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Open Letter to ArenaNet regarding Server Latency

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  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The lag is so deep in the system that even cata, treb, mortar shots disappear sometimes... they're still firing... but you can't see the shots anymore...

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are broken. - Me

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    you know what skill lag is? its your lag getting lag. yeah, its that bad. calling it something else and normalizing it doesn't change how horrid it is.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • foxof.8752foxof.8752 Member ✭✭

    remove all the condi, its obvious the server cannot handle all the complicated condi calculation in a zerg.

  • Melian.5368Melian.5368 Member ✭✭✭

    Due to the lack of skill lag in PvE, I have come to the conclusion that it's not the number of players & skills going off in the instance, it is the 2 way nature of calculations done in WvW which causes bottlenecks to become overwhelmed that causes the lag. Games like eve online solve this through something called "time dilation" where they slow down the game so the servers can catch up, but it can also be done by smartly designing the code to avoid bottlenecks.

    I imagine the bottleneck in WvW battle calculation would be the damage done to player hp per tick, as this has more things that leads up to it and affecting it than anything else, like the calculation of condition durations or cordinate movement calculations etc. If this is the case, reducing the load (for example getting rid of "protection" or "vulnerability" buffs) or distributing that load would solve this issue, i.e. calculating the effects of your gear stats on map load or gear change instead of when damage occurs, thus increasing load times but reducing the necessary calculations at peak times.

    Regardless, this investigation requires man hours and is a matter of if ANet decides to invest or not, which can be decided via the pushback they receive. So we should keep reporting as these lag spikes occur, and keep the issue visible.

  • DAN.7314DAN.7314 Member ✭✭✭

    @Melian.5368 said:
    Due to the lack of skill lag in PvE, I have come to the conclusion that it's not the number of players & skills going off in the instance, it is the 2 way nature of calculations done in WvW which causes bottlenecks to become overwhelmed that causes the lag. Games like eve online solve this through something called "time dilation" where they slow down the game so the servers can catch up, but it can also be done by smartly designing the code to avoid bottlenecks.

    I imagine the bottleneck in WvW battle calculation would be the damage done to player hp per tick, as this has more things that leads up to it and affecting it than anything else, like the calculation of condition durations or cordinate movement calculations etc. If this is the case, reducing the load (for example getting rid of "protection" or "vulnerability" buffs) or distributing that load would solve this issue, i.e. calculating the effects of your gear stats on map load or gear change instead of when damage occurs, thus increasing load times but reducing the necessary calculations at peak times.

    Regardless, this investigation requires man hours and is a matter of if ANet decides to invest or not, which can be decided via the pushback they receive. So we should keep reporting as these lag spikes occur, and keep the issue visible.

    I've had skill lag in PvE before. Not nearly as often as I see it in WvW, but in some of the big open world META events (especially the ones with a lot of NPCs) like Thunderhead peaks I have experienced it fairly often.

  • I was about to post about this same issue then saw this post. I have nothing to add the OP says it all. Please fix this Anet I was having fun in wvw until lag sickness set in and now logged out because its not fun anymore.

  • Frog.8217Frog.8217 Member ✭✭

    over a month and not even a "lol, sucks to be you wvw players" from Anet.

    can you at least acknowledge the existence of this post?

  • yeah it'd be nice to have someone from Anet comment on this issue, it still hasn't gone away

  • CrimsonNeonite.1048CrimsonNeonite.1048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2020
  • Tammuz.7361Tammuz.7361 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    Please talk to us Anet. Skill lag is basically unplayable at this point.

    Hell if its a money issue, start a gofundme and ill donate, but no one can help unless you guys communicate with us.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm sure that when they reduce the map cap to lower than the target cap on siege (50) latency will disappear! ;) I'm the one running to the cannons right now...

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • CrimsonNeonite.1048CrimsonNeonite.1048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    According to their WvW stream last evening, they are looking into it, but I guess from their tone, that we're stuck with this issue for a while.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/AverageLaconicClipzBigBrother
    https://clips.twitch.tv/KindShinyBoarMau5

  • SyLaR.3628SyLaR.3628 Member ✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    @CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:
    According to their WvW stream last evening, they are looking into it, but I guess from their tone, that we're stuck with this issue for a while.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/AverageLaconicClipzBigBrother
    https://clips.twitch.tv/KindShinyBoarMau5

    So why it is not lagging on China servers, is map cap much lower there? I dont think so after looking at 3 way fight videos there.

  • Faenar.8036Faenar.8036 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    No need. I can already tell you it's technical limitations, much like when anything doesn't work.

    You have to remember that this game and its apologists always define themselves in what can't be done. If you want less laggy servers, that obviously means that you demand they build a fiber network straight to your house. If you want balance patches, that means you're a malcontent that wants daily updates. So if they do anything, you should be grateful k.

