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Thoughts on Balance Patch

SlitheSlivier.1908SlitheSlivier.1908 Member ✭✭✭
edited December 1, 2020 in Professions

What I like:
Normally I don't like nerfs at all, but the nerfs to damage of the Guardian skills were a good thing, many of which were barely touched or missed during the Feb 25 patch.
Guardians, with heavy armor, great group support, and good healing/defenses were doing more damage At Range than squishy classes like ele in WvW group fights, which was not good. I am a bit surprised they also didn't hit Procession of Blades as well, but since that is a trap, I think it should/would have only gotten a minor nerf. I'm happy to see they didn't reduce any group-support ability of guardians, nor melee-ranged skills.
Revenant is the same thing except i'm surprised in the reduced CD of CoR. I'm glad to see the reduced damage in only a couple skills. Many Herald builds that are working great will still work great, but again a Revenant with higher health and strong armor will do less Ranged damage than before, bringing them more balanced with low health/light armor classes.
The necro nerf to the wells was a surprise for me, though I totally understand them (as someone who mains a necro) and think they are probably a good thing, to get more inline with the rest of the Feb25 changes, much like the Guard and Rev changes. It is light armor, but high (very high w/ shroud) health. Really I think necro overall is in a great spot balance-wise, and if anything maybe will see just a 5% nerf to Soul Spiral in WvW only, but I realllllly don't think that is all that necessary.
Not surprised to see nothing for mesmers since they got their self-shattering back, which I hate, but they love. I think the self shatter should do slightly less damage, but otherwise mesmers are great for many roles in the game.
Engineer nerf to Freeze and Poison Grenades are probably good simply because it brings them more inline with the Feb25th patch ideals. I don't know too much about engi but I'm glad their support skills were not touched at all; keep them relevant!
Warrior - I don't know too much about Warriors or how to play them honestly but the change to Winds of Disenchantment could be really interesting. I think it's a good thing...? It's also cool to see that now all warhorn skills, untraited, in PvE. I don't know how it worked previously in pvp and wvw though.

What I don't like:
Guardian: I still feel procession of blades should have gotten a slight nerf, but i'm okay with it as it is now, and it's definitely good to not touch too many skills at once. Maybe it is more necessary that I think it is for guards; I just know it does proportionately huge dps in wvw compared to most other skills, across many classes. I don't have a strong dislike for this.
Thief:
Yes I main a thief as well, but it doesn't sway me from my thoughts on these changes (for instance, I actually don't even use shortbow). If anything, thief skills need to decrease initiative (for only a couple skills), and none need increases. Increasing it on infiltrator's arrow, esp by 2, is obsurd. If you are using it, you are also burning all your skills as it is, giving up attack/defense for mobility. now it's useless since you can't even use it multiple times, limiting its mobility and deleting Thief from pvp. Signet of Agility should not have been nerfed because that extra endurance is absolutely necessary to make some builds work; this is hurting builds that already were kitten and required taking it. These changes are just decreasing build diversity further from what had already been nerfed to them, which is a huge problem for thief. I also want to see rifle buffed in PvP to become somewhat viable there; the only reason it works reasonably well in wvw roaming is due to the extra food and 3sec reveal instead of 4. If either of those change, it will be dead there as well, so something in PvP needs to change to make it useable there.
Warrior: I liked Winds of Disenchant better how it was before, but I get how this is more inline with the Warrior theme. I do seriously question the huge CD reduction though.
Rev: I think All for One should keep its PvP 3sec Protection. 2sec has always seemed kind of pointless to me.
Ele: I would have liked to see a slight dps increase to a few Ele staff skills, such as Staff Air 1 (auto-attack) and Staff Fire 3 and Staff Earth 5. Potentially very small buffs to sword as well, but i'm not so sure on that yet. The Decrease in number of targets for shout skills in WvW is a blow. Scrappers and FB are way better team support, healing, etc, with Tempest behind them. Now they are way behind. If this is the meta for support than FB and Scrapper need to be revisited, but really I think Tempest support should be buffed and have their target numbers buffed back up. I've never played tempest, but having only 2 really good support builds kind of sucks. Tempest should actually be a little better at it due to having low health and light armor.
PvP: Removed Celestial Amulet!? I don't use it but still I feel like you are decreasing build diversity by doing that.

