How bundles work

Before I begin, I must say that I've never bought a single "bundle" from the gem store so far. When a company sells a "bundle" of something, in most cases, they also offer individual items directly, or did in the past. Then, the bundle is supposed to take multiple items and offer them altogether with a discount.

As perfectly explained on wikipedia:

In a bundle pricing, companies sell a package or set of goods or services for a lower price than they would charge if the customer bought all of them separately. Pursuing a bundle pricing strategy allows you to increase your profit by giving customers a discount.

But in Guild Wars 2 that's not how bundles work. If I get the Halloween mount bundle I don't save anything because there is no option to buy the mounts separately and give me the illusion that I actually save money. This is something that has been bugging me since Arenanet introduced their "bundles" on the gem store, as they do not work like how most bundles work. By not making the individual items of a bundle purchasable alone, you eliminate the main reason for having bundles in the first place and it all looks like a way to artificially increase the price of items.

Re-think your "bundles" please.

Sometimes, items in bundles are offered separately, either before the bundle appeared, or after the bundle. Mount skins haven't been around too long, so they may (or may not) eventually appear individually. You can think of certain 'bundles' as 'sets', instead.

Good luck.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Sometimes, items in bundles are offered separately, either before the bundle appeared, or after the bundle. Mount skins haven't been around too long, so they may (or may not) eventually appear individually. You can think of certain 'bundles' as 'sets', instead.

Good luck.

Halloween Griffon mount next Halloween will be 2000 Gems and...Gets shot for old meme

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Before I begin, I must say that I've never bought a single "bundle" from the gem store so far. When a company sells a "bundle" of something, in most cases, they also offer individual items directly, or did in the past. Then, the bundle is supposed to take multiple items and offer them altogether with a discount.

As perfectly explained on wikipedia:

In a bundle pricing, companies sell a package or set of goods or services for a lower price than they would charge if the customer bought all of them separately. Pursuing a bundle pricing strategy allows you to increase your profit by giving customers a discount.

A bundle doesn't have to be bundle pricing. A bundle is just a collection of things grouped together. Could they have called them a "pack" instead of a bundle? Sure. But it wouldn't change anything.

Overall this just seems like a really weird thing to complain about.

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:Before I begin, I must say that I've never bought a single "bundle" from the gem store so far. When a company sells a "bundle" of something, in most cases, they also offer individual items directly, or did in the past. Then, the bundle is supposed to take multiple items and offer them altogether with a discount.

As perfectly explained on wikipedia:

In a bundle pricing, companies sell a package or set of goods or services for a lower price than they would charge if the customer bought all of them separately. Pursuing a bundle pricing strategy allows you to increase your profit by giving customers a discount.

I would simply throw out there the complaining might be that some of the things they want in the bundle they can't get out of the bundle.Back to the same mount one if they just wanted the Wintersday Skimmer, they had to get the other 4 too.

@"Mewcifer.5198" said:Overall this just seems like a really weird thing to complain about.

Why is it weird? How I see the term "bundle" everywhere outside the Guild Wars 2 gem store is as I explained in my post, a package of multiple items at a discount.All I'm asking is to add the items inside the bundles as separate items to be bought alone, and then offer the bundle of all items with a discount. This is what makes bundles worth buying, otherwise they are just ways to inflate the price of individual items by adding other useless items with them.

Careful... they might 'fix' this situation by making the individual items more expensive.

I think OP is under the presumption that the unbundled skins would be priced equally and comparatively to their average price.

No doubt, it would behoove them to offer the more desirable skins at a premium, perhaps even a substantial one (as can be seen from single mount skins offerings) vs the average price of the bundled ones.

Which, as one might imagine, would instigate all kinds of angst... so, it perhaps it was best to just average price them and bundle them up like they did.

I daresay the marketing department has an inkling of what they're doing and understand how they've opted to offer their products.

@"maddoctor.2738" said:By not making the individual items of a bundle purchasable alone, you eliminate the main reason for having bundles in the first place and it all looks like a way to artificially increase the price of items.

This.

Re-think your "bundles" please.

...and this.

Please.

@"Mewcifer.5198" said:

Overall this just seems like a really weird thing to complain about.

Complaints about how companies market goods or services are never weird. They are consumers exercising one of two means they have to influence the prices of things they might like to buy. In the OP, the TS is doing both. Some ANet bundles are designed to get customers to spend more than they would based on "what the market will bear" for desirable impulse buy bait. Similar tactics in the GW2 store include: random item containers; "sales" where an item is introduced as having a full price well beyond what the market would bear, then "reducing" the price via the "sale" to where the price is merely "somewhat above" what the market would bear; and artificial scarcity.

ANet is far from the only company which tries to use its sales tactics to manipulate people into spending more than they might ordinarily be willing to pay. It is the company whose game this forum is about. If a post like the OP educates other players to the manipulation, there's a chance the impact might be sufficient to influence sales tactics. That could benefit all consumers interested in this game.

@Klipso.8653 said:Careful... they might 'fix' this situation by making the individual items more expensive.

I'd be OK with that. If prices go up beyond what people are willing to pay without being manipulated, then the consumer's other recourse, refusing to buy, can come into play.

