Anything wrong with double staff mesmer build?

Hey all,

Just wondering if anyone has tried running a double staff build before? I really only play open world PVE and low level dungeons/fractals but I'm finding the damage has been better than the axe by a longshot (after recent changes). Every other Mesmer I have asked about it has said the staff is awful and I shouldn't be using it... and I see their point as i'm currently only using abilities 2 and 5 on the weapon bar and ignoring the rest, staff as a whole could do with a major rework.

But with IH, spamming dodge and energy rune weapon swapping I'm finding it works better than the melee axe build I was running (stacking bleeds and burn + perma might & fury).

Is there something i'm missing here? Another reason why staff is terrible that i'm missing, any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Its good in open world for the reasons you said, high might upkeep, perma furry, decent bleed and burn stacking as well as being aoe and lets you kite if need be. This is all down to the ambush though (and skill 2 for clones) with every other skill being pointless. At the very least they should finally buff the auto attack that never got touched when they reworked condis.

Clone and Phantasm Condi Mirage builds using axes will far out-damage staff by a long shot. That is not to say that staff is "terrible" outside of high-end PVE content (i.e. T4 Fractals and Raids).

There is no reason you can't do this. Staff is a perfectly capable weapon for open world. The damage is not great, but it's certainly adequate. It's also quite survivable with all that range, phase retreat, and chaos storm. However, I can't recommend a pure staff build for open world. Even if the damage were superior, how much are you really going to enjoy a kit that has 2 more or less worthless skills plus a useful skill with a long cooldown? It's basically nothing but spambush and auto attack! That's nearly as bad as a phantasm build!

Open world is a playground! If pure staff is what you love, then go for it. Personally, I use staff in my build, but axe is my primary weapon. Here's a video of how I do in open world. I don't have a lot of post-patch videos made just yet, but here's one I made the other day: Mirage vs. Zintl Inquisitor (Post- axe ambush bugfix):

And the build, in case anyone is curious:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnELDNohFMDWoBMMjlZjyMEWhWyf+7//vMAqtcD-jxxHQBZUJIAOFAzT9nBq8jWPBgxpPAI7PQIgFrBA-e

Clone and Phantasm Condi Mirage builds using axes will far out-damage staff by a long shot. That is not to say that staff is "terrible" outside of high-end PVE content (i.e. T4 Fractals and Raids).

I'll confess I hate using Phantasms i find most builds with them are boring as hell, hence I was so keen for the mirage when it dropped. Although i clearly must be doing something wrong with my melee axe build then without any buffs i'm around 7000 on training dummy with my axes but I'm hitting about 10,000 with my staffs. Could you share a link to yours or a similar build? or a video. Would love to see how other people are playing it.

Its good in open world for the reasons you said, high might upkeep, perma furry, decent bleed and burn stacking as well as being aoe and lets you kite if need be. This is all down to the ambush though (and skill 2 for clones) with every other skill being pointless. At the very least they should finally buff the auto attack that never got touched when they reworked condis.

Good to know its not too bad, although yeah I would love for them to fix the AA and skills 3 and 4, they are both just awful. Sadly I don't think the Dev's check out these forums all that much so I don't think we will be seeing changes anytime soon.

@funbuket.1378 said:Hey all,

Just wondering if anyone has tried running a double staff build before? I really only play open world PVE and low level dungeons/fractals but I'm finding the damage has been better than the axe by a longshot (after recent changes). Every other Mesmer I have asked about it has said the staff is awful and I shouldn't be using it... and I see their point as i'm currently only using abilities 2 and 5 on the weapon bar and ignoring the rest, staff as a whole could do with a major rework.

But with IH, spamming dodge and energy rune weapon swapping I'm finding it works better than the melee axe build I was running (stacking bleeds and burn + perma might & fury).

Is there something i'm missing here? Another reason why staff is terrible that i'm missing, any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Anything wrong with it? No, play what you enjoy. But you are choosing to miss out on 5 weapon skills by doing this. And since you're going mirage + IH, that means you also shouldn't be using Staff3, and Staff4 is pointless in PvE (and largely in PvP with its CD), so you're effectively left with 3 out of 10 weapon skills. I struggle to see how that's fun, but if you enjoy it there is nothing wrong with that.

im super casual, and don't do the whole neck-beard min/max thing...

but I personally feel staff is pretty awesome for condi mirage builds; specifically if you take IH. 3 clones spamming the ambush easily stacks like 25 vuln, 25 bleed, and maybe 7 fire.... and that's without any real condition duration from gear... Plus, it actually is a fairly big projectile and hits multiple targets...