Overall I like them except what they did to Thief...and I don't even use SB. The nerfs to the over-performing ranged damage skills of Guardians and Revs will make other builds/classes more viable/meta/wanted/loved in WvW such as potentially staff ele and dps engi and mayyybe Staff thief, and others I'm forgetting.

Comments

  • Anna.7845Anna.7845 Member ✭✭✭

    These are my thoughts:

    • ele: nothing aside from tempest aura share nerf, i guess support ele took a big hit, not familiar with the spec.

    -engi: the only nerf I kinda liked was to EE. irrelevant core engi nerfs, holo untouched. I’d rather have them not touch engi damage and nerf holosmiths mobility or sustain instead. The meta is already quite tanky.

    -thief: my mesmer is happy >:) though I understand that thief mains may not be.

    -necro: wvw, i don’t go there

    -guard: wvw

    -rev: core rev nerfs bad, renegade nerfs i dunno, the sustain was kinda over the top.

    -war: never played this class, can’t speak for it.

    A lot of things that actually needed nerfs not nerfed. Mirage still has one dodge. Chrono is still bad aside from oneshot memes. 300cd traits are still in the game.

    Some classes/builds still have very high sustain.

    Also celestial amulet removed. Instead of removing amulets adjust OP builds ?????????????

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here's mine: Ho hum.

  • Zee.1294Zee.1294 Member ✭✭

    Well... why i em not supersize ......After... what?...half a year.....we got some number changes that could of been done in like 2 days work....i mean sorry ANet.... end i em not even disappointed ......seriously ... what happen to you Anet?......You used to care?.....You think bringing some Xpack end some shiny outfits will save your game?.... Oh well..If you dont care then why we should care? Why we should spend money in a game that have no future?.... Whit 2021 approaching end 5 new MMOs coming let see how many empty maps you will get at the end of next year......Just remember ....If you dont deliver,you will be replaced !...Live go on....Have a nice day!

  • Good changes overall, plasma nerf finally came after 8 years. Sadly thief SA traitline hasnt got touched yet again wich means they are still unkillable, just remove a dodge from daredevil since they dont need 3 dodges when they still have so many access to stealth because of SA traitline. A daredevil can literally choose if he dies or not because of this even if they have no cooldowns left.

  • Almost 6 months to get a patch that is almost half content of previous ones, and almost nothing regarding pve. What a joke...

  • Zikory.6871Zikory.6871 Member ✭✭✭

    Like last balance patch, it's completely fine if they keep balancing the mode. 6 weeks, ok. 6 months, bad.

    [KnT] Knights of the Temple

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd say that all those change are "ok".

    • ANet want to reduce the number of skills that hit 10 players in WvW and they managed to do it pretty well. (it bled a bit in sPvP but you seldom need 10 target effect there)
    • Engineer lost a bit of damage on grenade kit as the sPvP subforum asked. (not sure it's the best way to fix the issue, but it's a way to do it)
    • Same goes for the guardian's symboles getting a cut on damage, I wouldn't say that it's the best way to adress the complains but...
    • Necromancer getting a cut of damage on 2 well isn't really a big matter. I'd even say that WoD still do to much damage for what it do.
    • Revenant's change seem to go in the right direction to tone down renegade. (not sure it's the wisest way to tone it down thought)
    • Thiefs changes are all understandable individually. I'd even say that the plasma nerf is pretty tame, it come from the mesmer, it should probably just give 3 random boons instead of the whole set.
    • Warrior's change are interesting, the healbreaker is obviously targeted. Thought, the "tankier" builds get a nice buff.
  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    My only thoughts on the Balance Patch is that this current balance team is very very very lazy when it comes to balancing.

