Casual player needs help with solo open world Guardian Build ! — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Casual player needs help with solo open world Guardian Build !

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for an easy to play build for my guardian. Allow me to explain.

A lot of people seems to say that PVE is easy in this game and, when I was playing a reaper with a lot of pets, I used to agree with them. I could pretty easily face roll through the entire story, enjoying the narrative. However, now that I'm playing a guardian, life is not so easy anymore, I have the feeling to have much less sustain than my reaper.

I've tried the 3 solo build from metabattle (I've unlocked the 2 elite specs), I'v tried some builds from youtube (including the one from WoodenPotatoes) and I still have the feeling to die a lot more than my reaper. I'v the impression that all these builds are made for people who actually know how to play this class very well and who are pretty skilled.

Me, on the other hand, I'm not a really skilled player, I do step out of the red areas when I see them and I try to block some attacks when my CDs allow me to do so, but I miss a lot of active defenses.

Hence, could someone give me a build for a gardian (FB, core or DH) whith a good sustain in order to play solo the pve content ?

Bonus question : From my reading on this forum, my understanding is that anet did some big nerf on the guardian on march, do this nerf make last year builds obsolete ?

Thank you for reading and hope to read some advice :-)

Comments

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020

    @Eliostros.7865 said:
    I've tried the 3 solo build from metabattle (I've unlocked the 2 elite specs), I'v tried some builds from youtube (including the one from WoodenPotatoes) and I still have the feeling to die a lot more than my reaper.

    Then (a) you are not playing the builds right, and (b) you need to train your movement to avoid AoE damage. Guardian is the easiest profession for super high damage and survivability as well as mobility.

    So, you won't find the solution to your problem in a different build. Learn to play this one right, for instance:
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Radiant_Greatsword

    • Use Shield of Courage and Shield of Wrath when it makes sense.
    • Use Litany of Wrath in combination with Whirling Wrath or Zealot's Defense for super fast healing. (Save Wings of Resolve for emergency situations or when you see that your group needs some healing.)
    • Replace Stand Your Ground with Sword of Justice for great extra damage when stability isn't required (which it rarely is in solo-play).

    It's my favorite Guardian build for solo/story/open world and even strike missions (unless they need a healer, then I switch to Firebrand). Its sustain is fantastic, and it's definitely not obsolete.

  • Irensaga.6935Irensaga.6935 Member ✭✭✭

    You've already looked at the resources I would have recommended.

    Can you give a more detailed example of a typical fighting encounter where you are struggling?

  • @Irensaga.6935 For example, I died multiple times when I had to

    Protect Aurene when she hatch

    @Ashantara.8731 The thing I don't understand is that guradian is supposed to be " the easiest profession for super high damage and survivability", however I never struggled this much with my Reaper, it was really easy to play.

    I know I don't play very well that's why I was looking for a guardian build as easy to play as the "minion master". In the meantime I'll look again at the build you recommend :-)

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Some classes have it much easier in open world pve. Reaper has the highest base health pool, bonus health from shroud, and minions to take hits for you. Guardian on the other hand has the lowest base health, and relies on cc, positioning, blocks, and aegis to survive. Both reaper and guardian can be very tanky, but they have different playstyles.

    Surviving can largely depend on your gear, and a lot of the metabattle builds suggest using full berserker or viper gear. If you have mastered the class then you dont really need any defensive stats, but while you are still learning you will likely want a fair bit of toughness and/or vitality. For learning power guardian, I would at the very least go full marauder gear, and maybe some valkyrie, soldier, or knights gear too. For condition damage guardians, carrion, rabid, and maybe dire are good starting stats.

    Traits also can add a lot of survivability to your build. The honor and valor traitlines have some great defensive choices, giving you extra healing, more vitality, aegis and protection etc. In particular, altruistic healing from valor can give you a ton of extra healing when playing group content like meta events, and honor can give you 300 extra vitality, and has several passive healing options.

    Some tips for playing guardian: You have a lot of very strong utility skills, try to get used to swapping them around often, depending on what you are fighting. As a core guard with the radiance traitline, you can reuse your f1 (without interrupting your attacks) every time you get a kill, which will repeatedly blind all enemies around you. As a dragonhunter, your greatest strength is burst damage, so try to maximize the number of enemies your traps hit. There are a number of ways you can safely set up burst combos, such as using f3 or focus 5 to block attacks while you lay traps, or by pulling enemies into them with f1 or greatsword. As firebrand, a lot of your defense comes from your f2 and f3 tomes, so its important to become familiar with their abilities and figure out when they are useful. You generally dont want to spend too much time using your defensive tomes, but getting out 1 or 2 quick defensive skills can keep you from dying.