To clarify, I am not saying its weird to complain about not being able to buy the individual skins, just that its weird to complain specifically about the terminology used for the mount packs.

@Mewcifer.5198 said:To clarify, I am not saying its weird to complain about not being able to buy the individual skins, just that its weird to complain specifically about the terminology used for the mount packs.

Ah, I see. I took the issue to be bundling in general, rather than the use of the term for a specific bunch of items. For instance, the Bandit Sniper Appearance Pack is also a bundle.

Ok let's stay with the halloweenbundle, because in my opinion this is the best example ever. I got it and even though i don't really use it anymore i'm glad i bought it because I paid less for all 5 than the skimmer alone costs atm (2k gems and painted the right way i cant tell the difference). But I got lucky with the lantern so on my main I use that anyways.

Well, except for mounts, all bundles in GW2 gemstore are just that, discounted bundles of items.But Mounts are the exception, in everything on the gemstore mounts are always the negative, toxic exception:

They're the only thing you HAVE to RNG to obtain.Sure there are RNG dyes and Black Lion chest stuff, but that RNG is mitigated by the option of buying them directly from other people. Does that make it more expensive? Maybe, or maybe not, it all depends on the RNG.

They're the only bundles that you can't obtain separately. (Just realized there's another, the unbound gathering tools, which are an exception within gathering tools, all mount bundles so far have been like this)

They're the only individual skins to go over 1000 gems

So pretty much mounts, if they're cheap they're RNG, if they're reasonably priced you're forced to pay more for a bundle. If you want to choose you pay an extravagant amount of gems. So your choices are: not to choose what you get or get ripped off.

So i understand the OP's question. But the problem isn't GW2 bundles, it's mounts.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Well, except for mounts, all bundles in GW2 gemstore are just that, discounted bundles of items.But Mounts are the exception, in everything on the gemstore mounts are always the negative, toxic exception:

So, I can (could?) buy the Bandit Sniper Outfit as a standalone? Not that I can recall, and not according to the wiki. There is no discount if you have to pay 2k gems for an outfit (standalone price for most have been 700) when you do not care about or want the other stuff in the pack.

There have also been other items only available in packs besides the unbound magic tools -- backpack plus glider, for instance.

Mounts are, of course, the most visible example, but the practice is not limited to mounts.

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:Well, except for mounts, all bundles in GW2 gemstore are just that, discounted bundles of items.But Mounts are the exception, in everything on the gemstore mounts are always the negative, toxic exception:

I believe you could get the sniper outfit standalone, not sure, but if you couldn't its more the exception that confirms the rule than anything. All other similar bundles have the glider and the back separated, and you get a massive discount.Honestly the glider and back bundles, aren't a real bundle, the back is a bonus to the glider, not a standalone, or vice-versa for feathered wings. They are marginally more expensive, true, but is essentially the same skin in two configurations. Not the same as entirely different mounts, or outfit+gliders.There's few and far between examples of "item packs" instead of bundles outside of mounts. And even in the cases you mentioned, those items ARE heavily discounted.The sniper pack was 2000 gems with an outfit+glider+total makeover+ weapon skin choice+ dye kits (the total cost without discounts is like 2.9k gems)The back+wings is pretty much the same, it costs 700 gems, usually individual gliders go for 400-500 gems, a individual back goes for 300-400 gems, so 700-900 total cost.

I think the OP is imparting too much meaning into the word, "bundle." The primary purpose of a bundle is to get people to spend more in total than they would if the items sold individually. That means there will be incentives, but that's not limited to discounting the price. For example, clubs & organizations offer sign-up bonuses, such as a free blanket with a normal membership and a blanket plus a radio for a "supporting" membership.

Most of Evon Gnashblade's bundles include a price discount compared to buying items individually. Some include a bonus item. Some bundles are the only way to obtain certain items. And all of that is consistent with the word, "bundle."

The OP is also wrong about GW2 "bundles" not offering a discount over individual pricing...this can easily be determined by taking like items and comparing them apples for apples, vs comparing apples to oranges. If you don't want to believe me fine, you can do the math yourself by finding two similar items and comparing the price for the individual items vs the bundled item.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:I think the OP is imparting too much meaning into the word, "bundle." The primary purpose of a bundle is to get people to spend more in total than they would if the items sold individually. That means there will be incentives, but that's not limited to discounting the price. For example, clubs & organizations offer sign-up bonuses, such as a free blanket with a normal membership and a blanket plus a radio for a "supporting" membership.

Most of Evon Gnashblade's bundles include a price discount compared to buying items individually. Some include a bonus item. Some bundles are the only way to obtain certain items. And all of that is consistent with the word, "bundle."

Bold for emphasis. If, and that's my own belief of course, they sold the items of a bundle individually AND inside the bundles at a discount, then those bundles would sell more than they do now. For example, I would buy at least one bundle, but as it is now I view them as greedy cash grabs where they add items that I want in groups with items I don't care about and force me to buy them. I don't like being treated like that, regardless of how much I like the items, and specifically I'm talking about the Bandit Sniper Appearance pack. I want the outfit and maybe the shadow dyes, but not anything else inside the package.

