Thank You for Gen 3 Legendaries

[Elricht Kaltwind.8796]

That works, because as someone who finds the "uniqueness" of the previous generation legendaries utterly garish and silly, I'm excited that there's an entire set coming that looks nice and aesthetically cohesive. The last thing I would want is another legendary that shoots unicorns or something. Way too much stuff like that in this game already.

[Goettel.4389]

A strange reason to express thanks, but I'm sure the devs and artists appreciate it. Carry on ; - )

[Curunen.8729]

On 8/3/2021 at 1:42 AM, Linken.6345 said:

My question is why is it only 16 if they make budget legendary they should make underwater ones aswell.

Yeah it's weird not to have underwater legendaries be included in this set.

 

I'm curious if there may be new underwater ones but DSD themed rather than aurene themed so not talked about by Anet to avoid spoilers. Complete speculation on my part, but hoping for something to compete with the gen 1 set.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Curunen.8729

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

9 hours ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

I don't find this argument very convincing.  MHW is not the same type of game... Action RPGs do things differently than the rest of the fantasy RPG genre.  But also, many?  Can you name three more?

Regardless, the whole idea of "legendary" gear in FRPGs is that its origin is from a legend--a hero of renown who used it, probably after obtaining it by some magical or otherwise special means, and by being a legend made that gear part of the legend.  Excalibur or Mjolnir are the obvious well-known examples.  So sure, you can have a legendary set, but that's typically going to be one or two weapons, maybe a shield, and maybe a couple pieces of armor.  I've never heard of any hero in history (or legend) ever regularly using all of a long bow, a short bow, a pistol, a long sword, a great sword, a dagger, a mace, an axe, a focus, a staff, etc. etc. Making a large set of themed weapons like this pretty much goes against the whole concept of legendary, and calling it legendary is just nonsense.

It doesn't... it really doesn't. You're only following a modicum of Legendary tropes across an entire videogame genre. MHW is as much a Fantasy RPG as Guild Wars 2 is, just cuz it's more Action oriented, it doesn't make it any less of a Fantasy game. Even FFXIV alone follows a set of Legendary Weapons: Relic Weapons are the equivalent to Legendary Weapons in FFXIV and they have four, count that, FOUR SETS of Legendary weapons. 

 

Again, just because a weapon isn't an individual piece, it doesn't make it any less Legendary. Another game I can easily use is Phantasy Star Online 2 with their 15* Set weapons such as the Atlas, Trailblazer, Rivalate and Lightweaver series. Another is Elsword, where the Raid Weapons such as the Perkisas weapons or Void Type weapons are Set weapons considered to have their own unique legends/lore but are still a set of equipment. Another is TERA which I believe currently has the Kaia Mythic Weapon sets as their best/Legendary weapon based on Kaia, protector of Kaiator and Goddess of War

 

I can keep looking but that would take me deep diving every single RPG I've played and I don't want to list down too many games just to prove that your point is moot in that a Legendary Weapon has to be a single entity based on a single weapon type and can't be a set. 

[Cipisek.2147]

On 8/1/2021 at 6:08 PM, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Well, it is stated 'Sets', and not 'Set'. 

I'm guessing that's not a typo. 

That could very well just mean the precursor and the actual legendaries, so 2 sets.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Even FFXIV alone follows a set of Legendary Weapons: Relic Weapons are the equivalent to Legendary Weapons in FFXIV and they have four, count that, FOUR SETS of Legendary weapons.

Notice, how in reality FF XIV relic sets, while being sets, are still unique weapons, and in that are being more like gen1 legendaries than gen3 ones.

 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Notice, how in reality FF XIV relic sets, while being sets, are still unique weapons, and in that are being more like gen1 legendaries than gen3 ones.

You could barely tell the difference between them unless you had to get really up close. The only ones that have ever stood out for me were Summoner books, those things had massive colour differences compared to others. 

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

You could barely tell the difference between them unless you had to get really up close. The only ones that have ever stood out for me were Summoner books, those things had massive colour differences compared to others. 

i see, so for example (taken from the ARR relic "set") all those:

 

https://i.imgur.com/5bZIMrR.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/p1HwHMx.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/5vTPxHs.jpeg

and https://i.imgur.com/RvO4ppZ.jpeg

all look the same to you.