  • TL;DR there is no "faceroll" build for guardian, I have to learn how to play it properly in order to enjoy it :-(

    I guess I'll use your valuable advice to make my own build (with black jack and hookers) based on the builds I found on the internet. On the bright side, I already have a full marauder armor and weapon set, no need to farm it :-)

    Thank you for your time and advice :-)

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2020

    The meta-builds are not the perfect choice to start with a new class. They are designed for optimized damage-output, neglecting defenses and survival abilities. The meta-concept of survival is: Your opponent dies before you do. That works out, IF you know your class and understand the mechanics. If you are new to the class or even the game, the meta-builds will always lead to a long series of painful deaths and defeats.

    The major differences between Guardian and Minion Master Necromancers are the very low basic HP pool, the lack of a Reaper form (2nd HP pool) and the lack of Minions which tank and fight for you. The traditional/old way of learning a class is to use a customized build for the beginning and slowly adjust the settings towards the meta. Every build constructs on the knowledge and experience gained from the previous. Depending on the skill and motivation of a player, this can take 3-5 steps to reach meta-difficulty.

    I guess you already own the gear for the meta-build (Berzerker's or Marauder's)? In that case, stick to that. In the spoiler below is a build that can be used for early steps and learning the first basics about the class. It is obviously NOT META. I used it as a start to teach the different aspects of the class.

    CORE GUARDIAN - Meditation & Shout

    GEAR
    If you already own Marauder's, keep that. The Superior Rune of the Traveler is rather cheap and offers a couple of nice additions. For Sigils, we use Superior Sigil of Accuracy and Superior Sigil of Severance, which may cause a raising eye-brow even on some veteran players.

    What can we learn in this build?

    a.) Litany of Wrath. How it works and how to use it.

    Litany of Wrath is THE GUARDIAN HEAL in Guildwars 2. It appears in almost every build, because it is so insanely powerful. If used correctly, it can completely restore your entire HP pool. But the mechanics behind it are quite counter-intuitive compared to the other Heals in Guildwars 2. A normal Heal restores HP after you press the button. Litany of Wrath does that too, but only restores very little HP. Important are the few seconds after the cast. In that narrow time-window you have to deal massive damage to your opponent(s). The more damage you deal, the more HP will be restored.

    The trait-configuration in this build turn Litany of Wrath into an almost normal Heal. The skill is drastically empowered and restores ~ 6,000 HP instantly. In addition the damage to health conversion is still active. This means you can slowly learn to use it, without fearing to die if you mess up. In addition it will cast an AoE attack and cleanse conditions from you.

    This is mostly a question of training and practice.

    b.) Symbols. How they work and how they are used to enhance your damage drastically.
    and
    c.) The proper use of Greatsword & Scepter, which are both popular in almost every meta-build.

    GREATSWORD

    Leap of Faith is a gap-closer skill. That means it allows you to get into melee range, if your opponent is too far away to hit. It is a perfect combat-starter. If you ever played ToR, it works as good as the Jedi/BH/Sith leap.

    Symbol of Wrath is a local Symbol which harms your opponents when they stand inside. It casts Retaliation on you and triggers the Symbolic Avenger effect, which increases your outgoing damage when the symbol hits an opponent. The goal is to use this skill always BEFORE you unleash your powerful attacks, to make sure the damage-increase from Symbolic Avenger is already active.

    Talking about massive damage, Whirling Wrath should be used for this. You can use it in normal situations as well, but it works best the more damage-increasing effects you have. You are free to move while it is casting, which allows you to hit multiple enemies even easier.

    The auto-attack is an attack-chain, three attacks in a row. The final hit is the most powerful hit which also grants you a stack of Might. So you have two very good reasons to never interrupt you auto-attack-chain. If you want to use skills, time them well enough to start right at the end of such a chain.

    SCEPTER & SHIELD

    Orb of Wrath is not slow moving, the range is nice and thanks to the trait it easily stacks up Might. Always a good option for ranged-combat.

    Symbol of Punishment works with ground-targeting, so it can be placed in range or melee. It also triggers the Symbolic Avenger. When you use it in melee, it will cast additional Might. It deals a good amount of damage and should be used whenever it is ready.

    Shield of Judgment deals rather low damage. It can be used to purchase some time if weapon-swap is still on cooldown and the enemy is about to get closer. The protection reduces incoming damage, while the aegis works as a block.

    SPECIAL

    In this build, Litany of Wrath will also cast a Symbol of Protection which also deals damage and triggers Symbolic Avenger. So you will use this mechanic a lot, when you heal and attack. This helps getting used to it.

    d.) The use of crowd-control in combination with damage output.

