The Thief's Role: Discussion

There's a lot of talk about what's OP, and what's UP about the Thief and its Elite Specialisations at the moment, so I wanted to open up the floor to answer a few questions for Anet to work with, to see if the players envision Thief to be something similar or different to what they envision as developers. Below, answer the following questions:

What's the Thief's role in PvE (Fractals/Raids etc.)?What's the Thief's role in PvP?What's the Thief's role in WvW?What's the most overpowered aspect of the Thief?What's the most overpowered build for the Thief?What's the most underpowered aspect of the Thief?

While there are a lot of questions, it's necessary for Anet to be aware of what the community perceives the class to be, so I feel that the number of questions is justified. Take as many words as you need and have fun! <3

What's the Thief's role in PvE (Fractals/Raids etc.)?Not being there, according to the meta.What's the Thief's role in PvP?Decap and +1 according to the meta (but it can do much more if players would stop worshiping the meta like the crutch god it is)What's the Thief's role in WvW?Tapping, taking out stragglers, capturing camps according to the meta (and now a might bot thanks to DE)What's the most overpowered aspect of the Thief?Salt generation. This is not a joke.What's the most overpowered build for the Thief?d/p anything, because it's apparently the only thing anyone ever uses or cares about.What's the most underpowered aspect of the Thief?Build variety.

What's the Thief's role in PvE (Fractals/Raids etc.)?

The Thief's primary function should be DPS. I have no idea how well it meets that standard, but that's what it should be best at, no question. There can maybe be other roles it could do in some way, but DPS should always be the priority.

What's the Thief's role in PvP?

Also DPS. The best thing they can do is be flexible in picking enemies off. I think that the Deadeye would theoretically be capable of an off-point defensive support role, but for the most part the Thief should be picking people off and then getting out of there, rather than stand-up fights. They make enemies die faster and basically are wherever the enemy least wants them to be at any given time.

What's the Thief's role in WvW?

Don't play this, but probably similar, they should be picking off stragglers, enemies that are on the sidelines or running to/from the pitched battles.

What's the most overpowered aspect of the Thief?

Probably the ability to reset fights, Nobody runs and hides better than a Thief. Except maybe a Mesmer with enough prior planning, but that's a waste of a Mesmer.

What's the most overpowered build for the Thief?

No clue.

What's the most underpowered aspect of the Thief?

Across all specs? They can be a bit glassy if things go wrong. They have lots of evades though, so glassy usually isn't a huge problem so long as you're blast'in.

Mostly about core thief and DD, I have played DE a bit but too much frustration i went back to DD.

What's the Thief's role in PvE (Fractals/Raids etc.)?Decent and consistent DPS (hard to fail rotation, works wonder even against mobile targets) with some of the best CC in the game (Basilic Venom and Trapwire). Really easy access to AoE stealth for skipping in fractals or dungeons and mobility to trigger checkpoints/NPCs.DE was supposed to add some offensive support but I haven't tested it yet, I think it can replace war PS on dungeons/FotM because you can pack stealth + buff bot (with low to no ramp up time) in 1 slot and take an another dps (ofc if you don't need stealth war PS > DE).What's the Thief's role in PvP?Don't play it.What's the Thief's role in WvW?Solo roamer by design, works okay in <15, very limited in larger formats where apart a build you basically try to avoid the zerg and gank people in the backline.What's the most overpowered aspect of the Thief?Pvp/WvW : Flow (nearly no cast time, everything is fluid) / Adaptability (ini pool allows us to invest where we need instead of being limited by cooldowns which is strong but punish hard on decision mistake) : trying to predict a warrior is pretty easy (even more if you bothered to count/guess adrenaline), it's way harder to do that on a thief (the "saving grace" is that most thieves follow common patterns like stealing on cooldown).PvE: the ability to do high damage while dodging which allows you to keep a decent dps event under pressureWhat's the most overpowered build for the Thief?At what ? Mobility i would say d/p, Fight i would say bound staff.What's the most underpowered aspect of the Thief?Lack of meaningful/impactful utilities : most of them are either bad or ultra specific.

I would take my Time to answer, but all the funny answers are already taken.

We are Thieves, we steal.What do we steal?We steal the fun of other classes by oneshotting them.

Pve open world: play whatever you want.Pve instanced: Staff daredevil: great dmg, great survivability. Maybe sw/p could work too.WvW: play whatever you want, it's WvW, who cares about your dps.PvP: go deadeye, take Rifle and one - two shot most classes from safe distance.. Or play double pistols, if you are lazy and you only wanna spam one button. Or play condi Thief and be the best 1 vs1. Or take meta p/d. Or take sw/d. Always have SB equiped ofc. I mean you have tons of options in PvP, you are not elementalist, who is forced to only play healing/support role.There is no such a simple answer about most op thieves build: it depends on situation.

@Sifu.9745 said:Pve open world: play whatever you want.Pve instanced: Staff daredevil: great dmg, great survivability. Maybe sw/p could work too.WvW: play whatever you want, it's WvW, who cares about your dps.PvP: go deadeye, take Rifle and one - two shot most classes from safe distance.. Or play double pistols, if you are lazy and you only wanna spam one button. Or play condi Thief and be the best 1 vs1. Or take meta p/d. Or take sw/d. Always have SB equiped ofc. I mean you have tons of options in PvP, you are not elementalist, who is forced to only play healing/support role.There is no such a simple answer about most op thieves build: it depends on situation.

You...actually...suggested...deadeye...for PvP...what?!? Meta p/d? PvP?

What rank are you, if I may ask.