So, while it may not be a 'meta', IMO its efficient Enough to be considered viable... but outside of IH trait, kinda lackluster, and only used for phase retreat an the occasional ethereal field.

There's no reason whatsoever to use double staff. If you love staff so much, just don't weapon swap to your other set. Have utility weapons on your other set (like sword for the leap ambush, focus for cc, or torch for stealth) that you can access whenever you need.

Yeah - the only benefit of double staff is energy sigil on swap (or other swap sigils). Otherwise it's a total waste to slot double anything - you're better off running Axe/x or something else in the other set for more options.

Also if you come across enemies in pve that reflect attacks then you're kind of neutered using staff - helps to have a melee set to swap to.

Open world: run what ever you like, though double staff is kinda pointless. No sigil is worth losing the flexibility of a different weapon set. Just don't weapon swap.

That said, staff in general is pretty bad as far as pve is concerned. It works, but other weapons sets will work better. Still as mentioned, if you enjoy it, just play it.

Also if you come across enemies in pve that reflect attacks then you're kind of neutered using staff - helps to have a melee set to swap to.

Hey thanks for this, actually haven't really come accross many like this (or if I have, i clearly havent been paying attention) and its a good point which I hadn't thought about.

That said, staff in general is pretty bad as far as pve is concerned. It works, but other weapons sets will work better. Still as mentioned, if you enjoy it, just play it.

Actually given the option I would rather another weapon for variety but my previous build with axe, torch and staff is terrible compared to the damage i can pull with two staffs and weapon swaps.

Maybe i'm playing the mesmer super wrong? Just seems like more consistent damage with just bleed and burns as opposed to bleed, burn, confusion, torment. Although really wish they had changed the staff to just to Confusion and Torment rather than bleed and burn (soooo much more mesmery)

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:There's no reason whatsoever to use double staff. If you love staff so much, just don't weapon swap to your other set. Have utility weapons on your other set (like sword for the leap ambush, focus for cc, or torch for stealth) that you can access whenever you need.

Yeah but he can’t get the benefit of on swap runes if he camps staff. At least that’s the only reason I can think for anyone ever running double any weapon.

@apharma.3741 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:There's no reason whatsoever to use double staff. If you love staff so much, just don't weapon swap to your other set. Have utility weapons on your other set (like sword for the leap ambush, focus for cc, or torch for stealth) that you can access whenever you need.

Shrug

One dodge every 10 seconds isn't exactly a lot of bang for your buck when you're giving up a weapon set for it.

@funbuket.1378 said:

Clone and Phantasm Condi Mirage builds using axes will far out-damage staff by a long shot. That is not to say that staff is "terrible" outside of high-end PVE content (i.e. T4 Fractals and Raids).

Its good in open world for the reasons you said, high might upkeep, perma furry, decent bleed and burn stacking as well as being aoe and lets you kite if need be. This is all down to the ambush though (and skill 2 for clones) with every other skill being pointless. At the very least they should finally buff the auto attack that never got touched when they reworked condis.

Here's the Phantasm build I use, nothing special about it. The strength comes from having three Duelists up at all times to ramp up bleeds and Phantasmal Force.

Reviving this as I love the fx of staff.

What gear were you running this with? Vipers? Dire/trailblazers?

@"Opopanax.1803" said:Reviving this as I love the fx of staff.

What gear were you running this with? Vipers? Dire/trailblazers?

Hey, cool! This thread has one of my videos from back in December! And I'm still using axe/torch with staff. Staff is a really great defensive weapon that deals respectable damage for being so effortlessly survivable. I still rely as heavily on axe as I can because the damage is better, but staff has still been a critical component of my build from the start.

Here's something more recent against a boss that pressures me to swap weapons frequently:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnsnBNohFMDupBMMjlZjyv+7//vMAutkxcEWhPA-jxxHQB7Y/hxpPAAnCAa9EAyoSw5p+zAV+RGgq1A-e

Also, I tried Dire out. My testing indicates damage output at about 50-66% of viper in mixed open world play. Trailblazer should produce better damage with similar survivability. But if you're using staff/staff, I think I would recommend full viper. It's so survivable you shouldn't have too much trouble staying alive, and you will appreciate the extra damage since staff really isn't a straight DPS weapon. Good luck!

Hey, thanks for the follow up! I'm looking at carrion for a bit more margin for HP. I will mix it with vipers at your suggestion until I feel I can switch over fully to vipers.

@Opopanax.1803 said:Hey, thanks for the follow up! I'm looking at carrion for a bit more margin for HP. I will mix it with vipers at your suggestion until I feel I can switch over fully to vipers.

Sure! Sounds like a plan. It's hard to get comfortable with a new spec you're trying to learn when you're dead all the time!