    One of the most important aspects of the game, sadly often neglected by players. Crowd Control in general means to control the movement of your opponent. You can interrupt, stun, daze, knock-back, knock-down, launch, pull and even freeze them. Crowd Control skills differ from each other by the visuals and intensity. When you fight against an opponent with a blue break-bar below its HP bar, you can see how great the impact of your CC skill is.

    For boss-fights it is important to save the high-damage-output for the short time-window when the break-bar gets crushed. Because the opponent will become vulnerable, your attacks deal a lot more damage than usual.

    So in order to train that behavior correctly, we use the above mentioned weird Superior Sigil of Severance. It belongs to the family of ON INTERRUPT sigils, so it triggers with all kinds of CC skills. On the other hand it grants + 250 Precision and + 250 Ferocity for 4 seconds.

    That is a lot. You want to use that bonus as often as possible to increase your damage-output. The meta usually recommends a Superior Sigil of Impact for that, but the effect is barely noticeable if you are new to the class. The effect of the Superior Sigil of Severance is more visible and can be even recognized in the stats-window. In my opinion that helps a lot getting a feeling and understanding for the importance of this mechanic.

    SKILLS

    Binding Blade and Pull is your CC skill-combination on Greatsword. You can use it on multiple enemies within range and pull them into melee range. A good skill-chain can be to 1. pull your enemies then 2. cast the Symbol of Wrath and then unleash the Whirling Wrath.

    Chains of Light is a ranged CC skill that roots your target in possition. It can be used in melee range as well. When used in range, it can be combined with Symbol of Punishment or you swap to Greatsword and use the Leap of Faith.

    Shield of Absorption can knock your enemies back. In addition you can interrupt it early to heal yourself and allies nearby. It can be used in both offense and defense.

    e.) First steps in boon-management.

    An experienced Guardian has to keep an eye on different factors during the fight. It starts with their own HP pool, the maintenance of a healthy critical-hit-rate, keeping the CC skills ready to use, using the damage-output skills in the best situations AND maintaining a couple of extremely useful boons. Those are Might, Quickness and Fury.

    This build starts small with just Fury. The other boons also exist here, but they are more or less maintained automatically. Fury uptime is the first thing you can control on your own, depending on your personal decisions when you use what skills. This step is rather important in player-development, as it allows you to see the bigger picture behind actions of other players. Not everything they do appears rational to us on the first view. But when you do your own boon-management, you understand a lot of the weird behaviors.

    Fury is granted by Litany of Wrath, Smite Condition, Judge's Intervention and "Feel My Wrath!". You can chain these skills behind one another, but keep in mind that some should be reserved for special situations. This will lead to your first personal rotation, which helps understanding the rotations later in the game.

    UTILITY & ELITE

    Litany of Wrath, Smite Condition and Judge's Intervention belong to the same skill-family, Meditations. In this build, meditations are empowered. They heal for more than 2,000 HP and cast Fury on yourself and allies. So they can be used for buffing and healing as well. Again, this build has a higher focus on learning mechanics and keeping you alive. Use these little helpers.

    Smite Condition casts an AoE attack around you and cleanses conditions. It should be used as a condition-cleanser, but can also be used to increase area-damage or healing.

    Judge's Intervention is another gap-closer skill with 1,200 range. It has a stun-break mechanic, so you can use it when your opponent knocked you out/down/back to quickly return to the battle.

    "Retreat!" mostly serves as a Swiftness source and to refresh Aegis to block attacks. You can use it completely for blocking, as the Runes increase your passive movement-speed by 25 % anyway. It also cleanses 1 condition on yourself and your allies. If you feel overpowered by your opponents CC skills, you are free to swap it for "Stand Your Ground!" which also works as a stun-breaker and grants Stability that makes you invulnerable for most CC attacks. Depends on the situation.

    "Feel My Wrath!" works as a buff-skill. You gain Quickness and Fury. Should be casted during the fight whenever it is ready, especially right before damage-bursts.

    VIRTUES

    Virtue of Justice should remain untouched. You only use the passive-effect, which helps you stacking up Might during the fight.

    Virtue of Resolve can be used as an emergency-heal or condition-cleanse, if all other skills are on cooldown. The passive is not really powerful, but helps recovering HP between fights.

    Virtue of Courage can be used to block attacks, by refreshing the Aegis boon instantly. Use it when you are out of endurance to dodge an attack.

