PVP in GW2 is amazing

[Ice Jaster.9813]

 

I recently returned to Guild Wars 2 after 8 years (Last time I logged in was 2013), and I'm completely hooked and have logged over 2k games since January (currently Gold rank).  

 

I come from fighting games (Tekken, Super Smash 64/Melee), played a ton of MMO PVP (WoW, Age of Conan), as well as battle arenas (League of Legends, Battlerite, Blade & Soul).... This game feels like a combination of some of the best/most engaging elements from each genre.  GW2 has elements of fighting games in that you need to read your opponents movement, spacing, and skill animations to react, and absolutely requires high levels of execution to succeed.  Even though combat is heavily focused around cooldowns / burst windows / combos, there is never a time where you feel like you're out of options and there's always an opportunity to make a play if you have the right read on your opponent.  It's similar to a Battle Arena, where typical 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3s should go ~2-3 minutes and teams alternate pressure and defensive strategies, trying to set up enough pressure / cc / burst damage to tip the scales.  Fights actually require thought and extremely high levels of execution, but even when opponents have the upper hand there's still the possibility for a comeback.  And obviously it has the build diversity, move diversity, and complexity we know and love from traditional MMOs. 

 

What's truly amazing is that almost any build / playstyle can be viable in PVP, and the sheer number of builds is truly incredible (obviously some depend on your team).  If you don't believe me, watch top PVP content creators and the unique builds they decide to run, do well with, and most importantly have fun with.  Facing an opponent with an off-meta build doesn't even seem scary; rather it seems familiar in some way, like they're reaching out to you saying "Hey, look at me... I'm an individual".  There are a lot of complaints about "Cheese Builds" or "Cheese Classes", which require very little thought and execution to do really well with.  While lame that a player would rock a brain-dead playstyle simply because of low effort/high return, the Cheese-lord relies on their class to carry them, and can be outplayed by skill and paying attention to the game fundamentals: spacing, targeting, CD management / set-ups, and baiting.  And also sometimes this is a legitimate player who just loves the class / playstyle; to each their own.  At the end of the day, the more skilled players / team wins.

 

Playing this game feels so unique and satisfying (I main Deadeye, Berzerker/Spellbreaker, and Mirage).  Obviously there are flaws - a game this big and complex is impossible to balance perfectly, especially across all game modes.  But for a competitive player looking for deep and satisfying PVP, what GW2 offers in 2v2, 5v5, WvW it is truly an amazing experience.  

 

 

 

 

 

[razaelll.8324]

I share the same opinion, The more i play the game the more i like it. Already playing about 3-4 months and i keep learning new builds and having tons of fun in pvp. Dont let the toxicity of some people to discourage you. 

I would love to see 2v2 and 3v3 deathmatches not only as offseason, in my opinion they are also very fun to play.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Which makes it even sadder that it lacks proper support.

Guild Wars [1] was a PvP game with sizeable PvE content on the side. This was, by all means and purposes, meant to be a PVP game, too.

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

Play me in melee.

[Kreths.8457]

I'm wondering why e-sport left this game like it was the plague itself if pvp is so good ?

[Tokugawa.1268]

38 minutes ago, Kreths.8457 said:

I'm wondering why e-sport left this game like it was the plague itself if pvp is so good ?

2 words. Down State

[Ice Jaster.9813]

4 hours ago, TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:

Play me in melee.

bro duel me

[Noz.4650]

On 5/13/2021 at 3:32 PM, Kreths.8457 said:

I'm wondering why e-sport left this game like it was the plague itself if pvp is so good ?

 

I've been working in esports for a long time and this is what I would say happened:

 

Timing

The game launched in 2012 at the same time as the LoL boom. At that time, every game dev was trying to replicate Riot's success with LoL and make their own "esports" game. Think Tribes: Ascend, Shootmania, Battleborn, list goes on and on. Some devs still try to this day with varying degrees of success but it became clear after a while that you can't simply "make an esports game" and expect it to be successful, or in other words have its competitive scene bring in sustained revenue. Even Overwatch's success was artificially inflated and carried by the fact that it was a Blizzard game. I have no doubt that ANet meant well and set out to make a great PvP game mode from the start, but the way they handled the mode for a few years tells me that they got a bit too greedy with trying to push esports down people's throats to try to get a piece of the esports market and neglected the actual infrastructure of the game mode. In other words, they tried too hard, too early. The reason why people still play Quake to this day is because it's an amazingly well-made game, with an infrastructure that enabled its own community to elevate the game as an esports, and id Software didn't have to do anything.

