Captain Kuro.8937 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 7 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said: Ironically your post describes exactly the reason why ow-sets are a good thing. It's reusing the same assets that are already there (OW content) to get legendary items. Yes , they can use the Raid one to the Open World . And use another Set , to incentivize Raid participation And loop again after 2-3 years 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Gehenna.3625 said: Ironically your post describes exactly the reason why ow-sets are a good thing. It's reusing the same assets that are already there (OW content) to get legendary items. theyre not against an owset, they want to add the envoy set in ow with a transmutation penalty for not doing the pvp,wvw,envoy set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinagal.9235 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 1 minute ago, yann.1946 said: Why do you think they would have done that? It's out of matter because they haven't changed gen 1 to account bound on acquire and you still can get access to it's QoL features without need to try any specific game mode. Be it different it could be an argument, but currently only legendary accessories locked behind OW (someone claimed you can get most of OW specific stuff through reward tracks, but i don't know about it), and i think it should be solved at some point. I have no problem with other modes have their own legendary accessories, i'm sure it won't affect OW popularity in any significant way and even if it do, then the problem with the mode and not with rewards/players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kuro.8937 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, yann.1946 said: "Giving" the envoy skin would just generate outrage though. From whom exactly ? Thousands of people ? The end result will be 400-500 whines at Reddit and then a Kotaku Blog and then the Posts demanding Legendary will seize . Some quit posts here ad there and after 11 months they will come back , because they enjoy the animations . When they come back and see no new Raids/Strike they will make a saying that : "the company should have listned to it's community" And myself 30 years from now , in the Park with my cane i will remember why i should have tried harder Edited August 27, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 1 minute ago, xenon.3264 said: basic game design which si not working for raids i guess it actually worked wonders for a while, thats the original participation was so high. The problem is that actual problems with raids did not get adressed and a general population dip hits raids first. 1 minute ago, xenon.3264 said: not this is exactly the poimt. and you keep on missing it. people like the reward but to get it if they do not like the mode do the less effort possible. You are completely ignoring all the people who stay in gamemodes after getting the rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said: I wish anet gives an option to craft a legendary armor a generic one but not tied to any open world PvE achievements or events or npcs or wvw or pvp or raids.. provided there shd be no unique skin or collection involved and no lore involved (like the weapons we craft in mystic forge with mystic coins eg: courage) with just material sink.. so ppl who hate raids and would like to enjoy the QOL of legendary gear would get it... in the meanwhile if ppl who are willing to put that extra effort in raids to get the cool looking skin legy armor can do raids... and also ppl who already got raid armors might not feel like its a redundant waste of mat sink and bothersome legy journey to pursue just for a skin and lore reasons... its a win win for everyone... items to forge a legy armor piece: mystic tribute gift of maguuma mastery or desert mastery gift of living world currencies(eg: 250 of each lws currency) Ascended armor piece Note: anet can make adjustments based on how much mats shd be involved in each items ... like gift of maguma mastery could be an overkill or less.. they can adjust so dont get your feathers ruffled that i mentioned that item 2 in the list for an armor piece I never thought id see you agree to that xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said: It's out of matter because they haven't changed gen 1 to account bound on acquire and you still can get access to it's QoL features without need to try any specific game mode. Be it different it could be an argument, but currently only legendary accessories locked behind OW (someone claimed you can get most of OW specific stuff through reward tracks, but i don't know about it), and i think it should be solved at some point. I have no problem with other modes have their own legendary accessories, i'm sure it won't affect OW popularity in any significant way and even if it do, then the problem with the mode and not with rewards/players. it does matter, because its a relevant design question. Why do you think they purposly went to a more restrictive acquistion method for later legendaries. Even when no general accessible counterpart exists for a big part of them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said: I never thought id see you agree to that xD I never said I won't... I just want the raid mode to stay alive... at present, raid mode has only one aspect that