    Note: This is a starter-build I used to train new players. It works OK, but obviously lacks damage-output. Again we used to adjust the build slowly progressing towards meta-difficulty. The next build usually replaced Shield with Focus and Honor with the Dragonhunter. After that, the gear is adjusted back to full Berzerker's. If the player survives easily, Valor gets replaced by Radiance. Upon starting group-content, Runes & Sigils can be replaced for the meta suggestions. Mostly because staying alive and maintaining buffs will be the job of other players. That path takes a while, time a lot of newbies nowadays no longer have or want to invest. So a lot of them just watches videos, reads guides and fights golems until they improve. To each their own.

    In addition, credo quod ArcDPS interdictum debere.
  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    I can enjoy the guardian is some areas, but I have found nothing that compares to the survivability of a minion master.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2020

    @Eliostros.7865 said:
    @Ashantara.8731 The thing I don't understand is that guradian is supposed to be " the easiest profession for super high damage and survivability", however I never struggled this much with my Reaper, it was really easy to play.

    That is because Reaper doesn't require any professional mechanics knowledge (i.e., how skills are being used in a specific order etc). For instance, Whirling Wrath and Zealot's Defense do much higher damage when used in combination with Symbol of Wrath. It probably takes practice, because you are switching weapon sets a lot more often than on a Reaper.

    I told you the mechanics, and if you use them correctly, you will see how easy it is.

    I know I don't play very well that's why I was looking for a guardian build as easy to play as the "minion master".

    There is none, if you consider learning skill combinations and switching weapon sets and using certain skills at the right time difficult.

  • @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Thank you for your amazing post :-)

    This is really interesting, do you have any guide to learn to play the way you describe it in your post ?

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2020

    I wrote the stuff in the spoiler detailed and hopefully easy to understand. There are a lot of examples and explanations, most of the stuff is linked. Guide in terms of video/webpage with pictures for this thing does not exist. I do not want to go that far with any of my builds, as certain parts of our community call them inferior. If you want to learn more about using the Guardian, I recommend you to visit the Guardian profession forum. The people there have tons of experience and knowledge to share.

    There also is the guide of @Ojimaru.8970 which is quite useful. The videos you find on youtube, which refer to the meta-builds for DH and Core Guardian mostly utilize Greatsword, Scepter and Focus and will also show you how they can be used in an efficient way (= rotations) and the proper use of the other skills.

    In addition, credo quod ArcDPS interdictum debere.
  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2020

    @Eliostros.7865 said:
    A lot of people seems to say that PVE is easy in this game and, when I was playing a reaper with a lot of pets, I used to agree with them. I could pretty easily face roll through the entire story, enjoying the narrative. However, now that I'm playing a guardian, life is not so easy anymore, I have the feeling to have much less sustain than my reaper.

    As said already here, necro is so "stupidly" tanky by its nature, that no class can match it. However, when you are used to play necro, you may have difficult times to adapt to other classes, which get their survivability with more complex ways. I know how hard this adaptation can be. I have trashed Warrior once, because I couldn't stay alive, but when I rolled Warrior after playing some other classes, I was surprised how tanky it is. I have the same story with Guardian. I rolled one after being disappointed to Warrior, I was first pleased, then I couldn't stay alive and I forgot the class - until just recently, I found the class again and I was surprised how survivable it is :D The only thing that has changed in between those events is me.

    EDIT: Forgot to write the conclusion: the more you play different classes, the more you start to figure out how classes do damage and how they survive, and it greatly helps. Classes you initially thought to be too fragile and too complex, suddenly have became interesting and capable once you return to them after playing something else in between.

    I've tried the 3 solo build from metabattle (I've unlocked the 2 elite specs)...

    I once tailored PvP & WvW roaming builds for solo PvE purposes. Those builds are generally well-rounded, and you can just tune down condi cleanses, CC and mobility for solo PvE purposes.

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    The meta-builds are not the perfect choice to start with a new class. They are designed for optimized damage-output, neglecting defenses and survival abilities.

    I /cheer'd when metabattle opened "Open World PvE" section, but I later found out that those builds are optimized builds, mainly tailored from fractal & raid builds, generally adding boon generation to cover the lack of the team. They are surely great in the hands of experienced players - ones who know the class and the content - but you might have hard time to learn the class with them, because they are not necessarily that forgiving builds.

    So, once again, I could suggest to look PvP & small scale WvW builds, and try to tailor them to solo PvE.

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    I guess you already own the gear for the meta-build (Berzerker's or Marauder's)? In that case, stick to that. In the spoiler below is a build that can be used for early steps and learning the first basics about the class. It is obviously NOT META. I used it as a start to teach the different aspects of the class.

    Thanks for great basic build and its description!