    Technical limitations you say? ROFL, completely invalid and false argument.
    The first 6 years of playing GW2 WvW were perfectly lag-free, with only very rare exceptions of insanely big 3-way massacres around SMC (probably caused because game engine is not developed to take care of 200+ ppl in one small place). Now its laggy as hell even in 20 v 20 fights.

    Before: 70 v 70 - no lags at all for 6 years
    After: 20 v 20 - laggy as hell

    Oh sure, technical limitations .... blatantly lying argument. (Or maybe trolling depreciating attempt, doesnt matter anyway)

    //edit: noticed the kappa, but Im still not sure how you meant your post :D

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yakez.7561 said:
    Only reason I play GW2 post HoT is large scale WvW. And it is basically unplayable for last several weeks.

    I'm the same way in that my main interest is WvW. I can barely use the trading post in Lion's Arch, let alone attempt WvW lately.

  • I miss the WvW days during tournaments D:

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ok...
    well....
    tonight was about the worse lag I've ever seen in 8 years of playing this game....
    people stutter stepping, skill lag, rubber banding...
    if this game can't handle big fights anymore, there's no point to wvw...
    if you keep this up till expansion time...
    shakes head, no thanks.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are broken. - Me

  • can still tell when there are two groups fighting from outside a keep. Can't see them because they're on inner, but you can tell because your frames go call stuttery. Lag radar

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭

    Their Silence is so loud.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Henrik.7560Henrik.7560 Member ✭✭✭

    Bump.
    Still laggy as ever, more guilds disband as anet continue to remain silent and provide no communication on the issue ruining the game.

    [eA] Sakura | Kaineng

  • Redponey.8352Redponey.8352 Member ✭✭✭

    @Faenar.8036 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    No need. I can already tell you it's technical limitations, much like when anything doesn't work.

    You have to remember that this game and its apologists always define themselves in what can't be done. If you want less laggy servers, that obviously means that you demand they build a fiber network straight to your house. If you want balance patches, that means you're a malcontent that wants daily updates. So if they do anything, you should be grateful k.

    Technical limitations you say? ROFL, completely invalid and false argument.
    The first 6 years of playing GW2 WvW were perfectly lag-free, with only very rare exceptions of insanely big 3-way massacres around SMC (probably caused because game engine is not developed to take care of 200+ ppl in one small place). Now its laggy as hell even in 20 v 20 fights.

    Before: 70 v 70 - no lags at all for 6 years
    After: 20 v 20 - laggy as hell

    Oh sure, technical limitations .... blatantly lying argument. (Or maybe trolling depreciating attempt, doesnt matter anyway)

    //edit: noticed the kappa, but Im still not sure how you meant your post :D

    totally agree with you.
    My PoV is that condi spamming with Hot and PoF has been dramasticly increase. this increase imply more calculation from server's CPU than direct DPS => increase server lag. if you got both Condi/DPS/boon and healing spamming then everything will lag LUL

    the WvW structure code has not been design to handle that much spamming from boon, healing and condi/dps spamming.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2020

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Ok...
    well....
    tonight was about the worse lag I've ever seen in 8 years of playing this game....
    people stutter stepping, skill lag, rubber banding...
    if this game can't handle big fights anymore, there's no point to wvw...
    if you keep this up till expansion time...
    shakes head, no thanks.

    The prolem is could be diminuishedif ANet stoped making classes that lead to overperformance with stack n spam.

    Scourge bomb with quickness spam out of a stealth will desync and lag enemy since their clients data will get f* up on larger fights,

    Scourge and firebrands are very awfull designed for what the game can handle... this 2 classes shoud be temporary removed lol, until better options/rework were found.

    Game cant handle aoe spam... ANet keep enforcing it.

    Sugestions:

    -Perma alacrity is also something very very very strong cause it will affect what i talked above, my sugestiuon to this is give alacrity ONLY to chronos, and make the boost to alacrity hapens just once in a while.
    -Remove Quickness from FB's.
    -Scourges, class spam capabilities and barrier is a bit idiotic, cut their range or make the class sacrifice health like in Gw1.

  • magnusthorek.8027magnusthorek.8027 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2020

    Just don't forget the problem is with SERVER LATENCY, not Server Latency IN WVW/PVP. PvE is VERY unplayable as well, even while soloing story instances. As I write this I'm trying my last resort reinstalling the entire game because I simply can't do anything in good sync, from skills firing 5s later after used to being unable to mount in the air...

    I can't say my real ping because game's info is a liar. It shows me 180-200ms but I could swear it's way more than that.