 

 

[Cipisek.2147]

9 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Why are people hoping they are cheaper to make? THEY ARE FREAKING LEGENDARIES. 

 

Who cares about the skins? Its still a freaking legend weapon. They should still be difficult to make a single one of them. This idea is great cause now it means no matter what weapon you like using, there is a skin for you. and any new legend should follow suit and have entire weapon sets of them. 

 

The Aurene legends are AMAZING and should be incredibly hard to make just to spit the complainers. 

Lmao and then you have a huge group of people that just dont do the legendaries and quit the game because theres no long term progression to be had. Sure spite your veterans and make the Aurene legendaries hard to craft, if you think thats good for the game and the playerbase. 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

i see, so for example (taken from the ARR relic "set") all those:

 

https://i.imgur.com/5bZIMrR.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/p1HwHMx.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/5vTPxHs.jpeg

and https://i.imgur.com/RvO4ppZ.jpeg

all look the same to you.

 

 

Pretty much. The only thing that separated them (which is something that GW2 does with their Legendaries as well) is the particle effects and glows. You take those away, they'll end up in the same level as BL weapons. 

 

I won't say they don't look unique for a set, they do, but they still maintain that same set piece feel. And I'm alright with such a set being considered Legendary or Relics depending on the game.

[Astralporing.1957]

10 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Pretty much. The only thing that separated them (which is something that GW2 does with their Legendaries as well) is the particle effects and glows. You take those away, they'll end up in the same level as BL weapons. 

Sure, but that's true of pretty much all legendaries. Take away their auras, particle effects and glows and (with the very few exceptions) they become completely normal weapons. And even those exceptions would not be out of place in gemshop.

 

10 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

I won't say they don't look unique for a set, they do, but they still maintain that same set piece feel.

...really? Because, to me, they do not. They do not share any common aestethics that would make them a single set at all.

 

 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

15 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

...really? Because, to me, they do not. They do not share any common aestethics that would make them a single set at all.

I guess that's where different perspective comes in. I'm able to discern at least 4 to 5 extremely prominent aesthetic features that are present in all weapons that make them feel extremely similar to one another. The colour palette is one of the most prominent ones along with the tendency to have this really edgy approach on the ARR weapons specifically. 

 

Comparing it to the Anima weapons, which all felt like they had some Nordic influence, there's a different approach to the design between each set of the Relics. These ones had a more golden, almost blocky like feel to the Anima weapons (feels very Dwarven like) compared to the sharp aesthetics found on all the Zodiac weapons. 

 

Again, that's probably different perspectives at the end of the day, I personally have no issues with Set weapons being Legendary, others may have different opinions on that matter. End of the day though, there's no "rules" being broken about Aurene's set being Legendary, it's a matter of personal taste. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

13 hours ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

No, actually, that's simply false.  And FWIW I taught English; my knowledge of grammar is excellent.  Their usage is at best ambiguous.  In order to be absolutely clear one way or the other, they should have said either, "a set of third-generation legendaries and a set of third-generation precursors," or "sets of third-generation legendaries and sets of third-generation precursors."  But those phrases fit much less well in their little blurb.  The marketing dept. would never let that happen. 😄

However, if you watched the presentation, it was considerably clearer:  They spoke of ONE ("a") set of 16 legendary weapons, and a set of precursors, about which they didn't really elaborate other than to say they represented Aurene when she was young.  Those are your "sets"--there was not even the hint of additional sets of anything coming, ever.

Now that doesn't mean it won't happen... but it would be a considerable departure from what Anet has done in the past and there is absolutely no reason to think they intend to do that, based on what they've actually said.  It seems extremely unlikely that's the plan, and far, far more likely that this is just them de-prioritizing development of legendary weapons so they can use their limited resources on other things they think are more important to the bottom line.