    Note: This is a starter-build I used to train new players.

    I think it resembles very much older core Guardian PvP bunker builds, but can't remember them too well. Honor and Valor are the defensive trait lines, and I remember seeing them in various combinations in close all Guardian bunker builds - core, Dragonhunter and Firebrand - during the years. For example "Symbolbrand" still has Honor + Valor variant in meta: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Firebrand_-_Symbolbrand

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2020

    @Eliostros.7865 said:
    Hence, could someone give me a build for a gardian (FB, core or DH) whith a good sustain in order to play solo the pve content ?

    Here is a budget condi Firebrand build I made for a friend of mine:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABc+x3lRwgYIsK2IO8KZPfA-zRQUb0z4gLkEqgMDhQSAHmFfPrA-e

    Feel free to not use expensive Sigils like Malice (7-9 gold) or Energy (3 gold). Mix and match Carrion and Rabid gear to personal preference, I went with a tad more vitality.

    The goal here was:

    • all exotic gear
    • as much condition damage/duration as possible with budget items
    • vitality and toughness to supplement personal survival
    • the food/utility items used provide permanent healing which on top of aegis from the personal mantra (and healing) should sustain you through pretty much everything

    Things to note:

    • Runes of Balthazar are highly recommended. The condition/burning duration they provide enhances significantly the damage of burning
    • the build has 90/100% burning duration without food, which was intended, see above
    • The sword+focus offhand set is used for both mobility (sword 2 is a teleport to target) as well as additional survival (Focus 5 blocks the next 3 attacks).
    • The energy Sigil on the offset is intended as additional dodge when having to go more defensive, which is when you'd be switching to that set
    • Total cost for this setup is around 30 gold (without the Malice and Energy Sigils) since most Carrion and Rabid items are quite cheap on the trading post.
    • All the items here can be purchased via the trading post, besides the back piece.
    • Renewed Focus works both as a 3 second immunity, as well as a full reset for all 3 tomes, which can be used both for defensive purposes with Tome 2 and 3, as well as more condition damage with Tome 1
  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2020

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    The meta-builds are not the perfect choice to start with a new class. They are designed for optimized damage-output, neglecting defenses and survival abilities.

    That statement is so untrue, by the way. Most open world PvE builds make defense and survivability a priority besides damage. You just don't see it, because you don't know yet how to play those builds. It's all a matter of being willing to adept and learn.

    Edit: Here is my adjusted version of the "Radiant Greatsword" Dragonhunter build I posted earlier (so I can safely use it in Strike Missions and Fractals etc without having to worry):

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWxAEx3lVUxmaaIhMnyWZjO0L/tcA-zRZYBR9tH6QICiBdVItFo1mCVUVqdRECBPj9wXZ4A-e

  • This is a build I was using when Guardian was my main. Has more health and some toughness, which I liked:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/83393/wandering-guardian-core-ow

    Guardian still requires active defense, though, so I was not quite satisfied. Since then I've found Trailblazer/Viper Scourge and then Trailblazer/Apothecary Druid more to my liking.

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    The meta-builds are not the perfect choice to start with a new class. They are designed for optimized damage-output, neglecting defenses and survival abilities.

    That statement is so untrue, by the way.

    The statement s/he says is absolutely true. Read carefully what you quoted and what you answered.

    Most open world PvE builds make defense and survivability a priority besides damage. You just don't see it, because you don't know yet how to play those builds. It's all a matter of being willing to adept and learn.

    This just holds true, iff you are already familiar with content and classes. Just take a look to META open world PvE builds, and compare them with PvP/WvW builds. What is the difference? The difference is that for smaller scale PvP, you need sort of rounded build, because you can not decide what you are going to meet. META open world PvE builds at very first assume you know what you are doing - their defenses are created based on that, that is why they are META after all - Most Efficient Tactics Available.

    Note that I don't say meta builds are bad. They are not. Note that @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 didn't say meta builds are bad. In fact I think both of us agree, that they are well designed and tested builds that everyone should strive for. What I am saying is that players who are new with a class, need suboptimal builds that can not solo all the hardest content, but which give them enough easily understandable, preferably passive sustain to learn to play the class. Like I said, the build that @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 presented is very close to older "medisym" guard bunker builds familiar from PvP side. You combine the empowered symbols (Honor) with empowered mediations (Valor) together, and complete the build with chosen offensive line.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2020

    @TamX.1870 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    The meta-builds are not the perfect choice to start with a new class. They are designed for optimized damage-output, neglecting defenses and survival abilities.

    That statement is so untrue, by the way.

    The statement s/he says is absolutely true. Read carefully what you quoted and what you answered.