    Not only do they not regularly balance the game, when they do, they only reduce coefficients.
    Go and pull up all the Game Update patches featuring balance changes for 2020 and yu will quickly notice that every patch is just a coefficients shift, or a resource numbers change.

    The problem is, the balance team doesn't work together with the profession design team.
    The "balance" team only changes numbers.

    The actual functionality of skills is handled by the other team, which allegedly currently is too busy with the next set of elite specializations.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2020

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I'd say that all those change are "ok".

    • ANet want to reduce the number of skills that hit 10 players in WvW and they managed to do it pretty well. (it bled a bit in sPvP but you seldom need 10 target effect there)
    • Engineer lost a bit of damage on grenade kit as the sPvP subforum asked. (not sure it's the best way to fix the issue, but it's a way to do it)
    • Same goes for the guardian's symboles getting a cut on damage, I wouldn't say that it's the best way to adress the complains but...
    • Necromancer getting a cut of damage on 2 well isn't really a big matter. I'd even say that WoD still do to much damage for what it do.
    • Revenant's change seem to go in the right direction to tone down renegade. (not sure it's the wisest way to tone it down thought)
    • Thiefs changes are all understandable individually. I'd even say that the plasma nerf is pretty tame, it come from the mesmer, it should probably just give 3 random boons instead of the whole set.
    • Warrior's change are interesting, the healbreaker is obviously targeted. Thought, the "tankier" builds get a nice buff.

    Yeah overall good changes.

    BUT

    There's still things missing.

    • Damage guard wasn't nerfed enough, it does still 1,5-2,5times the damage that other classes can do.
    • Arc divider damage seems to be overlooked as well. We had a berserker that did more damage with one skill than any necro with his whole kit, while having much more defenses.
    • Then ranger not being touched is a joke. Entangle needs a solid nerf as well as ranger longbow damage, and uptime of defensive boons without investing into boon duration
    • support ele took a huge nerf while engi wasn't touched at all, which basically makes support ele unplayable
    • engi bomb kit still does too much damage

    • then traits with 300seconds cooldown still didn't see a rework

    • some signature spells like executioner scythe from reaper should get a bit of their damage back, even though they are cc skills.
    • the emblems you get for kills and captures are still not sellable
  • @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I'd say that all those change are "ok".

    • ANet want to reduce the number of skills that hit 10 players in WvW and they managed to do it pretty well. (it bled a bit in sPvP but you seldom need 10 target effect there)
    • Engineer lost a bit of damage on grenade kit as the sPvP subforum asked. (not sure it's the best way to fix the issue, but it's a way to do it)
    • Same goes for the guardian's symboles getting a cut on damage, I wouldn't say that it's the best way to adress the complains but...
    • Necromancer getting a cut of damage on 2 well isn't really a big matter. I'd even say that WoD still do to much damage for what it do.
    • Revenant's change seem to go in the right direction to tone down renegade. (not sure it's the wisest way to tone it down thought)
    • Thiefs changes are all understandable individually. I'd even say that the plasma nerf is pretty tame, it come from the mesmer, it should probably just give 3 random boons instead of the whole set.
    • Warrior's change are interesting, the healbreaker is obviously targeted. Thought, the "tankier" builds get a nice buff.

    Yeah overall good changes.

    BUT

    There's still things missing.

    • Damage guard wasn't nerfed enough, it does still 1,5-2,5times the damage that other classes can do.
    • Arc divider damage seems to be overlooked as well. We had a berserker that did more damage with one skill than any necro with his whole kit, while having much more defenses.
    • Then ranger not being touched is a joke. Entangle needs a solid nerf as well as ranger longbow damage, and uptime of defensive boons without investing into boon duration
    • support ele took a huge nerf while engi wasn't touched at all, which basically makes support ele unplayable
    • engi bomb kit still does too much damage

    • then traits with 300seconds cooldown still didn't see a rework

    • some signature spells like executioner scythe from reaper should get a bit of their damage back, even though they are cc skills.
    • the emblems you get for kills and captures are still not sellable

    I agree with all of this.
    Also ele overall needs buffs.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SlitheSlivier.1908 said:

    I agree with all of this.
    Also ele overall needs buffs.