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭

    @magnusthorek.8027 said:
    Just don't forget the problem is with SERVER LATENCY, not Server Latency IN WVW/PVP. PvE is VERY unplayable as well, even while soloing story instances. As I write this I'm trying my last resort reinstalling the entire game because I simply can't do anything in good sync, from skills firing 5s later after used to being unable to mount in the air...

    I can't say my real ping because game's info is a liar. It shows me 180-200ms but I could swear it's way more than that.

    That sounds like a local problem. I'm doing metas in SW, HoT and personal story with a new character. I hang out in populated places as well as empty ones and usually in PvE unless there are massive numbers of players on a limited area in a map, I don't experience lag. Neither skill lag, nor network lag.
    In WvW the problem regularly occurs, usually when two big zergs are nearby; three way fights between big groups are basically always problematic. Sometimes (depending on zerg composition, tactical decisions and regarding actions) even 2-way fights are problematic.

    If you can't address the problem as it currently is .... why don't we at least to solve the problem by:

    • lowering the number of players per map to two-thirds of currently allowed players per map
    • cloning desert and alpine map once more to compensate, thus offering: EB, 2x desert, 3x alpine, thus offering 1/3rd more maps than currently.

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • Redponey.8352Redponey.8352 Member ✭✭✭

    @nthmetal.9652 said:

    @magnusthorek.8027 said:
    Just don't forget the problem is with SERVER LATENCY, not Server Latency IN WVW/PVP. PvE is VERY unplayable as well, even while soloing story instances. As I write this I'm trying my last resort reinstalling the entire game because I simply can't do anything in good sync, from skills firing 5s later after used to being unable to mount in the air...

    I can't say my real ping because game's info is a liar. It shows me 180-200ms but I could swear it's way more than that.

    That sounds like a local problem. I'm doing metas in SW, HoT and personal story with a new character. I hang out in populated places as well as empty ones and usually in PvE unless there are massive numbers of players on a limited area in a map, I don't experience lag. Neither skill lag, nor network lag.
    In WvW the problem regularly occurs, usually when two big zergs are nearby; three way fights between big groups are basically always problematic. Sometimes (depending on zerg composition, tactical decisions and regarding actions) even 2-way fights are problematic.

    If you can't address the problem as it currently is .... why don't we at least to solve the problem by:

    • lowering the number of players per map to two-thirds of currently allowed players per map
    • cloning desert and alpine map once more to compensate, thus offering: EB, 2x desert, 3x alpine, thus offering 1/3rd more maps than currently.

    With what you said, i think you're a casual WvW(im not insulting) or you started WvW very recently.

    Because splitting pple across maps by adding more maps will create only PvE and less pvp interaction.
    Moreover actually there is half of serves which are linked together and most of them during daytime there is not that many fights (not as before) so splitting pple and create more maps is one of the worst idea.
    As start pple comes in WvW for the core gameplay fight and fun with community not for caping tower and getting pips/loots.
    Your idea is just creating maps like the new one they add in PvE with LS.

    As i said i think the issue is that Server cannot handle that ammount of calculation request from spamming boon/heal/dmg (condi and direct) because before we got much more player in WvW and it doesnt lag that much as now.

    Fix bad gameplay design less spamming boon, heal and damage (condi/direct) will help a lot.

  • Senqu.8054Senqu.8054 Member ✭✭✭

    @Redponey.8352 said:

    @Faenar.8036 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    No need. I can already tell you it's technical limitations, much like when anything doesn't work.

    You have to remember that this game and its apologists always define themselves in what can't be done. If you want less laggy servers, that obviously means that you demand they build a fiber network straight to your house. If you want balance patches, that means you're a malcontent that wants daily updates. So if they do anything, you should be grateful k.

    Technical limitations you say? ROFL, completely invalid and false argument.
    The first 6 years of playing GW2 WvW were perfectly lag-free, with only very rare exceptions of insanely big 3-way massacres around SMC (probably caused because game engine is not developed to take care of 200+ ppl in one small place). Now its laggy as hell even in 20 v 20 fights.

    Before: 70 v 70 - no lags at all for 6 years
    After: 20 v 20 - laggy as hell

    Oh sure, technical limitations .... blatantly lying argument. (Or maybe trolling depreciating attempt, doesnt matter anyway)

    //edit: noticed the kappa, but Im still not sure how you meant your post :D

    totally agree with you.
    My PoV is that condi spamming with Hot and PoF has been dramasticly increase. this increase imply more calculation from server's CPU than direct DPS => increase server lag. if you got both Condi/DPS/boon and healing spamming then everything will lag LUL

    the WvW structure code has not been design to handle that much spamming from boon, healing and condi/dps spamming.

    Not to forget the big Condi balance patch where they even increased the amount of condis you can vomit + the time how long they last. Extremely counterproductive who would have thought that.