    I did the first time around, and I stand by my statement. There are plenty of open world solo builds on MetaBattle and other resources that sacrifice damage for protection or suggest how to modify them with different gear, skills or traits in order to make them tankier.

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2020

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I did the first time around, and I stand by my statement. There are plenty of open world solo builds on MetaBattle and other resources that sacrifice damage for protection or suggest how to modify them with different gear, skills or traits in order to make them tankier.

    I understand that, but to understand what I am saying, just go to peek the guard builds in metabattle: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Guardian

    When you examine those, you very soon notice, that META open world PvE builds revolve around Zeal and Radiation, just like guard fractal and raid builds, but many if not all PvP/WvW builds revolve around Honor and Valor(*), either alone or both combined at least in the variations. Why is that? Why Zeal and Radiation builds that dominate raids and fractals are present in all suggested open world builds, while PvP and WvW builds revolve around Honor and Valor, admittedly combining those many times with Zeal or Radiation, and just giving Honor + Valor as an alternative build for more sustain?

    (*) ATM, if I didn't make a mistake, at Guard metabattle PvP & WvW side there is just one build that does not have either Honor nor Valor, and it is core guard build for larger scale fights, and because of the subject we are discussing here, we are not that interested in group builds, I think?

    Before you have time to answer, I answer to myself: Because at PvE side you can choose what you fight against, and PvE side is always the same. It does not change, the mobs never learn anything, it is mechanical circus to run through, but to be success, it needs that you know how this circus works. PvP side is different, you have not much choice - at least on guard - to choose who you are fighting against. Of course, even META small scale PvP builds are sort of comphromises, many builds have their own hard counters, but luckily that hard counter usually means that the opponent is at the same skill level as you are. If you know better how the opponent class & build works than what s/he knows about you, you have a good chances to win your build's hard counters.

    EDIT: I mean, metabattle open world builds derived from fractal and raid builds certainly add more defenses compared to their "parents", but they still assume you know what you are doing and what you are facing. Small scale PvP builds do not have that privilege, and thus they usually suit better for new players, because as with PvP, they have no idea what they are facing, even if it is PvE side. It is of course true, that even small scale PvP builds assume you are familiar with your class and all the other classes you can face, but still they are generally more rounded than fractal and raid builds even with some added defenses and necessary boon/condi self-generation.

    So, in general, the build presented in this thread is IMO very good starting point to anyone new to guard class, or anyone new to entire game who has rolled a guard.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2020

    @TamX.1870 said:
    When you examine those, you very soon notice, that META open world PvE builds revolve around Zeal and Radiation, just like guard fractal and raid builds, but many if not all PvP/WvW builds revolve around Honor and Valor(*), either alone or both combined at least in the variations. Why is that? Why Zeal and Radiation builds that dominate raids and fractals are present in all suggested open world builds, while PvP and WvW builds revolve around Honor and Valor, admittedly combining those many times with Zeal or Radiation, and just giving Honor + Valor as an alternative build for more sustain?

    In WvW and PvP you are facing much more difficult opponents (namely players, and often more than one at a time) than you do in open world PvE, hence you don't need that much self-sustain in the latter - therefore, the comparison is silly. The comparison with Fractals and Raids is too, because you usually have people in the group who specifically fill a supporter role (Heal Firebrand is one of those roles in WvW, while the Guardian is mostly a DPS and quickness support class in Fractals).

    The sustain for Guardian in open world PvE is provided by skills like Lithany of Wrath and blocks, as I already explained earlier - that is more than enough protection and healing for soloing open world! If you added more, the damage output would decrease to a ridiculously low level.

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    The reason you're noticing the sustain difference is necro was designed around have offensive sustain + shroud to absorb damage or barrier on scourge. Unlike other classes, necro doesn't have vigor/endurance boosting traits nor does it have blocks/weapon skill evades.

    When I say offensive sustain, that comes through blinds, weakness, fear, chill, etc - debilitating your opponent. If you look at it like that, you'll also see that guardian is the opposite of this with most of its focus on defense. While you can't sit through damage like a necro, you can completely negate it through proper use of blocks/invuls - potentially negating far more damage than a necro can; this is why people (who are more capable of timing blocks etc) say that guardian is so easy.

    While this might not help you in terms of builds it might help you understand why it feels easier on necro then it does on guardian. I started this game back at release and it was a different time - my first build was soldiers armor, and a mix of Berserkers/knights trinkets and weapons. If your hearts set on being a guardian, start with a little more cushion (not too much as when damage goes down too low fights are still just as hard) until you are able to anticipate what attacks are incoming and when to block/use your defensive abilities. Condition builds (such as burn guard) can build very tanky yet still do high damage - I would recommend starting there and working your way.. piece by piece.. to being glassier and higher damage (for example full trailblazers and working towards full vipers).