Btw, the price of the individual items in the Bandit Appearance pack (According to wiki):Outfit: 700 gemsGlider: 500 gemsMakeover Kit: 350 gemsShadow dye (x5): 500 gemsTotal: 2050 gems + an immortal weapon skin

So you really "save" 50 gems with the bundle and you get an extra immortal weapon skin as a bonus... That's not a worthwhile discount.Now that I think about maybe that's why they don't offer the items individually AND in a bundle, because there is no discount in the bundle.

The point of bundles is to get people to spend more gems. There's always an incentive, but the incentive isn't always a substantial discount. There's nothing remotely 'new' about the practice, not even in GW2. I don't mean people have to like it, just that it's a very, very common pricing technique.

@"maddoctor.2738" said:So you really "save" 50 gems with the bundle and you get an extra immortal weapon skin as a bonus... That's not a worthwhile discount.

For some people, the entire point of the bundle is the immortal weapon. The fact that they get 2100 gems worth of other stuff is a bonus. "Worthwhile discount" is in the eyes of purchaser.

Here's an even more insidious sort of 'bundle': a fountain beverage (aka a soda or soft drink) costs something like US$1.50 for a 'regular' of 16 oz and maybe $2.00 for 32 oz. That is, for a 'mere' extra 50 centers, you get twice as much. Is that a great deal or what? Well, not really, because it costs the company about a penny extra for the larger cup and another couple of pennies for the extra liquid, so they earn at least 40 extra cents on the deal. Heck, the regular is already a big earner for them because they spend maybe a dime or two and you pay 8-20 times more. It might be a "worthwhile discount" but that doesn't mean the purchase is a good deal in the first place.

Pricing is always about convincing people to spend as much as they might possibly be willing. It's not about offering good deals outside that context.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The point of bundles is to get people to spend more gems. There's always an incentive, but the incentive isn't always a substantial discount. There's nothing remotely 'new' about the practice, not even in GW2. I don't mean people have to like it, just that it's a very, very common pricing technique.

@"maddoctor.2738" said:So you really "save" 50 gems with the bundle and you get an extra immortal weapon skin as a bonus... That's not a worthwhile discount.

If I go to the supermarket, Coca-cola and Pepsi-Cola products are $6.99 per 12 pack. Deals usually involve things like, "Buy 2, get 1 free," "Buy 2, get 2 free,' Or even (rarely), "Buy 2, get 3 free." Those are bundles. They have a discount, sometimes a substantial one. Maybe this is done because they want to move more product as it gets closer to its use-by date. Maybe it's done because the bottler wants to get more market share. However, the customer -- and presumably the company -- wins.

Whether you choose to buy a regular or large soda at McDonald's is not a bundle. McDonald's has bundles, in the form of combos. Buy the combo and generally the soda is "free." They even have reasons for doing so, as research has told them their sandwiches are a better experience for the customer if s/he also has fries and a drink. Both McDonald's and the customer win.

It's harder to see how all customers win in GW2 bundles like the Bandit Sniper Pack. There's no option to just buy the burger, or just buy one 12 pack.

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The point of bundles is to get people to spend more gems. There's always an incentive, but the incentive isn't always a substantial discount. There's nothing remotely 'new' about the practice, not even in GW2. I don't mean people have to like it, just that it's a very, very common pricing technique.

@"maddoctor.2738" said:So you really "save" 50 gems with the bundle and you get an extra immortal weapon skin as a bonus... That's not a worthwhile discount.

Now we're back to quibbling about the word choice again. Not every "bundle" offers a substantial discount. The point of pricing any package or deal or bundle or whatever the seller chooses to call it... the point is to get people to spend more. Sometimes that involves offering a discount, sometimes it involves offering bonus items, sometimes it involves offering something that cannot be obtained otherwise.

But it entirely misses the mark to worry about whether any of us think it's a "good deal." If it gets people to spend, it's successful and that's all that has ever mattered to any business.

Sort of a long aside, but I was watching a 1950s game show and one of the sponsors was a since-defunct brand of antiperspirant. Week after week, the sponsor offered this 'bundle' (which they referred to as a "giveaway"):

Get your free trial bottle now(when you purchase one of the regularly-sized bottles)

In effect, it was really a "get 20% more for the same price" marketed as if there was a freebie included. There's no value to a "trial version" if you have to pay for the standard size in the first place. (And now, they weren't recommending that you give a friend the free trial; the adverts specifically said that the trial was for you.)(And, near as I could tell, during this period, you couldn't actually buy the "standard size" bottle without getting the freebie, i.e. there was no way to buy either separately.)

The point remains the same: the goal was to get more people to spend who wouldn't have otherwise been interested. There is no such thing as pricing without some form of manipulation, no sort of marketing or advertising that is free from using psychology to change people's behavior.

There's a spectrum of options from legal to illegal, from misdirection to misleading, and so on. But there isn't any sort of pricing (especially for digital items) that is manipulation free.

Of course, that doesn't mean that anyone here has to like how ANet has chosen to go about their pricing. We each have our limits on what we find acceptable.