differentiate itself from others thats the skin... taking that aspect away might hurt the mode severely Edited August 27, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenon.3264 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said: Thousands of people ? dozens 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said: From whom exactly ? Thousands of people ? The end result will be 400-500 whines at Reddit and then the Posts demanding Legendary will seize Just now, xenon.3264 said: dozens You do realize these precedents are dangerous. Also just because a group is in the minority does not mean you can just walk over them. Or is it that you only care about bad gamedesign when it affects you directly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinagal.9235 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 1 minute ago, yann.1946 said: it does matter, because its a relevant design question. Why do you think they purposly went to a more restrictive acquistion method for later legendaries. Even when no general accessible counterpart exists for a big part of them It doesn't matter because gen 2 didn't solve any problem you assume Anet had with gen 1 weapons. Gen 2 weapons are more prestigious because they're harder to get, but it only applies to skin part of the legendary, not the QoL features. It means this change only really affected players for whom unique skins are a crucial part of legendary. And skins are out of my concern, i personally would be fine with OW LA has the same skin like crafted ascended armor have, i don't even care about legendary status, could i get the same QoL features without having legendary status i would be fine with that, and all of this for the same cost as actual legendary armor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 10 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said: I never said I won't... I just want the raid mode to stay alive... at present, raid mode has only one aspect that differentiate itself from others thats the skin... taking that aspect away might hurt the mode severely you also still have the social and gameplay aspect. imo the only thing raids needed to be kept was a guildfinder in game. Such that people could find more likeminded people easier. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenon.3264 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, yann.1946 said: ou do realize these precedents are dangerous. Also just because a group is in the minority does not mean you can just walk over them. Or is it that you only care about bad gamedesign when it affects you directly? really ? like we are oppressing minorities in real life ? lol ok when gw2 was released there were no raids. ppl came here from wow since there were no raids. i know for sure since me and many others i used to play with in wow did for this exact reason. a vocal minority screamed they needed to add raids in gw2 and none wanted it. none but them and guess what ? none cared . but them yes some joined them in 9 years but most people did not care cause this is was not what they were here for. we are not oppressing rhem temoving raids. not considering raid a priority it's just a game which is not aimed to them . there are other games raid aimed they can play. it's clear this is not a game for raiders. at the same time if the should add raid to be needed for everyday play i would leave and search for a game aimed to my personal tastes oh no i fell oppressed. Edited August 27, 2021 by xenon.3264 temoving raids. / not considering raid a priority 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Just now, Rinagal.9235 said: It doesn't matter because gen 2 didn't solve any problem you assume Anet had with gen 1 weapons. Gen 2 weapons are more prestigious because they're harder to get, but it only applies to skin part of the legendary, not the QoL features. It means this change only really affected players for whom unique skins are a crucial part of legendary. And skins are out of my concern, i personally would be fine with OW LA has the same skin like crafted ascended armor have, i don't even care about legendary status, could i get the same QoL features without having legendary status i would be fine with that, and all of this for the same cost as actual legendary armor. It matters because they kept the same trend with the other leg items, not just weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Just now, xenon.3264 said: really ? like we are oppressing minorities in real life ? lol ok when gw2 was released there were no raids. ppl came here from wow since there were no raids. i know for sure since me and many others i used to play with in wow did for this exact reason. a vocal minority screamed they needed to add raids in gw2 and none wanted it. none but them and guess what ? none cared . but them yes some joined them in 9 years but most people did not care cause this is was not what they were here for. we are not oppressing rhem temoving raids. it's just a game which is not aimed to them . there are other games raid aimed they can play. it's clear this is not a game for raiders. at the same time if the should add raid to be needed for everyday play i would leave and search for a game aimed to my personal tastes oh no i fell oppressed. dungeons where advertised as "for raiders". im sorry to burst youre bubble. The game always intended to have difficult content. If the name is what matters, then fine i guess. i just care about a healthy game, which is why im in favor of strike cms btw. This will also be my last response to you, theirs nothing in this conversation for me, your just jaded by previous experiences, and its pretty sad you cant let go of those. gl in your future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, yann.1946 said: you also still have the social and gameplay aspect. imo the only thing raids needed to be kept was a guildfinder in game. Such that people could find more likeminded people easier. 