to its in-depth build options and class diversity, there is always something for everyone. From the depths and the deep end of the meta lies a small-hammer wielding monster that has seen a wild ride of changes and reworks that rivals Ryze's from League of Legends. Though just like the Blue Mage Murderball, Scrapper has its own Identity.

 

A Sustain based, bruiser.

 

From the loss of Final Salvo, to the introduction of Impact Savant; Scrapper was always encouraged to make themselves the projectile and go wild into uneven fights. As Scrapper was developed and changed over the years, this Hyper Bruiser saw diversity in its playstyle with the Introduction of Wells, and more importantly its Traits. While it didn't had the finesse and design as PoF Elite specs; it was clear where the choices Scrapper had.

 

Top line, The Selfish Support

Gyroscopic Acceleration, Damage Dampener and Adaptive Armor are all traits focused on keeping yourself alive, whilst giving your team easier access to your wells, and with substantial amount of super-speed to pad things out. The latter two traits are rather dull by design, but offer solid defenses that is often seen play in WvW and off-season Ranked in 2v2s / 3v3s. In sPvP and Fractals / Raids, you would never see these traits taken as they're overshadowed by their other options and due to the following trait~

 

Impact Savant, Kill to heal, or Heal to kill?

 

15% (10% in sPvP, but I only got myself to blame for that) of outgoing Damage is returned as barrier, and with a reduction of Max HP to compensate. An interesting dilemma that Scrapper is given, do you build towards more offensive lines and be reward with great sustain? Or do you double down on the Top trait lines and pick more defensive stats? The ladder is generally never hitting enough numbers to even remotely give value for the HP lost, especially in World Vs World where you're consistently cycling through Kits to sustain your group while never touching any form of Damage (Such Sustain ends up healing yourself back up). The Former playstyle sees much more use in Roaming and in sPvP, scrappers are rewarded heftily for playing offensive, and more so due to the next set of traits

 

Middle line, Removing Fun

Scrapper has always had access to extremely potent forms of disables and control. This level of driving over its foes was encouraged with System Shocker, Expert Examination and most importantly (And controversially) Kinetic Stabilizers, the main reason why I bother coming to this desolate place. Though to keep with consistency I'll be saving those thought for the later part of this post. To wind things back, these traits paired well with highly offensive stats and utilities as it rewarded scrapper for Dunking first, and Dunking while dunking; Chaining obscene combo's and timing big damage bombs (Literally in some cases). Though as this play style found little, but successful use (only me really) it was greatly overshadowed by its counterpart. Decap Scrapper.

 

Decap Scrapper found its way throughout sPvP due to its interactions with Kinetic Stabilizers and Core Engineer Utilities. disabling foes while being immune to disables yourself led to extreme degenerate gameplay, top it off with defensive options that ALL classes have access to and you have one person controlling the entire game for merely existing . After its swift death due to the nerfs to Gadgets and System Shocker, Scrapper was left with little to play around with in sPvP.

 

Bottom of the Barrell, with some okay fish

These last few scrapper traits all rely on combining other traits to be effective. From Flamethrower Builds to HGH Elixir spam, it was straight forward might and damage for just merely using your utilities or just simply doing nothing. Scrappers that run Alchemy would always flock to these traits due to natural synergies, but it was never needed due to interactions with other traits. Though that brings us to the upcoming set of changes.

 

The Tanky, the Confused and the Confined.

The introduction of Kinetic Accelerators is a welcoming and interesting change across the game; but at the cost of Kinetic Stabilizers? An Offensive oriented trait being reworked to be support focused? The simplicity of Damage Dampener and Adaptive Armor Untouched? The solid 3 sub-roles that scrapper had is now being blended and overlapped. Yes its arguable the lost of Kinetic Stabilizers is healthy to prevent Decap Scrapper from returning, but in its place is an awkward traits that competes with Adaptive Armor in the 'Support' Category. 

 

Thought Stabilizers didn't really died, it only got reshaped into Applied Force, which encourages might generation and rewards Stability for hitting the threshold. A big lost for Flamethrower PvE builds but a bigger lost for Scrappers wanting a source of Stability without overly investing into traits and utilities. The raw Might Generation and value of Alchemy would shine even brighter as the defacto Trait that DPS Scrappers gun for.