  • Eliostros.7865Eliostros.7865 Member ✭✭
    edited May 1, 2020

    @TamX.1870 Thank you for your insight, it makes sense to me :-) I'll looking at small scale PvP builds in order to improve my knowledge of guardian defensive traits

    @Ashantara.8731 I think your underestimate my noob power :p
    Indeed, I do consider difficult to use the right skill at the right time since I'm having a hard time figuring out what's going on when the fight gets messy, with too much aoe or mobs, or simply when I try soloing a champion in Queensdale and find myself unable to drain it's defiance bar despite all my cc skills and end up being X-shot (where X is my number of blocking skills +1 T_T)

    @Cyninja.2954 Thank you for your build. Quick questions : 1) How do I cleanse condi ? Torch 5 does not work on me. 2) Is food mandatory to have good sustain ? I'm currently trying it and I did not engage a hard fight yet, I'm still getting my fingers used to the skills :p

    My multiple test taught me at least some things about my elite spe preferences:

    • I like neither DH virtues nor DH longbow, traps are nice but that's it.
    • I like the "burn the area" feeling of the FB as well as the axe and mantras, tomes are nice but quite difficult to use (relatively slow to open making them difficult to use in emergency cases)
    • Core guardian is nice, I do prefere FB but it's still nice

    Concerning my play style, I have no problem with low damage as long as I can win the fight without to much difficulty thanks to my tankiness. Actually I prefer this feeling over the glass canon one.

    In my mind a guardian is something of a paladin. Some sort of rock, that shines with divine magic and bash your evil face with his holy weapon to purify your filthy soul with fire, that's the feeling I would like to have. However the feeling that I have instead is that it's not the way anet intended this class ^^'

    Edit: I currently facing a fight that I struggle to win properly.
    In the story "Night of Fires" when I have to infiltratre the camp, I can't figure how to fight these mobs. I'm constantly pulled by some of them, my life is drained by the mobs with guns, even when I try to use a GS and using GS5 to group them, they flee immedialtly after I pulled them. By the time I managed to reach one, the others downed me... It's really discouraging :-(

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eliostros.7865 said:
    @Cyninja.2954 Thank you for your build. Quick questions : 1) How do I cleanse condi ? Torch 5 does not work on me. 2) Is food mandatory to have good sustain ? I'm currently trying it and I did not engage a hard fight yet, I'm still getting my fingers used to the skills :p

    There shouldn't be to many condi open world enemies. If you do face some, use your Tome 2 (Tome of Resolve) and the ability 2 and 5 in it. If you are in an area with lots of condies which require constant cleansing, you can replace one of the utility skills with Mantra of Lore for an additional cleanse mantra.

    The food is literally just a bonus on top. The build works perfectly fine without any outside healing regeneration.

    Most normal enemies will die to just basic utilities and axe/torch skills. Your Tome 1 (Tome of Justice) is your main damage and works on single as well as area targets (rotation is 4, 5, 2, 1, 2 ideally). Thanks to renewed Justice (2nd passive trait in the Radiance line) your Tome 1 will refresh if an enemy dies (only applies if you are not in the tome). So it is in your best interest to use the tome as often as possible, especially with many enemies around you.

    @Eliostros.7865 said:
    Edit: I currently facing a fight that I struggle to win properly.
    In the story "Night of Fires" when I have to infiltratre the camp, I can't figure how to fight these mobs. I'm constantly pulled by some of them, my life is drained by the mobs with guns, even when I try to use a GS and using GS5 to group them, they flee immedialtly after I pulled them. By the time I managed to reach one, the others downed me... It's really discouraging :-(

    Line of sight enemies so they can not cast or target you. That will cause the AI to come to you, and not force you to chase after them both exposing you to their attacks as well as getting more enemies involved.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eliostros.7865 said:
    @Ashantara.8731 I think your underestimate my noob power :p

    :lol: Sorry. :)

    Indeed, I do consider difficult to use the right skill at the right time since I'm having a hard time figuring out what's going on when the fight gets messy, with too much aoe or mobs, or simply when I try soloing a champion in Queensdale and find myself unable to drain it's defiance bar despite all my cc skills and end up being X-shot (where X is my number of blocking skills +1 T_T)

    I find CC'ing on a Necromancer quite difficult, because the profession doesn't have quickly accessible hard CC. Guardian has it much easier that way (IMO).