🙂 reality: ppl talk and interact only in low kp groups and training groups... high kp groups are either dead silent in chat or few ppl find ways to spread some toxic nonsense in squad chat to boost their ego further guild runs could be fun if we did it on discord... else only few ppl interact... fun exciting runs and experience are hard to come by these days idk.. ppl got transformed in some way.. like they experienced a lot of bad toxic ppl and they dont want to get involved in anything... imo, the only important aspect in raid mode is the attractive armor skin that gets new players to try the mode... I'd also expect few more cutscenes in raids extra cutscenes for cm modes in raids... few wings have some interesting movie like cutscenes... i love them.. but the other wings dont have any.... w1, w2, w3 dont have any cutscenes w5 cutscene is not much of a cutscene also i wish there are some unique minigames in w3 stronghold of the faithful explorable area (the one with docks and lake after we defeat the keep contruct) like the minigame with livia... the bloodstone sigil minigame... and we can complete those minigames weekly to get some rewards ... Edited August 27, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenon.3264 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, yann.1946 said: dungeons where advertised as "for raiders". im sorry to burst youre bubble. The game always intended to have difficult content. If the name is what matters, then fine i guess. i just care about a healthy game, which is why im in favor of strike cms btw. This will also be my last response to you, theirs nothing in this conversation for me, your just jaded by previous experiences, and its pretty sad you cant let go of those. gl in your future. difficutl content does not mean raid. none of your answers added nothing to the whole thead anyway everyone is ansering you contraddicting your post and you keep on ignoring their answer and repeating the same stuff. Edited August 27, 2021 by xenon.3264 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said: reality: ppl talk and interact only in low kp groups and training groups... high kp groups are either dead silent in chat or few ppl find ways to spread some toxic nonsense in squad chat to boost their ego further guild runs could be fun if we did it on discord... else only few ppl interact... fun exciting runs and experience are hard to come by these days idk.. ppl got transformed in some way.. like they experienced a lot of bad toxic ppl and they dont want to get involved in anything... imo, the only important aspect in raid mode is the attractive armor skin that gets new players to try the mode... I'd also expect few more cutscenes in raids extra cutscenes for cm modes in raids... few wings have some interesting movie like cutscenes... i love them.. but the other wings dont have any.... w1, w2, w3 dont have any cutscenes You dont think that more easier guildcreating would lead to more raid runs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, yann.1946 said: You dont think that more easier guildcreating would lead to more raid runs? taking myself as an example, I joined crossroads discord , rti discord, and pug trainings to get raids exposure.... joining guilds attract me in few ways... "tenebrous crystal" and "shimmering crystal" and scribe 500 leveling... and weekly guild missions.... other than that, idk why i shd join a guild idk... the motivation stems from the content and rewards... social aspects of the game an be experienced in lobbies and guilds but the gamemodes doesnt attract ppl for their social aspect atleast i didnt feel any social aspecct in raids except teamwork.. but once ppl know what theyre supposed to do, social aspect gets diminished there as well... best social aspect in gw2 can be experienced in divinity reach dwayna's plaza near the banks ministry way point i think.... other than that, idk... i mean guilds can enable a new player to get exposure and give confidence to get into raids , pvp, wvw.. but ppl might not see guilds as end goal ... its a tool not an attractive aspect I do spend some time in guild chat to clarify doubts regarding builds, traits, skills and idle chatter but i couldnt relate gamemodes and guilds and social aspect altogether Edited August 27, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinagal.9235 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, yann.1946 said: It matters because they kept the same trend with the other leg items, not just weapons. Trends may change, not neccessarily in a form you or i expect though. New legendary amulet might mean we'll see less of mode slot-type exclussive legendaries in future for example. So even if ABoA will remain a thing (and i welcome it), it doesn't mean it will serve as a tool to push players into specific