 

Closing words

I'm more confused than anything over these changes, like how Speed Of Synergy was oddly changed from Blast / Leaps to on Healing. That aside, I would gladly love to see some design philosophy on the removal / replacement of these traits and the general Idea that you (the developers) have envisioned for Scrapper. Since I think we can both agree that we're not looking at the same class.

[Kodama.6453]

There definitely is a disconnect.

 

Scrapper got designed as a mostly selfish bruiser. Sure, we get gyros which have some supportive features, but the trait line used to be almost entirely selfish.

 

People still kept playing scrapper in support builds for WvW, but not because the class got designed as a support in the first place. Core engineer already has some great support qualities thanks to the med kit and strong traits like purity of purpose. But the core class just has 2 support trait lines to utilise the class as a support (inventions + alchemy), the third slot was basically open to get filled with whatever.

 

Since scrapper has some additional support through gyros, it is taken for this build, even if that means accepting that you have dead traits in your build. Impact savant, the trait which converts your power damage into barrier, is basically useless for this build, since you spend most of your time in med kit anyway and therefore don't deal any damage.

 

Anet now seems to think that there is a general interest in moving scrapper towards a support playstyle, even if this hasn't been their own initial intention. "Give the players what they want" is the philosophy here now it seems, if people keep playing scrapper as a support because of the lack of a proper third support trait line, then they just change it up to become one.

 

I think it would have been better to keep scrapper designed as a selfish bruiser and give us a true support elite spec by design with the next expansion (like how scourge or firebrand have been for their respective classes), but I guess they can still give us one. Considering that they also gave mirage alacrity support with these changes, while chrono with alacrity and quickness support still exists.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Detergente Ariel.8147]

I fear my lovely scrapper become a full support.

 

I can not comment of how much this patch can change scrapper. I can only say and hope Anet hold the three path viable (tanky, supportive and smashy)

[rrusse.7058]

5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Anet now seems to think that there is a general interest in moving scrapper towards a support playstyle, even if this hasn't been their own initial intention. "Give the players what they want" is the philosophy here now it seems, if people keep playing scrapper as a support because of the lack of a proper third support trait line, then they just change it up to become one.

If Arenanet feels that is the case, then I believe that is a misinterpretation of community/player wants. I mean Arenanet even says that Scrapper only seems to see support play in WvW. Why? Due to the ability to not just condi cleanse, but to convert them with Purity of Purpose. This came about as a result of a heavy condi meta and zerg battles needing a class to take off huge and frequent condis which can be a challenge to heal through even with Firebrand.

 

We do not yet know what is coming for Engineers with EoD. Maybe it's a damage spec, tank spec, support spec or something in between. I believe Arenanet should be seeing this community playstyle as a desire for specific Engineer players wanting a support option as well as a "game modes have different needs and wants" sort of thing. Not a "I guess the community wants Scrapper for support." thing.

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Detergente Ariel.8147 said:

I fear my lovely scrapper become a full support.

 

I can not comment of how much this patch can change scrapper. I can only say and hope Anet hold the three path viable (tanky, supportive and smashy)

Its still better dps then core eng so it will be an support who can also dps like scorge was before it got nerfed hard and the same thing will happen to scraper in time.

[ThrakathNar.4537]

2 hours ago, rrusse.7058 said:

If Arenanet feels that is the case, then I believe that is a misinterpretation of community/player wants. I mean Arenanet even says that Scrapper only seems to see support play in WvW. Why? Due to the ability to not just condi cleanse, but to convert them with Purity of Purpose. This came about as a result of a heavy condi meta and zerg battles needing a class to take off huge and frequent condis which can be a challenge to heal through even with Firebrand.

 

We do not yet know what is coming for Engineers with EoD. Maybe it's a damage spec, tank spec, support spec or something in between. I believe Arenanet should be seeing this community playstyle as a desire for specific Engineer players wanting a support option as well as a "game modes have different needs and wants" sort of thing. Not a "I guess the community wants Scrapper for support." thing.

As long as Arenanet doesn't cave into people asking for a minionmancer spec for the next expansion, a support spec is a real possibility. That or a condi DPS.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

In my opinion it's good change, but it will require more work yet over time

 

thay schold focus on replacing Middle linde for Quickness support as only 1 trait for Quickness is kinda not inaf

 

That way up line is for Survability, middle line for Quickness, and bottom line for dps

 

Applied Force now will give stab, what with object in montion will give you +5% dmg

 

Also Mass monument will give you might if you got stab

 

And Survability Line, can be used in pvp/wvw to be more tanky as heal (if you will be offheal) or even as dps bruiser

 

i got 3k h on scrapper and achived solo 1550 rank in pvp, but i also played alot wvw as roamer scrapper or heal scrapper on zergs, same as i can bech on scrapper in pve

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Ghos.1326]

3 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Its still better dps then core eng so it will be an support who can also dps like scorge was before it got nerfed hard and the same thing will happen to scraper in time.