From the reveal:

 

The precursors represent baby Aurene while the legendaries represent adult Aurene. Aurene is one of my favorite characters, and I'm so happy that we got to create a legendary set based on her. 

Sounds more like the Devs are treating the Aurene Legendary Weapons and Aurene Legendary Precursors as one set, here. 

[Bladezephyr.5714]

15 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Why are people hoping they are cheaper to make? THEY ARE FREAKING LEGENDARIES. 

 

Who cares about the skins? Its still a freaking legend weapon. They should still be difficult to make a single one of them. This idea is great cause now it means no matter what weapon you like using, there is a skin for you. and any new legend should follow suit and have entire weapon sets of them. 

 

The Aurene legends are AMAZING and should be incredibly hard to make just to spit the complainers. 

Why wouldn't we hope they're cheaper...  I have a job, and a life, and this is a game... I play it for fun.  I want all the fun things.  Crafting legendary weapons sure is tedious, but is not fun. Using them is though.  I also care about skins, and given the game's nickname, "Fashion Wars", I'd estimate so do a lot of players.

 

I'm glad you think the Aurene weapons are amazing.  I don't.  I don't think they're garbage but I don't like their aesthetic.  To me they look too feminine, too plastic.  That's my opinion.  It's not an insult to the designer... I don't think she did a horrible job--she just made something that I don't personally find appealing.  As such the only value it could possibly have for me is the convenience factor, but if I have to spend 8 months of my limited play time to get one (about how long it took me to craft The Shining Blade) then it's a no-brainer:  Not worth my time.

[Bladezephyr.5714]

7 hours ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

It doesn't... it really doesn't.

You're only following a modicum of Legendary tropes across an entire videogame genre.

It really does--it has to.  The more of a thing you have, the more commonplace it becomes, and therefore the less legendary it can possibly be, inherently.  And that's exactly the problem with the gen 3 weapons.  And no, I'm not "only following a modicum of Legendary tropes..." I'm following the concept of legendary weapons across the entire genre of fantasy, including in literature, and also myths and legends. 

 

Going all the way back to the legend of Perseus (where GW2 and every other game gets its concept of "aegis"--which was Perseus' shield).  He had three pieces:  Hades' helm, Hermes' winged sandals, and the polished shield from Zeus if memory serves.  These were all very different pieces, having totally different origins.

 

You gave Final Fantasy as another example, but those weapons are all quite unique.  Unfortunately as I'm not a tradesman I lack the vocabulary to describe them very well, but... The bow appears to be made from laminated wood, with very little decorative embellishments on the body itself, but with a metallic piece attached near the top that provides the golden glow.  The first staff looks to be made either from metal or unfinished wood, has grooves and ridges on the shaft, the second staff is smooth, but has more of a wrought iron decoration that wraps around it.  The claw appears to be etched iron plating covering a leather glove apparatus.   The only thing they have in common is they all have glowy bits, but those are all different colors and shapes.  I can't speak to the lore behind them, since I don't play the game, but these are all very different pieces, with the same sort of uniqueness that earlier generations of legendary weapons have (albeit with a very different art style). So I would say that actually supports my argument, not yours.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

23 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

It really does--it has to.  The more of a thing you have, the more commonplace it becomes, and therefore the less legendary it can possibly be, inherently.  And that's exactly the problem with the gen 3 weapons.  And no, I'm not "only following a modicum of Legendary tropes..." I'm following the concept of legendary weapons across the entire genre of fantasy, including in literature, and also myths and legends. 

Except again, this is literally a trope all videogames follow, not just this one. Insisting that something needs to be a single entity to be Legendary is factually wrong because MANY games have done both single AND Set Legendaries already.

23 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

Going all the way back to the legend of Perseus (where GW2 and every other game gets its concept of "aegis"--which was Perseus' shield).  He had three pieces:  Hades' helm, Hermes' winged sandals, and the polished shield from Zeus if memory serves.  These were all very different pieces, having totally different origins.

And I said previously, you're only looking at the smallest iteration of a Legendary Weapon trope, you're not looking into the immense amount of games that have followed both singularity and full set of Legendary equipment. I'm basing this off my wellspring of experience in many videogames I've played and helped develop throughout the years. I even gave you 4 Examples of said trope of Legendary Weapon sets.