  • Redponey.8352Redponey.8352 Member ✭✭✭

    @Senqu.8054 said:

    @Redponey.8352 said:

    @Faenar.8036 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    No need. I can already tell you it's technical limitations, much like when anything doesn't work.

    You have to remember that this game and its apologists always define themselves in what can't be done. If you want less laggy servers, that obviously means that you demand they build a fiber network straight to your house. If you want balance patches, that means you're a malcontent that wants daily updates. So if they do anything, you should be grateful k.

    Technical limitations you say? ROFL, completely invalid and false argument.
    The first 6 years of playing GW2 WvW were perfectly lag-free, with only very rare exceptions of insanely big 3-way massacres around SMC (probably caused because game engine is not developed to take care of 200+ ppl in one small place). Now its laggy as hell even in 20 v 20 fights.

    Before: 70 v 70 - no lags at all for 6 years
    After: 20 v 20 - laggy as hell

    Oh sure, technical limitations .... blatantly lying argument. (Or maybe trolling depreciating attempt, doesnt matter anyway)

    //edit: noticed the kappa, but Im still not sure how you meant your post :D

    totally agree with you.
    My PoV is that condi spamming with Hot and PoF has been dramasticly increase. this increase imply more calculation from server's CPU than direct DPS => increase server lag. if you got both Condi/DPS/boon and healing spamming then everything will lag LUL

    the WvW structure code has not been design to handle that much spamming from boon, healing and condi/dps spamming.

    Not to forget the big Condi balance patch where they even increased the amount of condis you can vomit + the time how long they last. Extremely counterproductive who would have thought that.

    they totally broke their game and it still hasnt a real GvG system. (even Guild hall now arent very used ). Sad story for an MMO that has one of the best gameplay design (so smooth compared to many others mmo).

    It is unacceptable that they bury their heads in the sand and pretend that all is well.

  • michelada.2947michelada.2947 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2020

    Last time i tried wvw was unplayable, none of my skills was working left the map in 10 mins .

  • The part that truly boggles my mind about this is the fact that the player base is more than willing to work with the devs to help meet the needs. I've never seen such an occurrence in top budget games. The community just wants transparency about what is happening so we can know if we can help. If it's an amazon server issue, then great we can all rally behind that and start working together to get their attention. Money issue? There's been multiple good ideas for solving that. Heck there's even been ideas on fixing the coding of the game to minimize wear on the servers.

    The fact is that there's many passionate players who have invested great time, effort, and money into this game mode that are fully willing to work alongside the devs to make a positive change that could benefit more than just this game mode. That's a golden egg right there. Like I've said before, I have never seen that kind of community support to make a fix happen in a triple A title like CoD for example.

  • Tonight there were only two groups fighting at the same time, I actually saw several of my skills go off on my bar. But I was frozen. Then time sped back up and I was dead and none of my skills went off. It's like the bad version of continuum split.

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2020

    @Redponey.8352 said:
    With what you said, i think you're a casual WvW(im not insulting) or you started WvW very recently.

    Neither of the two is the case.

    Because splitting pple across maps by adding more maps will create only PvE and less pvp interaction.
    Moreover actually there is half of serves which are linked together and most of them during daytime there is not that many fights (not as before) so splitting pple and create more maps is one of the worst idea.

    Aha. So going for a solution, which leads to groups of a size, where the AoEs, condis and boons cause the server to lag out is a BETTER solution than actually creating an environment, in which you can actually fight? Just the fight won't be 50+ vs 50+ vs 50+ but maybe only 40 vs 40 vs 40 or 30 vs 30. In those situations my experiences with group fights have been quite good.
    Whereas the 50+ fights always end up with one or both sides going 1-1-1-1 all the time, because nothing else works. Clearly THAT is a great experience for everyone and no one here is crying because of that.

    Well, I don't have to understand your reasoning. I do agree that my suggestion is not idea, it's an emergency fix for an emergency situation.

    Fix bad gameplay design less spamming boon, heal and damage (condi/direct) will help a lot.

    Yes, but this change will also mean facing an overall design change. Designers will have to come up with alternative mechanics to keep things interesting - otherwise you'd just end up with variations of 1-1-1-1 all the time, which is also not very interesting.
    This design change would also have to be implemented across all game modes, thus possibly making it necessary to rebalance all PvE content. And that with a player base complaining about the cost in general and utterly opposed to the idea of a game going subscription base. I don't see how such an effort can be realistically financed.

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • Anyone notice more glitching due to bags from down players? I've noticed sometimes getting warped off the edge of things when I receive a bag because it pushes my character a couple of units over when I get a bag. Super annoying when combined with lag too because you can't quite tell if it was the lag and you didn't quite move correctly or if it was a bag that booped you off the edge of something you were standing on.