    Personally I find it just extremely bizarre that they nerfed Tempest as well.
    Yes, Draconic Echo 10 man support was largely dominating WvW scene for boon uptime and nerfing it would have been fine, but they could have actually took this chance to indirectly allow Tempest to shine by allowing them to keep their 10 man boon share.

    Now that is what I call a meta shift, because one has fallen out of favour, the other rises up in its place.

    But they decided to hit both at the same time, which is gonna only result in one thing : Shove in more Heralds.
    This has been trend for almost 4 years now : Nerf something's capacity to perform, people bandaid by shoving more in.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can't speak much to the WvW changes, but for PvP, they seem to be overall in the right direction.

    The Kalla Ren build needed a nerrf, as much as I hate to say. I enjoyed playing it, but it was an extremely tanky build that could do some very respectable damage along with great CC and very frequent stability. That being said, I think the nerfs probably did more than just shave this down to a more balanced level and may have killed it from the meta entirely. I've only played a few games with it in alternate amulets (Sage and Wizards), but it was pretty disappointing and I ended up swapping back to the tried and true Shiro Power Herald.

    As much as people may hate the short bow nerf to thief, I think it was a fair tuning, even though it may not seem so at first glance. There's a lot of feedback that the timing is out of place since it's been considered balanced at its previous ini cost for so long and isn't a direct change to the Shadow Arts stealth variant that's been heavy in the meta. However, the D/P Daredevil build is still pretty unparalleled for mobility an +1 assistance, even with less Inf Arrow casts. Mesmer hasn't been on par as a high mobility roamer ever since the portal nerfs and has been more of a duelists, so in the end all it really did was raise the skill cap for the thief class.

    What I wish I had seen was some nerfs to necro. By that statement I don't necessarily mean that Necro as a whole is over-performing, but more because it's such a low investment class that can perform moderately well with so many viable build alternatives that it's just entirely over-represented in PvP matches.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    My only thoughts on the Balance Patch is that this current balance team is very very very lazy when it comes to balancing.

    Not only do they not regularly balance the game, when they do, they only reduce coefficients.
    Go and pull up all the Game Update patches featuring balance changes for 2020 and yu will quickly notice that every patch is just a coefficients shift, or a resource numbers change.

    The problem is, the balance team doesn't work together with the profession design team.
    The "balance" team only changes numbers.

    The actual functionality of skills is handled by the other team, which allegedly currently is too busy with the next set of elite specializations.

    Which is a problem on a couple of levels, because sometimes the balance team make changes that go against the intent of the profession design team.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Yeah overall good changes.

    BUT

    There's still things missing.

    • Damage guard wasn't nerfed enough, it does still 1,5-2,5times the damage that other classes can do.
    • Arc divider damage seems to be overlooked as well. We had a berserker that did more damage with one skill than any necro with his whole kit, while having much more defenses.
    • Then ranger not being touched is a joke. Entangle needs a solid nerf as well as ranger longbow damage, and uptime of defensive boons without investing into boon duration
    • support ele took a huge nerf while engi wasn't touched at all, which basically makes support ele unplayable
    • engi bomb kit still does too much damage

    • then traits with 300seconds cooldown still didn't see a rework

    • some signature spells like executioner scythe from reaper should get a bit of their damage back, even though they are cc skills.
    • the emblems you get for kills and captures are still not sellable

    You can't really have expected GW2's dev to adress all this in a single patch right? Personally, I think it's better than expected already (not difficult since I expected nothing).