I only play WWW so. Role? I play it like i played dual pistol elixir engineer back at launch. Skirmishing and zerging without ever being in a party. why would I want a party anyways? I

@Asur.9178 said:

@Sifu.9745 said:Pve open world: play whatever you want.Pve instanced: Staff daredevil: great dmg, great survivability. Maybe sw/p could work too.WvW: play whatever you want, it's WvW, who cares about your dps.PvP: go deadeye, take Rifle and one - two shot most classes from safe distance.. Or play double pistols, if you are lazy and you only wanna spam one button. Or play condi Thief and be the best 1 vs1. Or take meta p/d. Or take sw/d. Always have SB equiped ofc. I mean you have tons of options in PvP, you are not elementalist, who is forced to only play healing/support role.There is no such a simple answer about most op thieves build: it depends on situation.

d/p, not p/d, sorry, my bad.Rank? I play Unranked only, just for fun.I get one shoted by Rifle deadeye a few days ago on my ele (17k health!), so i guess the dmg is pretty strong for a range weapon.

@Twyn.7320 said:There's a lot of talk about what's OP, and what's UP about the Thief and its Elite Specialisations at the moment, so I wanted to open up the floor to answer a few questions for Anet to work with, to see if the players envision Thief to be something similar or different to what they envision as developers. Below, answer the following questions:

What's the Thief's role in PvE (Fractals/Raids etc.)?DPS.What's the Thief's role in PvP?Decapping points and generally being an asshole to anything less than 50% hp.What's the Thief's role in WvW?The above with the inclusion of camps.What's the most overpowered aspect of the Thief?Thief does not have overpowered aspects, it is just annoying to encounter if alone.What's the most overpowered build for the Thief?The builds themselves are not overpowered, Thief is just annoying to encounter if alone.What's the most underpowered aspect of the Thief?Builds are shoehorned into X / Shortbow because thieves are too squishy to be able actors in the current meta (by which any equally manned skirmish including a thief), and need mobility to make up for this discrepancy. **

in WvW one of the thiefs roles is to tie up resources this specifically when using stealth. I have seen multiple people respond to a "thief at XXX camp" running around trying to locate the same. I have used this tactic myself drawing a number of enemy to a camp and then leavin g the same while stealthed.

As such I am finding SB is no longer as required when using the DE spec. The combination of hidden thief with all of that stealth can allow you to escape a multitude of enemies with them having no idea whether you left the area or not. A DE spec traiting SA is certainly not squishy when Iron sights taken coupled with CIS. I have been in groups of 4 or 5 suddenly steamrolled by 20 plus and been the only one to escape while using stealth alone.

While not necessarily a role , if traiting SA in a DE spec the thief can also do very well rezzing the downed , this more so with the added stealths and the changes to CIS. In a close fight being able to rez a downed before the stomp can shift the fight in your teams favor. This especially useful if trying to defend or flip a camp given your being in stealth will not prevent or allow a camp flip and you need an ally to attract attention. The "stealth and stalk" aspect of the thief spec in WvW is lso very useful in that you single out targets that are vulnerable in a fight that might be engaged with another, make your big hit and move to the next while your ally gets the stomp. In a pursuit role, wherein a group of enemy has decided they are losing the fight and break off, the thief is excellent at running down those fleeing enemies. Down them and leave them for slower teammates to stomp and get after the rest.

Thieves are well suited to playing mind games and ensuring the enemy is always feeling pressure. This applies to the pvp/WvW scenarios.

This means the thief should always be thinking about how to apply the most pressure. Thieves have to have high situational awareness and predict what their opponent will do.

In pvp a good thief will primarily be focused on +1 DPS. In a team fight a thief can either ensure target 1 dies or work to focus on target 2 while the team uses the confusion to secure the kill. Thief can also AoE on downs and provide counter pressure and stuns on the people trying to res.

Next is the mobility aspect. Thief can decap and at least defend home until help arrives. In that case let a tanky class come to hold home and then either +1 or rotate back to mid.

So often people expect thief to decap far. Yet, so often, the team rushes far and leaves no one home or mid. This doesn’t always fail, obviously, but the team doesn’t need you for decap if they are trying to do it themselves.

In WvW a thief can effectively roam or play support to a larger Zerg. Catching enemies and holding them for the group is their number one goal. In roaming a thief should aim to draw more than a few off the Zerg to try and stop them. Then the thief vanishes, but not before disrupting supply lines.

In PvE the thief saves the group when everyone wipes. Stealth is powerful and we can be the difference between a wipe and winning in a fractal, for example. One time my group wiped on Mai Trin. I ressed the entire team with just CnD off the npc’s and Hide in Shadows.

The thief is also, generally, a good class for target calling. We get there before other people so we can get a target set up easily. We can also try to soften up a target so the team can finish them off now that several key defenses are on cooldown.

@Twyn.7320 said:What's the Thief's role in PvE (Fractals/Raids etc.)?DPS and combat reser. With all my dodges, stealth and shadow stepping I'm usually the only one that does not die and end up being the one resing everyone else.

What's the Thief's role in PvP?I'm the +1 at home and mid points and when it's safe I go for a decap at far.

What's the Thief's role in WvW?I put up my yellow tag and go scout possible targets for our enemies.If under attack I alert the squads in the map and hold them off as long as I can by using siege weapons and repairing keep door and walls to buy some time for the squads to arrive.

What's the most overpowered aspect of the Thief?Evasion. Extra dodges + stealth and teleport.

What's the most overpowered build for the Thief?Depends... PvP wvwvw or pve. There is no jack of all trades spec.

What's the most underpowered aspect of the Thief?I would not call it underpowered but the most annoying aspect imo is the dependence on trickery trait line. Without it the thief is unplayable... (imo)It is possible to play without it but you become wheeler in every aspect of the profession.