23 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

You gave Final Fantasy as another example, but those weapons are all quite unique.  Unfortunately as I'm not a tradesman I lack the vocabulary to describe them very well, but... The bow appears to be made from laminated wood, with very little decorative embellishments on the body itself, but with a metallic piece attached near the top that provides the golden glow.  The first staff looks to be made either from metal or unfinished wood, has grooves and ridges on the shaft, the second staff is smooth, but has more of a wrought iron decoration that wraps around it.  The claw appears to be etched iron plating covering a leather glove apparatus.   The only thing they have in common is they all have glowy bits, but those are all different colors and shapes.  I can't speak to the lore behind them, since I don't play the game, but these are all very different pieces, with the same sort of uniqueness that earlier generations of legendary weapons have (albeit with a very different art style). So I would say that actually supports my argument, not yours.

I already answered this one on Astralporing's post. All Relic weapons in FFXIV follow a particular theme based on the Relic set in which they belong. The Zodiac weapons, as I clearly stated, followed a more edged based thematic weaponry around them. Each weapon utilizes a form of metal that has been forged in a way that has been formed to be bladed, this includes the bow showcased, which used a metallic piece on the side of the bow that has an edged form, which it shares with the staff along with the Spear and Knuckles/Claws. Their colour scheme follows a darkened and muted colour, complimented by a distinct glow, respective of the weapon being used. Each weapon also demonstrates an interwoven stylistic with certain parts of the metals used, such as the weaving metal inside of the blades on the Staff, or the weaving shape of the Spear, along with the weaved designed of the metallic structures supporting the bow. The claws are designed slightly different in that each bladed article forms a waved pattern in order to compensate for its claw design. Even the Zodiac Sword, which has the handle and guard demonstrate the interwoven yet bladed metalwork, showcases the same thematic approach as the previewed weapons, same thing goes for the Shield, and even the Summoner book, which has metalwork all over it, follows the exact same theme as these weapons. And again, their colours are far more muted and darkened in order to provide a better contrast to the glow effect that each weapon provides depending on the Weapon type. 

 

I'll leave it here because I don't want to go through the nitty gritty details of Weapon Design, but as I said previously, end of the day people have different takes on what their preferences are, but just because you feel like something isn't Legendary from your own personal taste, doesn't factually mean it isn't. Again, individual Legendary Weapon design is only one approach to such a thing, it is not the penultimate rule. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[Bladezephyr.5714]

3 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Except again, this is literally a trope all videogames follow, not just this one. Insisting that something needs to be a single entity to be Legendary is factually wrong because MANY games have done both single AND Set Legendaries already.

I already agreed with you that it could be a set... but it needs to be a set that makes thematic sense in the context of the legend from which it has become legendary.  And while I don't think you've actually given any examples that back up your argument, even if it's true, just because a game calls their pretty weapons legendary, doesn't mean that name makes any sense.  If the weapons don't have the property of being actually legendary, then it just become a meaningless name.  It's just marketing.  However, until gen 3, Guild Wars 2 legendary weapons DO have the property of being actually legendary.  So by making this set and calling it legendary, Anet has diminished the meaning of that in their game, and diminished their game in so doing.

 

These new weapons can't possibly be legendary, because they're brand new weapons, that do not come from a legend.  Aurene herself does not wield them, nor have you ever wielded them, nor has anyone else in the game's lore ever wielded them.  They didn't exist. So in the literal meaning of the word, they can not possibly be legendary.  I don't know what the lore will look like but in order to make it have an actual legend they will have to essentially retcon the game.  Not so with the earlier legendary weapons.  For instance, Quip:

 

Quote

The most renowned thief in Kryta had a couple calling cards—drove the Lionguard mad. She always left two things behind: a trail of confetti and a note that read "I can run faster than a centaur!"

 

That's legendary.  Calling the Aurene weapons legendary is nonsense.