    In general, don't worry too much. I am certain you can overcome your "noob power" ;) and get used to other professions with practice. I remember having a hard time as well when I first tried core Guardian, then Dragonhunter - now it feels like a second nature to me.

  • Eliostros.7865Eliostros.7865 Member ✭✭
    edited May 1, 2020

    I've tried to make a build on my own, based on the things I learned in this thread and the builds I tried before.
    Since I struggle with the FB tomes (really too slow to draw), I've made a core guardian build.

    Here it is : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWxAEl3lVwQYeMMGJOyL/pUA-zRJUiR933hQJ6rPlQsyAFPA-e

    I could beat the "Night of Fires" story with it, however I think it can be improved event in the limits of my current skill.

    I tried to mimic some of the minions master survivability traits with the sigils.
    With Firework runes and marauder set I reach 99% crit chance with fury and retal, thus I tried to have them most of the time, which is not easy ^^'
    I've my doubt about mace, maybe I'll try the sword for extra mobility and fury, though mace 3 saved my kitten a couple of time during the story and still give me fury and retal, so...

    I also have doubts about the sigils, maybe I'll try bloodlust + perception (to compensate the lack of fury)

    Please give me your opinion about it and your suggestions :-)

  • Eliostros.7865Eliostros.7865 Member ✭✭

    Well, still dying a lot... :-(

    I'll give a try to the "CORE GUARDIAN - Meditation & Shout" build"
    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Does "Empowering Might" work on me or is it just for allies ?

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eliostros.7865 said:
    I'll give a try to the "CORE GUARDIAN - Meditation & Shout" build"

    Core Guardian is mucho inferior to Dragonhunter.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2020

    Most of the
    Grant ... to nearby allies when ...
    work for you as well. So the answer is YES. You do a critical hit, you gain that might.

    Your might-sources are

    When camping Greatsword and using the auto-attack-chain, you can maintain a healthy stack of might on the go. That is why I said boon-management is reduced to fury. Might generation works automatically in the background without the need to keep an eye on it. Starting with small steps.

    Obviously DH and FB are a lot more powerful than Core. So @Ashantara.8731 is totally correct with her statement.

    In addition, credo quod ArcDPS interdictum debere.
  • wolfyrik.2017wolfyrik.2017 Member ✭✭
    edited May 3, 2020

    You should have a look WoodenPotatoes builds Some of his open world builds refreshed my ideas and brought me back to classes I'd long since abandoned. Used to be that I couldn't stand ele, but after tinkering with his tempest build I really enjoy the class. Gave me some tips on doing better with my OW firebrand, too.

  • Eliostros.7865Eliostros.7865 Member ✭✭

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Thanks :-)

    @Ashantara.8731 I'll keep that in mind and will switch to FB or DH as soon as I feel comfortable enough with my boons management (or to the next elite if the next extension is released before I managed to learn this class ^^')

    @wolfyrik.2017 Thanks for the advice :-)
    It's the build I had when I opened this thread, it's a nice build, I like the overall feeling except for the sustain, it feels to me that mistakes are not so easily forbidden. I'm curious about how you manage your sustain.
    When I was using this build, I always had the feeling to not being able to heal myself properly. When there was multiple tanky mob that I couldn't kill quickly (hence no f1 reload) I could only see my life slowly be drained as I was using all my blocks/blind/heal skills and finally die with all my skills on CD. Any advice ?

  • wolfyrik.2017wolfyrik.2017 Member ✭✭

    @Eliostros.7865 To be honest other than usual "learn all the skills and use them" type approach the only advice I can give is don't get bogged down build. Some people's builds just won't work for the way you play. You have to experiment with the skills, figure out what would make yours better for you. Besides that, don't attach yourself to a particular profession.
    The different races and classes play so differently that it's a waste to try perfect one character. I started out with my usual rpg faves thief and ranger, ended up ditching them for something I never imagine I'd enjoy, engineer and Necromancer. Now, years later, my main is a torment Mirage (mesmer) but at the moment I've got a warrior and an Elementalist going too. My partner mains Mesmer and Necro.
    I've a character of every class, two of some and I pretty much play them all at some point. There's to much in the game to miss out on. If you're really stuck, read some class guides for ones you haven't tried or roll the dice on a new character. See as much as you can then come back to it.

  • Hi,

    I gave another try to the wooden potato's build, with some adjustments. I think I'm starting to getting a grip on it. I guess that I had to learn to not push all the buttons at once to make it work ^^

    Thanks for all your replies and advice, it helped me to getting better at this game (still a casual, but a casual who can play end game without being killed be any trash who cross his path) :-)