 

The MMO problem

PvP being a submode of the game really didn't help ANet either. If you wanted to play the game for the PvP, you had to pay full price in an era flooded with f2p games. How do you compete? Having a separate f2p PvP client from the beginning with its own dedicated marketing might have been the solution. Sure, WoW esports has been doing pretty well for ages but that's because it's motherkittening WoW and it's made by motherkittening Blizzard. GW2 PvP is still the only MMO PvP that came even close.

 

Marketing

Everyone knows how bad ANet's marketing has been from day one, like actually non-existent. Compare that to any of hundreds of Asian MMOs and even the worse of them have infinitely better marketing. It's really sad that whenever someone asks about getting started playing GW2, to this day people still link the Angry Joe and TotalBiscuit reviews from 2012. For a game where the combat is its strongest asset, you'd think ANet would lean on that but nope, nothing.

 

The spectator experience

GW2 PvP is really really hard to spectate, even for veteran players. This will always be the biggest issue with it unless ANet decides to rework the spectator experience completely and that's not happening. Overwatch suffered a similar issue even if they really tried their best to improve the experience, it's pure chaos to watch. At the end of the day, you have to make the spectator experience a top priority otherwise it's just not sustainable.

Edited May 15, 2021 by eksn.7264

[Shagie.7612]

1 minute ago, eksn.7264 said:

In other words, they tried too hard, too early.

The game didn't even launch with any form of matchmaking or rated play and took like over a year to finally implement it (somewhere there, I left pretty quickly when the old tournaments ended up being just rando pugs vs premades). 

 

I'm not sure that's very true at all.

It had essentially nothing to foster development of a PvP scene.

[Noz.4650]

2 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

The game didn't even launch with any form of matchmaking or rated play and took like over a year to finally implement it (somewhere there, I left pretty quickly when the old tournaments ended up being just rando pugs vs premades). 

 

I'm not sure that's very true at all.

It had essentially nothing to foster development of a PvP scene.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying: The game was lacking in terms of infrastructure, yet ANet tried to push the game as an esports from day one instead of focusing on making the game as solid as it can be, let the community handle competition and ramp up to your esports program when the game is ready.

[Shagie.7612]

9 minutes ago, eksn.7264 said:

yet ANet tried to push the game as an esports from day one

Did... did they?

 

I don't think they did very much at all. Really hard to qualify any of that as "trying too hard," to me.

If anything that came quite a bit later with the pro league and stuff.

[Noz.4650]

3 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Did... did they?

 

I don't think they did very much at all. Really hard to qualify any of that as "trying too hard," to me.

If anything that came quite a bit later with the pro league and stuff.

 

Sure ESL wasn't involved yet, but from day one it was marketed just like any other esports game at the time.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

20 hours ago, Kreths.8457 said:

I'm wondering why e-sport left this game like it was the plague itself if pvp is so good ?

Cuz its not but the potential is there. Anet could have done one of two things, focus on making a mediocre pve focused game with pvp added on or a pvp focused mmo utizing the games combat mechanics separating it from the rest of the mmo pile of mediocre mmos with mediocre pve and pvp(exception ff14 pve), u can guess the route they chose.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

20 hours ago, Tokugawa.1268 said:

2 words. Down State

Not true. It's the opposite.

 

17 hours ago, eksn.7264 said:

The spectator experience

GW2 PvP is really really hard to spectate, even for veteran players. This will always be the biggest issue with it unless ANet decides to rework the spectator experience completely and that's not happening. Overwatch suffered a similar issue even if they really tried their best to improve the experience, it's pure chaos to watch. At the end of the day, you have to make the spectator experience a top priority otherwise it's just not sustainable.

 

Its this.

Anet tried to go e-sports while the game was at the peak of bunker meta. The matches were boring to watch, so the enthusiasm for it waned earlier than it should have.

I don't think Anet ever recovered from that or let it go. It feels like we've been paying for that turnout for years. 

[periphery.5421]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:18 AM, Ice Jaster.9813 said:

 

I recently returned to Guild Wars 2 after 8 years (Last time I logged in was 2013), and I'm completely hooked and have logged over 2k games since January (currently Gold rank).  