 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

3 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

I already agreed with you that it could be a set... but it needs to be a set that makes thematic sense in the context of the legend from which it has become legendary.  And while I don't think you've actually given any examples that back up your argument, even if it's true, just because a game calls their pretty weapons legendary, doesn't mean that name makes any sense.  If the weapons don't have the property of being actually legendary, then it just become a meaningless name.  It's just marketing.  However, until gen 3, Guild Wars 2 legendary weapons DO have the property of being actually legendary.  So by making this set and calling it legendary, Anet has diminished the meaning of that in their game, and diminished their game in so doing.

Well now I can accept this part because this is your own personal take instead of forcing a personal opinion as if it were fact. That I can respect, if you don't feel they are Legendary for yourself, that's completely understandable

7 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

These new weapons can't possibly be legendary, because they're brand new weapons, that do not come from a legend.  Aurene herself does not wield them, nor have you ever wielded them, nor has anyone else in the game's lore ever wielded them.  They didn't exist. So in the literal meaning of the word, they can not possibly be legendary.  I don't know what the lore will look like but in order to make it have an actual legend they will have to essentially retcon the game.  Not so with the earlier legendary weapons.

 

I can't say I fully agree with this statement since I know of yet another game that did the exact same approach where a weapon became Legendary despite being recent which is Devil May Cry 5. Dante's new sword is literally titled "New Legendary Devil Sword: Devil Sword Dante", and that sword became Legendary in the historic 2 minutes it was on the screen, according to the game's lore. 

 

Although I will agree that because of how recent the Aurene weapons have been forged, it does feel silly that they would be considered "Legendary" in that extent, but hey I don't make the rules of the concept, I just see how people utilize them. 

[Sobx.1758]

19 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

Calling the Aurene weapons legendary is nonsense.

No, it's not. Ascended-level stats with free stat change, swapping upgrade components for free, legendary tier visuals, uses legendary armory for easy account-wide sharing. Trying to pretend it's not legendary because you dislike the visuals is what's pure nonsense here.

If you don't like it, get over yourself and make another one. Easy.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Bladezephyr.5714]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, it's not. Ascended-level stats with free stat change, swapping upgrade components for free, legendary tier visuals, uses legendary armory for easy account-wide sharing.

If you want to define it that way, strictly in terms of how game mechanics apply to legendary weapons... but gen 1&2 legendaries are about more than just game mechanics, and that's not what anyone is talking about in this thread.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

If you want to define it that way, strictly in terms of how game mechanics apply to legendary weapons...

There's no other way to define legendary gear. Anything else is your personal reasoning made up for whatever purpose that has nothing to do with what actual legendary gear is in this game.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I don't know....a bard (no particular one) is legendary?

Charisma is legendary?

Skritt or unicorns are legendary?  Mythical, maybe, but legendary?

Krait are legendary?

Baby quaggan?

Etc., etc. 

[Bladezephyr.5714]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

There's no other way to define legendary gear. Anything else is your personal reasoning made up for whatever purpose that has nothing to do with what actual legendary gear is in this game.

Of course there is, that's completely ridiculous.  The word "legendary" has existed for hundreds of years, and has been applied to weapons of legend for as long; and it never had anything to do with GW2 game mechanics.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

Of course there is, that's completely ridiculous.  The word "legendary" has existed for hundreds of years, and has been applied to weapons of legend for as long; and it never had anything to do with GW2 game mechanics.

Nobody is discussing the origin of the word "legendary", it's very obviously in relation to what "legendary gear" is in this game. What are you even trying to do here now, lmao 🙃 

[Bladezephyr.5714]

9 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nobody is discussing the origin of the word "legendary", it's very obviously in relation to what "legendary gear" is in this game. What are you even trying to do here now, lmao 🙃 

Yeah actually, I have been, since the beginning of the thread.  And a bunch of people agreed with me, either via comments or reactions.  Where do you think FRPG games get their concept of legendary weapons?  FROM LEGENDS WITH LEGENDARY WEAPONS.  I gave 3 examples in this thread.  It's precisely that lack of "legendary-ness" (conformity to the concept of legendary) that I've been talking about since the first post.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Bladezephyr.5714