RAID support

After the big patch...

Are still the chronomance and druid the only fucking meta or optimum why to play as support in raid and T4? Or more class are welcome?

Just think about what chrono and druid provide to the squad/party and see how well they can be replaced. You'll quickly figure out they are basically irreplaceable in optimal setups.

Pretty much like he said, Chrono and Druid are overpowered and the only professions close to both are Renegade (miss quickness to compete with Chrono) and Firebrand (cannot stack might for 10 people, only 5).

Ok understood... its definitely a caca ? game.. Maybe is time to uninstall and spend my time and money in another game..

I have been waiting ages for a good balance of ALL classes and see they words make true "you can play all the roles with every single class, not just one build" they said that before the launch and after 5 years nothing..

Gw1 was an amazing game! 10/10 however gw2 is a bad experiment

Anyways have fun guys ;) see you in another game ;).

Yes because all classes were able to play Support in GW1... oh wait it was Necromancer (with variety of sub-classes) and Ritualist.Amazing game indeed.

@maddoctor.2738 said:Yes because all classes were able to play Support in GW1... oh wait it was Necromancer (with variety of sub-classes) and Ritualist.Amazing game indeed.

Maybe these were more fun and had amazing gameplay unlike Chrono and Druid in this game?

@Amineo.8951 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Yes because all classes were able to play Support in GW1... oh wait it was Necromancer (with variety of sub-classes) and Ritualist.Amazing game indeed.

Nah the (support) Ritualist had zero gameplay, spam your spirits on cooldown and /dance. The N/X support builds were so boring the AI could play them easily, no rotation to follow, no situational awareness, no movement, no nothing. The best and most fun/engaging support in GW1 was the Monk, but was rarely used in PVE in the end, but was super fun in PVP for the entire time of GW1. And Elementalist/Monk for those 4-man hard mode instances was also really tricky. But those were niche and rare in general PVE, overshadowed by their Necromancer overlords in every way.

@maddoctor.2738 said:Yes because all classes were able to play Support in GW1... oh wait it was Necromancer (with variety of sub-classes) and Ritualist.Amazing game indeed.

I didn't say that.. I said some words they said about GW2 before the launch. In Gw1 you cannot play as support with all the classes but you can create at least more than one build to use, here is almost only 1 for class. because the optimatization of the games is bad very bad!

@lagrimabendita.8763 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Yes because all classes were able to play Support in GW1... oh wait it was Necromancer (with variety of sub-classes) and Ritualist.Amazing game indeed.

You can fill a lot of the roles with any profession. They aren't meta in top PVE content, but they still exist.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Yes because all classes were able to play Support in GW1... oh wait it was Necromancer (with variety of sub-classes) and Ritualist.Amazing game indeed.

To be fair gw1 was mostly designed around the pvp and most of the balancing focus was on that rather than the pve. After all, when you had a team of 8 rangers clearing the hardest pve content you know there is something wrong.

When it comes to balancing it's clear that Anet are a lot more comfortable with pvp than pve. Back when I played gw1 every class had a time to shine at some point or another, whether it was in a spike comp or pressure comp.

@"Wandering Mist.2973" said:After all, when you had a team of 8 rangers clearing the hardest pve content you know there is something wrong.

Enjoy:

It's not Rangers but Guardians. Should be much easier now with Firebrand

@"lagrimabendita.8763" said:Ok understood... its definitely a caca ? game.. Maybe is time to uninstall and spend my time and money in another game..

I have been waiting ages for a good balance of ALL classes and see they words make true "you can play all the roles with every single class, not just one build" they said that before the launch and after 5 years nothing..

Gw1 was an amazing game! 10/10 however gw2 is a bad experiment

Anyways have fun guys ;) see you in another game ;).

Can I have your stuff?

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Amineo.8951 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Yes because all classes were able to play Support in GW1... oh wait it was Necromancer (with variety of sub-classes) and Ritualist.Amazing game indeed.

Well, in fact in gw1Monk were strong support even if overshadowed in meta comp. Monk could also tank better than most other professions.Ranger could be used as spirit bot which packed quite some support. (don't tell me you played gw1 and never used a ranger spirit)Spirit ritualist were good supportNecromancers had so much support tht it put gw2's necromancer to shame. Coupled with a profession more oriented toward heal it's mana regen made him a cheat.Elementalist had strong support as well, mist form even evolved from it's original invulnerability to a strong group heal tool.Paragons... maybe not a primary support spec but it dished out so much support that it made your party very sturdy. (hell, I breezed throught gw campaigns with my paragon)

That was quite a number of good support in the game, much more than what you remember I think. However, gw1 wasn't advertised as a gave where you could play your profession in any given role, thought in some way, it was closest to this goal than gw2 is at the moment.

It's not like there isn't any other viable support builds. Lots of raiding people (especially pugs) just want the "optimal" meta setup in every raid squad (and rather get a bad metasupport than a good off-metasupport) 'cause they've spent hours learning how to DPS but didn't spend enough time actually learning how to clear the mechanics reliably and thus "metacomp kills stuff faster which means less mechanics to survive thru and if we don't kill the boss with more than 3 mins left on the timer, we'll most likely wipe to them".