 

I come from fighting games (Tekken, Super Smash 64/Melee), played a ton of MMO PVP (WoW, Age of Conan), as well as battle arenas (League of Legends, Battlerite, Blade & Soul).... This game feels like a combination of some of the best/most engaging elements from each genre.  GW2 has elements of fighting games in that you need to read your opponents movement, spacing, and skill animations to react, and absolutely requires high levels of execution to succeed.  Even though combat is heavily focused around cooldowns / burst windows / combos, there is never a time where you feel like you're out of options and there's always an opportunity to make a play if you have the right read on your opponent.  It's similar to a Battle Arena, where typical 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3s should go ~2-3 minutes and teams alternate pressure and defensive strategies, trying to set up enough pressure / cc / burst damage to tip the scales.  Fights actually require thought and extremely high levels of execution, but even when opponents have the upper hand there's still the possibility for a comeback.  And obviously it has the build diversity, move diversity, and complexity we know and love from traditional MMOs. 

 

What's truly amazing is that almost any build / playstyle can be viable in PVP, and the sheer number of builds is truly incredible (obviously some depend on your team).  If you don't believe me, watch top PVP content creators and the unique builds they decide to run, do well with, and most importantly have fun with.  Facing an opponent with an off-meta build doesn't even seem scary; rather it seems familiar in some way, like they're reaching out to you saying "Hey, look at me... I'm an individual".  There are a lot of complaints about "Cheese Builds" or "Cheese Classes", which require very little thought and execution to do really well with.  While lame that a player would rock a brain-dead playstyle simply because of low effort/high return, the Cheese-lord relies on their class to carry them, and can be outplayed by skill and paying attention to the game fundamentals: spacing, targeting, CD management / set-ups, and baiting.  And also sometimes this is a legitimate player who just loves the class / playstyle; to each their own.  At the end of the day, the more skilled players / team wins.

 

Playing this game feels so unique and satisfying (I main Deadeye, Berzerker/Spellbreaker, and Mirage).  Obviously there are flaws - a game this big and complex is impossible to balance perfectly, especially across all game modes.  But for a competitive player looking for deep and satisfying PVP, what GW2 offers in 2v2, 5v5, WvW it is truly an amazing experience.  

 

 

 

 

 

You might think this is true but you don't have many choices especially as you ascend. Certain professions are completely unplayable. The ones you play happen to be decent, save for Berserker. 

Try playing an Ele, it's complete and utter trash. Plenty of people are brainless and talentless, so they pick the same mesmer one shot build/other builds. Certain builds have unreasonable healing and self sustain at no cost to damage. 

I'm just glad I uninstalled the kitten after getting too invested. 

[razaelll.8324]

6 hours ago, periphery.5421 said:

You might think this is true but you don't have many choices especially as you ascend. Certain professions are completely unplayable. The ones you play happen to be decent, save for Berserker. 

Try playing an Ele, it's complete and utter trash. Plenty of people are brainless and talentless, so they pick the same mesmer one shot build/other builds. Certain builds have unreasonable healing and self sustain at no cost to damage. 

I'm just glad I uninstalled the kitten after getting too invested. 

Ele is not unplayable i am doing well with both tempest and weaver, if you mean core ele only i agree

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

8 hours ago, periphery.5421 said:

You might think this is true but you don't have many choices especially as you ascend. Certain professions are completely unplayable. The ones you play happen to be decent, save for Berserker. 

Try playing an Ele, it's complete and utter trash. Plenty of people are brainless and talentless, so they pick the same mesmer one shot build/other builds. Certain builds have unreasonable healing and self sustain at no cost to damage. 

I'm just glad I uninstalled the kitten after getting too invested. 

It’s very evident you haven’t played in a long time. Weaver is one of the strongest side noders and duelists, tempest is in a solid position. Playing power Mesmer in this game state requires more awareness , game sense and mechanics than pretty much any other class. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[Kickpuncher.8109]

Quote

What's truly amazing is that almost any build / playstyle can be viable in PVP, 

 

 

lol oh noooo

 

PVP in this game is a joke, enjoy it while it lasts because guess what.... this is it... the game hasn't changed in over a year since "ZOMG THE PVP TEAM CAN BALANCE NUMBERS IDEPENDENTLY" back in FEB2020 (2019?) or something. 

 

PVP numbers dropping constantly, and constantly neglected by PVP devs and regular devs who dont actually play the game.

 

 

Looking forward to your "PVP is dead" post in 3 months.

 

Best of luck.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Kickpuncher.8109

[periphery.5421]

On 5/15/2021 at 11:16 AM, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

It’s very evident you haven’t played in a long time. Weaver is one of the strongest side noders and duelists, tempest is in a solid position. Playing power Mesmer in this game state requires more awareness , game sense and mechanics than pretty much any other class. 

I have played plenty in the recent weeks, it's as crap now as it was before. It would be outlandish for anyone to consider playing an Ele over a Guardian/Engi, I've been seeing engis do like 12-20k with the flamethrower per hit which there is no way out of. You're not going to hit that hard and you're going to flatline before you have a chance to react.