modes, but to just show what mode player plays. I assume we'll see new legendary items in EOD aside from weapons, and only uncovered slot is breather. So either Anet will add same slot-type legendaries to the modes already have it, or wider diversity of ways to get them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said: taking myself as an example, I joined crossroads discord , rti discord, and pug trainings to get raids exposure.... joining guilds attract me in few ways... "tenebrous crystal" and "shimmering crystal" and scribe 500 leveling... and weekly guild missions.... other than that, idk why i shd join a guild idk... the motivation stems from the content and rewards... social aspects of the game an be experienced in lobbies and guilds but the gamemodes doesnt attract ppl for their social aspect atleast i didnt feel any social aspecct in raids except teamwork.. but once ppl know what theyre supposed to do, social aspect gets diminished there as well... best social aspect in gw2 can be experienced in divinity reach dwayna's plaza near the banks ministry way point i think.... other than that, idk... My experience is the exact opposite, most of my raid runs through guild where extremely sociable, which makes everything way more fun. 🙂 I'm still keeping friends from these runs even among them that have completely quit gw. 7 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said: i mean guilds can enable a new player to get exposure and give confidence to get into raids , pvp, wvw.. but ppl might not see guilds as end goal ... its a tool not an attractive aspect Isnt that the point? using guilds as more of a way to get the right people together. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinagal.9235 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, xenon.3264 said: difficutl content does not mean raid Can't agree more, i wish WoW all the bad for creating this false paradigm many players and MMOs sticked with. I blame GW2's raids specifically and other instanced content in general for giving Anet an excuse to not bother creating challenging OW content. Though EoD npc having different behavior based on rank gives me a slight hope that things may change and it's a first step. Edited August 27, 2021 by Rinagal.9235 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, yann.1946 said: My experience is the exact opposite, most of my raid runs through guild where extremely sociable, which makes everything way more fun. 🙂 I'm still keeping friends from these runs even among them that have completely quit gw. Isnt that the point? using guilds as more of a way to get the right people together. 🙂 u're attracted to social aspect of the game... u'd do anything taht gives u happiness in terms of social pleasure and mingling with ppl... ure not tied to any specific game modes or anything for those specifc game mode content or specific game mode rewards or profit.... my dilemma is... how would anet sustain a gamemode or attract playerbase to a game mode? will guilds attract a playerbase to a gamemode? if u are aware of few ppl's post in the forums.. like @Dante.1763and astral poring and @Vayne.8563, you'd know that those guys would never touch the raid game mode even if 9 other players in that instanced content are their friends and they are on discord and they have good rainy breezy drizzly weather and 10 bowls of iceccreams and fries and chips and snacks with them while doing that game mode... guilds would never convince them to do those gamemodes in the least few ppl begrudgingly do the content either for the awesome skin, the QoL the legy armor provides or they hate other ways of aquiring the armors more than this specific gamemode Edited August 27, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said: Trends may change, not neccessarily in a form you or i expect though. New legendary amulet might mean we'll see less of mode slot-type exclussive legendaries in future for example. possibly, although every single amulet is still mode locked. (which was what my general point was, mode locking has some advantages and is not inherently a bad thing.) 2 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said: So even if ABoA will remain a thing (and i welcome it), it doesn't mean it will serve as a tool to push players into specific modes, but to just show what mode player plays. ABoA? 2 minutes ago, Rinagal.9235 said: I assume we'll see new legendary items in EOD aside from weapons, and only uncovered slot is breather. So either Anet will add same slot-type legendaries to the modes already have it, or wider diversity of ways to get them. Yes, the way the game is set up nessecitates more diverse acquisition methods eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinagal.9235 Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, yann.1946 said: ABoA Account Bound on Acquire 3 minutes ago, yann.1946 said: possibly, although every single amulet is still mode locked. (which was what my general point was, mode locking has some advantages and is not inherently a bad thing.) Not anymore, many players already working on their OW legendary amulet. There's still good chance it will require something from other mods, but i doubt it'll more than something to "try" mode. Edited August 27, 2021 by Rinagal.9235 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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