@Dadnir.5038 said:That was quite a number of good support in the game, much more than what you remember I think.

There is loads of good support and tank options in GW2 as well. In fact you don't have to use a single Chronomancer, Warrior or Druid to kill most Raid bosses. They've been cleared with anything between 2 and 9 people, which means in 10-player compositions you don't really need any Chrono or Druid.GW2 was advertised for all profession to fill all roles, to some extent that is true. They aren't the meta options for all roles, but most roles can be filled with most professions.

@"LadyKitty.6120" said:It's not like there isn't any other viable support builds. Lots of raiding people (especially pugs) just want the "optimal" meta setup in every raid squad (and rather get a bad metasupport than a good off-metasupport) 'cause they've spent hours learning how to DPS but didn't spend enough time actually learning how to clear the mechanics reliably and thus "metacomp kills stuff faster which means less mechanics to survive thru and if we don't kill the boss with more than 3 mins left on the timer, we'll most likely wipe to them".

Last time I made a post on Reddit about Minstrel Firebrand and how Chrono wasn't the only class able to tank and I got downvoted massively by all in the sub. I'm sure that if QT or SC make a post about all the other support specs in raids, they'll get praised.

@Amineo.8951 said:

@"LadyKitty.6120" said:It's not like there isn't any other viable support builds. Lots of raiding people (especially pugs) just want the "optimal" meta setup in every raid squad (and rather get a bad metasupport than a good off-metasupport) 'cause they've spent hours learning how to DPS but didn't spend enough time actually learning how to clear the mechanics reliably and thus "metacomp kills stuff faster which means less mechanics to survive thru and if we don't kill the boss with more than 3 mins left on the timer, we'll most likely wipe to them".

And here'in lies the biggest problem. We all know that the raids in this game are easy, especially if you have any raiding experience in other games, and yet the majority of the community is only interested in the tiny amount of meta picks available. And like you say, until the top raiding guilds start running off-meta comps, nothing will really change. The sheep will always follow the shepherd.

It will depend. If the dps of a quickness firebrand is enough to cover the alacrity dos boost on 5 ppl. And also if the cc classes will beed to bring to replace chrono is worth the dps loss from just having 1 chrono bring that cc.

@zealex.9410 said:It will depend. If the dps of a quickness firebrand is enough to cover the alacrity dos boost on 5 ppl. And also if the cc classes will beed to bring to replace chrono is worth the dps loss from just having 1 chrono bring that cc.

No, there is no way a quickness firebrand will ever be able to cover the alacrity loss. Want to know why? Because some of those rotations of other classes are dependent on alacrity.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:It will depend. If the dps of a quickness firebrand is enough to cover the alacrity dos boost on 5 ppl. And also if the cc classes will beed to bring to replace chrono is worth the dps loss from just having 1 chrono bring that cc.

Im sure there can be optimal rotations without alacrity. Its all matter of testing.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:It will depend. If the dps of a quickness firebrand is enough to cover the alacrity dos boost on 5 ppl. And also if the cc classes will beed to bring to replace chrono is worth the dps loss from just having 1 chrono bring that cc.

For some classes yes, but the dps loss on less optimal rotations is huge. We are talking 33% less skills huge with a lot more clunkiness. For some it will just not work at all because some timings will simply not add up. Especially classes with ongoing rotations without many auto attacks are losing a lot of potential.

There is a reason why alacrity was nerfed from 66% down to 33% at the begining of HoT and why double chrono has been meta for ages (with quickness having been available from other sources for a while now). Alacrity is that powerful.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:It will depend. If the dps of a quickness firebrand is enough to cover the alacrity dos boost on 5 ppl. And also if the cc classes will beed to bring to replace chrono is worth the dps loss from just having 1 chrono bring that cc.

Im just making the arguement that IF alacrity doesnt translate in 15k~ on a 5 man sub squad then there might be a chance for that subsquad to use fb. And pls.. we still need 2 quick ess stackers. 1 Sub group could very easily be a group of classes that really alot on autos in which case they wouldnt lose as much from the lack or alac.

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:It will depend. If the dps of a quickness firebrand is enough to cover the alacrity dos boost on 5 ppl. And also if the cc classes will beed to bring to replace chrono is worth the dps loss from just having 1 chrono bring that cc.

Alacrity translates to 5-7k per dps class easily (imagine current dps numbers, now take 33% of those, now reduce that number by half just to be safe) not to mention support classes and boon uptime or healing. But sure, maybe it won't be required. LOL.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@zealex.9410 said:It will depend. If the dps of a quickness firebrand is enough to cover the alacrity dos boost on 5 ppl. And also if the cc classes will beed to bring to replace chrono is worth the dps loss from just having 1 chrono bring that cc.

When we have proper math done we can talk. Sloppy talk with sloppy calculations is just wasted effort and energy.