 

 

[Shieldbash.5304]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:18 AM, Ice Jaster.9813 said:

What's truly amazing is that almost any build / playstyle can be viable in PVP,

 

I disagree, there are meme spec teams that just play the most OP classes just running around deleting other classes that are in a poor spot.  All Necro / Guardian BS with Invuls, Reflects and Extra life bars...

 

I hope and pray Necros and Guardians are nerfed soon, they've been top dogs for 4 years now!

[Swagg.9236]

Five yuan have been deposited into your account.

[Pimsley.3681]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:18 PM, Ice Jaster.9813 said:

 

I recently returned to Guild Wars 2 after 8 years (Last time I logged in was 2013), and I'm completely hooked and have logged over 2k games since January (currently Gold rank).  

 

I come from fighting games (Tekken, Super Smash 64/Melee), played a ton of MMO PVP (WoW, Age of Conan), as well as battle arenas (League of Legends, Battlerite, Blade & Soul).... This game feels like a combination of some of the best/most engaging elements from each genre.  GW2 has elements of fighting games in that you need to read your opponents movement, spacing, and skill animations to react, and absolutely requires high levels of execution to succeed.  Even though combat is heavily focused around cooldowns / burst windows / combos, there is never a time where you feel like you're out of options and there's always an opportunity to make a play if you have the right read on your opponent.  It's similar to a Battle Arena, where typical 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3s should go ~2-3 minutes and teams alternate pressure and defensive strategies, trying to set up enough pressure / cc / burst damage to tip the scales.  Fights actually require thought and extremely high levels of execution, but even when opponents have the upper hand there's still the possibility for a comeback.  And obviously it has the build diversity, move diversity, and complexity we know and love from traditional MMOs. 

 

What's truly amazing is that almost any build / playstyle can be viable in PVP, and the sheer number of builds is truly incredible (obviously some depend on your team).  If you don't believe me, watch top PVP content creators and the unique builds they decide to run, do well with, and most importantly have fun with.  Facing an opponent with an off-meta build doesn't even seem scary; rather it seems familiar in some way, like they're reaching out to you saying "Hey, look at me... I'm an individual".  There are a lot of complaints about "Cheese Builds" or "Cheese Classes", which require very little thought and execution to do really well with.  While lame that a player would rock a brain-dead playstyle simply because of low effort/high return, the Cheese-lord relies on their class to carry them, and can be outplayed by skill and paying attention to the game fundamentals: spacing, targeting, CD management / set-ups, and baiting.  And also sometimes this is a legitimate player who just loves the class / playstyle; to each their own.  At the end of the day, the more skilled players / team wins.

 

Playing this game feels so unique and satisfying (I main Deadeye, Berzerker/Spellbreaker, and Mirage).  Obviously there are flaws - a game this big and complex is impossible to balance perfectly, especially across all game modes.  But for a competitive player looking for deep and satisfying PVP, what GW2 offers in 2v2, 5v5, WvW it is truly an amazing experience.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the positivity. GW2 pvp is indeed rather amazing. 

My only wish is that more gamers discover and/or return to it. 

 

It's far from perfect but I agree with pretty much everything you said. 

 

Im a half glass full kind of person - the people that come to the forum to vent/complain/comment are the ones that care enough to see changes and improvements. 

 

Someone mentioned about Marketing - I think this mode has so much potential but wrong marketing approach. One perfect example that I can cite is when they "upgraded" to this new forum platform, they lost all of their original content and therefore lost their rankings on Google. My guess is that in the past, the forum was moderated and built in-house. Now, I think they may have "outsourced" to Invision Community. 

 

Back on topic, yeah it's amazing. Imperfect but amazing. Sadly, a lot of people have left already. 

 

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

5 hours ago, periphery.5421 said:

I have played plenty in the recent weeks, it's as crap now as it was before. It would be outlandish for anyone to consider playing an Ele over a Guardian/Engi, I've been seeing engis do like 12-20k with the flamethrower per hit which there is no way out of. You're not going to hit that hard and you're going to flatline before you have a chance to react.

 

 

Sorry but this is a l2p problem. Not a problem with weaver.

[periphery.5421]

3 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Sorry but this is a l2p problem. Not a problem with weaver.

While I understand mongoloids need to have a space to talk, I'd appreciate you go back to the adult foster home that you're from so they can check on you.

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

1 hour ago, periphery.5421 said:

While I understand mongoloids need to have a space to talk, I'd appreciate you go back to the adult foster home that you're from so they can check on you.

While everything you said is true, it's still a l2p issue.