Eeeehhhh maybe better direct damage than core engi (some builds), but condi core engi is still pretty good since it has the option of running Firearms, Inventions AND Alchemy without losing any of those. That can be a potent combo for a solid lower, yet consistent stream of DoT from main-hand pistol + kits combined with great defense from Inventions + Alchemy synergies.

[schloumou.3982]

14 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

There definitely is a disconnect.

 

Scrapper got designed as a mostly selfish bruiser. Sure, we get gyros which have some supportive features, but the trait line used to be almost entirely selfish.

 

This confused me from the start. The specs' key mechanic was clearly designed as a pure support tool, to the point where it's almost useless in pve, but nearly nothing in the traitline reflected that role. It seems to me that devs have a hard time, finding a coherent concept for Engi in general. All the traitlines look sort of messy and lack synergies compared to other professions.

Edited May 7, 2021 by schloumou.3982

[Jski.6180]

7 hours ago, Ghos.1326 said:

Eeeehhhh maybe better direct damage than core engi (some builds), but condi core engi is still pretty good since it has the option of running Firearms, Inventions AND Alchemy without losing any of those. That can be a potent combo for a solid lower, yet consistent stream of DoT from main-hand pistol + kits combined with great defense from Inventions + Alchemy synergies.

Flame thrower scraper will need a word with you in wvw then the cele update hits lol.

[Ghos.1326]

15 hours ago, schloumou.3982 said:

 

This confused me from the start. The specs' key mechanic was clearly designed as a pure support tool, to the point where it's almost useless in pve, but nearly nothing in the traitline reflected that role. It seems to me that devs have a hard time, finding a coherent concept for Engi in general. All the traitlines look sort of messy and lack synergies compared to other professions.

No it's intended design was to be a tank, which in this game it appears tank means bruiser. Something very hard to take down due to all of the damage mitigations and good damage to compliment it. Hammer reflects this, as it was designed to be around the theme of offense AND defense combined. The problem was that, before this recent patch (big feb balance) Scrapper was doing too much damage, instead of evening out both the defense and offense. The only thing that made Scrapper support-ish was the option of running the trait that granted your gyros a bigger range, elixir gun and healing turret, combined with the crate combo back in the day when function gyro was bound to your F key and not a full on skill that you had to use that replaced the toolbelt elite.

[Kodama.6453]

18 hours ago, schloumou.3982 said:

 

This confused me from the start. The specs' key mechanic was clearly designed as a pure support tool, to the point where it's almost useless in pve, but nearly nothing in the traitline reflected that role. It seems to me that devs have a hard time, finding a coherent concept for Engi in general. All the traitlines look sort of messy and lack synergies compared to other professions.

To be fair, I think we can't count the very early design of scrapper.

 

It is obvious that scrapper got basically completely redesigned in the last minutes, everything is pointing at it, scrapper was initially supposed to be entirely different.

 

To show some evidence why I think this is the case:

- hammer 3: rocket charge has a huge thematical disconnect from the rest of the weapon. All hammer skills have an electric thematic to them, just rocket charge doesn't and uses an explosive instead. This is because the rocket charge was basically forced to stay in the kit, since it was the only skill shown for scrapper in the announcement for HoT.

- scrapper helmet: doesn't really look fitting for the electric theme as well, it looks more like a furnace. I think this is an additional hint that the spec was initially supposed to be about heat (idea later recycled for holosmith)

- dev posts were talking about a "fuel" mechanic for gyros, didn't make it into the game, fuel was just a pseudo-duration marker.

- The leaked name for the spec back then has been "forge"

- on the presentation stream, no skill animations nor icons were really ready to show off, most likely because they started to redesign the spec shortly before

 

Scrapper got alot of critique, since it's elite spec mechanic was useless and boring compared to the other classes. I think the function gyro was just a bandaid back then. They were thinking about another mechanic at first (heat?), but when that idea got axed, they had to make up a new elite spec mechanic quickly. That's why the function gyro was so uninspired and not thought through.... Because it was just an act of desperation to begin with.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Kodama.6453